Parents disapprove creatine use

[skld]

Hello,

So I want to purchase Creatine (I'm 17) but here's the deal, my parents are extremely close-minded and in our family there have been multiple incidents were one would get too involved with drugs (I'm talking cocaine and stuff here, not pharmacy drugs) with unpleasant endings. To make things worse, my mother has physical therapy (bad back and shoulders) from a 26-year-old women that is even more close-minded. They get along really well and of course my mother chats about me as well, and how I really liked fitness. Then she told me all the bs the therapist said and how she emphasized that I should never ever drink protein shakes and asked my mother if I already had with a lot of yaddayaddaya and **** about whey protein. My mother told me this when I asked for some money to put on my fitness club card (I sometimes drink stuff there like juice).

To make things worse, our doctor/GP is also close-minded and quite old and would definitely not be a convincer. Also, he is a good friend of our family as well so they just have to ask "can you say XXX to my son" etc. Seems pretty hopeless to me.

So I was attempting to gain some rapport with my mother (she's the main block) and my uncle (the 2nd main block) by trying them to get to try a liver flush. Both my uncle and mother have a lot of stones in their liver/bladder and their liver is toxicated (this has been diagnosed by a professional). Whenever they try to drink water for example they get this acid coming up via their throat from their stomach. I tried explaining them why and why water is good as it is neutral and thus creates a more alkaline environment etc. but they don't listen.

Now my mother has to go to the hospital to get her stones removed (it's not as severe with my uncle so he doesn't have to) but she keeps delaying it, like my grandma who eventually went wayyy too late. I believe she has delayed it for circa 10 months now so I want to try her to have a liver flush with me. The problem is that any name that is not "applejuice" or "cake" (if you get what I'm saying) is associated with drugs. If I tell them they need to take EPSOM salts they go "omgdrugzzzz" and if I tell them they need to take magnesium sulfate they go "omgdrugzzzz" as well because they won't take anything that they can't pronoune and has not been prescribed to them by a doctor.

Also, does anyone know a good movie we could watch together about a child not being taken seriously and ended up being right? Chicken Little is a good movie for example which I watched yesterday with my girlfriend but I was thinking of movies where this motive is really big, and preferably with real persons.

Just buying the creatine is not an option as there's nowhere to hide the jar of creatine + it's "expensive" (relatively when compared to other items, not to other creatine. This creatine is 100% pure creatine monohydrate (which is even better than CreaPure's 99,6%) and dirt cheap). If I can convince my parents (well, really only my mother and uncle as the rest like my father just goes "ask your mother" and delivers zero input even when asked to) they will pay for it.

So... Any ideas? And thanks in advance.

 

[Excder]

ok, i think u might be asking that question on the wrong board first of all. (the proboblem with parents part).

but secondly, u dont need cretine man, truth to be know that shuff is bad for ya. Just workout, eatright(the key right there) and ull get bigger.

 

[Karky]

where did you get your info on creatine being bad for you? While i agree you dont need creatine, its not bad. Creatine is one of the most researched suppliments out there, and nothing really indicates that it can be dangeoraus.

 

[skld]

ok, i think u might be asking that question on the wrong board first of all. (the proboblem with parents part).

but secondly, u dont need cretine man, truth to be know that shuff is bad for ya. Just workout, eatright(the key right there) and ull get bigger.

Sorry to be blunt but if I want these type of replies I would have a convo with my parents or I would have asked something in my opening post resembling things like "do I need creatine". I'm pretty much aware that I don't 'need' creatine but it's safe to assume that I have already done enough thinking and research to conclude that I want to use creatine, for what reason(s) is irrelevant.

 

[sexanoe]

just wait another year when you are 18 and can move out and eat all the creatine you want

 

[bipennate]

where did you get your info on creatine being bad for you? While i agree you dont need creatine, its not bad. Creatine is one of the most researched suppliments out there, and nothing really indicates that it can be dangeoraus.

x2

To the OP: the best advice that I could give would be to research the literature to show your parents...it may not persuade them, but at least you tried with a rational, thoughtful argument...a simple google search will come up with literally tens of thousands of studies, papers, articles and even books about the safety of creatine.

