Obesity Educator With Questions

[Educator]

In your world this might be the only question that remains.

But that's b/c of what you label as suicide.

It's (obesity) is a much deeper and more complex issue than simply labeling it as, "Fat people choose to kill themselves by eating gluttonously."

You sound like a former member here (who didn't last long b/c of his refusal to look outside the confines of his own perceptions) who went by the name of ChuckRoast.

I hope you're him b/c he was quite a bit of fun.

I have a question for you. Suppose researchers found a 100% correlation between the air we breathe on Earth and cancer.

What then in the context of your beliefs?



On what planet do you live?

Support this with real data.

Can I ask you how many people you personally know who have crashed a car b/c of their obesity?

I'll open that question up to anyone here actually.

When you answer that truthfully, you might begin to see how whacked your perceptions are. Then again, I'm doubtful.



I ask again, how have you been personally affected by obesity?

I'm sure you'll blunt out something like healthcare costs but that's just a stupid argument as the healthcare system in itself is completely whacked in this country.



Of course not.

But I don't pretend that those decisions made by said glutton have an impact on my life to the extent that I'd feel the need to stand up on a pedestal and preach about sending them to a mental institution for my own safety and well-being.

In fact, if I did, I'd probably concern myself with my own commitment to an institution long before anyone else's.

I'd also add that just b/c it's irresponsible doesn't allow you the right to judge something in such binary terms as you are. You like black. Yes. And you sure like white. No doubt. It's too bad most of like is in the gray.

If you went around and rid society of all those who acted irresponsibly, you'd be left with about 0 people.

If you're claiming that you've never acted irresponsibly, you're either a liar or a bore.

Here is a medical definition of suicide and a like to it.
The act of causing ones own death is suicide. Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect. Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.

Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building.



The act of eating one's self to death day after day and year after year is indeed slow suicide.

You are putting words in my mouth Steve. Fat people are not choosing to kill themselves with their gluttony. They are choosing to ignore the consequences of their gluttonous behavior Their suicide is therefore involuntary and negative like the person who refuses to leave a burning building.

Are you saying this forum banned a member because he expressed views that people here did not like? What did ChuckRoast say that got him tossed? That sounds unfair and a bit fascist to me....banning someone for not thinking the way you think he should. Maybe he needed help with his obesity and his understanding of it and you guys banned him because he didn't see things your way? Not everyone is comfortable goose stepping.

As for the rest of what you said; there are simply too many diversions, smoke screens, red herrings and straw men for be to deal with so let's cut through the BS. You are an fitness trainer and weight loss coach, well so am I. What do you tell some 300 pound client who claims to eat only 900 calories per day and then claims they are still gaining weight? Do you indulge their nonsensical BS? You do realize they are lying through their teeth and if they truly believe what they are saying than they are quite delusional and perhaps a good candidate for a vacation at the funny farm.

When is get a client who is trying to BS me I ask them to prove their BS. They get a little Physics 101 and I make them account for the energy required too heat their body, power their muscles, run their heart and lungs, run their digestive system ect.. It doesn't matter to me why they are lying through their teeth but if I do not confront their BS and make them uncomfortable lying to me and insulting my intelligence with such feeble malarkey but instead indulge them with the "building muscle will speed up your" BMR garbage. I am setting them up for certain failure. When I am face to face with one of them they hem and haw and eventually the fess up. Once they run out of the BS they usually do very well. I teach them how to hold themselves accountable. That is not easy when the diet industry tells them diets fail when in fact it is they who failed.

I will answer some of your BS Steve.

There is a correlation between air and cancer. So what?

Binary? Look up the definition for the context in which you are using it.

Health care is a mess in the US because of greed and arrogance. Gluttony is a product of greed and arrogance and gluttony is about more than food. Like our population our health care is bloated, arrogant, greedy, self serving and ignorant. The obesity epidemic is making an already horrible health care system even worse. Like many other easily preventable diseases, obesity is helping to line the pockets of our greedy and mercenary health care system.

The behavior of the obese negatively impacts upon everyone. The US Surgeon General Dr Carmona calls obesity a bigger threat to national security than al qeda. The list of how it negatively impact everyone is so long that it would fill a book.

