Random thoughts...

[jzthedetermined]

In a way I suppose.

In truth they need to find a why for themselves. When a why comes along without outside intervention it's usually stronger than an 'implanted' why coming from someone such as myself.

But at least it gets them thinking.

It's always amazing to me how little people spend time on thinking about not only their goals, but why they want to obtain them. What will it mean? What will it mean to not obtain them? Why are these goals something of desire for me and where do they come from? What is the cost and what do I think about said cost? How do I identify myself and does said identity flow with where I want to be in the future? On and on...

Most people don't go beyond, "I want to lose some weight."

So all these exercises that to some, seem quite silly, are simply to get you thinking on deeper levels.

So you are like their therapist too!! Let them come to their own decisions so it is POWERFUL!! You should charge your clients for "couch time" too!

I break things down real simple like... If you don't have a house plan to build your new home, and if you don't have the vision to see what you want your home to look like, how do you expect to build anything that you would want to live in??

Your spot on to ask them these important questions! I'm sure if they answer them, they become the best "clients" you have, and are so pleased with the results that they are convinced you are a GENIOUS!

 

[i_love_muscle]

It doesn't matter ... I'm giving you my values anyway

What I value most in my life is happiness. What makes me happy? Being healthy and fit and being able to continually set realistic goals and attaining them.

How do I attain my goals? By having a flexible plan ... and by implementing the following character traits: I'm competitive, dedicated, tenacious, stubborn and focussed (once I set a realistic goal, I NEVER give up on it).

The self-satisfaction I receive from attaining a goal is always worth the effort I put into it. The more effort it takes, the sweeter the taste at the end of the finish line

Don't have a clue if this has anything to do with what you're getting at, Steve ...

 

[Steve]

I don't run all clients though the same drills. I have clients who are very internally motivated and they're easy.

Obese clients tend to lack this in the weight loss department, obviously.

So it takes some coaxing.

Some aren't keen or up to answering questions of this level. I mean they try, but they're not sufficient and I've learned over time not to twist arms for the sake of time and sanity.

In those cases, I just train and educate and if things click, great. If not, they're not clients much longer.

Training is an art form imo. It goes well beyond the application of science.

 

[Steve]

It doesn't matter ... I'm giving you my values anyway

What I value most in my life is happiness. What makes me happy? Being healthy and fit and being able to continually set realistic goals and attaining them.

See, you're very internally motivated so I most likely wouldn't even ask these sort of questions do you. I'd motivate you through programming and setting PRs.

But in your example here, very open ended values usually take deeper questioning. I like to say, "keep asking why until you can't aswer it anymore."

No clear cut way in really going about it but the intent is to always find core emotions, values, thoughts or whatever and then finding ways to tie health and fitness to them.

In your case this wouldn't be a problem given what you said above.

How do I attain my goals? By having a flexible plan ... and by implementing the following character traits: I'm competitive, dedicated, tenacious, stubborn and focussed (once I set a realistic goal, I NEVER give up on it).

All traits of an internally motivated individual.

The self-satisfaction I receive from attaining a goal is always worth the effort I put into it. The more effort it takes, the sweeter the taste at the end of the finish line

Don't have a clue if this has anything to do with what you're getting at, Steve ...

Sure.

I mean these sorts of 'exercises' wouldn't have quite as profound an impact on you as say, someone who's obese and has spent next to know time thinking about what they think about consistently.

There's a lot of zombies out there.

 

[i_love_muscle]

But if a person doesn't do anything with themselves or set goals, don't you think all they are doing is taking up space, breathing my air and eating my food ...

Seriously, how can people go through life and NOT set goals or have a plan? Are they just coasting?

 

[i_love_muscle]

I guess the question here is what makes me internally motivated? Was I born like this? Probably ...

 

[jzthedetermined]

But if a person doesn't do anything with themselves or set goals, don't you think all they are doing is taking up space, breathing my air and eating my food ...

Seriously, how can people go through life and NOT set goals or have a plan? Are they just coasting?

or busy... or content. But of course, these people wouldn't be looking for a trainer!

 

[jzthedetermined]

I guess the question here is what makes me internally motivated? Was I born like this? Probably ...

IMOHO...You're addicted to feeling strong, confident, attractive, successful, able, independant...
you have every right to be!! It feels good. For myself, I'm just starting to feel a FEW of these again. Maybe it's feelings... see more questions!

