not feeling as worked out after compound exersices.

K

Karky

2
as the title says. im used to doing pretty much isolated exersices, but now ive changed to more compound exersices. today, working my tris and shoulders, i did triceps dip, woodchopper, barbell shoulder press and some other compoind exersices. i was told it was more effective, but i dont feel more worked out than i used to, actually, i feel alot less worked out than i did when i used the isolated exersices. now.. ive read somewhere that its normal, but i would still like to hear you guys say it:p
 
well when i went from isolation to more compounds i felt the same way the first day but the 2nd I was feeling it, really feeling it. After that it was okay. maybe your not lifting enough?? you should not feel worn out and really sore. compounds rock don't give up on them, they mimic more everyday movements and are hitting the stabilizers as well. so stick with it.
 
yea

yea this makes sense.

you may notice that by doing more compound exercises you absolutely smoke parts of your body that you never did before, things like serratus anterior and rhomboids and glutes.
 
okay. i just did tris and shoulders today. feeling it a bit now.. more than i did at the gym.. well.. ill just stick with it:p hopefully i can still move in morning:p
 
perhaps you couldn't lift as much weight with compound moves, because all the assisting muscles aren't as developed as the ones you've been isolating.
 
lol thats what i said as the soreness got worse with each passing hour but by the time i was ready for hitting the same parts (2 days) i was okay again. just keep going and you'll be happy with the results..:)
 
cool thanks :)
and one question.. the barbell shoulder press.. should i keep my back streight and in towards the seat at all time during the lift? i find that extremley difficult :S
my chest and back moves forward while lifting it, just wondering if that would be bad for the back long term.. or what?
the upper back/shoulder area and my bottom has contact with the seat at all time
 
Karky said:
cool thanks :)
and one question.. the barbell shoulder press.. should i keep my back streight and in towards the seat at all time during the lift? i find that extremley difficult :S
my chest and back moves forward while lifting it, just wondering if that would be bad for the back long term.. or what?
the upper back/shoulder area and my bottom has contact with the seat at all time
Click to expand...

yeah that happens, you'll be fine as long as you aren't throwing your back a ton and completely arching it, it would be difficult to do this correctly without your chest and back moving forward some because the bar should come down below your chin towards the upper chest aligned with your shoulders, but if you feel like your throwing your back too much the weight may be too heaving... if you do them behind your head then you shouldn't move your chest and back forward; but behind isn't as safe anyway
 
ill just keep doing what i was doing. i dident notice any pain, though i did notice my back muscles working, since i felt it afterwards.. but when putting the back a bit out like that i guess it uses more of the muscles in the back to keep it stable.
 
Glad to see the switch to compound exercises

When you make the switch from "isolation" movement exercises to compound movement exercises you must also make a mentality shift as well.

Isolation movement exercises and their corresponding rep ranges, sets, split routines, etc. are geared toward hypertrophy... whereas compound movement exercises are geared toward developing a functionally strong body.

When you perform isolation exercises for muscle growth you most likely try to go to failure, or as close to failure as possible, to instigate muscle growth. The result is you are extremely tired, your muscles are more pumped and you feel the workout is harder.

On the other hand, compound exercises are best done with intensity, but not to failure, and are designed to improve strength, power and endurance in the functional movement of the body as a whole.

You will feel different after this type of workout... initially.

As you continue on your strength journey using compound exercises you will discover muscles that you have previously been neglecting and untapped powers that you didn't know you had.

Stick with it...

The best workout is not necessarily the one that makes you the most tired or sore... but the one that produces the most performance improvements in movements used in sport, work and life.

Compound exercises are definitely the way to go if you want a body that performs as good as it looks.

One word of advice...

Now that you have made the switch from "isolation" exercises to compound exercises... don't stop there.

Make your compound exercises workout a full-body workout and blur the lines between strength training and metabolic conditioning by systematically pumping up the intensity and reducing rest periods.

This is the best way to prepare yourself for any challenge that comes your way.

Coach Lomax
 
Well said. This is why Fire and Poice use compunds in their training, it makes complete sense. I use compunds because the mimic very closely the things I do in my job . :)
 
hmm.. about the last thing coach said.
reducing rest periods and stuff? wouldnt that go more towards end? while i want to go more towards strenght.. ? :S
 
Absolute Strength vs Strength Endurance

You are absolutely right.

What I didn't know by your question was the reason for your personal training.

Are you training for absolute strength, explosive power of strength endurance?

If absolute strength... keep the weight high, the reps low and the rest periods high.

If explosive power... keep the weights high, the reps low to moderate and the rest periods high.

If strength endurance... lower weights, higher reps and shorter rest periods.

I personally train for strength that I can use in the real world under the greatest amount of circumstances... therefore, I train for all types of strength by varying methods, stresses and intensities regularly.

