Obesity Educator With Questions

[Educator]

This year 400,000 Americans will eat themselves to death. In the US people who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others can be legally committed to a mental hospital. I am sure most of you know someone who has caused themselves great harm by eating until they became morbidly obese and suffered from the comorbidities that come with obesity.

If you had a loved one who was chronically over eating and endangering his or her well being by doing so would you seek to have person involuntarily committed to a mental institution until they were no longer a danger to them self? If yes why? If no why not?

 

[Steve]

No.

Because there are better ways of going about it.

 

[SonofJorEl]

This year 400,000 Americans will eat themselves to death. In the US people who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others can be legally committed to a mental hospital. I am sure most of you know someone who has caused themselves great harm by eating until they became morbidly obese and suffered from the comorbidities that come with obesity.

If you had a loved one who was chronically over eating and endangering his or her well being by doing so would you seek to have person involuntarily committed to a mental institution until they were no longer a danger to them self? If yes why? If no why not?

Are you going to commit cigarette smokers too?

 

[Educator]

No.

Because there are better ways of going about it.

Could you explain what those ways are? Last I knew 98% of diet attempts end in failure and last time I looked and the data 70% of Americans are overweight or obese. There are 100's of diet books out and all sorts of weight loss products and programs and none of them are working.

Are you suggesting that people be forced to have weight loss surgery? I don't think there are enough bariatric surgeons to do the job.

What about controlling their food intake until they learn to behave responsibly with food?

 

[Educator]

Are you going to commit cigarette smokers too?

Why not? They are a menace.

 

[ChefChiTown]

This year 400,000 Americans will eat themselves to death. In the US people who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others can be legally committed to a mental hospital.

No, that's not true. It's not as easy as "you are a danger to yourself so you're going to a mental hospital". It's a lot more complicated than that.

Not to get all personal, but I tried to kill myself a few years ago. So, technically, I'm a huge danger to myself (or, at least I was). Should I be dragged off and forced into a mental institution? The answer is no and neither should people who choose to eat a lot.

I am sure most of you know someone who has caused themselves great harm by eating until they became morbidly obese and suffered from the comorbidities that come with obesity.

Yeah, 99% of the people on this forum. I guess we're all a bunch of fat crazies that need mental therapy.

If you had a loved one who was chronically over eating and endangering his or her well being by doing so would you seek to have person involuntarily committed to a mental institution until they were no longer a danger to them self? If yes why? If no why not?

The answer is no, as I've already stated. There are a crap load of other reasons that people could be deemed as "a danger to themselves". Gun owners are a danger to themselves and to other people, as they can accidentally shoot themselves or somebody else. People who speed on the highway and run stop signs are a danger to themselves and other people, as they could cause an accident, endangering themselves or somebody else. People who...ah, you get the point. Should all of those people get sent to a mental institution as well? Hell no. Life is dangerous, no matter how much you want to try and control it.

Here's a question, just to spin things around a bit...

If you consider morbidly obese people to be a danger to themselves and others, deeming them as somebody who needs to be put into a mental institution, then what about the people who process, manufacture and make the unhealthy food that those morbidly obese people are eating?

Should every McDonald's employee be institutionalized? I mean, they're endangering the lives of others by serving them heart attack sandwiches.

Should every company that manufactures bacon institutionalize all of their employees? I mean, they're endangering the lives of others by selling them fat-laced bacon.

Should Ben and Jerry be institutionalized? I mean, they're...ahh, once again, you get it.

 

[Educator]

No, that's not true. It's not as easy as "you are a danger to yourself so you're going to a mental hospital". It's a lot more complicated than that.

Not to get all personal, but I tried to kill myself a few years ago. So, technically, I'm a huge danger to myself (or, at least I was). Should I be dragged off and forced into a mental institution? The answer is no and neither should people who choose to eat a lot.



Yeah, 99% of the people on this forum. I guess we're all a bunch of fat crazies that need mental therapy.



The answer is no, as I've already stated. There are a crap load of other reasons that people could be deemed as "a danger to themselves". Gun owners are a danger to themselves and to other people, as they can accidentally shoot themselves or somebody else. People who speed on the highway and run stop signs are a danger to themselves and other people, as they could cause an accident, endangering themselves or somebody else. People who...ah, you get the point. Should all of those people get sent to a mental institution as well? Hell no. Life is dangerous, no matter how much you want to try and control it.

Here's a question, just to spin things around a bit...

