My view on the word DIET
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ChefChiTown
New member
Hahaha, sorry. I thought I was being all cool showing off all this web-cabulary I've picked up.
IME = in my experience.
Ahh, I see. Well, IME, I'm a moron when it comes to internet lingo.
thoughtsfropete
Banned
Well, I am not sure that your examples hold any value in this discussion because they are not examples of success of failures.
Success - Is the result of hard work, discipline and commitment to acheive a desired goal.
Your examples are actually only a demonstration of "EXTERNAL," things and circumstances.
A good example of this is saying "this person was born into success." - The statement is false and does not make any sense, how is anybody supposed to be born and already have acheived success??? Well, unless they are born with an ailment or serious medical condition that in their infancy are able to overcome. Perhaps, that is.
The examples of this are endless, however, what I am saying here is that success is not what you have externally "it might be a reflection if you have worked hard and acheived much."
Success is internal, I have two friends, one is a financially WEALTHY and VERY wealthy at that matter, but the money was passed down to him. My other friend has his own mortgage and her own medium priced car, but he came from nothing, actually less than nothing. That is success! When you sit and talk to him, you feel inspired to beat down whatever is in your way to go get your goals because that energy is infectious.
Finally - the same of weight loss, some people are genetically able to lose weight more quickly and easily, some are not, but success can be measured on many things that INTERNAL!!! - Never external.
The danger you have set upon your claims all your above responses are that you have allowed for the EXTERNAL to take responsibility in peoples failing's and worst of all, CREDIT, in their successes.
Measure your own success through what you sacrifice to get there, with how much passion and energy and commitment it has taken you.
The end.
Success - Is the result of hard work, discipline and commitment to acheive a desired goal.
Your examples are actually only a demonstration of "EXTERNAL," things and circumstances.
A good example of this is saying "this person was born into success." - The statement is false and does not make any sense, how is anybody supposed to be born and already have acheived success??? Well, unless they are born with an ailment or serious medical condition that in their infancy are able to overcome. Perhaps, that is.
The examples of this are endless, however, what I am saying here is that success is not what you have externally "it might be a reflection if you have worked hard and acheived much."
Success is internal, I have two friends, one is a financially WEALTHY and VERY wealthy at that matter, but the money was passed down to him. My other friend has his own mortgage and her own medium priced car, but he came from nothing, actually less than nothing. That is success! When you sit and talk to him, you feel inspired to beat down whatever is in your way to go get your goals because that energy is infectious.
Finally - the same of weight loss, some people are genetically able to lose weight more quickly and easily, some are not, but success can be measured on many things that INTERNAL!!! - Never external.
The danger you have set upon your claims all your above responses are that you have allowed for the EXTERNAL to take responsibility in peoples failing's and worst of all, CREDIT, in their successes.
Measure your own success through what you sacrifice to get there, with how much passion and energy and commitment it has taken you.
The end.
ChefChiTown
New member
It all depends on what your individual definition of success is. Everybody has their own personal definition when it comes to success, which is why I said...
Once again, that all depends on what your individual definition of success is. Do you measure success by...
Personal accomplishments (doing your best, working hard, etc)?
Emotional accomplishments (finding love, being happy, etc)?
Physical accomplishments (running fast, being strong, etc)?
Material accomplishments (earning money, buying expensive things, etc)?
Social accomplishments (having friends, being well liked, etc)?
Sexual accomplishments (having lots of sex, being good in bed, etc)?
Etc.
There are sooooo many different ways that you can measure success, which eliminates it from being a black and white issue. The amount of gray area that is involved is staggering, to say the least. For instance...
Who is more successful?
Man A: Works hard, puts in 40 hours of work per week, earns $40,000/year, pays his own way through life, earning everything he has, but spends his spare time drinking, womanizing and getting into fights?
Man B: Inherits $10 Million, uses some of the money to buy expensive material possessions such as a car, a mansion and expensive suits, but also uses some of the money to build a number of homeless shelters which keep thousands of people off of the streets?
