Mindless existance

It was wrong of me to come to the thread where anyone can talk about anything. How dare I come and bring up an issue that affects everyones lives, something everyone can say a little about. But I guess the only thing people here care about is how much weight they can lift, and how good they look in the mirror. God forbid chris has to think about something other than going to the gym. Let's all talk about myspace and who has the most friends, how silly people look working out at the gym, and whos ass looks the best. Excuse me
 
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I know this is a bit off-topic, but I had to point out to those of you who have used the term in this thread, that "retard" is NOT an acceptable term for mentally handicapped or disabled individuals.

Just had to put my 2 cents in about that.

As for the rest, it's all semantics and politics. I'll stay out of it.
 
Okay, well, first of all, all this high-falutin self-righteous sarcasm is really obnoxious. But moving on:

Like I said before the illegalization of alcohol only created more crime.
This is true. Partially because (A) people who drank suddenly became criminals and (B) because of the more serious issue, organized crime. Be sure to factor out the former.

Illegal drugs are for the simple minded.
Philosophers and great thinkers the world around have used illegal drugs historically to expand their understanding of the world. As with any substance, including foods, caffeine, sugars, drugs illicit a response that your body is capable of producing (e.g., your body doesn't produce NEW hormones when you're on an illicit substance - it produces more of existing ones). Many believe that increasing the production of particular hormones, and thus enhancing particular thought-responses, they are able to comprehend different aspects of the very real universe.

But it is clear that society can not legislate morality. This is why marijuana must be legalized. People will do this drug anyways, for any number of reasons.
This is true - if history has shown us one thing, it's that you can't fight social wars through law. The war on drugs was idiotic. Like a bamboo shoot, you have to bend with the storm, not stand firm - if you try to do that, you snap. It would have been much better if they legalized it, controlled it, discouraged its use when necessary, and provided help to keep its use as safe as possible.

This in it self will harm the users while the intelligent accumulate more wealth. Why do you think cigarettes are legal? Because the government knows they can’t stop smokers and they want the money they make from people buying them.
However, you're promoting intelligence, but not good action? Many, myself included, like to think we're beyond Darwinian evolution. Shouldn't we be promoting right action to our fellow man, rather than exploitation?

People think they are free because they have the choice to do drugs. But what they don’t realize is they are not free nor will they ever be. Are any of us really free?
So you're talking non-vacuous contradiction AND whether or not we have free will? Don't get me started =D Frankly I don't even see why you brought this up. It sounds terrible and it doesn't really make a point.

There is a word for people who are free of these addictions, it is called an adult.
Addictions are often physical, not just chemical, and this generalization above all is what I DON'T like about your point. There is nothing concrete that makes an adult, and addiction/non-addiction would be at the bottom of my list if I had to write one. There are things that adults go through that they went through their entire lifetime, just in varying amounts. e.g., there are very few people who discover themselves in full totality. As one Mr. Cat Stevens put it, they're all "on the road to find out". We all deal with insecurity, fears, and to our dying days, there is still a lot about life we don't understand.

What have I tried to pass as fact that is not?
I would have to ask "what have you tried to pass as fact that is"? Here are the things you said that I consider fact:

- Humans are not all the capable of making good decisions all the time.
- This is why we have laws. Laws are supposed to protect us, even if it is from ourselves.
- it is clear that society can not legislate morality.
- People are still doing marijuana even though it is illegal

Here are the things that I think are opinion, or flat out wrong:
- Illegal drugs are for the simple minded
- The only reason why drugs are still around to this day is because they make the people who are smart enough to stay off of them wealthy.
- This is why marijuana must be legalized [so the intelligent can exploit the simple minded]
- we must let the people who think it is alright to do marijuana be able to do it
- This in it self will harm the users while the intelligent accumulate more wealth
- There is a word for people who are free of these addictions, it is called an adult.

Notice a little disparity there?

Let the simple die out and let the complex rule.
You imply that complexity is desirable and that simplicity is expendable? The so-called complex would cease to exist without the simple. Simple fact. I hate to bring it up, but slavery, immigration, and cheap labor are what make modern society possible. So you may think you're better, and who knows, it may be true, BUT - the "simple" as you put it are just as, if no moreso, necessary that you. We only need a very few complex, but we need a LOT of the "simple". So, the way I see it, you extraneous complex are the more likely to die out.

I should also point out that you're alikening wealth to complexity, which is absurd.

The top 1% profits from the bottom 99%. It's only 1% because it's hard to be one of those people - and they're not necessarily the "complex". Sometimes they're just business savvy, sometimes they're just ruthless. Do you think there's room in there for you?

Not to mention that Mensa, a society for the top 2% (gauged by intelligence, not wealth), arguably a filter for the complex - but many of their members are garbage men, the homeless, and middle classers. Complexity does not dictate ambition.

Finally, everyone, I'm calling "troll" on this guy, and really, the worst kind. The kind who sparks debate and decides to switch his argument up every few posts.

Yes, you DID suggest that the "simple" should die out. You DID suggest the "complex" should make money off the "simple". To say then that you didn't just makes this a waste of time.


Don't expect to hear from me again.
 
Eidolon:Like I said before the illegalization of alcohol only created more crime.