If you consider morbidly obese people to be a danger to themselves and others, deeming them as somebody who needs to be put into a mental institution, then what about the people who process, manufacture and make the unhealthy food that those morbidly obese people are eating?

Should every McDonald's employee be institutionalized? I mean, they're endangering the lives of others by serving them heart attack sandwiches.

Should every company that manufactures bacon institutionalize all of their employees? I mean, they're endangering the lives of others by selling them fat-laced bacon.

Should Ben and Jerry be institutionalized? I mean, they're...ahh, once again, you get it.

Unhealthy food, guns ect have the potential to be harmful but they are not a danger.

Gun owners can potentially be a danger to themselves and others but fat people ARE indeed a danger to themselves and others. Chronic gluttony kills over 400,000 people yearly! That is a no brainer.

Choosing to chronically over eat is reckless behavior. Having bacon and eggs, Fast food and junk food in moderate amounts won't kill you but gorging on unhealthy foods chronically is dangerous, reckless and destructive behavior that will lead to premature death.

Almost any food processed or unprocessed has the potential to harm. You can die from drinking too much water. When are person chooses to chronically take in to many calories regardless of the food they are committing suicide either wittingly or unwittingly. Either way the are a danger to themselves and others and caring and humane society would seek to protect them from themselves IMO.

The only real question remains is is suicide a human right and does that right give them more rights to endanger and harm others by trampling on their rights? Example, should morbidly obese people, most of whom are cardiac cripples, be allowed to operate mass transportation?

If they have the right to gormandize excessively does that absolve them of all personal and social responsibility? Shouldn't rights come with responsibilities?

Do you think that the chronic gluttony that leads to morbid and super morbid obesity is responsible behavior?

 

[Steve]

Could you explain what those ways are? Last I knew 98% of diet attempts end in failure and last time I looked and the data 70% of Americans are overweight or obese.

Yea. But you're also drawing conclusions from cherry-picked data. That's your own problem that's causing you problems with your conclusions.

I've been working with people in the weight loss capacity for quite a while and those aren't my client's failure rates.

Nor are they the stats of the trainers I care to associate myself with.

So it comes down to the varying approaches used. Your statement above suggests all of said approaches are created and fail equally.

There are 100's of diet books out and all sorts of weight loss products and programs and none of them are working.

lol @ this

Are you suggesting that people be forced to have weight loss surgery? I don't think there are enough bariatric surgeons to do the job.

You draw very poor conclusions from the things you read.

What about controlling their food intake until they learn to behave responsibly with food?

Sure, establishing new habits is part of the 'solution.'

The main thing, however, is figuring out core values and beliefs and 'toying around' with factors on that level. Everything else is just cosmetic. You need to dig deeper to influence long-term behavior and decision making.

For most, simply reading a book or popping a pill is going to do very, very little in terms of long-term change.

I think you'd be surprised of your original 'stats' if you did your own research on forums such as this. Of the people who are long term members, how many have 'failed.'

They may have failed at acute attempts but the chronic picture is one that includes weight loss.

 

[Steve]

The only real question remains is is suicide a human right and does that right give them more rights to endanger and harm others by trampling on their rights?

In your world this might be the only question that remains.

But that's b/c of what you label as suicide.

It's (obesity) is a much deeper and more complex issue than simply labeling it as, "Fat people choose to kill themselves by eating gluttonously."

You sound like a former member here (who didn't last long b/c of his refusal to look outside the confines of his own perceptions) who went by the name of ChuckRoast.

I hope you're him b/c he was quite a bit of fun.

I have a question for you. Suppose researchers found a 100% correlation between the air we breathe on Earth and cancer.

What then in the context of your beliefs?

Example, should morbidly obese people, most of whom are cardiac cripples, be allowed to operate mass transportation?

On what planet do you live?

Support this with real data.

Can I ask you how many people you personally know who have crashed a car b/c of their obesity?

I'll open that question up to anyone here actually.

When you answer that truthfully, you might begin to see how whacked your perceptions are. Then again, I'm doubtful.

If they have the right to gormandize excessively does that absolve them of all personal and social responsibility? Shouldn't rights come with responsibilities?

I ask again, how have you been personally affected by obesity?

I'm sure you'll blunt out something like healthcare costs but that's just a stupid argument as the healthcare system in itself is completely whacked in this country.

Do you think that the chronic gluttony that leads to morbid and super morbid obesity is responsible behavior?

Of course not.