Man C: Works two jobs to support his wife and two children, saves every penny he can in order to provide for his family because they can barely scrape by as it is, doesn't have much to show for his hard work (in the sense of material possessions), has a small house, a beat up car, hand-me-down clothing and is constantly on the verge of filing bankruptcy, but remains a perfect husband and father throughout it all?
So, which one is more successful?
If I asked that question to a hundred different people, I would probably get a hundred different answers and explanations.
Once again, it all depends on what your individual definition and/or philosophy on success is.
Technically, being a midget and not having a uterus are internal. Your genetic makeup is 100% internal, not external. But, I said before that those examples were over-the-top and only used to make a point. Success can't be measured by only looking at how hard a person works at accomplishing their goal. There ARE other things that effect a person's successes and failures.
And, if you choose to believe that a person's success is measured by the amount of hard work and effort that they put into accomplishing their goal(s), then allow me to ask you this (just to play Devil's advocate)...
If a person wants to be the best child molestor in the world, truly the greatest child molestor in the history of mankind, works extremely hard at it and puts in an insane amount of effort and dedication, eventually becoming the most famous and well-known child molestor the world has ever seen...are you still going to consider that person to be successful? I mean, they worked really hard and put in a lot of effort to reach their goal and that's all that matters, right?
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Jeanette401
New member
I think the danger of calling a diet 'Impossible' and using physical examples such as a midget NBA player is that it tends to place responsibility squarely on the diet, and remove it from the person. I certainly agree that most diets are difficult to sustain - 5 years on Atkins certainly supports that. But it's not because the diets themselves don't work. I lost 70 lbs on Atkins, and the issue wasn't whether or not it worked, but whether or not I had the drive to stay with such a restrictive plan.
To use another example - when I was in college I had a friend who wanted to be a professional dancer. But as she had cerebral palsy and didn't have full motor control of parts of her body, she was told it was never going to happen. At the same time I realize that the chances of me becoming a professional dancer weren't any better - I simply didn't have the drive, motivation or enthusiasm to do what it took. It wasn't physically impossible - I wasn't so uncoordinated that it would never work - but mentally I just didn't have enough desire and will to make it happen. In the case of diets, the chances that you're actually a 'midget' or otherwise have a physical impossibility of losing weight is so slim as to be none - if you can establish and maintain a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight, regardless of what 'program' you're on.
So yes, I agree that diets can be fads and go overboard (although ironically the goal of all diets seems to be to 'trick' you into eating less calories without actually counting them), but one of the interesting points about the 'How Dieters Fail Diets' article is that in some respects the diet mentality is part of the danger. You're either on the diet, or off of it. And if you're off of it, you have free reign to eat a plate of brownies.
One of the bad things about the Atkins diet was the idea of ketosis being the magic - it sort of promoted the idea that once you were out of ketosis it would take days to get back into it - so why not have a few more treats since you won't be losing anyway
(The diet itself explicitly said not to feel guilty if you cheated, but just to get right back on the wagon).
But at the same time, even though it's a fad diet, and even though it's really not necessary to be on that restrictive a diet, if you have the willpower to stick with it 90% of the time, and don't use your 10% mess up times for eating entire pans of brownies at a time... it can work. There may be easier ways to maintain weight loss, but it is something you can make work with enough sacrifice and willpower.
Disclaimer: I am not advocating that people try Atkins, and am not using a low carb approach at this time. I far prefer monitoring my caloric and protein intake, trying to get the right balance of macro-nutrients and calories. However, I can't deny that low-carb worked for me, and it was something I was able to sustain for 5 years.
Disclaimer 2: I am not suggesting that brownies are evil. It's just that they are meant to be eaten, and should someone bring in two containers of the little brownie bites and leave them in the break room right across from my office... I might have to protect the world from their non-evil-chocolaty goodness.
