Need Advice re Strength Training & Weight Loss

Gryphon1

New member
Hi, new here, hope some of the local experts can help clear up some issues I may be having.

Age 31
Height 5'10
Starting Weight 297
Current Weight 264
Goal Weight <200
Calorie Intake 1800-2200/day.

I played hockey at 195 and felt VERY healthy.

Back Ground
I decided I needed to lose weight, bought the biggest loser cookbook and went from eating McD's 2-3 times/day to healthy food 29 out of 30 days a month. Lost ~25 lbs doing this in 2-3 months.

In the past 3 weeks I started to weight train. Bench/Bar/dumbell excerises every other day starting at 3 sets, now at 5 sets and increasing weights on some excercises. Lift 10 reps/set and usually fail on the last set. Takes approx 50 min to complete.

Goal is to lose weight and increase muscle mass (biceps mostly as I am broad shouldered already).

Last 2 weeks I have started to ride the bike 5-6 days a week up the escarpment which takes approx 35 min up, and 25 min down. This is very hard and intense for me.

Question I have is, my brother (professional hockey player) has suggested that I am not losing weight doing this ride as I am in an anaerobic state and thus I should only be doing this on alternate days from working out. If I need to ride the bike everyday (which I enjoy) only every other up the hill and the others on a flat leisurely ride. My legs are well enough toned and I ride the bike mostly to increase cardio and loose weight.

Thanks for any input,
 
I can tell you right now that you're doing too much. Recovery is something most people forget about. They like the idea of beating their body into submission. And yea, it might work in the short term... but in the long term, it's a surefire way to injury, plateaus and frustration.

You're new to weight lifting. You are also carrying around some extra fat. What this means is you are primed for concurrent fat loss and muscle gain. Losing fat and gaining muscle simultaneously is not something easy to do. In fact, it's pretty much impossible for the leaner, more trained individual. But when the 'environment is right', as is the case with you, it's possible.

This does not mean, however, that you should be overextending yourself in terms of volume and intensity with the weights. Which you are.

In general, the greater the caloric deficit the lower your recoverability. Have you heard of periodization? Periodization is simply planning your exercise and more specifically, it's balancing out the application of stress (exercise) and recovery (rest) in so that over time, you're improving (strength, muscle, etc). If recovery isn't considered, bad things happen.

Given this reduced recoverability, what you should be doing while dieting is training for muscle maintenance... not growth. If growth happens, which in your case, as noted above, probably will... then great.

Training for hypertrophy (muscle growth) is the same concept as training to maintain muscle while dieting; the difference is in the amount of volume and progression in weight that you can support. Maintaining requires much less volume, and in turn represents much less of a stress on the system.

Put differently, err towards doing fewer, heavier sets. To be frank, I don't see the point in doing more than 2-3 sets of 5-10 reps on the big barbell lifts, and not much else, if you're eating under maintenance. You want just enough to activate all the biochemical signaling (good, because this tells the body not to take that muscle away), but not so much that you wreck the muscle (bad, because it requires a lot of nutrients to repair, and if you're under your maintenance level, you don't have those to spare).

Then, in terms of cardio, my take is to do as much as you have to in order to a) maintain/improve cardiovascular health and b) generate the caloric deficit required to shed fat.

Maintaining cardiovascular health isn't tough. A few sessions of moderate cardio will suffice each week.

How much cardio you need to do in terms of generating a large enough deficit for fat loss depends completely on your nutrition. In your case, you're eating 8ish calories per pound of total body weight. Less on most days, probably. That's low, given your size. With that said, you shouldn't need to be doing intense bike riding day in and out.

If you want to, that's a different story. But don't do that every day. 1-2 session of that is fine. Add in some lower intensity stuff if you feel the need.

I decided I needed to lose weight, bought the biggest loser cookbook and went from eating McD's 2-3 times/day to healthy food 29 out of 30 days a month. Lost ~25 lbs doing this in 2-3 months.

That's pretty awesome. I love hearing about people simply cleaning up their diets and how successful this makes them. Congrats.

In the past 3 weeks I started to weight train. Bench/Bar/dumbell excerises every other day starting at 3 sets, now at 5 sets and increasing weights on some excercises. Lift 10 reps/set and usually fail on the last set. Takes approx 50 min to complete.