 

[i_love_muscle]

They might not be looking for a trainer, but chances are they need one to push them

I just have high expectations of myself -- not unrealistic expectations -- therefore, I just keep pushing myself. That's the only way we can find our limits. And those limits are elastic. They change everyday. That's why your plans have to be flexible/elastic as well. Our bodies aren't static pieces of machinery. They are highly dynamic. We have good days and bad days. You have to be able to deal with those little setbacks because that's life

 

[Steve]

But if a person doesn't do anything with themselves or set goals, don't you think all they are doing is taking up space, breathing my air and eating my food ...

Seriously, how can people go through life and NOT set goals or have a plan? Are they just coasting?

Got me.

I'm not them.

I don't have their history.

They're experience.

So it's hard to say.

I don't see any common denominators either.

And mind you, it's not that they don't have goals. They simply haven't thought about their values or whys to any significant extent.

Most have professional goals or family goals.

 

[Steve]

I guess the question here is what makes me internally motivated? Was I born like this? Probably ...

Who cares?



I mean, yea, it's a cool question to think about that probably has a multifactorial answer... but it doesn't help those who aren't.

At least I haven't found a way to implant internal motivation with any sort of consistency across the board.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Who cares?



I mean, yea, it's a cool question to think about that probably has a multifactorial answer... but it doesn't help those who aren't.

At least I haven't found a way to implant internal motivation with any sort of consistency across the board.

Maybe internal motivation is directly proportional to a person's self-worth and how they perceive themselves in the world around them

My perception is I honestly think I'm cheating myself if I don't realize my potential. It's a burning drive that comes from deep, deep down inside me. I would not be a happy camper if I didn't take the time to educate myself in order to ultimately give me an edge on my journey here.

I like to win.

 

[jzthedetermined]

Maybe internal motivation is directly proportional to a person's self-worth and how they perceive themselves in the world around them

My perception is I honestly think I'm cheating myself if I don't realize my potential. It's a burning drive that comes from deep, deep down inside me. I would not be a happy camper if I didn't take the time to educate myself in order to ultimately give me an edge on my journey here.

I like to win.

There's that circle again!! How can "Joe Lunchbox" ever find that internal motivation, if they don't beleive thay have one?? How can someone who probably HATES themselves, or at least the way they look, perceive any differant than what they already do? Cheating yourself... most of these people looking for help, probably don't now what they are capable of, or if they are cheating themselves. I know that YOU know what your "tools, reasons, motivation is, but what someone elses is/are, only they can know. Steve... I'm sure it's the general discussion you are after here, because isn't all of this based on the individual anyway... you said it yourself, you can't make people realize what is going to work for them. It is great reading though! Lots of insight and ideas.

 

[WineDeer]

But if a person doesn't do anything with themselves or set goals, don't you think all they are doing is taking up space, breathing my air and eating my food ...

Seriously, how can people go through life and NOT set goals or have a plan? Are they just coasting?

I'll add what I was saying to Steve earlier -- if you don't know what you are capable of, if you have no concept of what it's like to do X or be Y, then can you possible set a goal?

It's like traveling somewhere -- let's take an example, like going to Rome.

You're in NYC (as an example). If you're never left the city, how do you get Rome? Do you even know where Rome is? Is Rome down the street? Or is it half-way around the world? How would you get there? Can you walk? Can you drive? Or do you have to fly? Do you have to cross water? Can you take a boat? How long will it take? Do you take food? Do you take clothes?

This can go on and on -- if you don't know it's going to take you a while to figure it all out.

We're lucky that we can hop on the internet, figure out which Rome (Rome, NY or Rome Italy?), find the best way to get there, at the price we can afford and figure out what we need to take.

Losing weight is the same kind of journey, but we don't all have that mapped out perfectly. Like I said in another post, I never had to learn how to lose weight because it was NEVER an issue. How do I learn? I have to start with basics, like, figuring out that I have to lose weight, then I have to figure out what I'm doing wrong, then I have to figure out what I should be doing, and then I have to overcome the obstacles.

I think because you're an athlete, some of this knowledge is already in your head -- you learned it because of your hobby/career.

