No Definition.

R

retired_M&N

Guest
Hi, im 26 years old and have set myself a goal of a well defined body. My main aim is for a visible 6pack.

Im 5ft10 (177cm) and exactley one year ago i weighed 170pounds (77kg's).

My waist was 34inches and my BMI was 25.6.

Over the years ive played a lot of sport and done a little bit of weights at home, but nothing too serious.

Over the last 12months ive lost 33pounds (15kg's). Making me 137pounds (63kg's). I am now a 30inch waist and my BMI is 20.6.

Over this period ive tried to consume majority of my calories through protein.

I work as a furniture removalist 20 hours a week, i do situps and pushups every couple of days.

My daily calorie intake is about 1200 to 1500.

I tested my bodyfat percentage 2months ago on a little electronic scale and it read 15%.

I also tested myself with an online measurement bodyfat percentage calculator and that came out at 12% last week.

But, i still feel as though im a long way off getting that sixpack!!!

People around me are starting to worry im getting to thin, but i cant see how else to get a sixpack other than lose more weight. But i dont think i should get much thinner?

Ive now got a small line running up the centre of my stomach, and a groove either side of my abdomin, but nothing like bulging abbs.

Can anyone please suggest anything i could try, or stop doing, or amend in order to get over this last hurdle?

I feel fitted and stronger than ever and am very happy with my results sofar, but i would like that extra bit more definition i see some guys have.

Thank you so much for reader this, i look forward to any comments,

Cheers Matt
 
M&N said:
Over the years ive played a lot of sport and done a little bit of weights at home, but nothing too serious.
Click to expand...

You have a serious goal, so why not have a serious regimen?

Then you need to get serious.

Over the last 12months ive lost 33pounds (15kg's). Making me 137pounds (63kg's). I am now a 30inch waist and my BMI is 20.6.
Click to expand...

You need to put on some lean body mass (LBM). You're too thin.

I work as a furniture removalist 20 hours a week, i do situps and pushups every couple of days.

My daily calorie intake is about 1200 to 1500.
Click to expand...

I eat more than that to lose fat and I'm 42 yrs old.

People around me are starting to worry im getting to thin, but i cant see how else to get a sixpack other than lose more weight. But i dont think i should get much thinner?
Click to expand...

You are too thin.

You need to get a strict diet and exercise regimen going. Read the beginner section of this sticky: http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/855109121/m/156108723"

Read the entire beginner section, then come back with questions.
 
This section stood out for me as possibley the most relivant.


"First, make sure that you’re not eating too little. That seems to be a common problem. Someone does the calculations, finds their maintenance to be 3500 calories, decided that 2500 calories is too much because they ‘feel stuffed’, and drops to 2000 calories. They quickly hit a plateau where they can’t lose anymore fat, and so they think “Well, I should cut more”. When that doesn’t work, they do it again.

You’re not a bird. Stop eating like one.

I take this approach when I hit a plateau. I immediately increase calories by 250. Maybe a few bigger portions. Maybe another snack. Then I track my body fat % for two weeks. If I have kickstarted the fat loss, sweet. If I have gained fat weight, then I cut by 250 calories, and track for 2 more weeks. Play with the calorie levels – go up, go down. Give each change a few weeks so that you can accurately gauge results. Eventually you’ll find the answer. In my experience, 9 times out of 10 it’s eating too little, not too much. This is where Fitday.com becomes an invaluable website".


From what i understand good muscle definition is a product of a low bodyfat percentage. Something in the order of 5% - 9%.

But i cant understand how eating more food (calories) could possibley increase my muscle mass? Surely ill just put on more fat/weight?

How do you make sure that all of the extra calories your taking in are converted to muscle and not fat? I eat healthy, have a very physical job and exercise at home allready, and yet my body fat percentage clearly isnt low enough to see definition.

So if i increase my calorie intake, and continue with my active lifestyle ill lower my bodyfat? I find that hard to beleive. Eating more to reduce fat...

Sorry still trying to understand....
 
The body is a miracle of adaptation. That is how we are able to survive during periods of famine. As our caloric intake declines, the metabolism slows for survival, conserving for brain activity, respiration, heartbeat, etc: the functions that keep us alive, but it deprives the muscles in order to do so.

Are you able to understand now? Since you've been chronically under eating, I'd recommend you start putting on 250cals a day each week until you hit your target intake.

