More meals don't help you lose weight

[Maclago]

yeah..leucine being oxidised isn't a bad thing, it's just being used for energy. Amino acids will be oxidised all the time, and some authors have suggested that just because amino acids are being oxidised, doesn't mean they don't contribute to anabolic signalling (IE, just because they aren't the substrate in protein synthesis, doesn't mean they don't contribute to anabolism).
At first I thought you were gonna talk about kidney damage..

Very good debate. It's cool getting stuff like this going! + rep!

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining!

Hehe, yeah - I'll save you the kidney damage debate. Lets take it in the 30g protein/meal and creatine cycle topic.

 

[Karky]

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining!

Hehe, yeah - I'll save you the kidney damage debate. Lets take it in the 30g protein/meal and creatine cycle topic.

I'll see you there, then! :biggrinsanta:

 

[tenreps]

SO if what you are reading is right, that means a bodybuilder who needs 6000 calories a day( just to maintain) needs to consume 2000 calories a meal. I will stay with 6 meals, it,s been proven to be the best way to divide your calories thru the day.=========THE BEST.

 

[Karky]

can you show me this proof? No? oh well..

yeah, it can be a problem getting that much into each sitting. It's something you'll have to experiment with yourself. No one said you had to do it, no one said eating 6 times a day would be bad. It's just that the science isn't supporting the common thought about it being better to eat 6 times a week.

and I can eat 3000kcal a day in 3 sittings. That's not a lot, 1kcal per sitting. I can also eat 500 a sitting and get 6 meals. Now, a bodybuilder who has adapted to eat as much as 6kcals a day can probably manage to get it away in 3 sittings if he wanted. It just sounds insane to normal people, but people who eat that much can eat much more than normal people.

 

[tenreps]

KARKY, if you get the chance read( BURN THE FAT FEED THE MUSCLE BY TOM VENUTO) if you haven,t, it is interesting. HE has a whole chapter on the subject.

 

[Karky]

on eating frequently? Does he cite any research? I rarely read books from fitness experts anymore as they rarely cite their sources. And I know I won't pay for a book by some bodybuilder who has had some success..

 

[Hoss]

Tertiary literature is always outdated, that's the price you pay for a nice compiled source of info. I'm gonna take advantage of those journal subscriptions and get to researching this more..

 

[Hoss]

Objective: The purpose of this study was to assess the associations and impact of increased meal frequency, physical activity and 'skipping' breakfast on obesity levels in a sample of urban adolescents, aged 13-17 years old, from Porto, Portugal. Methods: Overweight and obesity were defined according to age- and sex-specific BMI cut-points. Daily meal frequency was assessed by questionnaire. Self-reported physical activity was recalled. Results: The proportion of overweight/obese girls (p ≤ 0.05) and boys (p ≤ 0.001) that consumed fewer than three meals was significantly higher than those reported from normal-weight counterparts. While no statistically significant differences were reported in girls, obese boys skipped breakfast significantly more (13% vs 5.6%; p ≤ 0.05) than normal-weight counterparts did. Normal-weight boys but not girls were significantly more active (p ≤ 0.01) than obese peers. An additional meal in boys (OR: 2.75; p ≤ 0.05) and girls (OR: 1.97; p ≤ 0.05) reduced the risk of being overweight/obese. Regardless of gender, breakfast skipping is not seen as a predictor of being overweight/obese. However, boys (OR: 2.10; p < 0.003), but not girls, who were moderately active were more likely to be of normal weight. Conclusion: The data indicate that increased meal frequency may have a beneficial effect on a reduced BMI. Physical activity and breakfast skipping may be candidate targets for prevention programmes aimed at reducing overweight/obesity among adolescents.

Not enough to base an (my) opinion on, just sharing what I find as I find it.

 

[Karky]

yeah, I like to read studies or reviews mostly. I love reviews, since you can get a pretty ok grasp on a subject before diving into the individual studies. The thing is, though, that on controversial subjects (which is pretty much everything) you really need to read reviews from both sides.

I also like books that are written like they were a scientific review, so easy to check the sources and you clearly see what studies, what designs and everything about where they have gotten their conclusions from.

 

[Karky]

Hoss, post the name of the study, the journal, etc, in case I want to read up on it. And yes, I can get access to your super special rich boy pay journals.

