Random thoughts...

[Steve]

"You owe it to yourself to do this."

Has anyone ever said this to you?

Someone said it to me yesterday in passing when we were talking about how serious I want to pursue something and it really made me think. I believe I've said it in not so much the same exact words quite a number of times to some of my clients and even members here on the forum.

But this guy doesn't know what I owe to myself anymore than I know what you owe to yourself.

I can't help but think that each of us deserves the best. Or at least the opportunity to work towards obtaining the best. Best what? I'm not really sure; I think it's up to you to answer that. I think most people need to be really good at just one thing, if not more... to passionately pursue at least something in life.

Passion is such a powerful emotion. Personally, the things I am passionate about are what helps put value on living and breathing. When I'm doing those things I am most passionate about is when I feel most alive. Most confident. Most happy, rooted and connected.

Is what we are owed the same as what we deserve?

If so, I truly believe we deserve in return the effort we put in. Although it's not always reciprocal... hard, consistent work tends to yield the deepest, longest lasting results.

Still thinking about some of the people I've worked with who struggled to find drive to pursue weight loss, I started thinking about the questions I asked above more.

I said we deserve the best.

But isn't it true that one has to believe they're deserving of the 'rewards' before they actually pursue them? Someone telling you you deserve great things doesn't mean you believe it. Hell, you telling yourself you deserve something doesn't make you believe it. If you don't believe it, why are you ever going to chase it?

If that's true, how do you bridge the disconnect between what you desire and the lack of what you believe you deserve?

In my experience, and I've been lucky enough to 'root around' in some people's minds, it always comes down to perception. Of course this is just my own perception and I'm sure there are other ways of looking at it and other answers that I'd be happy to hear.

For those who have trouble bridging this disconnect I speak of, it always seems their perceptions are wacky. Most often it's not their fault. When you're told something most every day you've been alive, you learn to walk in those shoes. You learn to become that person. We're impressionable and the 'script' life hands us often dictates who we become, or so it seems. What originates as a pair of lenses your environment places in front of your eyes, skews your vision, and, over time, becomes your actual eyes.

These eyes see clear as day too, which makes things extremely difficult since seeing is believing for many.

In this case, your beliefs are products of your repetitive environment and thinking differently against those beliefs acutely does jack all in terms of changing anything long term.

So repetition creates belief?

I'm rambling a lot and I'm not even sure where I'm taking this since it's literally a conversation I was having in my own head that didn't quite go anywhere or finish last night.

I asked myself, "What am I truly passionate about?"

The list was rather short:

1. Family and friends
2. Fitness/health and helping others on this level
3. Education
4. Freedom

That's really it. I mean those things can be subdivided and then divided some more from there. But they're my core passions.

Then I asked myself, "Did these passions come first before my positive action and positive results? Or did my actions help develop said passions? And do I believe I'm deserving of them?"

The first set of questions I'm not sure about.

The last question is I wholeheartedly believe I'm deserving of them. Why?

Because I put in the work.

lol

But this brought me back around to my simple dilemma of, 'if you don't believe you deserve something you're not going to put the kind of work required into it.'

So I must have believed I was deserving from the get go but I'm not exactly sure where that belief came from. I suppose, the belief, or lack thereof, is rooted in our histories, experience and environments... as I concluded above.

Some of us are lucky and pull a good card. These people's environments are such that fuel success and feelings/beliefs of self-deserving.

Others are not so lucky.

And there has to be ways to work around that.

I know one thing. Asking questions of yourself about your thoughts and beliefs is so crazily important. It helps you identify patterns and distortions that habitually dictate your decisions. We're all thinking thousands of thoughts per day. Rarely do we ask, "Why did I just think that? Where did it come from? What does it mean? Is there another way of looking at it?"

They say there's two sides to everything.

There's a lot more than that, so make sure you 'peep around the corners' every once in a while.

I know I have my opinions, some of which I've expressed throughout this forum, about the subject. If anyone has anything to add or wants to discuss anything, it's your stage.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Random thoughts? Those are pretty powerful thoughts, Steve

The mind-body-spirit connection is extremely powerful. A body can be trained to do a lot of things, the mind can be educated, and the spirit can be calmed, but without the power of the mind believing in the power of the body and the spirit believing in the power of the individual, you won't succeed.

