Split or FBW

After reading a bit more and looking at my less than desirable results I have a question.

Currently I'm going an FBW 3x a week, I switch my routine every week or so to hit as many muscle groups as I can. I try to base each workout on a certain muscle group for the week with a few compounds being the core of each routine they are
Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press. I vary 3 other compound moves and 1 or 2iso's per workout.

Before I was doing an FBW 3x a week but all 3 routines were different, hitting different muscle groups.

My question is:

Would it be more efficient to do a split? I'm thinking push/pull
or keep switching it up every week or do what I was doing before and outline 3 totally different FBW's per week? Or am I just being impatient. LOL
I know it really depends on the individual person but I'm looking for efficiency here.

Any input is appreciated. thanks

edit = I'm currently cutting.
 
I think FBWs are best for cutting. Then again, I never actually tried a split when I cut because I thought the FBW worked just fine.

I pretty much did the same thing and swithced off between two simple workouts and i tihnk my cut went pretty quick (more than 1 lb. a week). One day was squat, bench, and bent over row. Another day was deadlift, military, and pullups. 3x a week, switch workouts each lifting day.

What exactly are your less than desirable results numerically thus far, if you don't mind me asking?
 
I think FBWs are best for cutting. Then again, I never actually tried a split when I cut because I thought the FBW worked just fine.

I pretty much did the same thing and swithced off between two simple workouts and i tihnk my cut went pretty quick (more than 1 lb. a week). One day was squat, bench, and bent over row. Another day was deadlift, military, and pullups. 3x a week, switch workouts each lifting day.

What exactly are your less than desirable results numerically thus far, if you don't mind me asking?

don't mind at all. Having a tough time losing the last couple of points of body fat. I've been at 12% BF for about 4 months now.
 
don't mind at all. Having a tough time losing the last couple of points of body fat. I've been at 12% BF for about 4 months now.

hmm, maybe it's not a workout problem, have you tried dropping diet a hundred cals or so each day?

You could also try Waterbury's 10x3 for fat loss. I know the 10x3 for bulking worked pretty well for me, strength wise anyway. However, the 10x3 for fatloss is only a 2 lifting day a week program, and honestly that would just make me feel lazy. Though I tihnk it's a feasible option.
 
are you losing any weight? If not, eat less, it's that simple. I don't think it's the workout.. You could always try to add more cardio or something to burn more cals.
 
are you losing any weight? If not, eat less, it's that simple. I don't think it's the workout.. You could always try to add more cardio or something to burn more cals.


I'm still losing a pound a week or so but I just want to know which is a better use of my limited time working out.
 
Couple of things...

Are you getting stronger on your current routine?

If you're losing a pound a week, what's the problem? Progress is still happening.

Have you thought about having one main exercise for the day and then run an EDT style setup?
 
You may well be getting impatient :)

I've liked splits for a long time but different people seem to respond better to different training styles so an FBW may be best for you if it's getting you results.

I like splits because I've found that I can get a higher volume of heavy work on each body part in a week. For instance, if I were to squat hard at the start of a session I wouldn't be at my peak for benching purely because my body would be suffering from the strain a little, but by have a day of lower pushing followed by upper pressing I could be in top condition for both those lifts and get out maximal effort both times.
It's just my experience that with a FBW the best progress is made on the first compound of the routine
 
You may well be getting impatient :)

I've liked splits for a long time but different people seem to respond better to different training styles so an FBW may be best for you if it's getting you results.