There is more to strength than absolute strength... and if you spend all your time training absolute strength undoubtedly the world will throw you a challenge that requires strength endurance, or one of the other physical abilities required for fitness excellence.

I guess the real point of my previous post was to motivate you not to give up on compound exercises and get sucked back into the inferior (in my opinion) isolation movement exercise methods.

Coach Lomax
 
okay, so lets say i do two weeks of 3x3 per exersice then 2 weeks of say 8x2 per exersice, then 2 weeks of 15x1 per exersice? or does the 15x1 sound weird? just thinking that way because of the volume.. i usually do 3 exersices each muscle group, so it will be 15x1 3 times with different exersices hitting the same muscle group
 
Isolation movement exercises and their corresponding rep ranges, sets, split routines, etc. are geared toward hypertrophy... whereas compound movement exercises are geared toward developing a functionally strong body.
Click to expand...

While functional if the rest and rep schemes reflect that compound lifts will produce more hypertrophy then any isolation excercise. That's a misleading statement imo.
 
so with doing compoind lifts i will get more hypertorphy..but i will also get stronger? or is isolation best for getting stronger? and i want to get stronger in like.. real life situationes, not just strong at the gym.
 
Natural Periodization

In response to jpfitness, yes, my way of training has been described as conjugate periodization or training multiple qualities at once or through periodization.



Here is where my views can become controversial... I don't believe in periodization.

Ok, I believe that the varying of stresses, intensities and focus is inevitable in any physical training... and absolutely necessary for long lasting improvements.

But I believe that planned periodization is voodoo.

Before you take my head off, let me explain...

The concept that you can split your training up into different periods to train different physical abilities, or different aspects of a single ability in order to peak at a specific time is certainly enticing.

However, the claim that a periodization program can be devised that will work equally well for every practitioner is foolhardy.

Periodization, and Conjugate Periodization is certainly a step in the right direction... but in order to see optimum results the periodization must occur naturally.

The easiest way to do this is to fortify your strengths while concentrating on your weaknesses... When your weaknesses become newfound strengths, concentrate on other weaknesses.

Physical fitness is a personal journey that must be experienced by each individual... there is no one plan that will help everyone equally.

Let me put it this way... an athlete can greatly improve using a planned periodization method, but whether they truly peak at their "optimum" performance level at a specific date nobody knows for sure.

After all, there have been many a great athlete that achieved many a great thing while using inferior physical training methods.

How much greater they would have been if they trained in a way that naturally brought out their individual strengths while simultaneously improving their weaknesses is just speculation.

For the most part, people who physically train are not competitive, professional athletes concerned with peaking on a specific date... therefore the natural flow of stresses, intensities and methods must be respected in order to achieve long lasting physical benefits.

Sorry, I went on so long about this... I broke one of my training rules.

Don't over analyze your training... just keep training and experimenting and you will find your own personal path to strength, conditioning and fitness excellence.

Coach Lomax
 
Good stuff Lomax. I am not necessarily a fan of periodization in the linear sense, and following someone elses recommended percentages is "voodoo" as you call it. But basically anything that aspect of your training that you focus on for a phase, or a "period" is periodization. For an experienced lifter, almost any routine they divise will have some aspect of auto-regulatory method involved as someone is calculating their accumulated fatigue on the CNS, and predicting when they will be supercompensating so that they can optimize their progress.

I personally apply a straight up autoreg routine, whereby I establish my max in a particular rep range depending on what quality I am trying to improve, then I reduce my work weight by 6-10% (depends on how soon I want to work out again) and train as many sets as it takes until I reach my first form drop-off. I won't train that muscle again until my [estimated] recovery. So in a sense, it is periodized, but not in the traditional sense to which you are referring.

Good advice though. Karky, I would take his advice. Also, quit working out your "parts" like you are and start hitting your full body in one workout. Your body wasn't designed to isolate, but to work synergistically with the rest of your parts. When you break out of the paradigm you're currently locked in, which I am sure is only reinforced by the so-called "experts" in the muscle mags featuring steroid mutated men (not athletes), you will really start to excel in your fitness levels and form WILL follow function, I promise!
 
your saying workout all the muscles in one day? instead of doing different groups in different days?
working out like what? every other day? since estimated recovery is 42 hours?
would i have to work out less hard than i have been doing with the split (not sure thats what it is called) program? i was told that with doing a split program you could exersice each muscle harder than if you worked out 4 times a week, all muscles every day you train.
will i have to drop my muscle volume? or can i still use around 25 volume each muscle group, working out 4 days a week.. would sure take a long time at the gym. i know its probobly from person to person, depending on how fit you are, but whats the "normal" thing? if there is one..
 
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