I'm in the IT world, and I can tell you how some of the stuff works behind the technology you use -- but, assuming you don't know a thing about technology, could you set up a LAN network? Sure, you can, but you'd have to learn things that I have already mastered in the past. It's faster -- if not easier -- for me to do it.

Personally, I've never had to lose large amounts of weight. When I first started this -- and even now -- 50 lbs seems like an enormous amount of weight lose. I have no idea how I got here.

I was used to eating whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. That kept me thin -- for a while -- and then that stopped working. I need to figure out how to make this work for me.

P.S. To my previous post about my parents' nutritional habits -- they're the best in the world if you want to be healthy. They are macrobiotic. But I can't follow that lifestyle -- I have to find something else.

So, sometimes I feel like crap because they offer to give me something that is so attainable for me -- something that they believe works, something that has made them healthier people. But I can't do it -- It's not my path, at least not for now.

 

[i_love_muscle]

I'll add what I was saying to Steve earlier -- if you don't know what you are capable of, if you have no concept of what it's like to do X or be Y, then can you possible set a goal?

It's like traveling somewhere -- let's take an example, like going to Rome.

You're in NYC (as an example). If you're never left the city, how do you get Rome? Do you even know where Rome is? Is Rome down the street? Or is it half-way around the world? How would you get there? Can you walk? Can you drive? Or do you have to fly? Do you have to cross water? Can you take a boat? How long will it take? Do you take food? Do you take clothes?

This can go on and on -- if you don't know it's going to take you a while to figure it all out.

We're lucky that we can hop on the internet, figure out which Rome (Rome, NY or Rome Italy?), find the best way to get there, at the price we can afford and figure out what we need to take.

Losing weight is the same kind of journey, but we don't all have that mapped out perfectly. Like I said in another post, I never had to learn how to lose weight because it was NEVER an issue. How do I learn? I have to start with basics, like, figuring out that I have to lose weight, then I have to figure out what I'm doing wrong, then I have to figure out what I should be doing, and then I have to overcome the obstacles.

I think because you're an athlete, some of this knowledge is already in your head -- you learned it because of your hobby/career.

I disagree. Gymnastics and track and field are not the same as weight training. I have had to learn everything about what I'm doing now and I still have a lot to learn about weight training. I am an information hound, so researching and collecting data is a passion for me. I also love to read.

I also had to learn everything I could about nutrition and diet, especially once I was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. I took it upon myself to search for relevant information and apply it to my life.

Learning how to do something isn't the major obstacle. We all have the ability to learn.

The major obstacle is taking the first step: acknowledging that there is a problem. The easy part is learning what to do in order to succeed and then making a concerted effort to apply said information to your life in order to attain your goal.

 

[WineDeer]

Learning how to do something isn't the major obstacle. We all have the ability to learn.

The major obstacle is taking the first step: acknowledging that there is a problem. The easy part is learning what to do in order to succeed and then making a concerted effort to apply said information to your life in order to attain your goal.

I disagree with this part.

I know I am capable of learning, but if I can't find the information -- or I don't know where to look, which was my first issue -- then it's hard to educate yourself.

I do agree that a parallel step is also admitting that there is a problem. I think that's easier if you know you're heavy. The problem is understanding WHY you're overweight, and all the details that go behind those reasons.

I don't think just knowledge makes you put that information into action.

Maybe that's what Steve was trying to address in his first post -- how do you get from knowing something to actually ACTING on it?

 

[Steve]

That's part of it.

Case in point.

I know a woman who is 420 lbs.

Does she enjoy the way she is physically?

Nope, not much at all. She doesn't get around well, she's uncomfortable, she doesn't fit in places, on and on.

She could also out talk me with regards to nutrition. Big time. Very, very intelligent woman.

I've had discussions with her spanning hours on numerous occasions about it all and the fact remains that she does not know how to put her knowledge to use in a meaningful way. Nor my instruction.

She has overriding tendencies/proclivities that she simply can't bury. Said proclivities simply won't yield for more than a month to any conscious attempt at losing weight.

She also won't even attempt to analyze her thought patterns. She claims it's not her thoughts that has her screwed up. It's a combination of food addiction and a lack of willpower. But that doesn't make much sense to me. Food addiction? Sure, that could seriously be playing a role in it. Lack of willpower though? She's a smart woman. She understanding the cost of being this large is. She understands what's on the other side of the fence. I can't help but believe she has some serious mental distortions and road blocks set up inside that head but she refuses to even go there.