To use another example - when I was in college I had a friend who wanted to be a professional dancer. But as she had cerebral palsy and didn't have full motor control of parts of her body, she was told it was never going to happen. At the same time I realize that the chances of me becoming a professional dancer weren't any better - I simply didn't have the drive, motivation or enthusiasm to do what it took. It wasn't physically impossible - I wasn't so uncoordinated that it would never work - but mentally I just didn't have enough desire and will to make it happen. In the case of diets, the chances that you're actually a 'midget' or otherwise have a physical impossibility of losing weight is so slim as to be none - if you can establish and maintain a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight, regardless of what 'program' you're on.
So yes, I agree that diets can be fads and go overboard (although ironically the goal of all diets seems to be to 'trick' you into eating less calories without actually counting them), but one of the interesting points about the 'How Dieters Fail Diets' article is that in some respects the diet mentality is part of the danger. You're either on the diet, or off of it. And if you're off of it, you have free reign to eat a plate of brownies.
One of the bad things about the Atkins diet was the idea of ketosis being the magic - it sort of promoted the idea that once you were out of ketosis it would take days to get back into it - so why not have a few more treats since you won't be losing anyway
(The diet itself explicitly said not to feel guilty if you cheated, but just to get right back on the wagon).But at the same time, even though it's a fad diet, and even though it's really not necessary to be on that restrictive a diet, if you have the willpower to stick with it 90% of the time, and don't use your 10% mess up times for eating entire pans of brownies at a time... it can work. There may be easier ways to maintain weight loss, but it is something you can make work with enough sacrifice and willpower.
Disclaimer: I am not advocating that people try Atkins, and am not using a low carb approach at this time. I far prefer monitoring my caloric and protein intake, trying to get the right balance of macro-nutrients and calories. However, I can't deny that low-carb worked for me, and it was something I was able to sustain for 5 years.
Disclaimer 2: I am not suggesting that brownies are evil. It's just that they are meant to be eaten, and should someone bring in two containers of the little brownie bites and leave them in the break room right across from my office... I might have to protect the world from their non-evil-chocolaty goodness.
Jeanette401
New member
I think somehow the idea of 'off the diet' frees you of responsibility for your actions. You know... I've been good all week! I'll just be off the diet for the weekend... as opposed to figuring out a way to work in your favorite food while still meeting your goals. Now, your goals should be elastic, but there's no real reason you need to eat a whole pizza when you're indulging.
The other aspect is that if you feel like you've 'failed' the diet, you can just give up and eat as much as you want while wallowing in your lack of self control. As opposed to picking yourself up and shrugging, or deciding you have to do an extra hour of cardio or something.
But I think there's something of a chicken and egg issue here - do people get into the 'diet' mentality because of the 50 billion fad diets that exist, or do the 50 billion fad diets exist because people tend to the diet mentality to begin with? The idea of a magic formula that will make you healthier, sexier etc. is apparently much more appealing than learning about actual nutrition
KaraCooks
New member
Totally agree. I have a friend who uses a really great analogy for this kind of mindset: If you trip on the top step, do you just go ahead and throw yourself down the staircase into a battered and broken heap? Of course not. You regain your balance and keep walking down the stairs. But I think when you're "on a diet" and you "fail" ... you give yourself a built in excuse to fling yourself down the stairs.
Heh. No kidding. Look at the search for the fountain of youth ... same concept. I do think the one feeds on the other but the search for a universal "quick fix" is ingrained. It doesn't matter if it's weight, money, sex, youth ... any of it. And I think it's gotten worse with each generation as we become more used to instant gratification. Good grief, we've gone from shipping things, to FedExing things overnight, to let-me-download-it-right-now. When you can get a book downloaded to your computer in 30 seconds, why on earth would you wait 6 months to lose the weight you want to lose?But I think there's something of a chicken and egg issue here - do people get into the 'diet' mentality because of the 50 billion fad diets that exist, or do the 50 billion fad diets exist because people tend to the diet mentality to begin with? The idea of a magic formula that will make you healthier, sexier etc. is apparently much more appealing than learning about actual nutrition
Jeanette401
New member
So you're saying if I weren't so good at procrastinating, I could have had liposuction by now!!
