Slow Reps, Fast Reps, or Both ???

that window has pretty much been debunked. And you would have to go back a long time to find posts about that. The main reason I take a PWO is because I get hungry very quickly after a workout, and like to have something to fill me up. And ofcource, theres the placebo effect, it just doesn't feel right for me without it. Probobly because I have been brain washed by science.

And why don't you read any of the studies you have been presented? We have provided you with science on the subject.
 
All you're talking of is less than optimal.. It's not logical, but to each there own. If your 'need' or 'goal' is to grow slow, by all means take your own advice.
 
that window has pretty much been debunked.

Really ?

Kinda makes you wonder why so many gym rats on this forum are so obsessed about taking a PWO shake immediately after ( i.e the window ) a workout ! :)

In any event, in terms of the rate of glycogen replacement post exercise - there is a enhanced replenishment rate of glycogen by consuming nutrients immediately as possible after exercise. That ' window ' has not been debunked as far as I know. It's one of the reasons our hockey players will have snacks waiting in the dressing rooms immediately after games - especially during weekend tournaments where they may be playing 3-6 games over the course of 3 days.

And you would have to go back a long time to find posts about that. The main reason I take a PWO is because I get hungry very quickly after a workout, and like to have something to fill me up.

I'm a bit different...I snack when I get home from the gym.....mainly because I have a snack an hour or so before my workout.

And ofcource, theres the placebo effect, it just doesn't feel right for me without it. Probobly because I have been brain washed by science.

I can't comment. If you think you have been brainwashed by science - so be it.

And why don't you read any of the studies you have been presented? We have provided you with science on the subject.

Some i think I have seen before...I'm trying to track down more detail on others that don't ring a bell
 
All you're talking of is less than optimal.. It's not logical, but to each there own. If your 'need' or 'goal' is to grow slow, by all means take your own advice.

I would say it isn't a matter of wanting to ' grow slow ' - but rather, not being obsessed with the ' need ' to grow as ' fast as possible '.:)
 
I would say it does.

Taking only 1 or 2 seconds to lift a weight up is different ( in terms of it's impact on your body's response ) than taking 6-8+ seconds - just ask Karky !

You are completely wrong and if you re-read the articles it will explain why.
The actual time it takes you to lift it is not important what so ever, and I'm sure Karky will agree with me here. So long as you are putting 100% maximum explosive effort into the concentric stage then you are seeing the benefit. If this is your first rep it might take you 2 seconds, if its your last it might take you 8.
The impact on your body is the same if you are trying to use the exact same explosive movement each time, if you can't do it in the original 2 second time frame then it just means your muscles are tiring out but you are still trying just as hard.
If you re-read the articles and then check their sources from various Universities you will see you are wrong on this issue.

As for you saying that the research had nothing to do with your point, well you said, and I quote
"I'm simply not aware of anything to suggest that for most gym rats the difference between the 2 - moderate/fast pace - will lead to any ' significant ' differences in outcomes."

Again I suggest you actually take the time to re-read my post and the articles, all of which say that not moving the weight as quick as you possibly can, and most often enough, will result in fewer gains, moving it as fast as possible while maintaining form has proven to give a significant increase in strength and muscle mass.

Nice try.
 
Remember-FT fibers fatigue fairly quickly. This is why the dynamic method or explosive lifting is not intended for higher rep ranges. If it's taking you 8 seconds or whatnot for the concetric portion of the lift, then we've outed some fast twitch fibers and some of the slow twitchers are kicking in.
 
You are completely wrong and if you re-read the articles it will explain why.
The actual time it takes you to lift it is not important what so ever, and I'm sure Karky will agree with me here. So long as you are putting 100% maximum explosive effort into the concentric stage then you are seeing the benefit. If this is your first rep it might take you 2 seconds, if its your last it might take you 8.
The impact on your body is the same if you are trying to use the exact same explosive movement each time, if you can't do it in the original 2 second time frame then it just means your muscles are tiring out but you are still trying just as hard.
If you re-read the articles and then check their sources from various Universities you will see you are wrong on this issue.

