Not weight loss...but brings up questions

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MindiK

New member
On the CNN Web site there's a story out of Greenville County, South Carolina, about a search for a boy and his mom....the police were going to take the boy into protective custody because he's 14 years old and 555 pounds. They were taking him due to "medical neglect."

My husband and I were talking about things like this while watching "Survival of the Half-Ton Teen" or something on TLC the other day...at what point is a parent held responsible for a child becoming this way? On the show there was a 19 year old whose mother had him entirely emotionally stunted and dependent on his mother. He weighed 800+ pounds. The other kid on the show was 16 and weighed more than 600 pounds.

Should children who are THAT big be removed from their homes? How responsible are parents for such a condition?
 
At that weight I would say parents are entirely responsible for it. I am not usually somebody who promotes taking kids out of their families, but in this case I would be all for it. Take the kid into care, try to save what is to save, and work closely with the parents and try to educate them about what needs to happen. If they are willing to work with people and realise what they are doing to their kids, there is nothing speaking against those kids going back to the family eventually. If they don't, I would remove the kid from that family permanently, since leaving it there means an almost certain, early death for the child.
 
Honestly, to me, if the kid weighs that much at that age, its mostly his fault...he doesnt have to eat the food his parents are giving him, he could say no...while i wouldnt call cps, i would say that he needs to go into rehab for his eating though...on the other hand, if the kid was 3 years old and weighed a crazy weight like 150 lbs, it would be the parents fault because the kid doesnt know better, but thats just what I think
 
Sorry, a 14 year old does not stand a chance in hell if their parents are going to allow that sort of thing. To get that big and move that little the parents HAVE to be enablers, and it is almost certain that the child never got proper education about how to eat properly.

That is criminal neglect and it is good that the kid is getting removed from their custody.
 
Children can't be held responsible for their health - if their parents let their teeth fall out, or don't take them to the doctor or provide medicine when their sick, it amounts to the same thing: quality of life decreasing for that child, which is entirely a parental responsibility.
 
Cripes! why do people always jump straight to "TAKE THE KIDS OFF THEM" Sheez.. how happy do you think that is going to make the kids in question??? being ripped from their families and all that they love, shoved into foster care or an institution.. all because they are FAT - talk about how to screw up a person for life!!!

Obviously Education and mediation should come well before punitive action!

What happens to kids in "Care" - they are very often abused, mentally and or physically, are isolated, disconnected, often develop a deep hatred of authority and very often develop far far worse emotional and even physical issues just by being in the "system".

I doubt very much that there are many parents who are positively encouraging or forcing kids to overeat.. there are however plenty who are allowing it to happen, for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which might be that they have lost control of their teenage kids.... or they might need education on good nutrition, or they might be having problems coping themselves and need some help...and that is where there may be some cause for governmental intervention in the form of EDUCATION and Family Counselling along with assistance to parents and the children to learn new positive ways of dealing with emotional issues.. or whatever the particular trigger for that individual/family might be.

Think about it, would you be happy if someone grabbed you and shoved you in FAT camp because you were not able to control yourself.
 
800 lbs.....how much more can you screw up a kid's life????

I agree though, something should have happened way before hand to stop the kids from getting to that point in the first place. But if that doesn't happen....come one, how much worse can it get?

At 555 and more lbs, the kid can't have a normal life at all. They probably don't even leave the house anymore. They are isolated from everything a normal childhood should be like, and chances are that they have no friends whatsoever, and aren't even able to attend school. I agree, being 'in the system' can do some damage, but in these cases that has already been done. And at the weights mentioned it is not just a case of taking them out of the family as punishment for anybody, it's literally to save the kid's life.

All of the above said, it should never come to this point, and I don't understand why people just sit there and watch a kid go bigger and bigger, and don't offer advise and assistance a lot earlier.
 
Those are extreme examples.. how many 800lb kids are there? or even 500lb ones...the implication is that all obese kids should be removed.. that is what I object to.. this reactionary "Take the kids off them" "it's the parent's fault" etc etc Even kids have a high level of self determination, they are not mindless automatrons - they KNOW they are doing this to themselves, and should be helped.. not harmed further.

By the same argument..Should all Anorexic kids be taken from their parents too?