But I don't pretend that those decisions made by said glutton have an impact on my life to the extent that I'd feel the need to stand up on a pedestal and preach about sending them to a mental institution for my own safety and well-being.

In fact, if I did, I'd probably concern myself with my own commitment to an institution long before anyone else's.

I'd also add that just b/c it's irresponsible doesn't allow you the right to judge something in such binary terms as you are. You like black. Yes. And you sure like white. No doubt. It's too bad most of like is in the gray.

If you went around and rid society of all those who acted irresponsibly, you'd be left with about 0 people.

If you're claiming that you've never acted irresponsibly, you're either a liar or a bore.

 

[San2]

Unhealthy food, guns ect have the potential to be harmful but they are not a danger.
Gun owners can potentially be a danger to themselves and others but fat people ARE indeed a danger to themselves and others. Chronic gluttony kills over 400,000 people yearly! That is a no brainer.

So....I am a danger to myself and others. Interesting.

Let me see.....at my heaviest, 368 lbs, I had no problems with high cholesterol, high blood pressure or anything else that would be related to being overweight. According to my GP, I was 'disgustingly healthy' for somebody with my weight. Now tell me, why was I a danger to myself?? More interestingly, why in the world was, and am, I a danger to others??? Please explain, because I'm in desperate need of a good laugh.

You're seriously telling me that somebody who is running around with a loaded gun is less dangerous than me, because I carry 100 spare lbs around with me.

Buddy, you need your head checked!

And to go back to the original question - no. Everybody is entitled to do with their life whatever they want. If somebody wants to eat themselves to death and has exhausted any way of losing weight, then it is their prerogative to continue until they die. Besides, if they don't want the help, no mental institution is going to change anything.

Calling yourself an educator? For what, taking away human rights??

 

[Fifty2drop]

are you serious

Last I knew 98% of diet attempts end in failure

Ha ha ha.. you are so funny i am supprised you didnt say 100% of attempts fail.. People who attempt a diet are doomed to start with.... People who are realistic and commit themselves to a life long change rather then a short term pledge are the people who succeed...

Most morbidly obese people and yes i think i still fit into that group, have an addiction, food is it, we trun to it for emotional needs mostly and it just one of those ballooning problems that pardon the pun feeds on itself... i am certainly glad no one tried to put me in a mental hospital because i was an overeater... crickey..
i could go on about some of the other alternative comments you have posted, but i wont...I have a life...

"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

 

[Educator]

Yea. But you're also drawing conclusions from cherry-picked data. That's your own problem that's causing you problems with your conclusions.

I've been working with people in the weight loss capacity for quite a while and those aren't my client's failure rates.

Nor are they the stats of the trainers I care to associate myself with.

So it comes down to the varying approaches used. Your statement above suggests all of said approaches are created and fail equally.



lol @ this



You draw very poor conclusions from the things you read.



Sure, establishing new habits is part of the 'solution.'

The main thing, however, is figuring out core values and beliefs and 'toying around' with factors on that level. Everything else is just cosmetic. You need to dig deeper to influence long-term behavior and decision making.

For most, simply reading a book or popping a pill is going to do very, very little in terms of long-term change.

I think you'd be surprised of your original 'stats' if you did your own research on forums such as this. Of the people who are long term members, how many have 'failed.'

They may have failed at acute attempts but the chronic picture is one that includes weight loss.

The fact is there are multi billions spent on diet books, and other weight loss schemes. Nobody can deny that reality. Even with millions of people spending billions of dollars on ways to lose weight Americans are getting fatter. If you can call that success then you probably thought the Bush presidency was a success. The collective weight of the American populace is still going up and there seems to be no end in sight.

It is a fact that 98% of of non surgical weight loss attempts fail. That is not an opinion in is a known fact. If there were a method that was effective then it would have caught on like wild fire but nothing has. Americans are eating themselves to death at an alarming rate. There are many safe, sensible, and easy to follow weight loss plans, such as Weight Watchers, TOPS, Dean Ornish, Pritkin, Susan Powter, Richard Simmons, Volumetrics, The Zone to name a few. Non of these are flawed enough to cause failure if they are followed. None of them with the possible exception of Dean Ornish MD is difficult to follow. These diets rarely get followed to fruition. Many millions of people have bought these simple, safe and sane diet plans but only a tiny % have lost weight and or kept it off. If you don't believe me look around you next time you are at Wal-Mart. You can go there and not see any lean people some days.