For me, it all boils down to the adage "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

At least that's what I got out of your random thoughts

 

[Steve]

I would agree with you. Getting people to see that though is a challenge of giant proportions though.

Some would argue you can't.

When they're ready to believe, ready to make change... they will.

I'm not sure I believe that. I've connected with some of my clients to an extent that seemed to change their belief structures and behaviors. But it's never been a set way of going about it. It's random and happens when we 'click.'

I've had others who I wasn't as lucky with and it seems there's no getting through to them.

I know there's no answer that fits into a neat little package... but it is something that's on my mind often.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Having all that come together is the difference between a person who succeeds and a person who fails.

I would hope that most people would want to work hard on establishing that magical equation and working to keep it "tuned up" because it affects everything you do in life ... every day.

It's certainly a work-in-progress for me. Some days it's easy. Other days it's tough. For example, right now I'm having a motivational crisis (at least I think it's a crisis!).

I've basically been in rehab for 3 years and haven't been able to do what I consider to be a decent full body workout in that time period. It's been really difficult for me mentally (far greater than the physical aspects) and I'll admit it's wearing really thin on my psyche.

I've had to dig deep down to find the strength to keep going to the gym despite me believing my efforts are half-assed at best, and I'll admit it's taken just about everything I have not to quit.

Although I'd be so pissed with myself if I did quit, I don't think my lack of motivation would last very long

 

[Steve]

Having all that come together is the difference between a person who succeeds and a person who fails.

In most all cases I agree.

I would hope that most people would want to work hard on establishing that magical equation and working to keep it "tuned up" because it affects everything you do in life ... every day.

I think everyone wants it.

They just can't seem to get it.

That is where my issue lies.

It's certainly a work-in-progress for me. Some days it's easy. Other days it's tough. For example, right now I'm having a motivational crisis (at least I think it's a crisis!).

I've basically been in rehab for 3 years and haven't been able to do what I consider to be a decent full body workout in that time period. It's been really difficult for me mentally (far greater than the physical aspects) and I'll admit it's wearing really thin on my psyche.

I've had to dig deep down to find the strength to keep going to the gym despite me believing my efforts are half-assed at best, and I'll admit it's taken just about everything I have not to quit.

Although I'd be so pissed with myself if I did quit, I don't think my lack of motivation would last very long

That's understandable and I get it. I've been injured a number of times that kept me from training optimally.

It's how I learned that 'suboptimal' training is only suboptimal when you compare it to optimal training.

In fact, suboptimal training is sometimes optimal training when considered in a particular set of circumstances such as yours.

If that makes any sense.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Yeah, that actually makes sense ...

I've learned a heck of a lot about my body in those three years. And I've strengthened my body in ways I never would have if I had never injured myself. In many ways, I'm a lot stronger than I was before my injuries ... if that makes any sense. And I'm a lot smarter, too

So really when I look at it that way, it was a win-win scenario

You have to make do with what life throws at you, and it's always better to turn a negative into a positive and make it work FOR you than dwell on the downside and make it work AGAINST you.

 

[Steve]

Ahhh, you're outlook is refreshing.

Good for you.

I'm surprised nobody else has reflections on this topic.

 

[i_love_muscle]

I think my outlook is a result of realizing that when you're injured, you can't change your situation and that your mental timeline for recovery never coincides with your body's timeline to heal itself.

You really just have to accept it and make the best of it. I always try to have some fun at physio because if I dwelled on the negative and let it get me down, I'd feel really crappy. I'm one of those people who thinks negative thoughts create negative vibes and every negative thought a person has becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy (the subconscious mind being far more powerful than the conscious mind) ... if that makes any sense.

I'm also surprised nobody has any thoughts on this, because this is pretty basic stuff ... it affects everybody every day in every way

 

[shae]

Believing in something, truly believing has given me everything I have deserved. Some people in my life think I am just lucky, I'm not, I worked hard and believed. Even when things weren't going the way I planned, I kept believing.

However I have had the right outlook behind it all. So many mistakes, a lot of hard roads, failed attempts, God it goes on and on. But with every mistake I knew I was getting closer and closer to the life that I had envisioned for myself. What would be the point in giving up if success might be just around the corner? The mistakes were my motivation to keep going, eventually I would get it right, and all these mistakes I could share with my family and friends to help them in so many areas of their lives.

I planned exactly what I have right now many years ago. I drew it, I mapped it, I stared at it, I reminded myself of it in everything I did. Bit by bit I changed a thing here and there, crossed another thing off my list.

