New Four day split routine. Advice needed.

T

Tomahawk

0
Hey guys. I have just started a new Four day split routine. My overall goal is to lose weight and gain strength. Recently, I have been doing a full body routine, unfortunately I hate full body workouts as I feel I am not focusing enough on each individual body part. In addition to weight training I will be doing cardio 3 times a week in the Am on an empty stomach to help accelerate fat lose.

Below is my newly created 4 day Split it goes like this.
Day 1 - Back/Biceps
Day 2 - Chest/Triceps
Day 3 - Off
Day 4 - Legs
Day 5 - Shoulders/Abs

Day 1
Back
Standing lat Row
Wide Pulldowns
Stiff Arm Pulldown

Biceps
Standing Biceps Curl
Hammer Curls
Concentration Curl
Preacher Curls


Day 2
Chest
Bench Press
Incline Chest Fly
Chest Fly

Triceps
Tricep Pushdown
French Press
Tricep Kickback

Day 3 - Off

Day 4
Legs
Leg Curls
Leg Extensions
Leg Press
Calf Raises

Day 5
Shoulders
Front Shoulder Raise
Lateral Shoulder Raise
Seated Shoulder Press
Shoulder Shrug

Abs
Abdominal Crunch
Reverse Crunch
Trunk Rotation
 
I think you've got too much curling and extensions in there.

Also on back days, id start off with Deadlifts, Leg days i'd add squats at least in there, try get some lunges in as well. All the leg extensions/curls aren't always necessary.
 
Tomahawk said:
Hey guys. I have just started a new Four day split routine. My overall goal is to lose weight and gain strength. Recently, I have been doing a full body routine, unfortunately I hate full body workouts as I feel I am not focusing enough on each individual body part.
Click to expand...

I've come to believe that a lot of people avoid FBWs for this very reason. As I understand it (and I could be wrong), focusing more on individual body parts is not going to bring any benefit over a FBW. But, then again everyone is different and if you're hell bent on doing a split, try it out.

However, I would urge you to add Squats, Deadlifts, and Military Presses to your routine in place of some of the exercises you listed.
 
Back and biceps on day 1 then immediately chest/tris on day 2? no, no

Put a break between those two. Your back muscles and chest muscles are big and need ample recovery time, and so does your nervous system.

Also you said you want strength gains... focus on low reps and high # of sets. You should be maxing out at around 4--5 reps.
 
IN CAPS....MY OPINION....
Tomahawk said:
Hey guys. I have just started a new Four day split routine. My overall goal is to lose weight and gain strength. Recently, I have been doing a full body routine, unfortunately I hate full body workouts as I feel I am not focusing enough on each individual body part. In addition to weight training I will be doing cardio 3 times a week in the Am on an empty stomach to help accelerate fat lose.

Below is my newly created 4 day Split it goes like this.
Day 1 - Back/Biceps
Day 2 - Chest/Triceps
Day 3 - Off
Day 4 - Legs
Day 5 - Shoulders/Abs

Day 1
Back
Standing lat Row
Wide Pulldowns
Stiff Arm Pulldown - DITCH AND REPLACE W/DEADLIFTS


Biceps
Standing Biceps Curl
Hammer Curls
Concentration Curl - DITCH
Preacher Curls - DITCH


Day 2
Chest
Bench Press
Incline Chest Fly
Chest Fly - DITCH AND REPLACE WITH INCLINE PRESS

Triceps
Tricep Pushdown
French Press
Tricep Kickback

Day 3 - Off

Day 4
Legs
Leg Curls
Leg Extensions
Leg Press
Calf Raises
ADD SQUATS

Day 5
Shoulders
Front Shoulder Raise
Lateral Shoulder Raise
Seated Shoulder Press
Shoulder Shrug
GOOD


Abs
Abdominal Crunch
Reverse Crunch
Trunk Rotation -ID DITCH AND REPLACE WITH LEG LIFTS
Click to expand...

What does your set/rep scheme look like?
 
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For Legs, throw in SQUAT man. For chest / tricep, add in DIPS. Oh for leg days, try to avoid doing cardio. Beside that, all looks good; remember DIETING is key to your goal as well.

If you are trying to lose weight, cut calorie but keep 1g of protein per 1 lb of LBM.
 
I already explained it... but I'll go into greater detail for those who are curious. There are 3 muscle groups which should... IMO never be worked back-to-back.

Chest, Back & Legs (quads and hams). You should have one day minimum between working out each one.

Reasoning is simple... the bigger the muscle group, the more recovery time it needs... but muscles cannot being recovery until your nervous system has repaired itself.... which takes about 24-36 hours on average.

ONLY THEN will it trigger your muscles to being recovery. Now... working which muscle group taxes the nervous system to it's max? Right, the BIGGEST ONES.

Now combine all of that and you will realize that you need more recovery time:

Nervous system needs to recover, then it signals your larger muscle groups to recover... which takes it own sweet ass time over something that recovers in about a day... such as your biceps.

Here's what my current week looks like:

Day 1: Back/Bicpes & Abs
Day 2: Rest + General Stretching
Day 3: Legs & Triceps
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Abs + General Stretching
Day 6: Chest & Shoulders
Day 7: Rest

It's a little unorthodox, but the results cannot be denied. Another
thing I do is change up everything every 3 weeks. Keep that body
guessing.

Now, Am I saying this is the ONLY wait to train? Don't be ridiculous, people DO
train large muscle groups back to back and some see decent progress...