I am not advocating ridding society of fat people and you know that so don't say I am. I would like to get people to take their health and citizenship seriously.

I do not chronically behave irresponsibly. Over eaters do.

 

[Educator]

ha ha ha .....

Educator your threads are very entertaining..

Are you sure you dont want to change that username.....

ha ha ha..

For better replies maybe you should look at the manner in which you have posted.. Most people on this forum are here for support and guidance.. Their journeys and thoughts are personal and sincere.. NB: i said MOST not ALL.... Unfortunatley there is nothing personal or supportive about your posts.. If there is a message that you truly believe you need to communicate to us maybe you should change your bedside manner..

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar...

Then why do you feel the need to respond?

I tell people what they need to hear not what they want to hear.

BTW, I swat flies.

 

[Educator]

well as a spokes person for well.. der myself ha ha ha and those i know, i have not and they have not had a car accident because we were obese/overweight.. no accidents have been caused by any factor relating to weight..oh but wait.. a gentlemen friend of mine was overweight and he was driving down the freeway (100km/h) when a cyclist decided he could make it across the 4 lanes of traffic and rode straight into the side of his car across the bonnet and into the windshield then on to the other oncoming lane.. Maybe in hindsight that was his fault.. he was fat...?

ha ha ha ha.... shit can you imagine the premiums for insurance if that was the case..... not mention personal liability... as if recent activities beyond our control havent jacked the prices on everything already we now have the fat brigade... bloody hell....

Fat people have slower reaction times. They tend to drive big clumsy cars that do more damage. They often eat while driving. It would not surprise me if they had more car crashes than responsible people.

 

[Gator1]

Wow. At this whole thread. Everyone here is feeding the troll and he just comes back with more and more bullshit. I've seen toe jam make more sense than this "educator". How can someone who claims to be an "educator" base so many of his conclusions on stereotypes and generalizations? Fat people have slower reaction times? WTF, I have a faster reaction time than most of my coworkers. Fat people are fat because of some psychological issue? Seriously? Hello, is there anyone is that dense and fat head of yours? I think it's about time this guy stops stirring the pot and that he is banned. It's quite obvious that this is his agenda here on this board.

 

[maleficent]

Fat people have slower reaction times. They tend to drive big clumsy cars that do more damage. They often eat while driving. It would not surprise me if they had more car crashes than responsible people.

teenagers have more car crashes than whomever those responsible people are... so can we put all teenagers in a cell until they become responsible? or people?

What about people who fiddle with the radio, or talk on cell phones, or yell at the kids in the back seat... those are all distractions that can cause problems...

 

[Steve]

Here is a medical definition of suicide and a like to it.
The act of causing ones own death is suicide. Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect. Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.

Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building.



The act of eating one's self to death day after day and year after year is indeed slow suicide.

Do you even grasp the concept that you're spewing? How many people are committing suicide by your standards each and every day?

Those who choose to be sedentary are suicidal.

Those who choose to smoke cigarettes and do drugs are suicidal.

Those who choose to speed or suicidal.

On and on it goes.

It may be indirect suicide as they aren't choosing to kill themselves... instead they're choosing to ignore the outcomes of their actions. But by your views, they should be locked up.

I know you feel high and mighty with your preachings, but many of your viewpoints are very myopic. Some are good. Simple but good. Many are myopic.

You are putting words in my mouth Steve. Fat people are not choosing to kill themselves with their gluttony. They are choosing to ignore the consequences of their gluttonous behavior Their suicide is therefore involuntary and negative like the person who refuses to leave a burning building.

Where did I put words in your mouth?

Don't point fingers with no reference please. I can see you've not liked others doing this to you in this very thread.

Are you saying this forum banned a member because he expressed views that people here did not like? What did ChuckRoast say that got him tossed? That sounds unfair and a bit fascist to me....banning someone for not thinking the way you think he should. Maybe he needed help with his obesity and his understanding of it and you guys banned him because he didn't see things your way? Not everyone is comfortable goose stepping.

Don't paint pictures you have no knowledge about.

It makes you look desperate and pathetic.

As for the rest of what you said; there are simply too many diversions, smoke screens, red herrings and straw men for be to deal with so let's cut through the BS.