If you truly believe in things they will happen. You just have to be patient and take in everything along the road. The end result might not be exactly what you had in mind, it will most likely be much better, it will be what you deserved.

 

[cookiequeen]

I have a book where I write positive thoughts and quotes to help me when I am feeling down etc. I wrote down "If you don't believe you deserve something you're not going to put the kind of work required into it" in there, because that is exactly it, that is what I am struggling with.

Not even just with weight, but with school and life in general. I really struggle with feeling that I deserve happiness etc., so I start having some success and boom, I just back off and do things to mess my successes up. How is eating pop tarts and chocolates and an overall unhealthy diet going to help me lose weight? I want to lose weight, but have been stuck gaining and losing the same 5lbs for the past few months. Its fear of failure, but also fear of success. Its this feeling like I deserve it piece...

You point out something very important Steve; one must really think about the way we see things, the way we perceive things, and question our thoughts and assumptions about ourselves. I have learned the long and hard way that the way you think about yourself has a huge impact on the way you treat yourself. I started losing weight last January (not a new years resolution, just happened to be when a fitness class started that my friend and I signed up for), and this is the longest amount of time that I have actively tried to lose weight and have had some success. I am working on feeling worthy of success, but its a work in progress; doesn't happen overnight!

Thanks for writing this Steve, definitely motivating for me!

 

[Steve]

If you truly believe in things they will happen. You just have to be patient and take in everything along the road. The end result might not be exactly what you had in mind, it will most likely be much better, it will be what you deserved.

Yea.

That's what I've been saying.

The point of this thread is ideas about how to instill belief. Not everyone can flip the switch like that.

 

[WineDeer]

"You owe it to yourself to do this."

Has anyone ever said this to you?

My boyfriend is the first one that said it to me recently.

I can't help but think that each of us deserves the best. Or at least the opportunity to work towards obtaining the best. Best what?

I don't know if we necessarily deserve the "best" -- I think we deserve to be true to ourselves. I think we need to figure out what we want and what need and pursue that.

Is what we are owed the same as what we deserve?

I don't think anyone is owed anything, and equally, necessarily deserves it. I'm very big on personal responsibility -- science or logic can explain things, but at the end of the day, we all make choices about every little thing in our life.

Although it's not always reciprocal... hard, consistent work tends to yield the deepest, longest lasting results.

I agree with this. But I think that the results don't necessarily mean a Cindy Crawford body, but rather the lessons that you learn in that process. The body is a bonus, but not everyone can look like her (or even wants to look like that).

But isn't it true that one has to believe they're deserving of the 'rewards' before they actually pursue them? Someone telling you you deserve great things doesn't mean you believe it. Hell, you telling yourself you deserve something doesn't make you believe it. If you don't believe it, why are you ever going to chase it?

In regards to weight-loss my journey has included the fact that I never had to do any of this with any effort. I woke up at age 22 (I'm now 32) not knowing how I had gain all the weight I gained in the last four years (mostly college).

I hadn't been educated on nutrition or why exercise was beneficial. In fact, I only learned on this website how many calories are in a pound of fat and that you have to be in caloric deficit to lose weight.

Don't ask me what I thought about weight-loss before... because I didn't. I never had to!

Do I deserve to lose weight? It's more than that -- I deserve to be back at the weight that I feel the most comfortable in (which is about 50 or so pounds away). I just never really understood how to get there or what I had to do. In fact, I don't think I fully do, but with the knowledge that I do have, I hope to get there.

If that's true, how do you bridge the disconnect between what you desire and the lack of what you believe you deserve?

I think the question is more about how do you formulate the desire for something that you never thought you needed (in my case)? How do you change you thought patterns to adapt to your new reality? How do you take the first step into an unknown world?

So repetition creates belief?

Sometimes, more often that not, I think. I've been overweight for the last 10 years of my life (and then some) but it took me a VERY long time to really accept that I had gained all this weight. It's not part of my psyche.

What I'm finding difficult right now is the concept of doing something that I haven't really ever done before -- to lose ALL the weight I gained.

I've lost 10 lbs here and there, and I think I can do that. But, can I lose not only 10 lbs, but REALLY keep them off, FOREVER? Can I lose 20 lbs and keep them off FOREVER?

I've never done it before.