I did read the article......and I'm not wrong at all.

The fact is, most discussions of tempo I've read couch it in terms of the timing of various aspects of a rep - i.e seconds. Tempo is expressed as seconds - as in 3/0/1, 4/0/2 etc. etc. In any event, if timing of tempo protocols in seconds was irrelevant - then tempo wouldn't be expressed in terms of seconds.

And in that context, the longer it takes to push a weight, the slower a tempo it is associated with - that is all I was pointing out. Start with whatever you care to define as " as fast as you can " - call that fast tempo - pare it back by a half, full second etc, and comparatively speaking - then you can call that a moderate tempo.


As for you saying that the research had nothing to do with your point, well you said, and I quote
"I'm simply not aware of anything to suggest that for most gym rats the difference between the 2 - moderate/fast pace - will lead to any ' significant ' differences in outcomes."

Again I suggest you actually take the time to re-read my post and the articles, all of which say that not moving the weight as quick as you possibly can, and most often enough, will result in fewer gains, moving it as fast as possible while maintaining form has proven to give a significant increase in strength and muscle mass.Nice try.

I read through all your links - and I stand by what I said at the outset. I have no quarrel with fast temp having some benefits, or even teh theory behind it. But none of your links provide any evidence to me ( i.e by way of studies etc. ) that shaving a .5 second or 1 second off a fast pace has any significant on gains for the average gym rat - which is what my point was in the first place.

Your links simply do a nice job of re-hashing all the theory behind muscle fibers etc. etc. - none of which i have any quarrel with. But as to addressing my initial point......again, " the research ( in those links ) had nothing to do with my point "

Nice try.:)
 
Remember-FT fibers fatigue fairly quickly. This is why the dynamic method or explosive lifting is not intended for higher rep ranges. If it's taking you 8 seconds or whatnot for the concetric portion of the lift, then we've outed some fast twitch fibers and some of the slow twitchers are kicking in.

cant be, slows are recruited first and THEN fast..
 
I did read the article......and I'm not wrong at all.

The fact is, most discussions of tempo I've read couch it in terms of the timing of various aspects of a rep - i.e seconds. Tempo is expressed as seconds - as in 3/0/1, 4/0/2 etc. etc. In any event, if timing of tempo protocols in seconds was irrelevant - then tempo wouldn't be expressed in terms of seconds.

And in that context, the longer it takes to push a weight, the slower a tempo it is associated with - that is all I was pointing out. Start with whatever you care to define as " as fast as you can " - call that fast tempo - pare it back by a half, full second etc, and comparatively speaking - then you can call that a moderate tempo.

Well you are wrong if you are trying to suggest that time matters at all when it comes to the proven science that "moving the weight as fast as you can shows greater gains".

I see your point though, you're saying if person A can move the weight at 2 seconds but chooses to move it at 2.5 seconds, is there any research that shows this will get less gains. On that point I'm not quite sure if 0.5 or even 1 second would create a difference.

But back to what I was talking about before and time not mattering, well I'm afraid you are wrong if you say that it does matter purely because people measure the movement in seconds. They do that to set benchmarks for themselves nothing else. The idea behind explosive training is that you move the weight as fast as you can, like I said at the beginning of a set it might take 2 seconds going as fast as you can, and by the end of the set it might take you 4 seconds, but you are still trying to explode and get the weight up as fast as possible.

If we go by your theory, then there is a change in tempo here, however it's not through choice it's just due to the muscle tiring. However, the person is still attempting to lift the weight as fast as possible and putting in as much stimulation to do so. If anything, the person will receive a benefit from this drop in "tempo" as it shows the muscle is tiring and they are causing more and more tears and damage.

And thats why I quoted several articles which describe why tempo is not important because it is all about how fast you intend and are trying to move it.