Phil:This is true. Partially because (A) people who drank suddenly became criminals and (B) because of the more serious issue, organized crime. Be sure to factor out the former.

Eidolon: So I was right?
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EIdolon: Illegal drugs are for the simple minded.
Phil: Philosophers and great thinkers the world around have used illegal drugs historically to expand their understanding of the world. As with any substance, including foods, caffeine, sugars, drugs illicit a response that your body is capable of producing (e.g., your body doesn't produce NEW hormones when you're on an illicit substance - it produces more of existing ones). Many believe that increasing the production of particular hormones, and thus enhancing particular thought-responses, they are able to comprehend different aspects of the very real universe.

Eidolon: So let’s legalize it.
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Eidolon: But it is clear that society can not legislate morality. This is why marijuana must be legalized. People will do this drug anyways, for any number of reasons.
Phil: This is true - if history has shown us one thing, it's that you can't fight social wars through law. The war on drugs was idiotic. Like a bamboo shoot, you have to bend with the storm, not stand firm - if you try to do that, you snap. It would have been much better if they legalized it, controlled it, discouraged its use when necessary, and provided help to keep its use as safe as possible.

Eidolon: Nicely said.
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Eidolon:This in it self will harm the users while the intelligent accumulate more wealth. Why do you think cigarettes are legal? Because the government knows they can’t stop smokers and they want the money they make from people buying them.

Phil:However, you're promoting intelligence, but not good action? Many, myself included, like to think we're beyond Darwinian evolution. Shouldn't we be promoting right action to our fellow man, rather than exploitation?

Eidolon: I am promoting good action through intelligence. I don’t want to exploit anyone. I was just speaking for the government. The government wised up and realized there was no profit in prohibition.
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Eidolon: People think they are free because they have the choice to do drugs. But what they don’t realize is they are not free nor will they ever be. Are any of us really free?

Phil: So you're talking non-vacuous contradiction AND whether or not we have free will? Don't get me started =D Frankly I don't even see why you brought this up. It sounds terrible and it doesn't really make a point.

Eidolon: You think you’re free, and then you try an addicting drug then become a slave to it. It had nothing to do with legalizing the drug. I said it was a discussion for another time.
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Eidolon: There is a word for people who are free of these addictions, it is called an adult.

Phil: Addictions are often physical, not just chemical, and this generalization above all is what I DON'T like about your point. There is nothing concrete that makes an adult, and addiction/non-addiction would be at the bottom of my list if I had to write one. There are things that adults go through that they went through their entire lifetime, just in varying amounts. e.g., there are very few people who discover themselves in full totality. As one Mr. Cat Stevens put it, they're all "on the road to find out". We all deal with insecurity, fears, and to our dying days, there is still a lot about life we don't understand.

Eidolon: Over 2,000 years of human existence and we are still making the same mistakes. Maybe it is time to look at the past and learn from each others mistakes. That was my definition of being an adult, and I happen to like it.
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Fil: “Finally, everyone, I'm calling "troll" on this guy, and really, the worst kind. The kind who sparks debate and decides to switch his argument up every few posts.”

Fil: “Okay, well, first of all, all this high-falutin self-righteous sarcasm is really obnoxious.”

Chris: “A change of pace? You've only ever made 12 posts on this forum so, prior to this thread, there was no pace. Seems to me that you only came here to argue or, 'debate' as you like to put it - aren't there forums out there better suited to that than a fitness forum?!”

Merik: “you're like a girl.”

Shark: “dude, where you high when you wrote this?”

I find it interesting people attack me and not my argument. Stay on issue people, I am not the enemy.
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Marijuana is actually less dangerous than alcohol, cigarettes, and even most over-the-counter medicines or prescriptions. Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care. For marijuana to be illegal in the United States when alcohol poisoning is a major cause of death in this country and approximately 400,000 premature deaths are attributed to cigarettes annually. To be legal or not to be legal, that is the question.
 
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Angelkae: "retard" is NOT an acceptable term for mentally handicapped or disabled individuals.

That was wrong of me to say. It is not acceptable term to call anyone.
 
Not be legal
If you are in any doubts on why I say that take a visit to any police departments and see the pictures/videos or car wrecks etc caused as a result of drug taking (and yes including Marijuana)
There is plenty of documentation and experiments conducted that demonstrate the slowing of reaction times whilst driving under the influenence of drugs....
Legalising it will not stop the use of it all it will do is make the black market more active in obtaining it and supplying it at a cheaper price
 
Eidolon said:
I find it interesting people attack me and not my argument. Stay on issue people, I am not the enemy.

Just to put the record straight for you, I didn't attack you. I simply asked whether this was the best forum for you to indulge your argumentative ways (no, thats not attacking you either). If you feel you were being attacked, that probably says more about you than about me ;)

As Fil has said, you seem to be swapping your view left, right & centre so, there is very little point addressing any of your arguments in the first place.

Your initial post stated basically that you believe only simple minded people ever indulge in the useage of illegal drugs (be they recreational or performance enhancing presumably). That is absolutely not true but, you will argue anyway. I don't know where you get your information/ideology from but, I would look somewhere else if I were you.

I don't think you're the enemy, I just think you're incorrect and that this may not have been the best way to introduce yourself to a new forum (imho).

Enjoy the rest of your debate.
 
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