Then I asked myself, "Did these passions come first before my positive action and positive results? Or did my actions help develop said passions? And do I believe I'm deserving of them?"

For my passions, I know that I had an interest in them since I was a baby -- something that was passed down from my family. The positive reinforcement there enabled me to pursue the passion and make it a part of my personality.

So, it became a cycle of positive reinforcement, action, reward, more reinforcement, etc.

I never thought about whether I deserved them or not.

I'm trying to make fitness to be that -- it's just part of my life. It's not a question about whether I deserve to be healthy, but rather that it's my state of being. This is the new normal, rather than the overweight normal.

'if you don't believe you deserve something you're not going to put the kind of work required into it.'

I understand what you're saying, but for my personal struggle, it's not about feeling whether I deserve it or not. It's about figuring out how the hell I got here and can I even go back? (I don't think so, but not for the reasons you may think). And if I can't go back, but I can lose the weight, how the hell do I do it, if I've never done it before? And does my life have to be obsessed about food and measuring and exercise or will any of this become second nature? And will it mean I can be a healthier person? Or will I still be sick but thinner?

I remember what I was like at 17 and thin -- I'm 32 now. Even if I lost the weight this second, I don't think I would feel like I did at 17. I'm an adult now! So, I don't know what it's like to be thinner. I wonder if I did -- like, if I had a week or a month at my goal weight/fitness to experience that life -- if I would be even MORE motivated to get to my goal weight/fitness level.

I don't know. It's the stuff that I think about, though.

 

[Steve]

I have a book where I write positive thoughts and quotes to help me when I am feeling down etc. I wrote down "If you don't believe you deserve something you're not going to put the kind of work required into it" in there, because that is exactly it, that is what I am struggling with.

Not even just with weight, but with school and life in general. I really struggle with feeling that I deserve happiness etc., so I start having some success and boom, I just back off and do things to mess my successes up. How is eating pop tarts and chocolates and an overall unhealthy diet going to help me lose weight? I want to lose weight, but have been stuck gaining and losing the same 5lbs for the past few months. Its fear of failure, but also fear of success. Its this feeling like I deserve it piece...

I really liked this post.

For starters, you spend time righting down and analyzing your thoughts to an extent and that is miles ahead of many who are struggling. Good on you.

Secondly, your struggles are text book what I've experienced the most as a trainer and what I've discussed the most here on this forum about psychology.

Fear of pain hinders consistency and progress.

Acutely you can push forward but it doesn't last long at all b/c the beliefs of pain are too engrained and always eventually override.

Identification of what your afraid of and/or what you see pain in is such a huge first step. You can't change what you don't identify. Here's some stuff I said on the subject not so long ago:

That's this philosophy playing out picture perfect, to be honest. Your fear of the unknown and your fear of failure is far more real to you than any pleasure you could possibly mentally attach to your goals. That is, if you don't take conscious control of your habitual thought patterns.

One of the first thing I do with clients who have been struggling for years trying to lose weight is simple... for two weeks, I have them right down their thoughts in relation to losing weight and healthy living. The first few days is usually tough. I'm lucky if they write down 5 thoughts when you know damn well their weight and their desire is on their minds far more than 5 times per day.

The tricky part is, though, that monitoring your internal dialog is tough. It's tough b/c for most of us it's entirely on autopilot. We're in a state of reaction, reacting to what our unconscious minds are programmed to do. It's not a matter of being mentally lazy. It's a matter of being completely mentally ignorant to the things you're saying to yourself. That voice that guides each and every one of your decisions. You simply haven't developed an ear for it, is all. And because of this, your choices are already determined.... along with your destiny for the most part.

If you've been told or if you've thought your entire life that you're fat and will always be fat... guess what? Without mentally, consciously intervening... your mind is programmed to keep you fat. Simple as that.

That's why identifying your habitual, internal dialog is critical. The writing down part of it is insanely critical. If you don't put pen to paper, chances are very good that you won't actually visualize the thought. And if you don't visualize it, you can't mold it.

Once everything is identified, the perception Joe Client has about losing weight and living healthy becomes astonishingly clear. At this point you can start separating the pain thoughts from the pleasure thoughts. Does this pain-link propel you toward your goal or drive you away.

A pain-link that would drive you toward your goal, for example, would be, "If I don't lose weight I will never know the pleasure of wearing this sexy outfit I've had hanging in my closet forever." Or it could be even simpler than that; "Gorging on snacks while watching television is painful in the context of my emotionally backed, ultimate goals simply b/c it takes me further from them."

