Should i Weight Train?

[Omega]

If you had ever looked around anywhere on this forum before starting to post you would see that the tool that is most strongly recommended for monitoring food is It costs nothing - the account is free.

I suggest that you log all your food for ONE DAY into that and see just what your nutrition really looks like. You would learn a lot about nutrition that way.

It shows calories - but it also shows a heap of other nutrients too.

So - because it spooks you - ignore the calories field.

You speak of having a banana as if this makes you knowledgeable about nutrition because you may guess that your body needs it....

Do you know that you are getting enough potassium?
For that matter which vitamins you are not hitting the RDA on?

This is what most people on this forum do on a regular basis.

Take that along when you go to see your nutritionist. Ask then whether it is a more scientific approach than simply going by the hunch that your body could really do with a banana or some brunch bars or fruit and nut bars - which happen to be a rather poor choice most of the time.

 

[feeb]

i spoke about the banana as in theory rather than in practise - mostly because i really like bananas

I dont really get cravings for many things, except chocolate in the evenings due to a lifetime of naughty-ness!

Thanks for the website - i would definatly use something like that if i was interested how many calories are in something

Thanks for the link

Fi x

 

[Jynus]

kara not everyone is you - many many people look at calorie counting, eat exactly what they would have (crap) but less of in order to loose weight and end up feeling sluggish, knackered and ill

Which is why its important to have a broader view of nutrition than just 'counting calories'

you don't know kara. she spends countless hours in many many posts describing in detail proper macro balances and recommending proper nutritionally dense foods for people to eat. every since time she has ever typed, she has been a huge proponent of this concept.

I am glad you have found something that works, well done - but unless you know what someone is eating how can you justify suggesting to them that they eat less? Its a part of the equation for sure but its not the only part

I am sorry if that hasnt come across in my posts

show where kara (or steve or anyone) has done this. You're throwing strawman arguments at us hun. and I don't like it. We always ask what people eat, and make recommendations based on that in order to rearrange macros and make things a bit more balanced. I have zero idea how you seem to think otherwise, specially in light of post after post by all us who do exactly this.

 

[Jynus]

it is incredibly difficult to give your body the right amount of nutrients when you are eating less calories than what is reccomended - any big diet choices of this kind should be discussed with a dietician so that you are sure you are still recieving what you need from the food you are taking.

huh? no actually it's very EASY to do this. you can get all the nutrients you need on VERY little food. It's only when you're extremely active or athletic imo where you might start needing more. And if you're that worried about it, fruits, veggies, and a multivitamin. and you're basically covered.

 

[Omega]

i spoke about the banana as in theory rather than in practise - mostly because i really like bananas

I dont really get cravings for many things, except chocolate in the evenings due to a lifetime of naughty-ness!

Thanks for the website - i would definatly use something like that if i was interested how many calories are in something

Thanks for the link

Fi x

Hi Fiona

I really recommend that you check on fitday because the fact is that brunch bars and fruit and nut "muesli style" bars can actually be as bad for you as eating chocolate - sometimes even worse. They are marketed in such a way as to imply that they are a healthy choice when they really are not.

I suspect that other people hoped that you would check and reach this conclusion for yourself since you are clearly hoping to improve your nutrition. None of us like to feel that our early attempts have been criticised - particularly if we feel that we have done a good first stab at things.

These bars certainly jumped out at me when I read your early posting which mentioned them.

There are many healthier snacks that you may enjoy as much or possibly more. For instance - I love Shape yoghurts after they have been in the freezer for a couple of hours and are firm but not too hard. It is like having ice cream with protein, fibre and calcium contributing to your nutrition. Calcium is actually good for losing weight as well as good health so many of us try to ensure that we hit our 1000mg a day target.

A piece of fruit can make a good snack - but it is always worth watching your consumption of bananas because they can be fattening if eaten to excess. I would think twice about having more than one a day. They are a good source of potassium though.

I will add that this forum is unlike many others that you may have stumbled over. Firm nutritional control and fitness is the order of the day - with anyone that mentions VLCDs being encouraged to adopt good nutrition and take up consistent regular exercise instead. We regularly help people to understand how they can go about this.

People do not understand how many calories they can eat and lose weight - with even doctors not bothering to work out the formula and simply handing out 1200 calorie a day or 1500 calorie a day diet sheets. People forget that the "G" in "GP" stands for "General" and assume a level of dietary expertise. Many of us have had to become adept at calculating appropriate calorie levels.

I for one never managed to keep to 1200 calories a day in earlier diet attempts. I do not eat at that level now - and never needed to while losing weight. People that attempt to keep to a level which is too low run the risk of adopting poor nutrition and abandoning a task as too hard. They can also damage their metabolism making future weight control that much harder. There are many people losing weight successfully on these boards on 3000 calories a day.