Are training in a gym?

I'd be interested in seeing what your program looks like, exactly.

Most importantly, you don't want to be training to failure. Especially when dieting. It's just too stressful and it's not giving you anything special in terms of muscle maintenance/growth.

Muscular failure is more a neurological phenomenon than anything else.

Also, see everything above.

Goal is to lose weight and increase muscle mass (biceps mostly as I am broad shouldered already).

Picking and choosing where you want to grow is generally not the best idea. Our bodies work as an overall unit. Rarely does it work in isolation. That said, it responds better to training that emphasizes a balanced approach using compound exercises.

Last 2 weeks I have started to ride the bike 5-6 days a week up the escarpment which takes approx 35 min up, and 25 min down. This is very hard and intense for me.

See above.

Question I have is, my brother (professional hockey player) has suggested that I am not losing weight doing this ride as I am in an anaerobic state and thus I should only be doing this on alternate days from working out.

Your brother is wrong. Damn good hockey player, I'm sure. Physiologist he is not. :)

*******

To recap, I'd do something like a full body weight training routine 2-3 times per week focusing on 3 sets of 5-10 reps, for example.

On the days you weight train, you should do your intense bike rides.

On your off days, you should do your lower intensity cardio

Questions?
 
Thanks for the awesome reply. I have read your answer 3 times trying to take it all in and make sense of it.

Current weight training is as follows (all 5 sets each);

Bench 10 reps (as I have no spotter I do a light amount to be safe, never fail)
E Z Curl Bar (biceps palms facing in) 10 reps never fail
Alternating Dumbell curls (10 each arm), fail in 5 set
Barbell rows 10 reps, never fail
Tricep extensions (seated dumbell extension) 2 handed 20 reps, never fail
preacher curl 10 reps each arm, failure in 4/5 sets
E Z Bar Curl Tricep (palms on flat part of the bar, slightly facing outwards) 10 reps each, failure in 5 set

rest for approx 30 secs inbetween each excercise.
1 set takes approx 10 min.

So if I am reading your answer you suggest the following,

work out 3 times a week, 3 sets heavier weights
ride the bike on the same days (uphill etc.)
easy flat bike ride on "off" days and
1 day/week with nothing

Questions/Comments/Ideas

1 hour a day is much easier to find then 2 hours every other day for me. I thought that since I am stressing different parts of my body on alternating days this would be ok, but you are suggesting to do a heavy bike ride the same day as I work out. I find when I do this I can't lift as hard.

My I realize that a total body workout is better for you but I have been concentrating on my arms/upper body figuring that the bike will take care of the lower body.

My brother would like to start training with me now that he is done playing hockey fulltime and that 1 day/week would be a day of "other" excersies involving plyometrics and core excercises.

If I seem confused , its because I am, I am having trouble getting over the idea "more isnt better".

So in summary, out of the following options what combination would you suggest to lose weight and add muscle to the upper body.

- hard uphill bike ride
- casual level bike ride
- weight training 3 sets ?? reps
- weight training 5 sets ?? reps
- plyometrics

BTW I work out at home, have the basics, bench with preacher curl platform, 2 bars, 3 dumbells, E Z Curl bar

Thank you very much.
 
Thanks for the awesome reply. I have read your answer 3 times trying to take it all in and make sense of it.

Anytime.

Current weight training is as follows (all 5 sets each);

Bench 10 reps (as I have no spotter I do a light amount to be safe, never fail)
E Z Curl Bar (biceps palms facing in) 10 reps never fail
Alternating Dumbell curls (10 each arm), fail in 5 set
Barbell rows 10 reps, never fail
Tricep extensions (seated dumbell extension) 2 handed 20 reps, never fail
preacher curl 10 reps each arm, failure in 4/5 sets
E Z Bar Curl Tricep (palms on flat part of the bar, slightly facing outwards) 10 reps each, failure in 5 set

Yea, this is pretty bad regardless of goals.

Put it this way; I've seens dozens if not hundreds of guys in my time come in and blast the beach muscles day in and day out in the gym.