A pain-link that drives you away from your goal, for example, would be, "I've tried a million times to lose weight and the bottom line is I've always wound up as fat or fatter than when I started... nothing is going to work." Or even simpler; "Leading this lifestyle is going to cost me X, Y, and Z and I love X, Y, and Z."

And pleasure... pleasure sounds great but your pleasure-links can make or break you in similar ways as your pain-links. For instance, what if you link ultimate pleasure to lazy weekends, chocolate, eating a box of cookies, etc, etc? The very thought of healthy living is in direct contradiction and you're automatically setting yourself up for failure... simply put, I guarantee that b/c of these uncontrolled ultimate pleasure links the very thought of healthy living is painful b/c it means paying with your loves. Who wants to give up their loves?

And it can be extremely complex. For one variable you can have multiple pain-associations and multiple pleasure-associations. The identification and analysis of said variable is the tricky part. The obvious thing is that how that variable will pan out in real life depends on what associations, pain or pleasure, are most real to you. Which ones are obvious and logical to you given the context of your habitual, unconscious mind. And it's important to note that what's logical in this light may not be logical at all in another.

There are a million ways you can analyze this and for some, it can be very profound and life-changing. Last I checked thoughts become realities. What you think about most often and how you think about it tends to lead to the actual strokes of the paintbrush, so to speak. If you're trying to pain a lush, green field and the only color in your palette (mind) is purple... guess what? You're not going to get very far on that painting.

And that's what most do in life. Something happens where they become consciously aware of the fact they want to lose weight and get healthy. They no longer fit in a pair of pants they love. They see an old friend who lost a ton of weight and looks great. They develop a weight-related illness. They can't run around with their children like they used to and they realize the harsh reality that if nothing changes it's only going to get worse. On and on and on.

And when these sorts of realizations are made, they take action. What they don't realize though is that they are trying to paint a lush, green field with purple paint. Unless you change the unconscious... what you are consciously trying to do isn't going to work. Sure, it might lead to some positive movement. You might lose some weight... even a good bit. But more often than not, your acute realizations from above are not strong enough to completely re-wire your unconscious... to completely change the way you perceive life.

Then again, for some, they simply make up their mind to accomplish something and they do it. But that's extremely rare in my experience.

This is getting way too long and I'd actually like it if some people read this so I'll stop here.

You point out something very important Steve; one must really think about the way we see things, the way we perceive things, and question our thoughts and assumptions about ourselves.

I'm responding as I'm reading along, but it's pretty obvious we are on the exact same page.

I have learned the long and hard way that the way you think about yourself has a huge impact on the way you treat yourself. I started losing weight last January (not a new years resolution, just happened to be when a fitness class started that my friend and I signed up for), and this is the longest amount of time that I have actively tried to lose weight and have had some success. I am working on feeling worthy of success, but its a work in progress; doesn't happen overnight!

Thanks for writing this Steve, definitely motivating for me!

You're quite welcome, and thanks for sharing your side of things. Best to you.

 

[Steve]

My boyfriend is the first one that said it to me recently.

Before jumping into your post, let me say that I never intended to make blanket 'observations' applicable to everyone. I don't have to tell you that we're all very unique in perceptions and what we'll respond to.

I appreciate your take on things very much.

I don't know if we necessarily deserve the "best" -- I think we deserve to be true to ourselves. I think we need to figure out what we want and what need and pursue that.

But what's best is very relative to your own definition. Maybe by your definition people don't deserve the best.

By mine they do.

The best is a very open-ended term in my mind. It can (and does IMO) include being true to yourself.

I believe we're in agreement even though I may not expressed myself fully.

I don't think anyone is owed anything, and equally, necessarily deserves it. I'm very big on personal responsibility --

Again I think I either didn't express myself clearly or you misinterpreted what I meant. Either way, no big deal... this is a discussion and therefore I'll clarify now.

I can't STAND! the level of entitlement everyone thinks they are owed. If you knew me, you'd definitely see that in me. I think people who bust ass day in and out in the face of struggles and hardships deserve reward though. They are owed reward.

We all have to struggle to get what we deserve. Expecting anything less I'm not a fan of.

Do you agree or still disagree?

science or logic can explain things, but at the end of the day, we all make choices about every little thing in our life.