You can start here, an exceptionally comprehensive paper about creatine (written by a professor at my Alma Matter, Rutgers):

The more important part of the article, for you:

Potential Side Effects of Creatine Supplementation



Few formal toxicity studies have been carried out to evaluate potential side-effects of creatine supplementation (Benzi & Ceci, 2001). Creatine supplements are not well-controlled with respect to contaminants. For example, commercial creatine monohydrate may contain variable amounts of dicyandiamide, dihydrotrizines, creatinine, and ions. Creatine also is mostly commonly isolated from bovine tissues; due to fears of bovine spongiform encephalopathy, French authorities forbade the sale of products containing creatine.



Athletes often consume 20 grams of creatine monohydrate per day for several weeks before and during intensive training and some have taken 10 grams per day of creatine for many months or even years. Poortmans & Francaux (2000) points out that despite multiple media reports of adverse effects of creatine supplement, there is no well-documented report of adverse effects of creatine supplements. The only change that has been more or less consistently found by many groups is an increase in fat-free body mass (Mihic, et al. 2000). Gastrointestinal disturbances and muscle cramps have been reported occasionally in healthy individuals and several wrestlers who have died or have complications from dehydration have taken creatine although the connection to creatine is not clear. Although anecdotal reports of liver or kidney dysfunction have been suggested, no study has shown such effects in small cohorts of athletes that have taken a month or more of creatine supplements (Poortmans, et al. 1997).



The cause of the increase in body mass associated with creatine supplementation is not well-understood. Saab, et al. (2002) recently used magnetic resonance spectroscopy to assess muscles in subjects that took 20 grams per day of creatine for five days, compared against placebo controls. They found changes consistent with increases in intracellular water. Parise, et al., (2001) showed that creatine supplementation increased total and phosphocreatine in muscles but did not increase protein synthetic rate measured from leucine uptake but reduced leucine oxidation (-20%) and plasma leucine appearance in men but not in women, suggesting that creatine may have anticatabolic actions on some proteins in men. Because several studies have shown increased side-products of muscle metabolism and greater intracellular water content of muscles, and there have been some dehydration deaths in wrestlers taking creatine, it is a good idea to drink plenty of water with the creatine.



Schilling, et al. (2001) assessed the long-term safety effects of supplementing athletes with about 10 grams per day for 0.8-1.0 years and >1.0 years, compared against placebo. Blood chemistry, clinical examinations, and hormonal levels were measured, as well as body mass, body composition, and resting heart rate and blood pressure. Long-term creatine supplementation did not change any of the measured parameters beyond normal limits although it did increase blood creatinine and total protein levels. Kreider, et al. (1998) assessed the effects of a mixture of 15.75 grams per day of creatine phosphate on 25 NCAA division IA football players, matched against similar players that received a placebo without creatine. They found significant increases in body mass, fat/bone-free body mass, gains in bench press lifting and other weight-lifting performance, and sprint performance but no change in hematological parameters nor subjective side-effects. Volek, et al. (2001) tested the effects of creatine supplement on men undergoing repeated sprint cycle performance in heat and found no evidence of adverse symptoms including muscle cramps. Likewise, Volek, et al. (2000) found no effect of heavy resistance training and creatine supplementation on blood lipids.



In doses of 20 g/day, creatine supplementation appears to be well tolerated by people with a variety of disorders over periods of several weeks. For example, creatine monohydrate had no significant deleterious effects on exercise performance, eye movements, or activities of daily living in people with mitochondrial disease (Klopstock, et al. 2000). Acute creatine loading increases fat-free mass but apparently does not affect blood pressure, plasma creatine levels, or creatine kinase activity in men and women (Mihic, et al., 2000). It does not affect growth hormone levels (Op’t ijnd & Hespel, 2002) or blood lipids (Volek, et al. 2000).
Conclusions



Creatine is an important energy substrates for the muscle and brain. Many randomized studies have provided suggestive data that creatine enhances athletic performance. Short periods of creatine supplementation does not seem to increase endurance or aerobic performance. However, much evidence indicate that creatine supplementation improves performance of repeated bouts of short and intense strength exercises.



Creatine supplementation may facilitate rehabilitation of neurological conditions and muscular atrophy. One study indicated that creatine monohydrate for a week increased oxygen consumption, produced greater carbon dioxide output, and improved respiratory tidal volumes in people with spinal cord injury. Another suggested that creatine supplements retards or reverses rebuilding of atrophied muscles associated with leg casting. Creatine also has significant beneficial effects in patients who have creatine deficiency.



