New User: Calorie Counting Experience

H

Holloway

New member
Hey I'm Holloway. I'm new to this forum and to dieting generally. I'm male, 39 years old, 180cm and 90kgs.

Recently I decided that a very simple way to lose weight would be to run a caloric deficit. I found out that with a sedentary lifestyle I should burn around 2100 calories per day. And with the additional exercise I do (playing golf pulling clubs and a mixture of walking/jogging on the beach), I should burn an extra 400 (net 300) per hour. And everything I ate with the exception of 1 pizza (estimated 1800 calories) had the number of calories on the label. So I started tracking everything (all figures accurate to + or - 50 using the above assumptions).

Starting weight (1st thing in morning after bathroom before eating/drinking anything): 89.8kg

Day 1: Calories in: 1150 Calories out: 3450 Deficit: 2300 Running Deficit: 2300
Day 2: Calories in: 800 Calories out: 3600 Deficit: 2800 Running Deficit: 5100
Day 3: Calories in: 2100 Calories out: 2100 Deficit: 0 Running Deficit: 5100
Day 4: Calories in: 800 Calories out: 2100 Deficit: 1300 Running Deficit: 6400
Day 5: Calories in: 1450 Calories out: 3600 Deficit: 2150 Running Deficit: 8550
Day 6: Calories in: 1850 Calories out: 2850 Deficit: 1000 Running Deficit: 9550
Day 7: Calories in: 0 Calories out: 2100 Deficit: 2100 Running Deficit: 11650

Expected weight after 7 days: 88.3kg. Actual Weight: 89.8kg

Something's wrong. This week I'll try spiking and fasting more so metabolism doesn't reset.

Day 8: Calories in: 1500 Calories out: 2100 Deficit: 600 Running Deficit: 12250
Day 9: Calories in: 6500 Calories out: 2100 Surplus: 4400 Running Deficit: 7850
Day 10: Calories in: 0 Calories out: 3300 Deficit: 3300 Running Deficit: 11150
Day 11: Calories in: 0 Calories out: 3750 Deficit: 3750 Running Deficit: 14900
Day 12: Calories in: 1200 Calories out: 2100 Deficit: 900 Running Deficit: 15800
Day 13: Calories in: 1150 Calories out: 3300 Deficit: 2150 Running Deficit: 17950
Day 14: Calories in: 0 Calories out: 5100 Deficit: 5100 Running Deficit: 23050

Expected weight after 14 days: 86.8kg. Actual Weight: 90.0kg.

By my calculations 23050 calories should convert to about 3kgs lost. I've gained 0.2kg. And that last weight measurement this morning was after 5 days of significant deficits and a decent bowel movement! Something is very wrong. I know the calories in are pretty accurate - they're almost all straight off the labels. I don't do strength training so I doubt I'm gaining muscle while losing fat. Is it possible I only burn 1000 calories per day through normal activities and say 150 per hour extra golfing/jogging? Maybe I'm retaining water weight and it will all drop off suddenly soon? Or is the calories in calories out idea just nonsense that needs to be discarded and the breakdown of them is what's actually important? I realize 2 weeks is nothing but I can't see the point of continuing down this road if it doesn't work.

Love to hear any ideas!
 
Firsly, What was your calorie intake before starting your diet ?

How did you calculate your needed calories and how does it compare to your pre diet calorie intake.

Basing your calorie intake on BMR + modifiers will only ever be an estimate unless measured in a lab, use it as a starting point only. Over estimating the calories used during exercise is also often over estimated.

Information that is useful for us to help solve your problem
 
Firsly, What was your calorie intake before starting your diet ?

Before these last 2 weeks I never measured it. It was certainly higher than 1300 average per day but probably not more than 2000.

How did you calculate your needed calories and how does it compare to your pre diet calorie intake. Basing your calorie intake on BMR + modifiers will only ever be an estimate unless measured in a lab, use it as a starting point only. Over estimating the calories used during exercise is also often over estimated.