But IMO, what I mentioned is the most efficient. Which means you will get the
most out of your workouts by following that little principal.

In the end... you don't even have to take my word for it. Just go try it out, and
see for yourself.

Make sure your eating habits are solid though.

Cheers.
 
marko157 said:
You`ll have to forgive me because i`m as dumb as a blunt spoon.

But you class back and chest as one muscle group????
Click to expand...

Nah, I think he's saying that working one major muscle group will hinder the repair and growth being done on a different muscle group if trained too close together.

I don't really agree with that, although you could argue that running upper push/pull days in succession would be tough on the shoulders
 
marko157 said:
You`ll have to forgive me because i`m as dumb as a blunt spoon.

But you class back and chest as one muscle group????
Click to expand...


LOL... thx for the clarification Typhon.

Just out of curiosity... what don't you agree with? The fact that bigger muscles take longer to recover... or the fact that working them too closely will hinder growth?

Because you really just have to try this out for 2 weeks and you'll notice a huge difference. I know I did...

Cheers.
 
fitslug said:
LOL... thx for the clarification Typhon.

Just out of curiosity... what don't you agree with? The fact that bigger muscles take longer to recover... or the fact that working them too closely will hinder growth?

Because you really just have to try this out for 2 weeks and you'll notice a huge difference. I know I did...

Cheers.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that the reason for not working them back to back is because a deconditioned/overtrained CNS will hinder the repair/rebuild process of new muscle tissue?
 
fitslug said:
Just out of curiosity... what don't you agree with? The fact that bigger muscles take longer to recover... or the fact that working them too closely will hinder growth?
Click to expand...

I agree that large muscle groups take longer to recover, I just can't imagine why training legs would hinder the muscle repair process in your back.

Perhaps it would if your diet was lacking and you didn't have the required amino acids to rebuild the muscle fibres in your legs and back at the same time but if your diet was in check I imagine you could do it just fine
 
I read somewhere else that FBW (full body workout) is preferable for a noob and its a mistake to try and copy the pros with (likely inefficient) splits such as the one here. There are no Squats or Deadlifts for one in this new workout and it would be good to see what he was doing as FBW. Everybody is different but this workout is clearly lacking something.
 
fitslug said:
I already explained it... but I'll go into greater detail for those who are curious. There are 3 muscle groups which should... IMO never be worked back-to-back.

Chest, Back & Legs (quads and hams). You should have one day minimum between working out each one.

Reasoning is simple... the bigger the muscle group, the more recovery time it needs... but muscles cannot being recovery until your nervous system has repaired itself.... which takes about 24-36 hours on average.

ONLY THEN will it trigger your muscles to being recovery. Now... working which muscle group taxes the nervous system to it's max? Right, the BIGGEST ONES.

Now combine all of that and you will realize that you need more recovery time:

Nervous system needs to recover, then it signals your larger muscle groups to recover... which takes it own sweet ass time over something that recovers in about a day... such as your biceps.

Here's what my current week looks like:

Day 1: Back/Bicpes & Abs
Day 2: Rest + General Stretching
Day 3: Legs & Triceps
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Abs + General Stretching
Day 6: Chest & Shoulders
Day 7: Rest

It's a little unorthodox, but the results cannot be denied. Another
thing I do is change up everything every 3 weeks. Keep that body
guessing.

Now, Am I saying this is the ONLY wait to train? Don't be ridiculous, people DO
train large muscle groups back to back and some see decent progress...

But IMO, what I mentioned is the most efficient. Which means you will get the
most out of your workouts by following that little principal.

In the end... you don't even have to take my word for it. Just go try it out, and
see for yourself.

Make sure your eating habits are solid though.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to how the CNS is damaged when training so it needs to repair itself. Any sources I could read up on? And what makes you so sure that the need to repair is in the CNS and not local (IE at the muscles themselves, like at the neuromuscular junction)? Or hell, it could even be local within the CNS, if the damage somehow affects the MUs that have been used. I'm throwing this out there because if it does exist and is local, then you don't need to wait for it to repair before you train another muscle groups. If it's not local, though, you will have to wait.. al though this would mean that all splits that have back to back workout days are very inefficient since you would eventually "build up" damage in the CNS.
 
Karky said:
although this would mean that all splits that have back to back workout days are very inefficient since you would eventually "build up" damage in the CNS.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
If You want to read up on that... read "Designing Resistance Training Programs" - Steven J. Fleck & William J Kreamer.

It goes in-depth about nervous systems and how it affects recovery. It's a great read.

Charles Poliquin himself stated that:

"Training more frequently tends to lead to overtraining not so much at the
level of the muscle cell but at the nervous system level. In other words, it
is hard to recruit high threshold motor units training at high intensities for
more than two days in arrow."

If you don't know who he is... seriously... what are you doing here? =)

But just as a side note... he is probably the #1 Strength Trainer on the planet. When Olympic Athletes need results... that's where they go.

And Karky, he is you perfect example of the science nerd who practices what he preaches. Have you seen the guy? He's Massive.

TYPHON: "I agree that large muscle groups take longer to recover, I just can't imagine why training legs would hinder the muscle repair process in your back."

Because you use the same nervous system whether you work your legs or your back.

Some of the Worlds TOP Strength Athletes rest for a WEEK.... some times TWO. That's not something we need to do, but its something to think about.

Last but not least... stop reading and start doing. Being a fitness keyboard jockey won't get you that six pack. It's good to be a skeptic to some degree but eventually... you're gona hafta get out there and make up your own mind.

Cheers

- FJ
 
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