Kara and Steve are actually very active in this - and many people have become healthier as a direct result of their advice. Pretty much everyone here has adopted this approach as a lifelong lifestyle change and works to hone their diet for good health and weight control.

There are people here who are working to gain weight or maintain weight. Not everyone is looking to lose weight. Some people work towards a calorie surplus because they want to build muscle. This is one potential reason why the concept of calorie requirements entered people's minds.

Naturally we all encounter tempting food from time to time (as you do with chocolate and muesli bars). Despite this - we can all work towards making our nutrition as good as it can be.

 

[feeb]

Hiya Omega and thank you for a very informative post

- i actually just noticed something about the brunch bars, i usually get Apline ones and they had a 'light' one next to them in the shop which had '100 calories or less' stamped on it, so i had a lookie at my stash at home and they are jammed with sugar and calories and fats and all sorts Not on!

So am going to have to wean myself off them but its SO hard in the evenings, all i want to do is eat cake basically and the cravings get really strong, its SO hard and my body has sort of got used to me giving it a brunch bar rather than a choccy bar but its difficult

I like yogurt so maybe i will try this frozen yogurt malarky it sounds really nice actually and would be great instead of icecream, or when my mates have a treat and i can join in.

Am sad about the brunch bars, will try and wean them out - as best i can but its hard with no replacement ;(

Thanks for the tips i really do appreciate it

 

[thepopquizkid]

Its sort of amazing to watch someone repeatedly miss the point of what Steve and Kara are saying.

I can't even put into words the frustration I feel just reading this.

weight loss will happen when you use more energy than what you take in.

 

[Omega]

Hiya Omega and thank you for a very informative post

- i actually just noticed something about the brunch bars, i usually get Apline ones and they had a 'light' one next to them in the shop which had '100 calories or less' stamped on it, so i had a lookie at my stash at home and they are jammed with sugar and calories and fats and all sorts Not on!

So am going to have to wean myself off them but its SO hard in the evenings, all i want to do is eat cake basically and the cravings get really strong, its SO hard and my body has sort of got used to me giving it a brunch bar rather than a choccy bar but its difficult

I like yogurt so maybe i will try this frozen yogurt malarky it sounds really nice actually and would be great instead of icecream, or when my mates have a treat and i can join in.

Am sad about the brunch bars, will try and wean them out - as best i can but its hard with no replacement ;(

Thanks for the tips i really do appreciate it

Many people can get spooked by the notion of calorie counting - but there is tremendous value of analysing the calories alongside other nutrients that you are taking in - if not all the time - every so often. Then you can pick up on things like this and things that otherwise send your nutrients off target. A bit like how you may want to retune your car's engine every so often whilst not permanently running it on a tuning device...

After a lot of weight loss experience (I have lost 12 stone) - I found myself drifting upwards over the winter. I have a very firm control of my diet and had become complacent after many months of hitting every nutritional target every day. I had stopped logging through fitday...

I knew that I wasnt having anything naughty.

I plugged my data through fitday and lo and behold - whilst my calories were perfectly within my 1400 to 1700 happy range and almost all my nutrients were exactly where I wanted them to be - my sodium had drifted upwards because I had been having a lot of home made soup. Sometimes I had used the water from boiling veg for stock - but other times I had used a stock cube or vecon paste - both of which were low in calories but high in sodium.

I knew that all the ingredients were healthy and low in calories - but I never thought about the sodium. If I can get caught out - then anyone can.

Please believe that Kara and Steve were just trying to help - but when someone reads a person saying that counting calories makes people fat they cannot let it go unchallenged. On a board such as this others may read and think that counting calories would make them fat.

Thankfully you have looked at the calorie content of those muesli bars and realise that the calories are indeed important. I would have hated it to be the cause of you not losing enough weight for your Bali trip.

 

[feeb]

Yes thank you so much for pointing that out to me - very valuable information

i am sorry to Steve and Kara if i came across as blunt and unwilling to hear others points of view, i am a bit fearful of this calorie counting lark because whenever i have tried it or seen others try it, its been really hard and very soul destroying!

Mind you i have found people who have had brilliant results through Wieght Watchers, because the people there are a bit more trained i suppose but i have noticed when they come off the programme they put the weight back on, hence why i would like to improve my diet more and more to a point where i dont think 'hmm i want chocolate' but actually build different behaviours in my brain that make me want fruit or something healthy...

It might take time but i will get there - its the evening munchies that are the killer for me - a lifetime of naughty-ness to right :S

Again thanks so much for your help, i shall be on the look out for healthier snackies from now on xx

 

[Omega]

Mind you i have found people who have had brilliant results through Wieght Watchers, because the people there are a bit more trained i suppose but i have noticed when they come off the programme they put the weight back on, ...

Funnily enough - I was involved in a discussion on the positives and negatives associated with Weight Watchers on another diet forum just yesterday...