I like splits because I've found that I can get a higher volume of heavy work on each body part in a week. For instance, if I were to squat hard at the start of a session I wouldn't be at my peak for benching purely because my body would be suffering from the strain a little, but by have a day of lower pushing followed by upper pressing I could be in top condition for both those lifts and get out maximal effort both times.
It's just my experience that with a FBW the best progress is made on the first compound of the routine

but by using that logic,lf you did a split like chest on its own day,after you did the first exercise say bench,then you wouldnt be in top condition for the others,or if you did a chest/back day you wouldnt be in top condition to work your back.
remenber when doing a fullbody you usually only do one exercise per muscle group,you also follow each exercise with antagonistic muscle groups so ther is plenty of time to recover.
 
but by using that logic,lf you did a split like chest on its own day,after you did the first exercise say bench,then you wouldnt be in top condition for the others,or if you did a chest/back day you wouldnt be in top condition to work your back.
Yes, of course that's true, but you would have already hit the chest with heavy work at maximum power. The rest of the training after that is adding variety and volume.
Also, with your second example, I said upper pressing day, so your back shouldn't get worked much, that would happen on your upper pull day :)
 
TBH i use about 4 or 5 compound exercises for my fullbody,its an A,B,C, type and never have a problem going from say bench to chins etc as long as i am ready to go,here is a good article you might like to read.

Muscle Science
The biology of muscle isn't, in fact, rocket science. At its most basic level is the SAID principle, an acronym for "specific adaptation to imposed demand." "When a muscle contracts against a large amount of resistance, it adapts by getting bigger and stronger," says Caiozzo. Likewise, if it's regularly forced to contract for long periods of time, it becomes more resistant to fatigue. These adaptations occur to reduce stress on the body, which is why you can per-form everyday functions -- like walking up stairs or picking up a light object -- with little effort.



Now let's apply the SAID principle to your workout. When you lift weights, you cause tiny tears in your muscle fibers. This accelerates a process called muscle-protein synthesis, which uses amino acids to repair and reinforce the fibers, making them resistant to future damage. And although this happens at a microscopic level, the effect becomes visible over time -- in the form of bigger arms, broader shoulders, and a thicker chest.



Understanding this process provides you with a logical rationale for how often you should train your muscles. In multiple studies, researchers at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston have reported that muscle-protein synthesis is elevated for up to 48 hours after a resistance-training session. So if you work out on Monday at 7 p.m., your body is in muscle-growth mode until Wednesday at 7 p.m. After 48 hours, though, the biological stimulus for your body to build new muscle returns to normal.



On paper, this supports Cosgrove's first assertion: "Performing total-body workouts three times a week is the most effective way to gain muscle." Unfortunately, that advice directly contradicts what most guys actually do. That's because almost everyone subscribes to a leftover from the Stay Hungry days of weight lifting: what Cosgrove calls "body-part training."



The idea is to divide the body into specific muscle groups, or body parts, and dedicate an entire session to working each individually. For example, you might perform exercises for your chest on Monday, your back on Tuesday, your shoulders on Wednesday, and so on. Even though you're training daily, each muscle group is targeted only once a week. So, in essence, those muscles grow for just 2 days out of every 7. With total-body workouts, though, you work each muscle more often. "When you train a muscle three times a week, it spends more total time growing," says Cosgrove.



Connections
Anatomically speaking, you can't isolate muscle groups in the first place -- which is Cosgrove's other beef with body-part training. Imagine, for a moment, that you could strip the skin away from your muscles. You'd see clearly that they're interconnected, surrounding the body like a unified web. This is because all of your muscles are enclosed in a tough connective tissue called fascia. And since fascia attaches to bone and other muscles, it creates "functional" relationships between seemingly separate muscle groups.



"Even a small movement of your upper arm triggers a complicated network of muscles from your shoulder down to your hip," says Bill Hartman, P.T., C.S.C.S., a physical therapist in Indianapolis. Here's why: The latissimus dorsi (or lat), the largest muscle of the back, attaches to the upper-arm bone, shoulder blade, spine, and thoracolumbar fascia--a strong layer of connective tissue that attaches muscles to the spine and pelvis. The glutes, or rear hip muscles, attach to the pelvis. See the connections?