And YES it makes it worse for them by removing them from their loved ones of course it does! This is a well known fact for about 30 years now..That is why we don't institutionize mentally Retarded, Autistics, Indigenious kids or the Physically disabled anymore!!! SHeez
 
I remember once seeing an episode of Oprah (yeah I know, not a really scientfic source but.. ).. and there was a young girl about 15 or so.. who weighed 400+ pounds. Her mother was a relatively normally sized person, who had always cooked a good healthy meal, etc taught the child how to eat right.. but the kid had for whatever emotional reasons started to really put on weight as tween - teen.. by buying (outside the house) junk food and soda and anything else she could get her hands on..and by 15 she weighed 400+ and was stealing money to buy food from the mother.. the mother was in tears with worry for her beautiful girl, and was sick and tired of the kids stealing money to buy junk food - She had lost all control over what the kid ate.

Should the girl be taken from the home forcibly? Or should she get some help, perhaps through a hospital program the same as other Eating Disorders?
 
Yes, of course they are extreme examples, that's the reason for the extreme measures.

I never once mentioned having them forcibly removed from their home. I said that both the kids and the parents should get help and education, but yes, the kid should be taken out of the environment that has gotten them into the state they are in. Not forever, but until the root cause for whatever the problem is has been found and dealt with.

And yes, the same goes for anorexic kids as well. I am not saying 'break up the family', I am saying 'give them a break', help them and teach them that what is going on is wrong. As for the anorexic girl....yes, if the mother has lost control over the girl then the girl should be taken out of the family and placed into a hospital program where they could a) work on her eating disorder and b) find out if not being at home actually changes how the girl behaves. A lot of times the parents don't even realise that they are the underlying cause for what seems entirely the kid's doing.

What would you do? The mother obviously can't help the kid because she lost all control. So if you put the girl into a hospital program where she just stays the day and goes home at night, you can be sure that even on the way home she'll go and buy food. She needs 24 hour supervision and therapy, and that can only be given outside the home.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I am not talking about taking these kids away from their families and never giving them back, just sticking them into the system. What I am getting at is yes, take them away from the family for a limited amount of time, to put them into a program that deals with their physical and emotional problems, while working closely with the rest of the family. I am not saying don't let them see their family or anything, just take them out of their familiar environment for a while, because until you do that, you will never be able to find out what is really causing the problem.

Only in really extreme cases, where parents refuse to work with others, ore are actively feeding their kids (or otherwise cause their health problems KNOWINGLY and PURPOSELY), should a removal of the kids from the family even be considered.
 
Kori, I think you are overreacting, nobody said take all the obese kids from their families just the ones that are SO obese that they may very well die an early death, have no lifequality, etc... when a mom spanks once you wouldn't take the kid away either, if she spanks until the child is in danger of dying, it isa different picture!
Plus, sure being taken into care is not ideal, never ideal, but having dealt with families that had this happen to them (due to abuse) I can tell you, it is hard in the beginning but at some point the child realizes that his home was terrible and they were hurting him, for whatever reason. Taking someone into care is not a one day thing, a lot of people are involved, it doesn't suddenly happen, the families are aware of a less than ideal situation, the parents have been talked to by CPS, by shrinks, by paediatricians and only when it is clear that these parents are not willing to make the changes needed to enable their child a normal life, they are uprooted.
Unfortunately the process actually is so long, that a lot of children die in the abused household, because CPS did not get them out in time. My very closest friend was abused (in all senses, physically, emotionally and possibly sexually) at home, she is currently in a custody battle for her youngest brother. They have been battling for months and the end is no where near. It may be another year or two (of daily abuse for the little boy) until anything happens.

Secondly on topic, I think parents should have nutrition classes before they screw up their kids. Yeah sure there is the odd example of a child who was brought up to eat nice food and then gorges himself on donuts outside the house but most obese children are this way because their parents cook unhealthy food, and do not know which portionsize is appropriate for a small child.
On the beach with my mother we saw a family, 2 young children (maybe 7 and 5), both clearly obese. The mother fed them constantly, any time the kids were fuzzy, or crying about something she would stuff some food in their mouths. The kids had red spots on their thighs from them rubbing together, they couldn't run with the other kids... we were wondering, sure parents are educators, but not the only ones, right? What about the school teachers?
I think when in a school a teacher sees an obese child they should have a meeting with the parents and a nutritionist, that teaches them what and how much a kid should really eat. Sure you can't force them to feed the kids veggies, but (almost) no parent wants their kid unhappy, and seeing that your kid is getting fatter and unhappier should be at least an incentive to cook better food, to reduce the amount the kids eat.