The optimal dose and duration of creatine supplementation depends on the individual. The body synthesizes creatine and meat contains relatively high concentrations of creatine. The daily body turnover of creatine is 2-4 grams. There is no evidence that creatine intake greater than 20-30 g/day has any additional beneficial effects of creatine uptake by muscle or performance. A 5-7 days period of high-dose (20 gram/day) creatine followed by a maintainance dose of 5 grams of creatine per day during the exercise period is reasonable.



Orally ingested creatine is taken up by muscle. The creatine does not appear to stimulate protein synthesis although one study suggested that the creatine may stimulate muscle satellite cells to produce more cells. The creatine is phosphorylated in the muscle. Creatine is also taken up by other tissues where it may exert a number of other effects, including improvement of oxygen consumption and reduction of blood lipids.



Creatine has major effects on the brain and the heart. In patients who might be short of creatine or have a disease that reduces creatine levels, creatine supplement may have dramatic effects. Creatine and creatine analogs also have been reported to have anti-tumor effects. In particular, an analog of real-time called cyclocreatine appears to increase Na and death of tumor cells.



Despite its important role in energy metabolism in many tissues, creatine supplementation has had remarkably consistent safety record. Athletes often consume 20 grams of creatine monohydrate per day for weeks, months, and even years without any well-substantiated report of adverse side-effects. Although anecdotal reports of muscle cramps and hormonal effects abound, controlled clinical studies have not reported such effects.



Thus, creatine appears to be a relatively safe dietary supplement that may facilitate rehabilitation of atrophied muscles and enhance exercise therapies. Side effects are minimal perhaps because the creatine-loaded tissues do not take up additional creatine. Creatine does not affect growth hormone or other hormones and there is no convincing data that it causes kidney or liver damage.

 

[Excder]

ok, ur right, its not "bad" for you. but.....how many of yall use it right now or have used it and seen like, no results. thats the thing i think, people that iv talked to that have used it all say that they didnt see any big increase or anything and like just doin it the old fassion way. i dont want anything going into my body that....

"Gastrointestinal disturbances and muscle cramps have been reported occasionally in healthy individuals and several wrestlers who have died or have complications from dehydration have taken creatine although the connection to creatine is not clear. Although anecdotal reports of liver or kidney dysfunction have been suggested, no study has shown such effects in small cohorts of athletes that have taken a month or more of creatine supplements (Poortmans, et al. 1997). " eh? yeah

 

[Karky]

some wont respond to creatine, but its sheap, so why not try it?

Most of the side effects of creatine are just from dehydration, you have to drink alot of water when your on creatine, something you should be doing from before anyhow, water is important.

 

[goergen1]

how many of yall use it right now or have used it and seen like, no results.

I have used creatine and had great results. The delivery system is the most important. Products that I like are CellTech by MuscleTech and Attack by Scitec Nutrition.

"Gastrointestinal disturbances and muscle cramps have been reported occasionally in healthy individuals and several wrestlers who have died or have complications from dehydration have taken creatine although the connection to creatine is not clear.

As it said. The connection to creatine is not clear. The dehydration is mostly due to not drinking enough water. Creatine is also in meat. So if you do not want any you can stop eating that too.

The reality is that taking extra creatine can help to increase the length of time of the ATP-CP energy system. Which is where the result will come from. If you have not planned your training for this you will have less results.

skld - parents always condemn things they do not understand. If they do not want to learn about what you are doing they will never change their opinions. What did I do at your age? I just went out and bought what I wanted, and used it. If they did not like it tough. (that being said my father and I almost came to blows on several occasions) I think we get along better now that boundaries have been set.

 

[mike79]

protein and creatine are good for u, creatine is naturally produced, and protein shakes are like eating liquid chickens.

 

[LeiYunFat]

You sound like a smart guy...If you've done the best explaining and leveling you can do, then...just do it anyway. Epsom salt MgSO4=drugs? LOL

 

[Hardgainer17]

I just started using creatine also. Trust me I did my research on it too. You don't need creatine but if you want it and you feel it safe for you and your body, which it absolutly is, then go ahead and buy a bottle. It won't harm you and if you don't like it then just stop using it or switch to a different brand. Simple as that. Like many people said above you must drink a lot of water with it. If you don't wrost case sceniro, is dehydration. other symptons are upset stomach,vomiting, and the runs ha.