Don't misunderstand: There's no doubt you can emphasize a muscle group by choosing the appropriate exercise; just don't confuse targeting with isolating. To illustrate this point, Cosgrove uses the example of a popular exercise known as the bent-over row. If you subscribe to body-part training, it's a back exercise, since that's the area of your body it emphasizes. But, because of the interconnection between the muscles and connective tissues of the hips and back, your hamstrings and glutes are contracted for the entire exercise. So you're not only working your back, you're challenging your legs as well. And don't forget the involvement of your forearms and biceps in pulling the bar to your chest. "Separating your workouts by body parts is illogical," says Cosgrove. "You're not actually separating anything."



Also, since body-part training is generally performed intensely on consecutive days, it impedes the recovery process. "The nutrients your body needs to repair muscle damage from the previous day are allocated toward providing energy for your workout instead," says Jeff Volek, Ph.D., R.D., an exercise-and-nutrition researcher at the University of Connecticut. "Your muscles grow best when your body is resting, not working." This isn't an issue with Cosgrove's total-body recommendation, since there's a built-in recovery day after each session.



Go to the next page and learn a new prescription for muscle building...





A New Prescription
Bodybuilders argue that total-body training doesn't allow you to work muscle groups hard enough. For instance, they claim that if a typical chest workout takes 30 minutes or more to complete, you'd have to spend hours in the gym to adequately train your entire body. "That's based on the assumption that a chest workout needs to take 30 minutes," says Cosgrove. He goes on to explain that a typical chest day might consist of three sets of four exercises, for a total of 12 sets every 7 days. But Cosgrove says you could do the same amount of work -- 12 total sets -- in the same time period by performing four sets 3 days a week. "I've found that training works like a prescription," says Cosgrove. "You wouldn't take an entire bottle of Advil on Monday to relieve pain all week; you'd take smaller doses at regular intervals."



A study at the University of Alabama supports this notion. The researchers had one group of men train each muscle group once a week for 3 months; another group performed the same number of total sets weekly but split them equally among three total-body workouts. The result? The men who worked each muscle more frequently gained 9 pounds of muscle -- 5 more than those who trained each muscle only once a week.



But, to save even more time, Cosgrove employs another strategy: alternating sets. When possible, he pairs exercises that work opposite muscle groups and cuts the rest period between sets in half.



It's a concept based on the scientific work of Sir Charles Scott Sherrington, who won the Nobel Prize in 1932 for his contributions in physiology and neuroscience. Sherring-ton's law of reciprocal innervation states that "for every neural activation of a muscle, there is a corresponding inhibition of the opposing muscle." This means when you work your chest muscles, the opposite back muscles are forced to relax, thereby resting.



So, instead of waiting 2 minutes between sets of bench presses, you can perform one set of the bench press, rest for just 1 minute, and then do a bent-over row. After you finish, you'll rest again, then repeat the entire process until you complete all sets of both exercises. "In an average workout, this technique saves at least 8 to 10 minutes," says Cosgrove, "without sacrificing performance."



There's another piece to this puzzle, though. In analyzing thousands of work-out logs, Cosgrove developed a volume-threshold theory. "It seems that growth occurs once a muscle has been exposed to 90 to 120 seconds of total tension," he says.



For example, let's say it takes 5 seconds to complete one repetition. This means one set of eight repetitions would place your muscles under tension for 40 seconds. So, using Cosgrove's theory, you'd need to do only three sets -- for a total of 120 seconds -- to perform enough exercise to stimulate muscle growth. Likewise with four sets of five repetitions or two sets of 12 repetitions.



However, even Cosgrove admits that this is more theory than fact, primarily for one reason: Human studies simply haven't compared a wide variety of set and repetition ranges or even controlled for the duration of muscle tension. So there's simply no data to draw from. At least not until you look elsewhere in the animal kingdom.



Researching Muscle Growth
Some men simply gain muscle faster, easier, and to a greater degree than others, which is why we study rats," says Caiozzo. Compared with humans, rats are a much more homogeneous species, meaning there's little variation from one to another. This allows scientists to more accurately study the enzymes, metabolic pathways, and genes that regulate muscle growth.