That's convenient.

You are an fitness trainer and weight loss coach, well so am I. What do you tell some 300 pound client who claims to eat only 900 calories per day and then claims they are still gaining weight?

They're lying to me and to themselves.

I do it pretty much daily around here. If you got off your soapbox you might realize this.

Do you indulge their nonsensical BS?

Nope.

You do realize they are lying through their teeth and if they truly believe what they are saying than they are quite delusional and perhaps a good candidate for a vacation at the funny farm.

Agreed.

I'll also repeat what I said earlier:

I don't pretend that those decisions made by said glutton have an impact on my life to the extent that I'd feel the need to stand up on a pedestal and preach about sending them to a mental institution for my own safety and well-being.

In fact, if I did, I'd probably concern myself with my own commitment to an institution long before anyone else's.

When is get a client who is trying to BS me I ask them to prove their BS.

As do I.

They get a little Physics 101 and I make them account for the energy required too heat their body, power their muscles, run their heart and lungs, run their digestive system ect..

Almost identical to my own methods.

It doesn't matter to me why they are lying through their teeth but if I do not confront their BS and make them uncomfortable lying to me and insulting my intelligence with such feeble malarkey but instead indulge them with the "building muscle will speed up your" BMR garbage. I am setting them up for certain failure. When I am face to face with one of them they hem and haw and eventually the fess up. Once they run out of the BS they usually do very well.

lol

That's laughable.

It's funny how our approaches are almost identical yet, magically, you're 'clients' when confronted with the truth of thermodynamics undo all of their neural programming from years and years in one swell swoop and successfully lose weight.

Get real.

I teach them how to hold themselves accountable. That is not easy when the diet industry tells them diets fail when in fact it is they who failed.

As do I.

In truth, it seems we have very similar methods.

Unfortunately your delivery of said message is atrocious.

It's misdirected too.

I've spent years delivering the very same message to this community. As have others. And that brings us full circle to my initial point that your super awesome research doesn't apply to this community or my clientèle.

So why are you directing it here?

The masses are the ones who are being misguided by faulty, corrupt advertisers. They're the ones who are being enabled by con artists. Not niche communities such as this.

So why not direct your attention there to prove your point instead of someplace that obviously doesn't need it?

Answer this please.

 

[LowFatMilk]

teenagers have more car crashes than whomever those responsible people are... so can we put all teenagers in a cell until they become responsible? or people?

What about people who fiddle with the radio, or talk on cell phones, or yell at the kids in the back seat... those are all distractions that can cause problems...

Lock up the "experts" and "educators" please.
They're too irresponsible to be allowed into society.
Have them committed until their heads are fixed, and their habits are changed.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Here is a medical definition of suicide and a like to it.
The act of causing ones own death is suicide. Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect. Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.

Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building.



The act of eating one's self to death day after day and year after year is indeed slow suicide.

You are putting words in my mouth Steve. Fat people are not choosing to kill themselves with their gluttony. They are choosing to ignore the consequences of their gluttonous behavior Their suicide is therefore involuntary and negative like the person who refuses to leave a burning building.

If you would've looked, you would've seen that I already posted the exact definition of suicide. I'm glad you chose to ignore that and anything else I said. But, just so I can, once again, show you how wrong you are, THIS is the exact definition of suicide...

Suicide, by defintion, is...

Pronunciation: \?sü-?-?s?d\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin sui (genitive) of oneself + English -cide; akin to Old English & Old High German s?n his, Latin suus one's own, sed, se without, Sanskrit sva oneself, one's own
Date: 1643
1 a: the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind b: ruin of one's own interests <political suicide> c: apoptosis <cell suicide>
2: one that commits or attempts suicide

You can't unwillingly or unknowingly commit suicide. If I'm speeding down the road at 95MPH, knowing damn well how dangerous it could be, and one of my tires blows out, causing me to get into a deadly accident that kills me, that doesn't mean that I committed suicide. Just because you know of the potential danger that could result from your actions, doesn't mean that you are committing suicide.

If somebody goes skydiving and their parachute doesn't open, would you say that they committed suicide too? I mean, they knew how dangerous it could be to jump out of a plane, right?

