My weakness off the floor
- Thread starter Karky
- Start date
Will doing DLs off low blocks or plates help my weakness off the floor? When doing limited rom stuff, you strenghten everything around the range of motion you're going for right? So if the bar is a bit elevated, my strenght off the floor will still get challenged.
And I miss spelled genius. damnit
there's a yellow t-shirt club? Is it as geeky as the ToT? maybe it's called "Yellow t-shirts from hell"
And dang I'm really psyched about this stuff. I'm gonna do it with my overhead pushes too. I've been doing push press up until now. I'll start rotating in jerks, power jerks, maybe a military press now and then.
One more thing, for the pulling stuff now I've been doing
on day A
DL
B
Pwr shrugs
C
power cleans
Should I cut the power cleans from day C? put in something else? If I could squat I'd put in that there. Maybe I can cut the PC for a while and try to get into the squatting again, if I work myself up slowly with weight I might get it..
And I miss spelled genius. damnit
there's a yellow t-shirt club? Is it as geeky as the ToT?
maybe it's called "Yellow t-shirts from hell" And dang I'm really psyched about this stuff. I'm gonna do it with my overhead pushes too. I've been doing push press up until now. I'll start rotating in jerks, power jerks, maybe a military press now and then.
One more thing, for the pulling stuff now I've been doing
on day A
DL
B
Pwr shrugs
C
power cleans
Should I cut the power cleans from day C? put in something else? If I could squat I'd put in that there. Maybe I can cut the PC for a while and try to get into the squatting again, if I work myself up slowly with weight I might get it..
It might. There is only one way for you to find out. You can also do different pulls off the floor while standing on a plate or 2. To increase the range of motion. The more ways you do exercises the more likely you are to have more success.
If by geeky you mean "Coolest Thing Ever!!!" Then yes. :yelrotflmao:
And do presses seated, with dumbbells, with pins so you are pressing from the nose, forehead, just above the head for lockouts, DB Jerks, DB push press.
The more ways you train the better off you are.
Rotate in all you more power pulling exercises. Cleans, Snatch, High Pulls with different hand spacing, power shrugs, High pulls from a hang, high pulls off of blocks.
Try squatting with different foot positions, feet close, feet apart, feet pointing forward, feet pointing out, off of a box, use different box heights.
Maybe zerchers, front squats with different foot positions will work better.
You will find ways of doing squats that do not cause problems. It will just take some time to test things out.
It makes me very happy that you are starting to break away from the traditional set training routine and open your training into a broader experience where you will learn a lot more about your body and how it adapts to different things. :jump1:
huh? I'm already doing that for workout B.. Did you want me to do the same for WO C too? Or did you just screw up?
And I'm really happy I'm doing that too.. I feel like it's been a long time coming.
And I hope the squatting thing works. I'll just try a lot of stuff and see what happenes. I think I should start with something that gives me more counter weight for balance, like front, zercher, lumberjack, etc. Since the more counter balance I have the less it hurts. Back squats are the worst.
I did not screw up. You are going to have to rethink the basic structure of your workouts. Instead of having just full body days, make a more specific goal for your days.
Example -
A. Power day - Here you will have all of your power type exercises rotated through. Cleans, power shrugs, high pulls, jerks, push press, a few exercises done for speed. Any exercise where speed is more important than weight. Then a few exercises done as assistance exercises.
B. Strength day - Focusing on heavier exercises. Here you can have your deadlifts, squats, RDL's, Regular overhead presses, bench presses. Any exercises where you focus on heavier weight over speed. Then a few exercises done for assistance exercises.
C. Day of Work - Pick anything. Preferably your weakest areas. (which you will learn because you will have certain exercises that you will be weaker and slower on in the other days. This is how you will find what should be trained more on this day) The goal here is literally work. Super sets, higher reps, lots of sets with short rest periods, Exercises which focus on coordination.
Now you have different days that will utilize the rotation of exercise specific to the goal of the day.
See how rotating exercises now opens a door to infinite possibilities in your workouts????
Everything can now be done with the goal of breaking records and finding weak points to be strengthened. This is how you will be able to unlock the type of exercises and training methods that work best for you. Systematically rotating through different exercises, rep schemes, set schemes, anything that needs to be tried.
G. Now I've been doing push press on my DL days. What's the difference from mixing strenght with explosive on 2 days and separating the strenght and explosive exercises into two different days?
Is it better to move the push press from my A deadlift workouts to the B power workouts? And move the low rep benching from B to A?