The data from this forum is statistically insignificant. The sample is too small and there is no way to verify its accuracy. I rely on sources such as the CDC, USDA, ADA US Surgeon General and the President's Counsel on Physical Fitness. 70% of Americans are over weight or obese.

The prevalence of obesity (BMI?30) continues to be a health concern for adults, children and adolescents in the United States. Data from the most recent NHANES survey1 shows that among adult men the prevalence of obesity was 31.1% in 2003—2004, and 33.3% in 2005—2006, a small but not statistically significant change. Among adult women, the prevalence of obesity in 2003—2004 was 33.2%, and in 2005—2006 was 35.3%, again a small but not significant change.

As you can see the obesity rate is still climbing in spite of the billion and billions spent to combat it.

IMO the solution starts with defining the problem in unambiguous terms that have no wiggle room for interpretation. That means throwing buzz phrases like "lifestyle change" and replacing them with cold, hard and sobering facts. Here is an indisputable fact.

If a man of average height keeps his calories at or below 2500 daily and a woman of average height keeps hers at or below 2000 it is impossible for either of them to be overweight.

There is a simple proof for the above fact and that is the laws of physics.

The fact is, what America and the Western world is doing now to combat obesity is not working. There is no denying that. Statistics tell the truth. Theories don't.

 

[Educator]

So....I am a danger to myself and others. Interesting.

Let me see.....at my heaviest, 368 lbs, I had no problems with high cholesterol, high blood pressure or anything else that would be related to being overweight. According to my GP, I was 'disgustingly healthy' for somebody with my weight. Now tell me, why was I a danger to myself?? More interestingly, why in the world was, and am, I a danger to others??? Please explain, because I'm in desperate need of a good laugh.

You're seriously telling me that somebody who is running around with a loaded gun is less dangerous than me, because I carry 100 spare lbs around with me.

Buddy, you need your head checked!

And to go back to the original question - no. Everybody is entitled to do with their life whatever they want. If somebody wants to eat themselves to death and has exhausted any way of losing weight, then it is their prerogative to continue until they die. Besides, if they don't want the help, no mental institution is going to change anything.

Calling yourself an educator? For what, taking away human rights??

Let's bring some perspective to this. You are relying on the BS of an MD. Doctor mistakes kill 130,000 Americans each year and there is very little evidence that cholesterol numbers have any effect on heart and artery disease.


I don't want to take a way any rights form anyone. I want to preserve rights. I don't want a cardiac cripple driving my kid's school bus. I don't want my tax dollars being spent to treat obesity related diseases. I don't want my taxes being spent to support people who are simply too fat to work.

How does one exhaust every way of losing weight? Where did you come up with that? I can take any fat person. Put them in a cell and feed them the right amount of calories and EVERYONE of them will get to a normal and healthy weight.

You think it is OK for a person to become a glutton at the expense of society? That is just plain awful!

 

[Educator]

Ha ha ha.. you are so funny i am supprised you didnt say 100% of attempts fail.. People who attempt a diet are doomed to start with.... People who are realistic and commit themselves to a life long change rather then a short term pledge are the people who succeed...

Most morbidly obese people and yes i think i still fit into that group, have an addiction, food is it, we trun to it for emotional needs mostly and it just one of those ballooning problems that pardon the pun feeds on itself... i am certainly glad no one tried to put me in a mental hospital because i was an overeater... crickey..
i could go on about some of the other alternative comments you have posted, but i wont...I have a life...

"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

I have worked with may morbidly obese people. I challenged the notion that fat people are fat do to some mental illness. I contacted several psychology departments and several major universities and I found something very interesting. Obese people are no more or no less mentally ill than the general population. The data that supports this was gleaned from over 10,000 MMPI test results. A surprising fact was that obese people actually were found to have higher self esteem than the general population. That seemed to fly in the face of conventional wisdom and popular myth.

I needed to have that explained to me because it went against everything I had heard. Now it makes perfect sense. A professor Emeritas at a major university explained to me that it take a great deal of self esteem to be seen in public if you are obese. Fat and obese people over the past 20 years have normalized obesity. He went on to tell me that fat and obese people are constantly "rewarding" themselves with pleasure form food. These "positive strokes/rewards reinforce feelings of self esteem whereas on the other hand people with anorexia deny themselves pleasure and inflict torturous exercise regimes on themselves as punishment for enjoying food. AND.. in fact skinny people are the ones with low self esteem.