I like the stair analogy though! People do it a lot though. In fact, I caught part of the show "So you think you can dance?" and there was a guy who ran out of steam before they were done watching him - and he was so freaked out about it that he was defensive and disrespectful, and ended up not going on to the next round when he probably would have if not for his freaking out over the screw-up.
Totally counter productive, and yet it happened anyway. But I know I've been guilty of it myself - telling myself, well, I had pizza today, might as well have dessert and then get back on the wagon tomorrow. And I can't even blame the diet itself, which explicitly tells you not to do that - it was just a way of justifying something I wanted but knew I shouldn't do. I like my current plan much better, because once I get my minimum macros and nutrients in, if I have left over calories they're freebies - so I get rewarded for being really good by allowing myself treats.
... I suppose the "Personal Accountability Diet Plan" doesn't have as much pizazz as South Beach or Zone though
ChefChiTown
New member
Totally agree. I have a friend who uses a really great analogy for this kind of mindset: If you trip on the top step, do you just go ahead and throw yourself down the staircase into a battered and broken heap? Of course not. You regain your balance and keep walking down the stairs. But I think when you're "on a diet" and you "fail" ... you give yourself a built in excuse to fling yourself down the stairs.
Usually when people trip on the top step, they're going to fall all the way to the bottom. I fell down the stairs once when I was like 11 and I was holding my piggy bank. When I hit the bottom, my piggy bank broke open and coins went EVERYWHERE. Picking them all up suuuuucked. Mostly because I was crying the whole time, as I had just fallen all the way down the stairs, but I was also upset that I had to spend like 20 minutes picking up pennies and shit.
thoughtsfropete
Banned
Some great truths 
So much of our successes are based around the metaphors and statements that we most consistently use. For example, have you heard any of the following?
"I have a slow metabolism."
"I just look at food and put weight on."
"I don't have enough time to cook/prepare the right foods."
"I don't understand why I put weight on, I don't eat anything."
Now, if we were compassionate people (which many of us are,) we would tend to just agree with that individual on the above points to move onto another topic or so that at minimum, we have given an emotional hug to them. The massive problem here is what we actually do all too often (and I have found myself doing this,) is become a species of "it's ok to be overweight," and so on.
"I have a slow metabolism."
You will find that 95 out of 100 people that say that they have a slow metabolism have never actually had their metabolism tested. Best thing you can do if they say this "or if you catch yourself saying this," is "really, well, how many calories are you burning per day at rest?" In other words what is your basal metabolic rate?
Many people that THINK they have a slow metabolism actually have a very healthy and fast metabolism.
"I just look at food and put weight on."
Again, what looks like an area where you would stimulate compassion for that person but the question is "well, what food are you looking at?" Because clearly it is not food that is helping you towards your goals.
"I don't have enough time to cook/prepare the right foods."
It is such a shame that some of us only have 20 hours in the day, you see I am lucky enough to get a full 24! - I am flat out busy with them, from working to working out, to preparing my meals, to socialising with my friends and much much more! Bottom line is here, what are you choosing to do with your time? And is your weight loss important enough to you to prioritise it?
"I don't understand why I put weight on, I don't eat anything."
1) A lot of people that say this are actually telling the truth, but a result of NOT eating means that they are not getting enough nutrients and their body "as you probably know," hits survival mode and needs to store more ENERGY.... The only problem is that we store energy in the form of FAT... Oh dear....
2) If you don't eat anything for long periods of time then yes our subconscious does think that we are in a desert and when you open the fridge after 12 hours of no food, IT'S FOUND A DEAD ZIBRA TIME!!!!!! Well, at least that's what your subconscious thinks, so therefore you become a bear and stock up for the next week!!! haha.... All of this is done on such a subconscious level it totally throws any conscious reasoning out of the way so willpower over subconsious survival is never ever going to work.
Anyways, this does bring me back to my original point about DIETS. The word diet itself has created a world of DIETERS. And yes, as many of you have stated passing responsibility and accountability to yet another thing other than yourself to succeed!