Sorry, but I'm gonna write something now, don't worry, it won't be set in stone. I just need it to work out from, so we can talk from it.
A
strenght, low rep
DL rotation
Horizontal push
and pull
(can I do some higher rep work here, or will all of that go on the work capacity day up until now I've been doing lunges for my quads, they need some size. Would that go under the "do some work for that muscle/movement ever day to bring it up to speed" thing?) Same for day B
B
Power.
Explosive pull rotation
OHP rotation
vertical pull
C
Work capacity.
I have no clue what to put here really, I guess I will have to wait and see what weaknesses show up. Only high reps here?
For now I guess I can put my squatting here, since I won't be squatting heavy for a while. But when I get up to maxing on squats, should I put it on day A with the low rep pulling?
If I do that, it looks like I will have to sacrefise benching heavy twice a week I've always had this.. I dunno, a stupid hangup about benching relatively heavy twice a week. Been chasing 100kg max now, and I want it before xmas (I did 97.5 last time, so I'm gonna get it)
Is it better to move the push press from my A deadlift workouts to the B power workouts? And move the low rep benching from B to A?
Sorry, but I'm gonna write something now, don't worry, it won't be set in stone. I just need it to work out from, so we can talk from it.
A
strenght, low rep
DL rotation
Horizontal push
and pull
(can I do some higher rep work here, or will all of that go on the work capacity day up until now I've been doing lunges for my quads, they need some size. Would that go under the "do some work for that muscle/movement ever day to bring it up to speed" thing?) Same for day B
B
Power.
Explosive pull rotation
OHP rotation
vertical pull
C
Work capacity.
I have no clue what to put here really, I guess I will have to wait and see what weaknesses show up. Only high reps here?
For now I guess I can put my squatting here, since I won't be squatting heavy for a while. But when I get up to maxing on squats, should I put it on day A with the low rep pulling?
If I do that, it looks like I will have to sacrefise benching heavy twice a week
I've always had this.. I dunno, a stupid hangup about benching relatively heavy twice a week. Been chasing 100kg max now, and I want it before xmas (I did 97.5 last time, so I'm gonna get it)From a getting training results standpoint??? Possibly no difference.
I like doing them on 2 different days because it makes things easier to track, and more simple to see what needs to be done. (from my standpoint anyhow)
Maybe, maybe not. I believe it is easier to track workouts with having power exercises together and strength exercise together.
Get away from the horizontal and vertical push and pull thing. It is not that important. You will rotate through strength pushing exercises on this day. OHP, bench press, incline press, DB OHP. Pressing is pressing. The horizontal, vertical thing is of little consequence.
Your assistance exercise after the main exercises can be for higher reps. If that is what you find to be necessary. I like to end the day on exercises using more reps with weaker areas that I have.
The strength and power days are really only named after "strength" and "power" because that is what is done with the first 2 or 3 exercises.
Your days will look essentially the same.
Lower body pushing or pulling exercise
Upper body pressing exercise
Upper Body Pulling Exercise
2 - 4 assistance exercise. Training weak areas.
The only difference between the days will be this -
POWER
Lower body pushing or pulling exercise
Upper body pressing exercise
Upper Body Pulling Exercise
2 - 4 assistance exercise. Training weak areas.
STRENGTH
Lower body pushing or pulling exercise
Upper body pressing exercise
Upper Body Pulling Exercise
2 - 4 assistance exercise. Training weak areas.
WORK CAPACITY
Lower body pushing or pulling exercise - higher reps, super-sets.
Upper body pressing exercise - higher reps, super-sets
Upper Body Pulling Exercise - higher reps, super sets
2 - 4 assistance exercise. Training weak areas - circuits, complexes
Hopefully you got your answer to this with the examples above.
AARRRRGGGG....... It is 2.5kg. Just put on the 100kg the next time you bench, get fired up, and get the lift. Then we can get on to more important things.
On another note, you will be pressing 3 days per week. 1 day for strength, 1 day for power, 1 day for reps and work capacity. So you will be getting more work than doing heavy bench 2X per week. You will also be training the pressing movements with many different exercises, speeds, and reps ranges. Which will give you a more well rounded program and increase the chance you will have better and faster results.
Conjugate training has an interesting history. The idea of using many exercises came originally from Paul Anderson in the 1950's. He was the strongest man on earth and traveled the world competing in weightlifting competitions, the Olympics, and other events.
When he was in Russia he was setting up different things on order to do more exercises, the Russian athletes and coaches (who were using only the Olympic Lifts and 1 or 2 other exercises in their training at the time) saw how successful Paul was and started implementing more exercises in their training.