The 2100 per day expectation was just the lowest I found for a sedentary lifestyle based on my BMI from the various calculators. Same for golf pulling clubs and walking and jogging on the beach.

here is a lecture that might explain why your plan may not be working as well as you think it should...

So he's saying the calories in calories out idea is nonsense because the metabolism just adjusts to it. Fair enough so the figures demonstrate I'm down to burning about 1000 calories per day then. His alternative is fasting - which I did for 4 of the last 14 days with negative results. I wonder if a longer term fast is the trick - maybe getting back into eating again after 48 hours was the problem and the real effects come after that. If that's the case, what's the maximum amount of calories I can eat per day to remain in a fasted state for more than say a week when water fasting is no longer viable?
 
i have seen opinions vary from you should take in nothing but water to up to 50 kcal/ day to keep your body in a fasting state. i have been on an intermittent fast for about 3 months now with the best results i have ever had when attempting a weight loss. as far as i have heard, there are only two ways to get to fat for energy... 1) drastically reduce carbohydrates for every meal so your body will not produce enough insulin to store fat, but rather remain in a ketogenic state where you will constantly tap fat resources for energy. 2) fasting to the point you delete your glucose store when you body starts to burn fat (aerobic lipolysis). both methods apparently trigger a ketogenic state. i just find the intermittent fasting method easier as i don't have to pay a lot of attention to where my calories come from. i have lowered my carb intake, but not to the point of a keto diet.
 
I have been keto for years, but I do not do IF as a deliberate strategy, having said that Intermittent fasting does work but fasts longer than 3 days are often considered medical fasts. Calorie counting can also work but having massive amounts of calories before your fast is counter productive.

Calorie counting is usually a good first step for those looking to loose weight as it starts to establish a habit of tracking food intake before it get more complicated with tracking macro nutrients and further tracking to ensure a proper nutritional mix of vitamins and minerals.

There are many ways to do fasting and there are a few members here who do different forms of fasting.

If you get your macro nutrients correct then your calorie count will simply fall into place.

While there is debate out there about exercise calories, in general you should not count them as contributing to your calorie deficit, as most people do over estimate the value of the exercise they are doing and or do not do the exercise at the intensity assumed in the calorie count.

You make no mention of what your actually eating, or the intensity/type of running you are doing on the beach, doing long slow runs on the beach combined with not getting enough protein on fast days and low calorie day can have an adverse effect on your lean muscle mass.

If you still want to do long runs or lots of other exercise during fast periods then a PSMF (Protein Sparing Modified Fast) approach may meet your needs better.
 
In relation to the calories burned section, I know my calories consumed was 18500 for the 2 weeks and the weight gained was 0.2kgs, so I can deduce the calories burned was about 17000 or roughly 1215 per day. That seemed unreasonably low for a 39yo, 180cm, 90kg male doing nothing but sleeping much less one averaging 3 hours moderate intensity exercise per day. If the calories in calories out idea has merit and my results for the 2 weeks are my normal, it means eating 1300 calories per day is likely to result in significant weight gain over time regardless of exercise, where I assumed 1800 calories per day would result in significant weight loss over time regardless of exercise, and exercise would increase it.

I didn't track exactly what I ate (the vast majority was freezer food - chicken kievs, salt and pepper squid, battered fish, etc. heated up in the microwave, plus the odd protein shake/bar) - I was working on the assumption that all calories are basically the same for weight loss. I was hoping to hear that others had a similar experience early on and then one day suddenly it all dropped off out of the blue - the body was just retaining too much water or something. But it sounds like my metabolism is actually so bad that I burn significantly less calories daily than an 80yo 40kg woman and that just isn't going to change with this method so I need to try something else.