Of course, actual lab rats aren't gym rats by nature. So, in 1992, Caiozzo developed a rat-size resistance-training apparatus -- a device that looks like a high-tech leg-curl machine. However, since they couldn't simply ask a group of rats to lift weights, there was another step involved.



The researchers permanently implanted a stainless-steel wire in the gastrocnemius muscle of each rat's hind limb and ran the wire under the skin to the skull, where two small screws had been inserted using a handheld drill. By connecting a wire to the outside of the screws, the scientists were then able to stimulate the muscle manually with an electric current, causing it to contract with maximal force. This allowed them to mimic a human weight-lifting workout.



To test the device, the rats were "encouraged" to perform four sets of 10 repetitions, with each repetition lasting 2 seconds -- a total tension time of 80 seconds. The result: The group didn't increase muscle size in an 8-week period. This meant that either the machine didn't work or the volume of exercise was too low. So the researchers tweaked the workout. When the contractions were increased to 4 seconds in duration, doubling the total tension time, the rats gained a significant amount of muscle mass -- and in just 4 weeks, not 8.



Of course, this doesn't authoritatively validate Cosgrove's volume-threshold theory in humans, but it does provide a biological precedent that supports it. And it just may be that some of his data is simply ahead of its time.



Go to the next page and learn more about repetition ranges...



Repetition Ranges
"Go heavy or go home" is a common saying among bodybuilders. But, while it's crucial that you use a weight that provides a challenging load, the mantra is flawed. That's because muscle fibers can grow in two ways. The first is when the myofibrils -- the parts of the fiber that contain the contracting proteins -- increase in number and density. This type of growth leads to strength gains and can be accomplished by using heavy weights that allow only one to seven repetitions.



The second type of growth, however, occurs when your muscles are forced to contract for longer periods of time. Typically, this means using lighter loads that allow you to complete 12 to 15 repetitions. This increases the number of energy-producing structures within the fiber. So you don't get significantly stronger, but you do get bigger.



Using a repetition range that falls between the two causes a combination of both types of growth, but each to a lesser degree. And that's why Cosgrove uses all three repetition ranges. For instance, he might prescribe five repetitions of each exercise on Monday, 15 on Wednesday, and 10 on Friday. "It not only leads to better growth but also helps keep you from hitting plateaus," he says.



And indeed, in a 2002 study, Arizona State University researchers discovered that men who alternated their repetition ranges in each of three weekly training sessions gained twice as much strength as men who didn't vary their repetitions. To Cosgrove, it's just another case of a logical approach generating a logical result.
 
TBH i use about 4 or 5 compound exercises for my fullbody,its an A,B,C, type and never have a problem going from say bench to chins etc as long as i am ready to go,here is a good article you might like to read.
As I said before, people seem to react differently to training structures. I don't do too well with FBW's but get great results from splits. Others find the opposite is true for them which is why it's important to find out what gets you results

At the moment my training isn't strictly split but I do tend to only have one of the big compounds per session. Like today I have snatches and high pulls as a set which is almost an FBW in itself

p.s. The post was so long I might have to start calling you Chillen :yelrotflmao:
 
Last edited:
I'm probably just impatient. I only have about an hour to train and thats because I have to make time. I can train almost everyday if I want but I do like to spend some time with the kids.

I'm just shooting for maximum efficiency and wanted to see some opinions on that.

I'm getting stronger because I'm moving more weight but it seems like I just can't burn this last bit of fat off. I'm following my diet very well too maintaining a 350-500 cal deficit each day except for one.

thanks all.
 
is that defecit based on your weight now or when you started dieting,if its when you started then you might not be in a defecit.
 
He said he was losing weight, so he is in a deflict.
I think it's just a time issue, you're losing weight, you're getting stronger, that means you are most probably losing fat and keeping muscle.
 
Back
Top