If somebody is allergic to bees and they go walking through the woods one day, get stung by a bee and die, would you say that they committed suicide too? I mean, they knew how dangerous it could be to go outside and potentially get stung, right?

Also, not all people that are overweight know of the dangers that can come with severe obesity. You might say to yourself, "how can you NOT know?" Well, you don't even know the definition of suicide, so....

 

[Gator1]

If you would've looked, you would've seen that I already posted the exact definition of suicide. I'm glad you chose to ignore that and anything else I said. But, just so I can, once again, show you how wrong you are, THIS is the exact definition of suicide...



You can't unwillingly or unknowingly commit suicide. If I'm speeding down the road at 95MPH, knowing damn well how dangerous it could be, and one of my tires blows out, causing me to get into a deadly accident that kills me, that doesn't mean that I commited suicide. Just because you know of the potential danger that could result from your actions, doesn't mean that you are commiting suicide.

If somebody goes skydiving and their parachute doesn't open, would you say that they commited suicide too? I mean, they knew how dangerous it could be to jump out of a plane, right?

If somebody is allergic to bees and they go walking through the woods one day, get stung by a bee and die, would you say that they commited suicide too? I mean, they knew how dangerous it could be to go outside and potentially get stung, right?

Also, not all people that are overweight know of the dangers that can come with severe obesity. You might say to yourself, "how can you NOT know?" Well, you don't even know the definition of suicide, so....

Man, This educator person just got some serious 1st degree burns by you

+1 Good job!

 

[oLUX]

Why are you guys even enabling the fool? Waste of your time.

 

[fatguy23]

@ Educator

If you don't like the thought of fat people driving your kid to school and you don't like the bullshit argument of obese people raising health care costs, i've a few suggestions for you.

1. Don't reproduce, don't think anyone here would fault you for that.

2. Feel free to leave the country/state/county/city where you reside.

You are looking for attention and I'm glad that you're getting it, because in reality this is all going to come full circle for you in the substance of a psychiatrist's bill here in a few years, I'm betting that a fat person (I say fat because I am) beat you out for a job, took ur girl, married ur mom and then didnt hug you enough when you were little, etc...whatever it is, no one here is interested in your uneducated drivel, people are responding to you because it is their nature to try and help unfortunate, misguided souls such as yourself...regardless, I am responding to you because I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading your comments in this thread and I just wanted to return the favor a little bit...thanks!

 

[Educator]

Wow. At this whole thread. Everyone here is feeding the troll and he just comes back with more and more bullshit. I've seen toe jam make more sense than this "educator". How can someone who claims to be an "educator" base so many of his conclusions on stereotypes and generalizations? Fat people have slower reaction times? WTF, I have a faster reaction time than most of my coworkers. Fat people are fat because of some psychological issue? Seriously? Hello, is there anyone is that dense and fat head of yours? I think it's about time this guy stops stirring the pot and that he is banned. It's quite obvious that this is his agenda here on this board.

70% of American are fat or obese. That is not a stereotype.

Cars are bigger now to acomodate all the obese people. That is not a stereotype.

People with big heavy thunder thighs can not move from the gas to the brake as quickly as normal people. That is a fact not a stereotype.

People with big bellies are forced to be in an inferior position making it more difficult to see over the hood. That is not a stereotype. It is a fact.

Psychological issue? Prove it! That is a cop out and a convenient excuse. The fact is fat and obese people are no more or no less mentally ill than the general population. In fact they have higher self esteem and that has been proven.

You don't want me banned. You want my ideas, facts and opinion censored because deep down you know I am right. There are many many other thread and discussions going on here. The fact that you chose to engage in this one with someone you are calling a fat head and a troll tells me that you don't believe what you are saying. If everything I am saying is BS then nobody here needs you to point it out to them do they? All you are doing is getting personal and nasty because YOU know I am right and you cannot refute what I am saying so you cry "TROLL". You have every opportunity to prove me wrong and if I am the fat head you say I am that should be easy for a smart guy like you.

You have dishonestly claimed that I am basing "so many things" on stereotypes. If you care about this board and the people here you would point out where I am wrong. The fact is you don't like what I am saying and you can't refute it. Don't go out in the yard if you can't hang with the big dogs.