We are of course so responsible for our successes and should enjoy them, but also be honest with ourselves and take accountability when we haven't stepped up. It's not blame here, but it is "what are you going to do about it?"
I also really like the "self accountable diet..." - hmmmm
Pete
So much of our successes are based around the metaphors and statements that we most consistently use. For example, have you heard any of the following?
"I have a slow metabolism."
"I just look at food and put weight on."
"I don't have enough time to cook/prepare the right foods."
"I don't understand why I put weight on, I don't eat anything."
Now, if we were compassionate people (which many of us are,) we would tend to just agree with that individual on the above points to move onto another topic or so that at minimum, we have given an emotional hug to them. The massive problem here is what we actually do all too often (and I have found myself doing this,) is become a species of "it's ok to be overweight," and so on.
"I have a slow metabolism."
You will find that 95 out of 100 people that say that they have a slow metabolism have never actually had their metabolism tested. Best thing you can do if they say this "or if you catch yourself saying this," is "really, well, how many calories are you burning per day at rest?" In other words what is your basal metabolic rate?
Many people that THINK they have a slow metabolism actually have a very healthy and fast metabolism.
"I just look at food and put weight on."
Again, what looks like an area where you would stimulate compassion for that person but the question is "well, what food are you looking at?" Because clearly it is not food that is helping you towards your goals.
"I don't have enough time to cook/prepare the right foods."
It is such a shame that some of us only have 20 hours in the day, you see I am lucky enough to get a full 24! - I am flat out busy with them, from working to working out, to preparing my meals, to socialising with my friends and much much more! Bottom line is here, what are you choosing to do with your time? And is your weight loss important enough to you to prioritise it?
"I don't understand why I put weight on, I don't eat anything."
1) A lot of people that say this are actually telling the truth, but a result of NOT eating means that they are not getting enough nutrients and their body "as you probably know," hits survival mode and needs to store more ENERGY.... The only problem is that we store energy in the form of FAT... Oh dear....
2) If you don't eat anything for long periods of time then yes our subconscious does think that we are in a desert and when you open the fridge after 12 hours of no food, IT'S FOUND A DEAD ZIBRA TIME!!!!!! Well, at least that's what your subconscious thinks, so therefore you become a bear and stock up for the next week!!! haha.... All of this is done on such a subconscious level it totally throws any conscious reasoning out of the way so willpower over subconsious survival is never ever going to work.
Anyways, this does bring me back to my original point about DIETS. The word diet itself has created a world of DIETERS. And yes, as many of you have stated passing responsibility and accountability to yet another thing other than yourself to succeed!
We are of course so responsible for our successes and should enjoy them, but also be honest with ourselves and take accountability when we haven't stepped up. It's not blame here, but it is "what are you going to do about it?"
I also really like the "self accountable diet..." - hmmmm
Pete
San2
Mod
So, let me get this straight....you're saying that a person is entirely responsible for their success and failures, right? That there are no external factors that influence if I succeed or fail, and that what I achieve is squarely on my shoulders, no matter the circumstances? Not just in regards to diets (meaning: restricting what I eat in order to lose weight), but in general?
San2
Mod
That's exactly what my question was aiming at.
thoughtsfropete
Banned
Lol, I think this can go on FOREVER!!!
No that is not what is being said here.
As you can see it states SO MUCH OF OUR SUCCESSES, not ALL our successes.
However, even though we are effected by our environment all too often many people use their environment as a reason to not succeed. Well, actually they succeed in not succeeding, if that makes sense?
It is so crucial that we actually look at our most consistent metaphors, statements and questions that we ask out into the world.
The basis is that we are a species that always wants to prove ourself correct, in a way, if we argue enough for our limitations, sure enough they will be ours. - I forget who said that?
The word success has been loosly used in today's world and that is actually why your boss who is a complete loser (this is for example by the way,) is on a big fat pay check and you are sitting on half his salary and much more capable than him.
Because we have created a world of success is external, we have rewarded people in that way as well. e.g. car you drive, how sexy you look in a dress "well, not me..haha," and the list goes on and on.