This is just one example.

Of course people have education that they either choose not to or don't know how to put into action.

I'm not really speaking on that level.

There's also a million and one things that make different people tick. I'm not really talking about either unless from it we deduce some common denominators that are applicable to the situation I'm discussing.

Suppose there are two 400 lb people.

One is too lazy to do a damn thing about it; not even willing to make the smallest of attempts. I'm not interested in him or her.

Time is too valuable.

The second wants it more than anything. She discusses it all the time. She might even go to therapy. She tries and fails time and time again. Or she doesn't even try at all.

My logic tells me if she wants A (weight loss) but she does B (gets fatter), she:

a) has something psychologically wrong with her (i.e., addiction, etc.)

b) she's lying about what she really wants.

c) unknown variable such as an inability to assess/perceive things in a way that rationalizes positive action in the short term

And there's probably a host more factors.

Don't misread me. I'm not suggesting these are the only two categorizations out there. I've met clients who simply weren't ready to lose weight for whatever reasons. Sure, they may be unhappy with their size, but suffice it to say THEY WEREN'T READY. Eventually they are and the lose.

But something is different about the second category. Sometimes simply getting them to think more about their thoughts is enough. Sometimes though I'm at a loss.

 

[WineDeer]

One last thought for tonight -- that book, "You on a Diet" by the doctors from the Oprah show were AMAZING at explaining what goes on in the digestive system and how it impacts your brain chemicals that send the signals for hunger or for cravings.

I wish someone had told me those things before, because I would have understood WHY I have a craving for a piece of cake one day and a slice of pizza another.

Let me add, however, that their website is really bad -- I really expected something much better.

 

[i_love_muscle]

I disagree with this part.

I know I am capable of learning, but if I can't find the information -- or I don't know where to look, which was my first issue -- then it's hard to educate yourself.

I would think the majority of the population knows how to find information. I don't know people who don't know how to find information, but most people I know have University degrees and therefore are aware of basic research skills. They make phone calls, they ask questions. They get pointed in the right direction. Or they search for the information themselves and find good sources.

I do agree that a parallel step is also admitting that there is a problem. I think that's easier if you know you're heavy. The problem is understanding WHY you're overweight, and all the details that go behind those reasons.

I don't think just knowledge makes you put that information into action.

Maybe that's what Steve was trying to address in his first post -- how do you get from knowing something to actually ACTING on it?

I never said knowledge makes you act. However, I don't understand how a person doesn't know how to take action once they have the information. My basic premise for obtaining information for a specific purpose is "How badly do I want this and how much energy am I willing to expend on getting this?" If I want it, I get the information and I act on it. It's a domino effect for me.

Therefore, I've never had a problem taking action once I feel I have enough information to actually take action. Then I simply find a way to do it and I do it. If Plan A doesn't work out quite the way I wanted, I go into Plan B and Plan C and Plan D. How much easier can it get? It's so simple it's criminal.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Suppose there are two 400 lb people.

One is too lazy to do a damn thing about it; not even willing to make the smallest of attempts. I'm not interested in him or her.

Time is too valuable.

The second wants it more than anything. She discusses it all the time. She might even go to therapy. She tries and fails time and time again. Or she doesn't even try at all.

My logic tells me if she wants A (weight loss) but she does B (gets fatter), she:

a) has something psychologically wrong with her (i.e., addiction, etc.)

b) she's lying about what she really wants.

c) unknown variable such as an inability to assess/perceive things in a way that rationalizes positive action in the short term

And there's probably a host more factors.

Don't misread me. I'm not suggesting these are the only two categorizations out there. I've met clients who simply weren't ready to lose weight for whatever reasons. Sure, they may be unhappy with their size, but suffice it to say THEY WEREN'T READY. Eventually they are and the lose.

But something is different about the second category. Sometimes simply getting them to think more about their thoughts is enough. Sometimes though I'm at a loss.

There could also be a physiological reason for their eating issues. Their serotonin levels and/or receptors may be completely disrupted and some may be missing, hence the reason they aren't responding. It's not so much that you're not getting through to them; it's more a case of their brain not being wired properly.

You are probably already fully aware of the connection between serotonin and obesity, but I'll share a few links with you:






I don't know if that helps or hinders ...