 

[fatguy23]

Psychological issue? Prove it! That is a cop out and a convenient excuse. The fact is fat and obese people are no more or no less mentally ill than the general population. In fact they have higher self esteem and that has been proven.

yet they need to be in mental institutions?

 

[Educator]

Can maybe take one moment and get off your pedestal and answer direct questions that were thrown at you like the above?

It's cool that you're passionate about your beliefs. And I'll certainly discuss things with you. But only if you acknowledge points that are not your own too.

You have to respect the other side of the fence if a meaningful conversation is to ensue.



And this?



And this?

You asked how I am personally affected by obesity. Here is the short list.

I have a 29" waist and I weigh 150 pounds. It used to be that pants with a 29" waist we common place. Now even 32" waist are rare.

I spend a lot of time in hotels as my job requires much travel. Fat people wreck mattresses. You get an obese couple in a bed there can be well over 1/3 or a TON wrecking a mattress. Material science cannot work miracles.

Being that 70% of Americans are fat or obese their food tastes dictate to restaurants and stores what foods are sold. Healthy food is becoming more scarce. Fat people eat at least 90% of the food that is consumed.

According to a study of national costs attributed to both overweight (BMI 25–29.9) and obesity (BMI greater than 30), medical expenses accounted for 9.1 percent of total U.S. medical expenditures in 1998. It is much much worse now.

A study by the Conference Board has calculated that obesity rates in the U.S have doubled in the past 30 years and that more than a third of Americans now fit the definition of "obese".

And the cost to the economy in lost working days and extra healthcare costs is a staggering $45bn a year, it found.

Obesity, it reported, was responsible for a 36 per cent increase in spending on healthcare services, more than smoking or problem drinking.

Steve, you may be the only one here who will appreciate this article. It is enlightening


Fat people cost everyone more in taxes.

Obesity raises the cost of everything and that impacts upon me every single day.

Obesity cost the private sector 45 BILLION dollars every year.

There is a saying that goes, "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem." I have helped to reform over 20 gluttons in the past year. They have gone on to reform other gluttons. I know... people cringe at the word glutton or gluttony but that is what I use to describe chronic over eating.

I challenge my clients. I challenge everyone here to prove they too are not gluttons. I am not talking some theoretical psycho babble and excuse making. I ask them to convince me with common sense that they are not indeed gluttons. It make them do something they don't do often enough and that is think. When that happens Steve, they drop the usually BS real quick and focus on reality and the task at hand. If they want to dance some shrink or nutritionist around then they would be fools to do it. I really want to help them so I don't let them dance me around. I lead them to what the need to know and I don't just tell them what they want to hear. I know how to get their heads right. When that happens I guide them into learning the the real mecahincs of weight loss. Very often when they stop using food for a crutch they deal with any "emotional or psychological" disorder. What usually happens is they find their real problem was they simply liked food to much and that they like most fat Americans are simply food centric and weak-willed. They end up stronger for it.

 

[Educator]

yet they need to be in mental institutions?

Perhaps not actually loony bins. Something along the lines of boot camp or some other correctional institution. Maybe something like reform school of fat mandatory fat camp.

Maybe parents of fat kids should be fined or jailed but a least they should have to answer to child protective services.

Fat people are not nut jobs. They are just behaving badly.

 

[MissDFITT]

I am not a glutton.

 

[LowFatMilk]

There is a saying that goes, "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem." I have helped to reform over 20 gluttons in the past year. They have gone on to reform other gluttons.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

We'll see how permanent that is. Every fatty can "reform" with a douche bag breathing down their back. Fatties can reform while they're on the Biggest Loser, and in Brookhaven.

But as soon as that environment changes, I bet a good chunk of your fatties will go back to their old ways. You are not motivational, you're a broken record who people have listened to because they want you to stop talking.

I have a 29" waist and I weigh 150 pounds. It used to be that pants with a 29" waist we common place. Now even 32" waist are rare.

And yet, there's room for improvement there.

Steve, you may be the only one here who will appreciate this article. It is enlightening
Obesity costs U.S $45bn a year

You know who else is costing a lot of money and not benefiting you? Iraq! And you know who else? All of the people claiming disability benefits a year. You know what those nasty people with Cystic Fibrosis are doing? They're takin' up all the antibiotics!!! You know what those people with PKU are doing? They're eatin' up all them vegetables! And here they are getting benefits on your dime.