So I suggest we simply move away from the time issue. The only advice we can scientifically and safely give is "move the weight as fast as you possibly can on the concentric stage without sacrificing form is proven to give large gains". That has been proven in all the articles I have listed above.

As for you asking whether there would be a different in 0.5 or 1 seconds decrease in tempo, well, the only thing I can suggest is that the articles never bothered to measure a difference that small, and no one probably has.
My best guess is since they have proved that moving the weights faster is better than slower, that logically we can come to the conclusion that a "fast tempo" is better than a "moderate tempo", but they haven't been able to prove this as a 1/2 a second time difference would be quite hard to measure against gains.

Sure, 1/2 a second or a whole second might not make much change, but I would rather stick with the proven knowledge that moving the weight as fast as possible produces the biggest gains when compared to a slower speed, rather than chance my gains on the fact that going 1 second slow MIGHT produce the same gains.

So I definitely recognize your argument that gains might not be altered, so why should we strive for 100% effort at 2 seconds when we could get away with 3 seconds and see the same gains? You're right there, maybe it is a waste of effort for the same gains, maybe we are all pushing ourselves harder than we need to.

So unless you can quote some research that suggests a fast tempo is better than a moderate tempo, all we can establish with proof is that a fast tempo on the concentric stage is better than a slow tempo. So in the case of fast vs slow, faster comes out on top, in the case of fast vs moderate I can only guess that Fast would also come out on top but as far as I know there is no research anywhere to prove this.
Therefore with lack of research to prove either side of the argument it's case closed and again all we can safely prove is that moving the weight as fast as possible compared to a slow pace shows an increase in strength and muscle mass.

So I guess that answers the question the initial poster asks, slow reps or fast reps. Definitely fast on concentric stage, but you MAY be able to get away with a "moderate tempo".
 
But the slow twitch fibers are enganged first in the contraction. In explosive or heavy lifting when fast twitch needs to be used, the slow twitch are enganged first, then fast twitch. But we are talking about milliseconds here.it is my understanding that fast twitch fibers can't be enganged unless slow twitch are enganged also.
 
Last edited:
Well you are wrong if you are trying to suggest that time matters at all when it comes to the proven science that "moving the weight as fast as you can shows greater gains".

I see your point though, you're saying if person A can move the weight at 2 seconds but chooses to move it at 2.5 seconds, is there any research that shows this will get less gains. On that point I'm not quite sure if 0.5 or even 1 second would create a difference. .


So I guess that answers the question the initial poster asks, slow reps or fast reps. Definitely fast on concentric stage, but you MAY be able to get away with a "moderate tempo".

Thank you ...it finally sunk in...you finally see the point I was trying make.
 
Last edited:
those 0.5 seconds more would mean quite a bit less force put into the lift.

If you do box jump, would you not put everything into the jump? Why is pushing weight different?
 
those 0.5 seconds more would mean quite a bit less force put into the lift.

If you do box jump, would you not put everything into the jump? Why is pushing weight different?

Box jumps eh ?

Interesting.

What would you say is the essential difference ( if any ) in terms of primary training goals - between plyometrics ( i.e box jumps ) and strength training ?
 
Just a comment out of boredom at work, iv started to 'explode' or perform fast movement when im moving the weight, and as iv always done anyway iv kept it slower easing off the weight.

I noticed many ppl at my gym also explode the weight, so theres no longer any slow movement for me :D

BTW does anyone do any work directly for their forearms, i mean i know doing back and bicep exercises both work the forearms, but iv seen the odd person doing wrist curls etc - jus wondered if they would benefit my forearms anymore?
 
not really, wrist curls should not be high in priority. Do you want bigger forarms? or a stronger grip? There's no need to train the forearms directly unless you need it.
 
Wow my first ever thread :D

Iv learnt loads in these last 9 months! My own research, experience and this forum :D

BTW im bored...
 
Back
Top