Amen to that.

I agree with this. But I think that the results don't necessarily mean a Cindy Crawford body, but rather the lessons that you learn in that process. The body is a bonus, but not everyone can look like her (or even wants to look like that).

Did I give that impression?

If so, sorry.

I of all people will be the first to say we're all bound by our genetic proclivities. No amount of training or diet will change this fact. We all have the potential to look absolutely phenomenal within the confines of these genetic limits.

I've gotten into some pretty heavy debates with people on here who solely aim their goals on what someone else looks like; a friend, a star, etc. Obviously this is really skewed and misguided.

In regards to weight-loss my journey has included the fact that I never had to do any of this with any effort. I woke up at age 22 (I'm now 32) not knowing how I had gain all the weight I gained in the last four years (mostly college).

I hadn't been educated on nutrition or why exercise was beneficial. In fact, I only learned on this website how many calories are in a pound of fat and that you have to be in caloric deficit to lose weight.

Don't ask me what I thought about weight-loss before... because I didn't. I never had to!

I've heard people say similar things. It's as if one day they woke up and realized, "Hey, I'm fat."

Some people excel from this point.

Some don't.

My interest is with those who don't.

Do I deserve to lose weight? It's more than that -- I deserve to be back at the weight that I feel the most comfortable in (which is about 50 or so pounds away). I just never really understood how to get there or what I had to do. In fact, I don't think I fully do, but with the knowledge that I do have, I hope to get there.

Education is a powerful tool.

The people I'm talking about don't really respond to education, unfortunately.

I think the question is more about how do you formulate the desire for something that you never thought you needed (in my case)? How do you change you thought patterns to adapt to your new reality? How do you take the first step into an unknown world?

I like this.

Any suggestions? Obviously there's no right or wrong answer and from what I gather, you don't so much fall into the category of people I'm talking about. I'm still interested in your thoughts though.

Sometimes, more often that not, I think. I've been overweight for the last 10 years of my life (and then some) but it took me a VERY long time to really accept that I had gained all this weight. It's not part of my psyche.

So much the same way people still feel fat after losing hundreds of pounds and looking great, you still were living with a skinny body in mind even though reality was different?

It's like the mind is always playing catch up to reality, huh.

For my passions, I know that I had an interest in them since I was a baby -- something that was passed down from my family. The positive reinforcement there enabled me to pursue the passion and make it a part of my personality.

So, it became a cycle of positive reinforcement, action, reward, more reinforcement, etc.

I never thought about whether I deserved them or not.

Family support seems to be a critical component in all this. The people who seem to be able to change their beliefs more easily seem to have a common denominator of a strong family that supported and instilled a sort of confidence in them from the very beginning.

Problem rests with those who weren't so fortunate.

***

I enjoyed reading this. Interesting stuff.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Yea.

That's what I've been saying.

The point of this thread is ideas about how to instill belief. Not everyone can flip the switch like that.

I agree with everybody here.

The plans we make for ourselves have to be extremely flexible. Plan A rarely pans out from beginning to end. There are many, many curves in the road we take on our journey through life.

A lot of people think that if Plan A doesn't work out, it's not meant to be. In many cases, that couldn't be further from the truth. I consider curveballs to be minor speed bumps that are placed in my path to test my resolve. If I want something badly enough, I'll expend the extra energy it takes to get over each bump. But that takes belief in oneself and one's ability to reach the destination. The journey is what teaches us lessons about what we're made of and is the most valuable part of the equation. The destination is often anti-climactic

Success is simply perseverance and the belief in our ability to reach our destination of choice. But sometimes the destination ends up changing once we start our journey and see other possibilities. Plan B, Plan C and even Plan Z might be what was best for us ... but we weren't able to see that until we started our journey with Plan A.

I hope that made some sense ...

 

[WineDeer]

Before jumping into your post, let me say that I never intended to make blanket 'observations' applicable to everyone. I don't have to tell you that we're all very unique in perceptions and what we'll respond to.

I appreciate your take on things very much.

No problem. I like thinking about things, can you tell?!?!?!

I believe we're in agreement even though I may not expressed myself fully.

Possibly!

I can't STAND! the level of entitlement everyone thinks they are owed. If you knew me, you'd definitely see that in me. I think people who bust ass day in and out in the face of struggles and hardships deserve reward though. They are owed reward.