In this particular case (555 teen), I think the state should sit down with the mom and figure it out, if she is unable to feed the kid correctly, maybe he (at teenage age, already old enough to make his own decisions) should go to one of those schools where they make the kids lose weight and teach them how to eat correctly.
A few years ago that obese preschooler was all over the news, she was like 6 and weighed 300 pounds or something. Her mom fed her like 3 pizzas for lunch and 12 l of coke a day, because she "didn't know better". The child was taken out of her care, rehabilitated both separately, and brought them back together. At 9 years old the little girl weighed 100 pounds and looked fine (ish, she still had a ton of skin hanging off her).
It is possible to do this, to rehabilitate an overeating family, but in my opinion we should do it before the kids are near death!
Camy
 
I don't think any of these children should have ever been permanently taken from their homes, like many have said. The parents should have been given a chance at educating themselves AND their children and take steps to remedy the situation they had helped their child get into before drastic measures were taken. If they're given the chance and don't do it, don't care or simply don't want to, then the child should be removed and placed in a situation where he or she can safely lose weight and have a longer, healthier life.

In the case on CNN of the 555 pound young teen...the doctors had ruled he was in immediate need of medical care due to his size and his mother took him and ran away rather than seek the treatment. To me, that's an extreme case where the mother seems to have no clue as to what to do with a child his size.

Too many parents (some I know personally even) use food as a pacifier for their children. Take my sister-in-law for instance...when junior cries, give him a Little Debbie cake. When he does something good or wants a treat, it's a piece of bread slathered with butter (which he likes). When they go to his grandma's house, his mother gets him a coke or juice drink and a honey bun. For supper one night the kid ate a ballpark pretzel, a bag of popcorn and two pieces of buttered bread, then drank half a gallon of milk. He gets anything and everything he wants, food and drink wise, at night just to keep him in his bed.

Will he grow up to have problems with obesity? Maybe...his dad does, while his mom doesn't. It remains to be seen, but I truly hope not. It's this point, NOW, that his mom needs to be educated about what she's doing, and how it will affect her child. She's not listening to any of us, however....it would take professional guidance. And that's what the parents I originally posted about need.
 
Personally, I think the family should be educated and closely monitored. As Im sure if the child in question is taken away and he has an eating disorder it will only get worse from the emotional stress he will be under.. I say, Educate,Monitor, and THEN if the parents dont take responsibility for something that is indeed there fault, and try to fix the damage they have done, the child in question should be tempararily taken from the home, and be taken to a rehabilitation centre.
 
At 800 lbs, even at 600, there is no time to watch and monitor. In general, it's a good idea, but when things have already spiralled so out of control, every day that the kid remains in that environment could be his or her last....so as said, extreme circumstances might require extreme measures.

It would help if things would never get to those extremes though, and the authorities would offer help before it is too late. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to happen too often.
 
I do believe allowing a child to reach an extreme weight like this is most definitely child abuse. I don't know how I feel about removing a child from their home, but obviously the parents need to be educated and very very closely watched. There would also need to be a lot of psychological therapy done with both child and parents as this situation would no doubt cause psychological trauma. Very sad!
 
MindiK said:
On the CNN Web site there's a story out of Greenville County, South Carolina, about a search for a boy and his mom....the police were going to take the boy into protective custody because he's 14 years old and 555 pounds. They were taking him due to "medical neglect."

My husband and I were talking about things like this while watching "Survival of the Half-Ton Teen" or something on TLC the other day...at what point is a parent held responsible for a child becoming this way? On the show there was a 19 year old whose mother had him entirely emotionally stunted and dependent on his mother. He weighed 800+ pounds. The other kid on the show was 16 and weighed more than 600 pounds.

Should children who are THAT big be removed from their homes? How responsible are parents for such a condition?
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The parents are 100% responsible for their children (up until a certain age) being in the condition they are in. When you're 13 years old (for example), you're going to eat almost anything that your parents give you. So, it's the parents' reponsibility to feed their children the proper foods.

But, once a child gets to be about 16-17 years old, they have choices; choices of food, choices of how much they eat, etc. Once they get to that age, the parents start handing over SOME of their responsibility to the children themselves.
 