They destroy their arms like there's not tomorrow. They go until they can't. Their arms swell with blood to the point where they feel like they'd have trouble scratching their back of combing their hair.

At the end of the day, they're shrimps, lol.

Unless you are genetically inclined to add mass amounts of muscle to your arms, trainging the way you are is going to do nothing good... possibly even hinder your progress.

All guys want big arms. I get that.

So do I.

More often than not, my arm training is limited to 2 sets of curls each week and 2 sets of extensions.

Read that again.

Why?

Because that's direct arm work.

Indirectly I crush my arms with heavy rowing and pressing. Real heavy. What people forget is your biceps and triceps are helping move these heavy weights involved in the big compound lifts.

So lifting with the big exercises (presses, rows, etc) and blasting your arms the way that you are is simply too much. I wouldn't even do that if I were bulking up. I would no doubt never do that while dieting.

It's easy to get caught up trying to force your body into a particular mold you're shooting for but unfortunately that is not how our bodies adapt. The fact that you are dieting, as I said above, means muscle growth is going to be hard to come by. Recover, too, is going to be down. You MUST be economical (wise) in your selection of what you do in the weight room.

What's best for maintaining muscle?

Compound exercises.

You're currently doing, primarily, isolation exercises.

Seeing the big picture?

rest for approx 30 secs inbetween each excercise.
1 set takes approx 10 min.

If you switch to something like what I'm suggesting, I suggest resting 90s or so between the big lifts. You're trying to lift a good amount of weight relative to your strength to send the signal to your body to preserve the muscle you currently have while dieting. Circuit-esque training isn't conducive for said signaling.

Circuit-esque = high volume, low rest

The low rest hinders or limits the amount of weight you can put on the bar. This will make more sense when you develop a more effective routine using the bigger lifts.

So if I am reading your answer you suggest the following,

work out 3 times a week, 3 sets heavier weights
ride the bike on the same days (uphill etc.)
easy flat bike ride on "off" days and
1 day/week with nothing

Pretty much. Nothing I say is written in stone. Nor is anything else anyone else says, no matter how they say it. A lot of people like you to believe that there is One Perfect Way to train for a given goal and there simply isn't. It's an art more than it's a science.

What I'm suggesting is 2-3 full body sessions per week using 2-3 sets of 5-10 reps of compound lifts. You can add some fluff stuff in at the end if you'd like, such as a couple of sets for arms. Emphasis on 'a couple'!

Ideally you ride bike intensely on days you strength train... but that's assuming your weight training your legs during each session, which I'll discuss below.

How many days off is up to you. If you feel the need or have the desire to do low intensity bike rides on all of your 'off' days but one, so be it. I see no harm in that.

1 hour a day is much easier to find then 2 hours every other day for me. I thought that since I am stressing different parts of my body on alternating days this would be ok, but you are suggesting to do a heavy bike ride the same day as I work out. I find when I do this I can't lift as hard.

Firstly, going by what I suggest, you will not be training 2 hours every other day. If you go to my initial post, I suggest riding your uphill bike rides once per week... twice if you feel the need.

Secondly, the only reason I recommend that is to allow more recovery time. This is part of that whole, 'being economical with your training' thingy majigger. Ideally you group intense exercise which creates 'rest cushions' throughout the week.

If your training was something like this:

Day 1: Weights
Day 2: Intense Cycling
Day 3: Weights
Day 4: Intense Cycling
Day 5: Weights
Day 6: Intense Cycling

Then you really don't have any recovery time. And you might be okay with that right now. We all have different recoverabilities based on genetics, diet, lifestyle outside of training, etc, etc. I tend to err on the safe side, personally and with my clients for the simple fact that I've seen what the 'beating your body into submission' route leads to. And it ain't pretty. I did it for 2 years and was left with a bum shoulder and elbow that still affect me to this day.

To boot, given that fact that you're eating pretty low calories given your stats, that reduces your ability to handle intense bouts of exercise.

Instead, in the above example I'd consolidate your intense bouts so it looked something like:

Day 1: Weights/Cycling
Day 2: Low/moderate intensity cardio
Day 3: Weights
Day 4: Low/moderate intensity cardio
Day 5: Weights/Cycling
Day 6: Rest/active recovery
Day 7: Rest/active recovery

With this, you've cut your intensity bouts down in half, from 6 to 3, allowing much more time for recovery.