We all have to struggle to get what we deserve. Expecting anything less I'm not a fan of.

Do you agree or still disagree?

I agree. That's why I'm cautious around words like "deserve" and "owe" because it has the connotation of "entitlement" and I don't think any of us are entitled to anything.

And probably on a sadder note, I'm also aware that you can struggle (or fight) for something, and still not get it. I just had a family member pass away who fought tooth and nail to get better and they didn't -- and it's a reminder that there are a lot of things in life that end up that way.

That's why I stress the wants versus needs. I need to lose weight for my health -- I may want Cindy's body, but I'm not sure I can get that.

Did I give that impression?

If so, sorry.

I of all people will be the first to say we're all bound by our genetic proclivities. No amount of training or diet will change this fact. We all have the potential to look absolutely phenomenal within the confines of these genetic limits.

I don't think you said it outright, but it seemed like a linear argument. Like I said above, sometimes those things aren't linear. Losing weight doesn't guarantee a perfect body -- hence my question about if even when I'm thinner, if I'll be healthier or if I won't... how much are the two correlated?

I know that either way, thinness doesn't guarantee complete health, but at least it'll get me one step closer with the PCOS -- colds, infections, other things may require other changes in my life or just dumb luck!

Some people excel from this point. [once they realize they are fat]

Some don't.

My interest is with those who don't.

I don't know if I will, so I want to continue this conversation, in the hopes that I'm on the right track.

WineDeer wrote: I think the question is more about how do you formulate the desire for something that you never thought you needed (in my case)? How do you change you thought patterns to adapt to your new reality? How do you take the first step into an unknown world?

Any suggestions? Obviously there's no right or wrong answer and from what I gather, you don't so much fall into the category of people I'm talking about. I'm still interested in your thoughts though.

The people you're talking about might fall into this category. If they've never known another reality, how can they formulate the desire for it?

I don't know. My own actions might indicate a path, but it's a convoluted one.

I first had to admit that there was a problem. Then I had to figure out what is the problem -- in my case, it was a lack of education, finding it hard to find the education, facing medical complications (PCOS), trial and error for the food and the exercise, education for understanding the human body and how it processes food and the chemicals it creates in that process and how it affects my body, and then finally (at least until now) sucking it up and recognizing that I have to do this, because no one else is going to do it for me.

So much the same way people still feel fat after losing hundreds of pounds and looking great, you still were living with a skinny body in mind even though reality was different?

It's like the mind is always playing catch up to reality, huh.

Yeah. For me it was pictures -- seeing hundreds of pictures where I looked fat. At first, I thought it was the camera. Then the clothes I wore. Then the pose. Finally I realized those pictures were probably telling the truth and I had to come to face reality of my situation.

But it's taken me almost 18 months to figure that out. Crazy, isn't it?

Family support seems to be a critical component in all this. The people who seem to be able to change their beliefs more easily seem to have a common denominator of a strong family that supported and instilled a sort of confidence in them from the very beginning.

Problem rests with those who weren't so fortunate.

Yes and no. I'm luck with my family. They do support me, but they also have a certain set of beliefs that works for them and they wished (hard) that I would also follow that set of beliefs for weight-loss and nutrition.

And I don't think they are wrong, per se. They aren't.

But it's not MY path right now. That's what I struggle with -- finding my own path, when I know it isn't something they follow or even that they know.

Something interesting from my childhood -- you'd think this would be a BENEFIT, but in my case, it wasn't.

My mother controlled the portions we received at home. I was never a fat child or teenager. I learned to eat enough to be a perfectly acceptable weight for my height.

But the problem is, I didn't learn portion control. I learned to eat what was served in front of me. And I am STILL learning how to control portions because my concept of portions came from "whatever-is-on-my-plate".

And this is something that people don't learn in school, don't learn in college, and you have to actively go online and research this in books if you want to know. Restaurants, cafeterias, delivery places, etc., don't teach any of this.


I've enjoyed reading and writing about this too. I could probably go all night.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Family support seems to be a critical component in all this. The people who seem to be able to change their beliefs more easily seem to have a common denominator of a strong family that supported and instilled a sort of confidence in them from the very beginning.

Problem rests with those who weren't so fortunate.

It's that little voice inside people saying "You're not good enough". That's what prevents people from stepping outside their comfort zone.