 

[Karky]

protein shakes are like eating liquid chickens.

lol that was a bit funny

 

[LeiYunFat]

True, whey protein is kind of like cheese protein. It's like fat-free chocolate flavored cheese. If you tell your parents that, they'll have to let you...because who doesn't love cheese? I bet those druggies will want some too.

 

[skld]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm pretty up to date research-wise except on whey protein. I don't feel that I have enough knowledge about it to go out and buy it - there are tons and tons of brands and things that are added to the whey protein, are there any specific things I should watch for, any specific ingredients that should be there and should not be there?

Also, about the creatine:

I have used creatine and had great results. The delivery system is the most important. Products that I like are CellTech by MuscleTech and Attack by Scitec Nutrition

Is there any natural thing that is easy to acquire so you can deliver it? Most brands are unavailable over-the-counter... I'm limited to over-the-counter products.

Thx in advance.

 

[goergen1]

You can take it with grape juice or something along those lines. Personally I never had the results from that though.

 

[Danger_Dave]

Did you point out that creatine is non addictive and legal? you know unlike weed and cocaine.

I already replied on your thread about starting weight training. Since you are begnining weight training, you really don't need creatine. Creatine may be something you use when you are plateauing. It isn't really necessary for you. But it's your choice.

 

[Tanizaki]

So I was attempting to gain some rapport with my mother (she's the main block) and my uncle (the 2nd main block) by trying them to get to try a liver flush. Both my uncle and mother have a lot of stones in their liver/bladder and their liver is toxicated (this has been diagnosed by a professional). Whenever they try to drink water for example they get this acid coming up via their throat from their stomach. I tried explaining them why and why water is good as it is neutral and thus creates a more alkaline environment etc. but they don't listen.

Why are you trying to convince people to get liver flushes? It is a quack treatment. Having a "colon blow" in no way removes stones from the gallbladder or liver.

Your relatives have "toxicated" (intoxicated? toxic?) livers, as diagnosed by a professional, but a professional what? Hydrotherapist? Colon cleanser? Shaman? Certainly not a medical doctor.

Now my mother has to go to the hospital to get her stones removed (it's not as severe with my uncle so he doesn't have to) but she keeps delaying it, like my grandma who eventually went wayyy too late. I believe she has delayed it for circa 10 months now so I want to try her to have a liver flush with me.

What "stones" does she have? As I just explained, liver flushes are quack treatments. They do nothing.

The problem is that any name that is not "applejuice" or "cake" (if you get what I'm saying) is associated with drugs. If I tell them they need to take EPSOM salts they go "omgdrugzzzz" and if I tell them they need to take magnesium sulfate they go "omgdrugzzzz" as well because they won't take anything that they can't pronoune and has not been prescribed to them by a doctor.

It seems that everyone in the family is misinformed, just about different things. The Epsom salts make sure that you will have "stones" to poop out, as they form a film around the oil (usually olive oil) that is invariably part of the liver flush quackery.

Also, does anyone know a good movie we could watch together about a child not being taken seriously and ended up being right? Chicken Little is a good movie for example which I watched yesterday with my girlfriend but I was thinking of movies where this motive is really big, and preferably with real persons.

As a parent, I don't think there is any movie my child could show me that would make me "see the light" regarding my rules for him as if I was Saul in Damascus. However, Big Trouble in Little China is one of my favorite movies. Try that one.

So... Any ideas? And thanks in advance.

My idea is that you only undergo treatments of medical science, not alternative quackery.

 

[Conan Stevens]

The problem is probably that it is a white powder like all those bad drugs like cocaine, ketamine, nappysan, flour, talcum powder - you know how closed minds think.

Give you mum the choice either it's Creatine or you're gonna stack hGH, Testosterone, Insulin, Pain Killers, Diuretics and Synthol - watch her freak out just for the fun of it.

But then my mum kicked me out so maybe don't listen to my advice, nah I was right!

 

[Tanizaki]

The problem is probably that it is a white powder like all those bad drugs like cocaine, ketamine, nappysan, flour, talcum powder - you know how closed minds think.

Give you mum the choice either it's Creatine or you're gonna stack hGH, Testosterone, Insulin, Pain Killers, Diuretics and Synthol - watch her freak out just for the fun of it.

But then my mum kicked me out so maybe don't listen to my advice, nah I was right!

I thought you were really good in Bodyguard 2.