We have forgotten that success is actually internal, it's the driver behind your life!!
As I stated in an earlier message, a REFLECTION of your success can and should be the the many external things, but not the sole thing.
Going all the way back to my original point.......... That the word DIET has given permission for literally millions and millions of people to pass responsibilty to the diet for their success and/or failings, as afterall, if we didn't lose the weight, we can always blame the diet.
This is not a personal attack at anybody, but it IS THE TRUTH!!!
Perhaps you are not that person, perhaps you do take responsibility and that's great, but we cannot and must not make excuses for the millions of people out there that are not taking responsibilty and are actually the REASON why we have an obesity plague that has gotton into the street you live in, the place you work at, the places you take your kids too and perhaps, perhaps even your own family and your own mindset.
Hope this all makes sense?
No that is not what is being said here.
As you can see it states SO MUCH OF OUR SUCCESSES, not ALL our successes.
However, even though we are effected by our environment all too often many people use their environment as a reason to not succeed. Well, actually they succeed in not succeeding, if that makes sense?
It is so crucial that we actually look at our most consistent metaphors, statements and questions that we ask out into the world.
The basis is that we are a species that always wants to prove ourself correct, in a way, if we argue enough for our limitations, sure enough they will be ours. - I forget who said that?
The word success has been loosly used in today's world and that is actually why your boss who is a complete loser (this is for example by the way,) is on a big fat pay check and you are sitting on half his salary and much more capable than him.
Because we have created a world of success is external, we have rewarded people in that way as well. e.g. car you drive, how sexy you look in a dress "well, not me..haha," and the list goes on and on.
We have forgotten that success is actually internal, it's the driver behind your life!!
As I stated in an earlier message, a REFLECTION of your success can and should be the the many external things, but not the sole thing.
Going all the way back to my original point.......... That the word DIET has given permission for literally millions and millions of people to pass responsibilty to the diet for their success and/or failings, as afterall, if we didn't lose the weight, we can always blame the diet.
This is not a personal attack at anybody, but it IS THE TRUTH!!!
Perhaps you are not that person, perhaps you do take responsibility and that's great, but we cannot and must not make excuses for the millions of people out there that are not taking responsibilty and are actually the REASON why we have an obesity plague that has gotton into the street you live in, the place you work at, the places you take your kids too and perhaps, perhaps even your own family and your own mindset.
Hope this all makes sense?
San2
Mod
Hmmm....
Yeah. This could go on forever I guess, especially because I am getting the feeling that people are not actually talking about the same thing here.
My views on success and failure are rather extreme, and I had a lengthy discussion with my husband about it yesterday (after reading this thread) which I don't really want to repeat, so I'm not going into this.
But it is certainly interesting to read everybody's views on the topic, and in an adult fashion without abuse shouted at each other to make things even better. I love it that that's actually possible.
Yeah. This could go on forever I guess, especially because I am getting the feeling that people are not actually talking about the same thing here.
My views on success and failure are rather extreme, and I had a lengthy discussion with my husband about it yesterday (after reading this thread) which I don't really want to repeat, so I'm not going into this.
But it is certainly interesting to read everybody's views on the topic, and in an adult fashion without abuse shouted at each other to make things even better. I love it that that's actually possible.
ChefChiTown
New member
Glad I don't trip the way you do.
Yeah, it sucks. When I was a senior in high school, I had just got done talking to my girlfriend during lunch when I laid out the biggest trip in my life. We had only been dating for about 3 weeks, so I was still trying to be all sweet, like I was some hot shit, you know? Anyway, I was done talking to her and started walking away. As I was walking, I turned around to say something funny and, as soon as I turned back around, I tripped over a garbage can. The garbage can fell over and all of the trash went aaaaall over the floor. I started to fall and, as I tried to regain my balance, I kept slipping in the garbage and I bit it sooooo hard. I hit the ground like a brick being dropped from an airplane, garbage was aaaaall over me and everybody started laughing.
Ahh, I'm such a keeper, eh?