My Appologies if I offended anyone with my comments, or was seen to overreact - but we recently had this discussion in the country, some right wing media beat up calling for all obese children to be removed from their homes.. Argh.. it just seriously hacks me off that people immediately jump on a bandwagon of Witch hunting and blame laying the minute something like this comes up.

All of the examples cited were teenagers, once a kid hits those years, everything changes... once it might have been true that parental influence lasted well into the teenage years, perhaps until 16 or more, however I doubt that is the case now, especially in lower socio-economic areas and groups... I see young girls of 12 or 13 dressed like and behaving like prostitutes, I see kids smoking, I see them drinking alcohol, and engaging in all manner of dangerous and stupid behaviours... imho overeating is just another one of them.

Like anything involving children (or teens in this example), what to do should be determined on a case by case basis, and yes if it is appropriate and the child agrees, removal to an inpatient hospital program might be the best solution, hence why I made the hospital program comment earlier, I didn't say it should be an outpatient program only.

Rarely does anyone say "it's the parents fault" or "it's Criminal/Medical Neglect" or "It's Child abuse" when a teenager chooses to become anorexic, or is Emo... or gets into drugs or is suicidal, why is it automatically assumed to be the parent's fault when a teenager choses to be obese?

There might well have been cases in the USA of parents forcing their kids to get that big.. I have never heard of such a thing, and really find it pretty incredulous...but even in a society where that has happened previously, I wouldn't automatically assume that to be the case in every case, it would be so incredibly rare I would have though.

The parents might be genuinely distressed by their child's condition, they might even have sought medical attention, but unless the KID wants to lose the weight it just isn't going to happen.. as we all know.. everyone of us is here because we have made that decision.. and everyone of us has previously failed when we weren't 100% committed to the process.

If any individual has no desire to lose weight you cannot force them without breaching basic human rights. Most especially not children, you can only educate all involved and intervene when medical attention is sought.
 
Rarely does anyone say "it's the parents fault" or "it's Criminal/Medical Neglect" or "It's Child abuse" when a teenager chooses to become anorexic, or is Emo... or gets into drugs or is suicidal, why is it automatically assumed to be the parent's fault when a teenager choses to be obese?
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While that's true, in all of those cases, the child would be taken out of the home and admitted to a hospital or mental facility in order to receive proper treatment. So why should a child who is extremely obese not also be treated that way?
 
Also, in most cases there will be people saying that it is the parent's 'fault', or that there is a problem that the parents are somehow involved in, no matter if the kid is obese, anorexic, suicidal or whatever else. I have never come across a case where kids had emotional problems and nobody cared to look at the parents.

Personally, in any case my first thought would be 'What's wrong at home for that kid to be like that?', and I agree with Kara, in all of those cases the kid would be taken out of the home and receive treatment. Why would it be any different in cases of obesity?
 
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Speaking just for myself, and about my experiences...

Sure, when we were teenagers and able to get out and about, we could've chosen to eat better. However, we didn't have jobs. We didn't have money of our own to grocery shop WITH until we were legal adults. We ate what we had been raised to eat, what was in the house that my mom (who worked 2-3 jobs at a time) bought and left there, or we ordered out with money she left for us, before we could drive. When we were more mobile, we simply continued to eat how we had been raised to eat - quick, easy, high calorie fast foods, lots of snack cakes between meals, sugar, sugar and more sugar. Lots of hamburger helpers, frozen pizzas, TV dinners, pizza delivery, McDonald's, etc.

The kids in the original example were very, very large. And I'm sure they didn't get that way as perfectly mobile, educated teenagers...it started I'm sure when they were much younger and at the will of their parents, who did not teach them correct ways to function in life.

Maybe the parents did "the best they could" with their circumstances, but at some point (maybe when the kids hit 300-400+ pounds before their 15th birthday) the parent could've taken a step back and said, "Hey, maybe I need to change what I'm bringing into the house to save my child's life?!"

No, the parent isn't stuffing food into the faces of these kids, but the kids are only doing what they were raised to do. So I'd argue that yes, in a way, the parent IS a lot to blame...at least in these situations. That doesn't go for all situations like this (not talking about teens who gain weight by hiding or hoarding food, sneaking meals, etc).
 
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