And try to find something on muscle mass and gain, experimental, where you see cause and effect

 

[Hoss]

prior exercise potentiates the thermic effect of a carbohydrate meal. The purpose of this study was to determine if meal size or feeding pattern influences this response. Two groups of healthy, normal-weight young women exercised for 45 min on a cycle ergometer at 70 percent of maximal aerobic capacity. Once aerobic capacity returned to pre-exercise baseline, the thermic effect of food (tef) was determined by indirect calorimetry over a 2-h period. One group of subjects ingested a 2510-kj meal and the other a 5020-kj meal. As a control, subjects ingested the test meal without prior exercise. In addition, subjects ingesting the 5020-kj meal were studied for an additional 2 h. In a separate trial, these subjects ingested a 5020-kj meal in two equal portions after a bout of exercise, the second portion 120 min after the first. Tef was less for the 2510-kj meal compared with the 5020-kj meal for both the control (mean (se), 76 (17) vs 158 (19) kj.2h-1, p less than 0.01), and prior exercise (124 (23) vs 197 (24) kj.2h-1, p less than 0.01) trials. However, the same increment in tef was 31 percent lower when the 5020-kj meal was given in two portions compared with one (281 (30) vs 369 (41) kj.4h-1, p less than 0.05). No difference in tef was found between the first and second 2510-kj portion. The results suggest that potentiation of tef by prior exercise is not influenced by caloric density or energy content of the meal. rather, meal volume and hence meal frequency is a greater determinant of postexercise tef.

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I'll get the info for the next ones I post, I forgot someone else goes to a fancy university too lol..

 

[Hoss]

Hmm.. I'm having a hard time finding good studies. I've gotta get back to work now, well, what they pay me for. I don't think it'd be considered work. Karky, stay in school, lmao..

 

[Karky]

lol, what do you do?

 

[tenreps]

KARKY, if you read that book by tom venuto, you will see that he has done his HOMEWORK ! THEN it is up to you if you want to except it or not. AND no he is not just some bodybuilder giving you crap, he is the BEST, and i know i read many others. =======YOU CAN,T OUT TRAIN BAD NUTRITION !

 

[Karky]

but does he cite research in his book? I don't care if many say he's the best. Many say that many are the best, but then it turns out they are just another expert looking to make money.

 

[tenreps]

YES he sites research read it, unless of course you don,t want to know the truth !

 

[Karky]

If I can get it for free somehow, then I'll take a look. But I'm not gonna go and buy it just because you're challenging me.

 

[Karky]

Managed to get my hands on the book. Not one reference in the entire thing. Also, he bases 6 meals a day on that it will take 3 hours to digest a meal and that amino acids lasts about 3 hours in the blood stream. So basically eat every 3 hours. But he does not provide a single reference for any of those. Even if it were true, then, like I said previously in this thread, some evidence is now showing that it's not optimal to have constantly high levels of amino acids in your blood stream. Though this area needs a lot more research.

 

[Hoss]

I've got the ebook if anyone else wants to see. It's not bad, but surely not on the scientific edge.. We know the dogma tenreps, and this isn't about proving that wrong. It's about looking beyond the accepted truths.

Karks: I'm currently a drug information resident, I also work 16 hours a week at a nursing home.

 

[Karky]

I've got the ebook if anyone else wants to see. It's not bad, but surely not on the scientific edge.. We know the dogma tenreps, and this isn't about proving that wrong. It's about looking beyond the accepted truths.

Karks: I'm currently a drug information resident, I also work 16 hours a week at a nursing home.

Well said.

I'm wondering if energy balance can have an effect on this. I found a study in boxers, though it was on 1200kcal a day and they compared 2 meals with 6.. so it's kinda extreme and you don't know what would have happened with 3 meals and a higher energy intake.

Effects of meal frequency on body composition during weight control in boxers
...

ABSTRACT

The effects of meal frequency on changes in body composition by food restriction were investigated. Twelve boxers were divided between a two meals day−1 group (the 2M group) and a six meals day−1 group (the 6M group). Both groups ingested 5.02 MJ (1200 kcal) day−1 for 2 weeks. Although there was no difference in change of body weight by food restriction between the two groups, the decrease in lean body mass (LBM) was significantly greater in the 2M group than in the 6M group. The decrease in urinary 3-methylhistidine/creatinine was significantly greater in the 6M group than in the 2M group. These results suggest that the lower frequency of meal intake leads to a greater myoprotein catabolism even if the same diet is consumed.