He had some very interesting opinions on why many dieters choose to remain ignorant about basic nutrition and why they fall for crazy diet scams.

Why do you say I am throwing stones and what makes you say I live in a glass house?

 

[ChefChiTown]

Unhealthy food, guns ect have the potential to be harmful but they are not a danger.

Read that again. It doesn't make any sense.

They have the potential to be harmful...but they are not a danger?

Gun owners can potentially be a danger to themselves and others but fat people ARE indeed a danger to themselves and others. Chronic gluttony kills over 400,000 people yearly! That is a no brainer.

Once again, you make no sense, and THAT is a no brainer.

Choosing to chronically over eat is reckless behavior. Having bacon and eggs, Fast food and junk food in moderate amounts won't kill you but gorging on unhealthy foods chronically is dangerous, reckless and destructive behavior that will lead to premature death.

Driving 85MPH through a school zone is reckless behavior.
Juggling kitchen knives is reckless behavior.
Poking a sleeping bear is reckelss behavior.
Holding your breath underwater is reckless behavior.
etc.

I take it that you just don't like fat people. I uh, I don't think you picked the right place to make friends.

Almost any food processed or unprocessed has the potential to harm. You can die from drinking too much water. When are person chooses to chronically take in to many calories regardless of the food they are committing suicide either wittingly or unwittingly. Either way the are a danger to themselves and others and caring and humane society would seek to protect them from themselves IMO.

If you're going to act like you are some sort of "educator", you should probably educate yourself first. You can't unwittingly commit suicide. Suicide, by defintion, is...

Main Entry: 1sui·cide
Pronunciation: \?sü-?-?s?d\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin sui (genitive) of oneself + English -cide; akin to Old English & Old High German s?n his, Latin suus one's own, sed, se without, Sanskrit sva oneself, one's own
Date: 1643
1 a: the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind b: ruin of one's own interests <political suicide> c: apoptosis <cell suicide>
2: one that commits or attempts suicide

The only real question remains is is suicide a human right and does that right give them more rights to endanger and harm others by trampling on their rights? Example, should morbidly obese people, most of whom are cardiac cripples, be allowed to operate mass transportation?

No, the only real question is "why do you hate fat people so much?"

Morbidly obese people aren't the only people with weak hearts. My dad is far from being fat and he has had 2 heart attacks. So, should he not be allowed to drive a car?

I'm sorry, but your argument is uneducated, thoughtless and narrow-minded.

If they have the right to gormandize excessively does that absolve them of all personal and social responsibility? Shouldn't rights come with responsibilities?

So, are you saying that fat people are some sort of cancer on the rest of society; that they are a threatening harm to everyone else in the world?

Technically, I am obese, so do you think that I am a harm to others around me?

I work in a kitchen as a chef. I hold sharp knives and handle dangerously hot foods all day long. Since I am obese, should I be fired from my job and not allowed to work in the kitchen? I mean, I could have a heart attack while holding a knife, collapse and accidentally cut somebody on my way to the ground. Or, I could have a heart attack, collapse and drop boiling sauce all over somebody.

Wow, I'm surprised I am allowed to leave my house. I'm so DANGEROUS!!!

Do you think that the chronic gluttony that leads to morbid and super morbid obesity is responsible behavior?

You do realize that some people don't have to have "chronic gluttony" in order to become obese, right? Some people have glandular disorders, weak metabolism, etc.

What exactly is your beef with fat people? Mmm, beef... Uh oh, call the psych ward, I'm having a fat moment!

 

[San2]

I have read a lot of bullshit in my life, but Educator, you really top it all.

How about you take your kids, get of your lazy ass and drive them to school yourself. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the 'cardiac cripples' (which is extremely offensive, just for the record) crashing the school bus.

And you know what? Take your taxes and stick them where the sun doesn't shine. Really deep. And then add your prejudice, and your so-called unbiased studies (which you simply can't read, and just bent to your liking). Once you're done with that, head out onto the highway and have a little walk. Hopefully some fat dude with a heart attack will do us all a favour and flatten you.

I'll take fat over stupid and ignorant any day of the week. At least I can diet, but for you, there is simply no hope....what a waste of time.

 

[Fifty2drop]

ha ha ha .....

Educator your threads are very entertaining..

Are you sure you dont want to change that username.....

ha ha ha..