I would argue with the concept of the leaders being more trained since I had to explain the notion of sodium sensitivity to someone that had been a WW leader for 19 years (too much sodium in your diet can make people gain weight). She was also unable to discuss output from fitday with me because it was not in the WW format - despite it showing calories and saturated fat (which are the only variables in the formula for WW points).

Anyone who successfully loses weight with WW is best advised to alter their points in accordance with the WW maintenance plan (generally adding 6 points to their weight loss allowance), ensure that they continue to exercise at the level suggested in the WW maintenance plan (they suggest that people earn 4 activity points a day) and continue going to meetings regularly. If they lost weight under the discontinued "core" plan there is an increased weekly point allowance that they should adopt.

The whole concept of weight gain as you come off a program is precisely why we encourage everyone here to think in terms of a lifestyle change which will last for the rest of our lives. We therefore move as seamlessly as possible from successful weight loss and into successful maintenance.

BTW you may have noticed - I put a couple of suggestions on your newcomer introduction thread.

 

[feeb]

Hey thanks - will check them out now

 

[KaraCooks]

Thanks for taking the time to explain everything so clearly, Omega. I must admit that I was getting frustrated enough with this thread that I had to walk away from it before I said something out of line.

Fiona - the thing is, ANYTHING can be difficult or soul destroying for those who abuse it. Eating healthy? I'm not sure if you've heard of Orthorexia but it's a newer eating disorder that doctors are just now beginning to explore and define. It's a disease where people are obsessed with eating healthily to the point that they won't eat anything that doesn't meet their standards - and they are starving themselves. This is from a documentary ABC did on the subject:

And, the other thing is that a lot of people say they're eating healthily, when they're really not - because they have a knee jerk reaction to counting calories, they make choices that they *think* are healthy, w/out looking at the values of the food they're eating. Your fruit and nut bars are an excellent example of this. You think they're healthy, but when you take the time to read the ingredients, you find they're not.

I know Omega has suggested several times that you sign up with fitday.com and log your food. I would encourage that as well. NOT to count calories, but to see exactly how nutritious your daily food intake is. To see if you're getting a balance of all the nutrients you need: Things like calcium, protein, various vitamins and minerals, fiber. Are you eating the right amount of sodium (under 2400 mg per day). Etc.

The thing is that calorie counting and nutrition HAVE to go hand in hand. Anyone who tries to do one without the other is going to have the same problem as someone who tries healthy eating without worrying about how much they're eating.

Yes, bananas are good for you, but if you eat 50 bananas a day, you're going to gain weight. Oats are healthy, but if you eat an "oat bar" that's loaded with sugar, it's not good for you. Etc.

Anyway, have an open mind and log your food. You might be surprised at what you learn!

 

[TheRedEyeJedi]

I dont calorie count.....I just cant be bothered. I accept some people need to know exactly where they are in terms of a calorie decefit but I dont feel I need to know that precisely.

But that doesnt mean I dont think about calories consumed versus calories expended. I just do it in a more basic way....ie - I eat lean meat, loads of fruit and veg, low fat cereal with low fat milk, fish a small amount of carbohydrates in the form of brown bread, rice, pasta and boiled potatos. I know that these foods are nutritious, balanced and low in fat and sugar.

As long as I dont over do the amounts of these foods that I eat, and as long as im exercising then im gonna lose weight.

Weight lifting and resistance training has been invaluable for me....Ive lost 4 stone so far and obviously im slimmer....but more importantly Im stronger, and have a much better body shape....that imo would not have happened without the weights.

Coming back to your banana issue.....if you want one then just eat it..... and eat as many as you want if it stops you eating cake.

Dont eat cereal bars..... they have worst stuff in them than eating actual cereal with some fruit combined...they are a con designed to make money from ill informed slimmers.


Dont really want to get into the same debate as others have had...but I do feel I need to add a couple of points.

1- I quickly understood after joining this forum that the overall messege is that if you are in a calorie deficit then science says you will lose weight BUT.........no where does it say anything about counting calories and surviviing on minimul calories being a must.....It just suggest you need to be in deficit to lose weight...if you want to consume more-thats fine. You just need to expend more to put yourself in deficit....its about trying to find a balance where you are in deficit, you are doing cardio, you are doing resitance and you are getting enough nutrition to feel good.

2- You must use resistance training to avoid skinny fat and muscle and strength loss

3- Nutrition is vital....especially if you are lifting weights and using Hiit training. Nowhere on this forum does it suggest being malunutritioned is a good idea in any way.


READ THE STICKIES IN THE WEIGHTS AND EXCERSISE SECTION AND YOU WILL SEE YOU MAY HAVE GOT THE WRONG END OF THE STICK ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE LIKE STEVE ARE SUGGESTING.