So, if you're eating 1500 and need to be eating 2500:

Week 1: 1750/day
Week 2: 2000/day
Week 3: 2250/day
Week 4: 2500/day

Let your metabolism increase slowly, else you'll put a lot on as fat.

Add the calories as lean protein, fat (divided among poly, mono and sat) and fibrous carbs (veggies). No sugar, no starchy carbs, no refine, processed flour.
 
Ok thank you very much for your input.

I had always figured that lowering your calorie intake like i did, while still staying active would burn up all of my fat deposits. But instead i keep loseing weight, but not gain any definition. So is my body's metabolism simply slowing down, and storeing my fat deposits, rather than burn them?

Ill look to try and fit in another couple of healthy snacks between meals.

Im still trying to get into the 5-6 smaller meals a day, rather than the typical 3 big feasts.

So perhaps another serving of fruit and veg, another small tin of tuna, and a couple of eggs to increase my calorie intake, and hopefully my metabolism.

If im able to kick start it then, my body should start to naturally burn fat deposits and develop more muscle mass, provided i stay active.

Allright, ill start tommorrow.

Cheers Matt
 
its hard to gain muscle while loosing fat, since for gaining muscle you typically need to have more cals inn than out and the other way around for fat loss. Thats why most people either Bulk (eat more and gain more muslce, some fat will also come) or cut (eat less and loose fat)
I would decide on one of them. from your diet i think your body has actually burned alot of muscle mass for energy, this is something that happenes if you dont eat enough :( this could be why you are seeing no definition.
 
Matt,

you dipped too low on calories though, and tricked the body in to thinking you were starving. The 33lbs you lost, wasn't all fat...a lot of it was lean muscle mass. If you'd had an original body fat test, we'd know pretty accurately how much muscle and fat was lost.

Also BMI figure are utterly useless. A pro bodybuilder with 5% bodyfat will have a morbidly obese BMI number. BMI makes no distinction between fat and muscle, its just purely height and weight.
 
Great, i feel now that i can start to eat more, of the right stuff.

Over the last 12months ive started to see food as the enemy, and each week that went by without a sixpack id punish myself by eating less.

As i said my family are starting to get worried, i weigh the same as my sister, and she's shorter and has a great figure.

I guess its very easy to not understand how the body works, all this time i thought a calorie intake of 1200-1500 was the path to my goal.

I dont starve myself though, whenever im hungry ill eat, but clearly with my metabolism slowing it didnt take much to fill me up. At the dinner table my portion is usually the smallest, and im the one thats the most active...

Thanks for your advise guys, ill keep you updated at how i go..

Cheers Matt
 
I'm in the same boat as you and I'm just now figuring out the same thing you are figuring out. I dropped cal intake to 1600 or so cals a day and dropped to about 5'10 133 pounds. Still no ab definition and I'm beginning to learn that it's because I don't have enough lean muscle mass to have a six pack. The most effective way to get lean muscle mass is to eat lots of good food and be around 300-500 calories above your daily maintenance requirement, get 1gram of protein per pound of body weight, and do full body workouts 3x a week. I'm hoping that this combined with HIIT should give me some big muscle gains over the next 6-8 weeks and then allow me to cut the fat away after and reveal a six pack :)
 
Cool, good to see im not alone.

Just on that, i read the term "Cutting" a few times, and my basic understanding is that its the process of trimming body fat, i know body builders do it. But im not 100% sure whats involved, and how it differs from a normal healthy diet? And what if any different fitness routines it requires?

Cheers.
 
Cutting = eating at a caloric deficit, generally 20% less than maint.
Bulking/Building = eating at a caloric surplus, generally 250-500 over maint.

Never, never eat at a cross the board figure. If someone tells you to eat 4000 calories without knowing anything about you, they are a total idiot.
 
to be defined that means you want your muscles to show,so you must have muscle in the first place,on what your eating that is highly unlikely.
muscle cannot be made from nothing you have to eat over maintanence to build muscle.
then you cut to lose the fat and show the muscle.
 
I understand that, but i dont think im in any way a little weakling. I mean i pick up fridges and sofa's every night, can do 50 push ups and can safely state i have a very strong abdominal section.


Ok i did the calorie calculator test and got a maintainance figure of 2600 calories.