When Paul was in the training hall at a world championships later on, he saw that the Russian athletes were using a lot more exercises, and were greatly improving on their lifts.
The Russians took this concept and developed their style of training where you trained may different abilities at the same time (Conjugate training)
As the Russians were doing this, Peanuts West (a powerlifter from the west coast in the 1960's) was using box squats and a powerlifting specific version of the conjugate training method. Peanuts West is where Louie learned the basics of the box squat and started building his "westside training system" Westside Barbell is named after Peanuts West.
Louie, along with a lot of other strength athletes, learned from many books that were written on the Russian style of training. This is where the speed aspect of training started coming into play and was more understood.
There were more books on Russian training written after the 1980's. In the 80's a group of strength coaches (including a man I now work with) paid to have many Russian coaches brought to the US. This spawned a wave of books on the Russian style of training.
After that point, information was more readily available, and strength coaches around the country were more able to implement the "Westside" style of training in a broader range of sports. (since the westside method is specific to powerlifting, but the underlying principals came from Olympic weight lifting and sports training)
I do not know what inspired me to write this. But....
That is a brief and incomplete history of the major events that led to the training system we currently know as the Conjugate Training Method.
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Is it ok to do supersets on the power and str days too? Keeping rest between exercises at like 1 min, so it won't affect recovery that much. It really helps keep the workout time down. specially now as my exams are coming, I don't have the time to be at the gym for sevral hours.
On another note: About pullups. The weak part is at the top of the movement (I guess it's like that for most people) Can it help doing a coupple sets of just the upper rom? Just some quick reps getting the chin over the bar, head under, chin over, head under, chin over... you get the idea? Not nessicarily as a "main" upper body pulling, but just as assistance? Then you'd also not have the momentum from the lower part of the rom so you'd really have to use all of those smaller muscles that help get that last part of the rom. - Just what I thought, dunno if it makes sence or not
Also: If I do for example 8 tripples. Should I keep the weight constant, or go as heavy as I can each set, and reduce the weight as I fatigue? The second would obviously be the hardest.
I'm hitting the gym tomorrow. I'm so psyched! Just gotta figure out what day to start with *jumps up and down like a kid on xmas eve*
On another note: About pullups. The weak part is at the top of the movement (I guess it's like that for most people) Can it help doing a coupple sets of just the upper rom? Just some quick reps getting the chin over the bar, head under, chin over, head under, chin over... you get the idea? Not nessicarily as a "main" upper body pulling, but just as assistance? Then you'd also not have the momentum from the lower part of the rom so you'd really have to use all of those smaller muscles that help get that last part of the rom. - Just what I thought, dunno if it makes sence or not
Also: If I do for example 8 tripples. Should I keep the weight constant, or go as heavy as I can each set, and reduce the weight as I fatigue? The second would obviously be the hardest.
I'm hitting the gym tomorrow. I'm so psyched! Just gotta figure out what day to start with *jumps up and down like a kid on xmas eve*
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I would not superset the 1st 2 or 3 exercises. I would focus on that is important.
You can superset the assistance exercises after that if you need to. Time in the gym should really not be an issue unless you are wasting a lot if time during your workout.
I am not all about the partial range stuff. Use different grips, bars and handles for your pull-ups is a good route to go. You can try it and see how it works. And yes, pull-ups are an assistance exercise.
If you can do more do more. If not, don't. Having the goal of not failing is good. Make your decisions based upon that. It may not be necessary to do 8 sets. If you take my meaning.
A good way to do get higher sets is to work up to a 3RM. Then drop 5 - 10kgs or so and do sets of 3 till you can't. Sometimes you will get 8 sets sometimes you will not. Your body is done when you can no longer get 3.
You will get a feel for how much drop-off you need for different numbers of sets.
Thanks for the help G!
Also, I've kinda been wanting to try wave loading. I've read about it, and it sounds interresting. Have you ever tried it? What's your thoughts about it?
I read this article on t-nation: TESTOSTERONE NATION - The Wave Loading Manifesto
Think it would be a good idea to throw this in once in a while? I could offcource do different types of waves. Low to high rep, add more waves if I feel good, etc.
Also, I've kinda been wanting to try wave loading. I've read about it, and it sounds interresting. Have you ever tried it? What's your thoughts about it?
I read this article on t-nation: TESTOSTERONE NATION - The Wave Loading Manifesto
And example wave taken from the article.
Think it would be a good idea to throw this in once in a while? I could offcource do different types of waves. Low to high rep, add more waves if I feel good, etc.