It's important to note that fatigue is accumulative. It builds up over time like a ticking time bomb unless you manage it appropriately and that's where the whole concept of periodization comes into play.

My I realize that a total body workout is better for you but I have been concentrating on my arms/upper body figuring that the bike will take care of the lower body.

You realize it's better for you but you're not doing it, lol.

Define what you mean by "the bike will take care of the legs."

Biking isn't going to build gigantic muscles in your legs. And it's not going to do much in terms of preserving the muscles you currently have while dieting. It's a muscular endurance exercise. You need to have some muscular strength work thrown into the mix.

My brother would like to start training with me now that he is done playing hockey fulltime and that 1 day/week would be a day of "other" excersies involving plyometrics and core excercises.

Hmmm, why plyos?
 
Thanks again for your time.

First question is, what is active recovery? What would that entail?

Second what kind of weight lifting routine do you suggest? I guess I need to be spoonfed here. I have listed what I have available to me and I have no spotter so any bench etc excercise can not be too heavy.

Thats all for now as I am at work, but I am sure I will have more.

Thanks,
 
First question is, what is active recovery? What would that entail?

Walking, low intensity jogs, self myofascial release (foam roll, ball, etc), stretching, etc, etc.

Basically low intensity stuff to keep you moving and get the blood flowing, promoting better recovery.

Or you can just rest.

Active recovery isn't needed, although I suggest most anyone maintain their flexibility which entails static stretching, dynamic mobility work and myofascial release if it's to be done optimally.

I actually do some form of stretching and/or mobility work daily.

Second what kind of weight lifting routine do you suggest? I guess I need to be spoonfed here. I have listed what I have available to me and I have no spotter so any bench etc excercise can not be too heavy.

Well we are trying to avoid muscular failure here, so you shouldn't be worrying about a weight being so heavy that it falls on you.

I'm suggesting a full body routine.

Depending on how many days per week you are going to lift, it will affect how the 'plan' is layed out.

If you're going to lift twice, I'd simply have two seperate workouts.

If you're going to be lifing three times per week, I'd do something like:

Week 1: ABA
Week 2: BAB

So on and so forth.

As far as the specifics go... nothing fancy. Some compound work for the legs, chest, back. You can throw shoulders into the mix if you'd like as well as fluff work for your arms and core at the end too.

Legs - squat variations, deadlift variations, lunges, step ups, GHRs, etc, etc
Chest - the various presses using DBs, BB, pushups, etc.
Rows - you'll be limited to DB rows here for the most part.

Pullups would be nice if you could get a bar. They're cheap and easy to install.

You could add in shoulder presses too if you'd like.

Get the point?
 
Aren't they?

Too bad most gyms don't have a GHR bench. I, unfortunately, have to use a lat pulldown apparatus to do mine.
 
so basically my only useful purpose is to follow steve around and stick him?

boy did that ever come out wrong :D

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Well I don't think it's your only useful purpose but I thing your good at it :X Errr....keeping track of useful forum info I mean....not the sticking Steve part....I wouldn't know if you're good at that.......:D
 
What I'm suggesting is 2-3 full body sessions per week using 2-3 sets of 5-10 reps of compound lifts. You can add some fluff stuff in at the end if you'd like, such as a couple of sets for arms. Emphasis on 'a couple'!


How many different excercises in each day?

If the goal was just to lose weight, then hit the bike hard and circuit type weight training?

Once again thank you very much.
 
Last edited:
How many different excercises in each day?

One, maybe two for each of the major muscle groups.

So something for quads, something for hams/glutes, something for chest, something for back.

If I were you, considering the calories you're eating and the other activity, one of the days might look something like:

DB Squats (since you don't have a rack)
Romanian Deadlifts with DBs
Single Arm DB Rows
BB Bench Press
Arms
Core

If the goal was just to lose weight,

Nope.

As I've been saying... the goal is to lose fat and maintain muscle. Possibly add.

Weight is arbitrary.

Weight is easy to lose.

then hit the bike hard and circuit type weight training?

I'm not sure where this circuit training is coming from?
 
Back
Top