For better replies maybe you should look at the manner in which you have posted.. Most people on this forum are here for support and guidance.. Their journeys and thoughts are personal and sincere.. NB: i said MOST not ALL.... Unfortunatley there is nothing personal or supportive about your posts.. If there is a message that you truly believe you need to communicate to us maybe you should change your bedside manner..

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar...

 

[Steve]

The fact is there are multi billions spent on diet books, and other weight loss schemes. Nobody can deny that reality. Even with millions of people spending billions of dollars on ways to lose weight Americans are getting fatter. If you can call that success then you probably thought the Bush presidency was a success. The collective weight of the American populace is still going up and there seems to be no end in sight.

The failure rests on the marketing of shit products. Not the individual's decision making ability. Far and away most products are gimmicks and snake oil. Companies feed off the desperation of the masses and push more and more crap and it has led to ignorance and false expectations of enormous proportions.

I would agree that some people are just lazy.

But the ones who keep trying and failing.

Yeah, I'd say you're beyond way off with your perceptions. You're certainly entitled to them, but I don't agree with them.

It is a fact that 98% of of non surgical weight loss attempts fail. That is not an opinion in is a known fact. If there were a method that was effective then it would have caught on like wild fire but nothing has.

No.

Maybe this is the case with regards to the research you're reading (which I'd like to look over please) but that's not the case with the populations I've experienced.

Just because 'everyone' is failing means jack all to me. Research doesn't dictate reality, ya know?

The data from this forum is statistically insignificant. The sample is too small and there is no way to verify its accuracy. I rely on sources such as the CDC, USDA, ADA US Surgeon General and the President's Counsel on Physical Fitness. 70% of Americans are over weight or obese.

And what do you suggest is the root cause of this? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion.

IMO the solution starts with defining the problem in unambiguous terms that have no wiggle room for interpretation. That means throwing buzz phrases like "lifestyle change" and replacing them with cold, hard and sobering facts. Here is an indisputable fact.

If a man of average height keeps his calories at or below 2500 daily and a woman of average height keeps hers at or below 2000 it is impossible for either of them to be overweight.

There is a simple proof for the above fact and that is the laws of physics.

I actually agree with you on this point. People like rigidity so throw them the simplistic truth of it. You can't eat more food than X. Sure, there will be statistical outliers who have metabolic disturbances but those will be few and far between.

However, you seem to overlook complexity of the roots of the various cases of obesity.

Looked at if from the bird's eye view, it's caused be an imbalance of energy intake vs. expenditure. However, why are people choosing to expend less energy than they take in?

The answer to this question varies from individual to individual. Sometimes it's a matter of ignorance. Sometimes laziness. Sometimes depression. Sometimes addiction. The list goes on and on.

Though the solution may be extremely simplistic, the application of it is not because of the complexity of said root structure.

The fact is, what America and the Western world is doing now to combat obesity is not working. There is no denying that. Statistics tell the truth. Theories don't.

I don't believe anyone is spitting theory. My clientele and the population of this forum (of experienced members) have done better than the national level statistics. I care more about what's in my control than what's not.

Until someone creates a pill that works or the societal influence in terms of education and lifestyle modification is completely overhauled, you or anyone else is going to be unable to change the tide on a mass level.

That's my opinion.

 

[Steve]

I have a question for you. Suppose researchers found a 100% correlation between the air we breathe on Earth and cancer.

What then in the context of your beliefs?

Can maybe take one moment and get off your pedestal and answer direct questions that were thrown at you like the above?

It's cool that you're passionate about your beliefs. And I'll certainly discuss things with you. But only if you acknowledge points that are not your own too.

You have to respect the other side of the fence if a meaningful conversation is to ensue.

Can I ask you how many people you personally know who have crashed a car b/c of their obesity?

And this?

I ask again, how have you been personally affected by obesity?

And this?

 

[Fifty2drop]

well as a spokes person for well.. der myself ha ha ha and those i know, i have not and they have not had a car accident because we were obese/overweight.. no accidents have been caused by any factor relating to weight..oh but wait.. a gentlemen friend of mine was overweight and he was driving down the freeway (100km/h) when a cyclist decided he could make it across the 4 lanes of traffic and rode straight into the side of his car across the bonnet and into the windshield then on to the other oncoming lane.. Maybe in hindsight that was his fault.. he was fat...?

ha ha ha ha.... shit can you imagine the premiums for insurance if that was the case..... not mention personal liability... as if recent activities beyond our control havent jacked the prices on everything already we now have the fat brigade... bloody hell....