But take today for example, its now bedtime and im absolutley stuffed, and yet my calories for today by my calculations was only 1400!!!!

Breakfast: Bowl of Weetbix cereal with full cream milk.
: Low fat yogurt.

Mid morning: 150gram tin of tuna.
: Peice of fruit.

Lunch : 250grams lean beef with Mash Potatoes
: Glass of OJ

Afternoon : Green tea with honey

Dinner: 1/3 of a BBQ chicken no skin.
: Serving of Vegetables
: Glass of water

I worked shifting furniture for 4 hours, took the dog for 2 walks, and did situps and push ups.

Its now bedtime and i cant physically eat anymore, and yet im well under my target calorie intake. I dont really want to start loading up on bread or sugar, so what should i do?

If "Cutting" is eating less than your calorie maintainance level, then whats the difference between that and what im doing?

Thanks guys,
 
because you've starved for so long, the stomach is small. it'll take a few weeks to get to where you can eat 2400 cals a day comfortably, which is why Cynic suggested upping it by just 200 cals a day for a week, then add another 200 for a week ,until you hit the 'target' calorie intake.

ditch the OJ. OJ has as much sugar as a can of soda. eat a couple oranges instead, less sugar, and you'll get more fiber.

if you can get some protein powder, it'll help. a typical 20g shake is 100 calories but not very filling at all, which can help you get more food without feeling bloated.

just give ti time. there's nothing fast about training, muscle gain or fat loss.
 
Im curious to know how long a bulk cycle should last...is it a certain time frame or when you feel its enough or does your body just start storing the excess as fat? Too many of my friends have been bulking for months... Im talking like 6+ months and I think their obsessed with getting much bigger, so I dont really take their advice. I have the same goals that M&N is having where I am not trying to get huge...just be better defined with a little more muscle and great abs. I am 24 yrs old @ 5'7" and started at 196 lbs and a 36" waist in Dec. '05 and have gotten down to 148 lbs and a 30" waist since. The last time my bf % was checked was 3 weeks ago at the gym and it was at 10.7. My stomach tends to sink in the middle as though it appears Im trying to suck in but im not. This problem of not seeing the definition has plagued me for some time now.
 
bulking, anywhere from 1-4 months, depending on who you ask.

to me, a minimum of 6 weeks is really needed to get into a full bulking mode. more than 3 months yer prolly gonna put on a little too much fat unless you're really clean i your bulk or just have good genetics for adding mass.
 
Well im going strong.

Im up from 1200-1300 calories a day, to 1500-1700 calories a day. But not feeling stuffed, so clearly my stomachs capacity is increaseing.

Ive added 6-8 eggs a week to my diet, scrambled with a light spray of olive oil, tuna is still a main staple, and steak. Ive also adopted Green tea as my prefered beverage.

Ive put on 1kg (2.2pounds) and the last 3 online bodyfat calculators have all resulted in the 10%-12% bracket.

Ive started to use a bit of weight now when doing my abbs, and i feel like its helping. Still no sixpack, but my stomachs dead flat and rock hard, so im still feeling good about it.

Just wanted to confirm how much water should i be haveing a day?

Also how long before bed should i stop eating?

And am i better off eating before or after a workout?

Cheers guys...
 
You should drink between 1/2 and one full gallon. More if you sweat a lot on the job.

You can eat all the way up to bedtime, provided you selected the right combos. I've done cottage cheese w/ a scoop of whey and veggies, but basically, you want protein and fat, no simple carbs whatsoever and the only carbs should come from vegetables, preferably leafy green or cruciferous (sp?).

How long is your workout? Mine is about 1.5-2hours so I have my shake, then an 1-1.5 hours later I have a P+F feeding.
 
Ok, thanks.

Just another quick query, i know what a safe/normal amount of weight to lose a week should be while dieting/cutting.

But whats a normal amount of weight to be gained a week, in terms of muscle? I mean if i put on 5pounds in one week could it all be muscle? Or would there be some fat in there aswell?

And also, can i still drink alcohol? Or is it simply off limits if you want to be really serious?

Thanks
 
No, In either direction, rapid weight gain is probably going on as a lot of fat, rapid weight loss is likely a lot of muscle loss.

Aim for 1-2lbs per week.

I would go with a non or low carb alcohol: liquor or wine.
 
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