Let's just kill them all. Every fatty, every retard, everyone with a disability, or health issue who is costing money. If you lost your arm in an unfortunate accident and can't work? Dead. If you live in the Middle East? Dead. Old people not working? Dead dead dead. Cremate them all, it's cheaper than paying for caskets. Yessir, then they'll be out of your way. They won't be costing you money, they won't be eating your food, they won't be dirtying your water, hell, less crowds at your favorite amusement parks.

 

[Educator]

If you don't like the thought of fat people driving your kid to school and you don't like the bullshit argument of obese people raising health care costs, i've a few suggestions for you.

1. Don't reproduce, don't think anyone here would fault you for that.

2. Feel free to leave the country/state/county/city where you reside.

You are looking for attention and I'm glad that you're getting it, because in reality this is all going to come full circle for you in the substance of a psychiatrist's bill here in a few years, I'm betting that a fat person (I say fat because I am) beat you out for a job, took ur girl, married ur mom and then didnt hug you enough when you were little, etc...whatever it is, no one here is interested in your uneducated drivel, people are responding to you because it is their nature to try and help unfortunate, misguided souls such as yourself...regardless, I am responding to you because I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading your comments in this thread and I just wanted to return the favor a little bit...thanks!

It would seem that you want to take off the gloves but I don't beat up on the weak.

As to nasty comment one you made. I would not want my daughter to marry a fat guy. She needs to be married to a manly man who cares more about her than he does for food.

As to nasty comment two. I am a good citizen. I give more to society than I take. I behave in a responsible manner and I expect others to behave the same way. Being that I take my citizenship seriously I expect others to take the honor of being a citizen of the US seriously too.

The rest of your rant got really nasty. I am not a competitive person but I do think that about the only thing a fat guy could beat me in is an eating contest. Practice makes perfect.

Actually my wife was married to a big fat nasty lummox who treated her like crap. Hooking up with a guy like me was a no brainer for her. Fat boys are often jealous of men like me.

My father is still more of a man than most men half his age.

Hugs are better than drugs so I guess I got enough because I do not abuse food or drugs.

No one is interested in my "uneducated drivel"? They sure seem to be responding. Usually people who are interested ignore stuff the are not interested in.

You are responding because I hit a nerve.

 

[Educator]

I am not a glutton.

Prove it to me!

 

[lil debi]

Obesity vs Insanity

First of all, people are obese for many reasons. Medical and psychological reasons. Most do not have the break with reality required to deem them insane. You cannot lock a person up for being a danger to themselves for more than the time required to evauluate thier mental health, unless they are found to be insane. This is usually limitted to 72 hours. How much weight can one lose in 72 hours?

In my experience, obese people have problems with self esteem that influence their eating. Berating obese people on this forum does nothing to help that problem.

I have no idea how you think my being obese is any more of a threat to society at large than are your enraging comments. Negativity kills.

I am here to find inspiration to lose weight. It is a constant battle, and there have been times where I ate 1500 calories or less and worked out with a trainer 3 times a week, and on my own 3 times a week, and GAINED fat! After that I gave up. I felt that no one believed me about my efforts. I was called names, as an adult by adults. I reverted to my comfort - food. When I eat, I am not trying to kill myself. I am not committing suicide, as there is no intent.

So here I am trying not to give up again when I run into your ugly, ugly posts.

I have personal experience with having to involuntarily commit someone that I love to an institution for his mental health. That was an horrific event, and the long term consequences are awful. The only reason for it was to save his life and keep him from trying to kill my father.

When you talk about involuntary commitment, think about your closest loved ones. Under what circumstances would you have them physically restrained against their will? You will likely never have a good relationship with them again. They will never trust you. They will have post traumatic stress from having been taken hostage. Their life and yours will be irrevocably changed.

And if you have this done to them, and they are not found to be insane, how will that affect their life and yours? Abduction doesn't strengthen realtionships. Kidnapping doesn't lead to self worth. Holding someone hostage doesn't change their longterm eating habits.