Thankfully, my parents told me I could do anything I wanted. But I was a bit of a chicken shit as a kid I always played it safe. I never wanted to step outside my comfort zone. That is, until I went to Germany to go to gymnastics school.

I really loved gymnastics, and I wanted to compete at a high level. I couldn't do that here, but I could in Germany (it was West Germany at the time). I was a young teenager, scared shitless, and I didn't speak German very well.

I was way out of my comfort zone. In fact, I was terrified. But somehow those feelings dissipated quite quickly. Within a week, it felt like I'd been there forever. Things were happening for me; life was good; I came to the realization I was going to be OK

That was a major turning point in my life, because it finally hit me that we all have the ability to adapt much more quickly than our minds think we can and that our minds can often place unhealthy parameters on our abilities and impede our personal development and progress. Steve already said this; I'm just saying it differently

 

[i_love_muscle]

Your fear of the unknown and your fear of failure is far more real to you than any pleasure you could possibly mentally attach to your goals. That is, if you don't take conscious control of your habitual thought patterns.

I also believe you need to ensure your subconscious mind is on the same page as your conscious mind, because your subconscious mind is a far more powerful tool in the long run since that's where all those little voices are coming from that can ultimately prevent you from attaining your goal.

The fact is, more often than not, we need to be pushed out of our comfort zone in order to grow or do something beneficial for ourselves. Unfortunately, not everybody is able to push themselves and they want people to help push them to start the process. But in order to succeed, the drive and the will must come from within the individual.

I have a standard response for people who think they don't have will power: "Exercise your will power and it will get stronger". The more a person uses it, the easier it gets to use it.

When those same people think they don't have what it takes to attain their goals, I always ask "Do you have what it takes to regret for the rest of your life not doing what you need to do today?" At the very least, they'll think about it

 

[jzthedetermined]

Great stuff in here! I think it's a question that has many different answers for many different people. Is it what you owe yourself, what you deserve, what you want, what you beleive, what you feel you need to earn??? Who knows, and which one comes first? Is it a feeling of "I deserve more" that gets some people motivated? Probably some. Is it a thought of "if I really want it, it will happen"? Not a firm beleiver in this, my dad has an old saying... "want in one hand, poop in the other, and see which one fills up first"! Is it a matter of beleiving in something that makes it a reality? Or should it be a beleif in your own actions to attain what you are after you should beleive in??? Lots of questions, lots of answers. For me, it was a matter of being driven to return to a "state" that I once was. Now, I know it's about proving to myself who I actually am... I think I deserve my outcomes, because of work ethic, and a strong beleif in the actions I am taking to make this happen. Finding knowledge and enlightenment along the way sure helps!! I guess what I mean, is that it has to be a FEW of these factors that contribute to you eventually getting what you have earned! Again, great stuff. If there was someone who had all the answers, and was capable of sharing that knowledge with people... MULTI MILLIONAIRE!!! Even if the currency was just extreme thanks and appreciation.

 

[i_love_muscle]

Yeah. For me it was pictures -- seeing hundreds of pictures where I looked fat. At first, I thought it was the camera. Then the clothes I wore. Then the pose. Finally I realized those pictures were probably telling the truth and I had to come to face reality of my situation.

But it's taken me almost 18 months to figure that out. Crazy, isn't it?

...

But it's not MY path right now. That's what I struggle with -- finding my own path, when I know it isn't something they follow or even that they know.

It's not as crazy as you think. Our perception dictates our reality. Until the perception changes, the reality never will.

You will find your own path. I did. Nobody in my immediate or extended family is into exercise or fitness.

Both my parents smoked. My father was an alcoholic (albeit while maintaining the alter ego of a successful businessman). My mother had two heart attacks when she was 55. She survived and quit smoking. She is fat. My sister is fat.

My father was skinny. He smoked a pack or two of cigarettes a day, survived two bouts of cancer, and drank a 26 of Scotch every day. Believe it or not, his lifestyle didn't kill him. He died from an abdominal aortic aneurism at the age of 81 (those are genetic). I honestly don't know how he survived everything else. Perhaps his body was so toxic, nothing could really take hold of him for very long.

I chose my path because I really didn't want to be like my parents. That might sound nasty, but they were of great value to me as what NOT to do! That gave me the strength to do what I did and what I continue to do now

You have to believe that what you are doing is right for you. It doesn't matter what your family is doing or eating. It is irrelevant to your goals. This is all about your journey and what is right for YOU.