If fasting is the alternative to lose weight quickly and pull my metabolism back to somewhere near human being levels, I'm happy to try it. I had 4 days in the last 2 weeks (3 in the last 5 days) where I ate no calories at all and just drank water, but the guy in the video was talking about 30+ day fasts and even one fast for over a year, so he must be talking about something else which involves taking in some calories but is still called a fast in order to keep at it long term. I'm happy to experiment with fasting for the next 30 days, but I need to work out what I can consume and still remain "fasted" because my current water fasts couldn't possibly be recommended for that long.
 
Holloway said:
In relation to the calories burned section, I know my calories consumed was 18500 for the 2 weeks and the weight gained was 0.2kgs, so I can deduce the calories burned was about 17000 or roughly 1215 per day.
Click to expand...

While your averages look ok, the days with extra high calories( like day 9) while also eating high carb foods like your battered fish and chicken kiev will trigger the release of insulin to convert all that extra energy into stored fat, this is killing any progress your may be making during your fast. Non fast days still need to be within a reasonable calorie limit.

You also do not say what you are drinking.

Protein shakes are also usually high carb unless you are specifically looking for a low carb shake, reading the nutrition label is important.

Most people who fast will not fast for days at a time, instead the will choose to eat in an 8 hour window each day, and not eat anything the rest of the day. For those who do long multi day fast, they will usually make sure to continue to consume electrolytes.

You also need to remember, the human body is not a simple machine, strict formula does not work, there is too many variables, also fluctuations are normal, so looking at longer term trends is important.

I also note that you are only 9 kg over weight based on BMI, you may be carrying more excess fat than this depending on your muscle mass, If you have low muscle then your metabolism will be adversely affected.

the lower your weight the harder it is to loose.
 
While your averages look ok, the days with extra high calories( like day 9) while also eating high carb foods like your battered fish and chicken kiev will trigger the release of insulin to convert all that extra energy into stored fat, this is killing any progress your may be making during your fast. Non fast days still need to be within a reasonable calorie limit.

The reason the 2nd week looks so strange (6500 calories one day and 3 complete water fast days) was because I was concerned about the lack of progress in week 1 and was trying to shake up my metabolism so it didn't get accustomed to the daily deficits. I probably went overboard that one day but that was kinda the idea - at that point I was expecting to finish with 5 complete water fast days but only ended up doing 3.

You also do not say what you are drinking.

Mostly water and mineral water (5kj/L). I drank Coke on day 9 but that was included in the 6500.

Protein shakes are also usually high carb unless you are specifically looking for a low carb shake, reading the nutrition label is important.

Mine is 30g protein, 1.2g fat (0.7g saturated fat) and 9.1g carbohydrate in the 170 calories. I had one every morning except the fast days and included it in the total counts.

Most people who fast will not fast for days at a time, instead the will choose to eat in an 8 hour window each day, and not eat anything the rest of the day.

Oh is that what you mean by fasting? I'm already doing that unintentionally basically everyday and have been for ages. I actually thought part of the reason for my bad metabolism might be that I've only really eaten 1-2 meals per day for about 20 years now and it has gradually adjusted.

I also note that you are only 9 kg over weight based on BMI, you may be carrying more excess fat than this depending on your muscle mass, If you have low muscle then your metabolism will be adversely affected.

the lower your weight the harder it is to loose.

I'm 9kg over the absolute upper limit of the healthy weight range but probably 15kg over where I should be. The figures I was relying on accounted for that BMI and were at the lower end of calories burned expectations on the various calculators so I was really expecting 3kg to be the minimum weight loss from the 14 days, but even 1.5-2kg would have encouraged me to stay with it. Gaining weight with such a huge deficit made me think something was wrong and I had to change approach.

I'm not sure how long I can safely water fast but I'll try 5 days starting tomorrow (bearing in mind 3 of the last 6 days have already been water fasts) and see if that leads anywhere, then work out where to go from there. I don't think the 8 hour window for eating idea means anything for me - at a guess 80% of days for the last 20 years have already fit that criteria - probably 40% have been within a 1 hour window.
 
Interesting, maybe what u know about what you should eat is completely wrong that why things doesnt work out that way they should be.
 
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