meh im back

M

marinefootball

0
well about 6 months ago i had a shoulder surgery done due to a football injury, because of that i missed this years season but anyways im looking at getting back in the weight room again...i can pretty much kiss my bench goal away :( but will it be easier for me to get it back or will i basically have to start on a clean slate again as far as benching
 
You should grow back to where you were a little quicker than if you were just starting..

You do more exercises that just chest correct?
 
i do more than chest, when i weightlifting during the season i did chest in the morning everyday during gym ( i know not the best idea) and then after practice i did legs on tues and thrus and then everynight i did cardio....mostly stationary bike....lol i remember everyone getting on my case about lifting twice a day
 
I'm sure you know some of this already, but I'll list it out anyway...

DON'T:
- Lift twice a day.
- Train a muscle two days in a row. EVER.
- Overtrain, which you are clearly doing.


DO:
- Give your muscles 48-72 hours (about 2-3 days) worth of rest, since that's about how long they take to recover.
- Work your back and biceps! Do cable rows, pull-ups, bent-over barbell rows, etc.
 
LeanBean said:
I'm sure you know some of this already, but I'll list it out anyway...

DON'T:
- Lift twice a day.
- Train a muscle two days in a row. EVER.
- Overtrain, which you are clearly doing.


DO:
- Give your muscles 48-72 hours (about 2-3 days) worth of rest, since that's about how long they take to recover.
- Work your back and biceps! Do cable rows, pull-ups, bent-over barbell rows, etc.
Click to expand...

An awful lot of absolutes for not a lot of evidence.

In general you've laid out solid guidelines, but these are not immutable laws. I break four of the five you listed on a fairly regular basis.

Bonus points if you can figure out which four.
 
- Lift twice a day.
- Train a muscle two days in a row.
- Give your muscles 48-72 hours (about 2-3 days) worth of rest, since that's about how long they take to recover.
- Work your back and biceps! Do cable rows, pull-ups, bent-over barbell rows, etc.
Click to expand...


If you were doing four of the five, you had to be doing three of the four (since three of them were directly related). The last and final one was guess work, but since you've been training for so long, your volume is higher than most, which implies that you don't overtrain. The final choice was then revealed through process of elimination.
 
Actually it was the one about not working the pulling muscles. I work them quite thoroughly.

I commonly lift twice a day when time allows, I pretty regularly work muscles two days in a row (specific work creates specific fatigue), I "overtrain" [sic] on purpose from time to time, and while I keep in mind the 48-72 hour recovery window, I also realize that stress and adaptation occur over much longer time frames; assigning importance to micro-level variables is pretty superfluous in the context of a macro-level event.
 
PMDilly said:
I commonly lift twice a day when time allows, I pretty regularly work muscles two days in a row (specific work creates specific fatigue), I "overtrain" [sic] on purpose from time to time, and while I keep in mind the 48-72 hour recovery window, I also realize that stress and adaptation occur over much longer time frames; assigning importance to micro-level variables is pretty superfluous in the context of a macro-level event.
Click to expand...
How are there are benefits from "purposely overtraining" or training the same muscle group two days in a row?

If you're going to train twice a day, you should be VERY experienced and be training two separate groups (I would think you'd want to train the secondary to your primary body part). Training twice a day (lifting, not cardio) is really overkill unless you're using steroids and are able to recover quickly enough. Cardio is fine on training days but it should be spaced out, and you shouldn't do cardio when you train legs.

I understand that he was most likely conditioning for football...but just to state my opinion, I see it that most football teams have terrible workout regimens that only cause overtraining. I have guy friends still in high school who play football asking me things like, "I've been training chest every day like coach says and I'm getting weaker. What am I doing wrong?!" Perhaps it's because you're training chest every single day?
 
He is suggesting that overtraining in the short run has benefits that superceed those not overtraining in the long run.

Of course, the difference between he and marine lies simply in the fact that he knows what he's doing, and marine doesn't.

Therefore, marine, it's wise for you to stop overtraining.
 
LeiYunFat said:
Of course, the difference between he and marine lies simply in the fact that he knows what he's doing, and marine doesn't.
Click to expand...
While it does seem like he knows what he's doing and has experience, I just fail to see why he's training muscles with insufficient recovery time.

Of course, there are guys who do that, but that's probably because they're on steroids.
 
LeanBean said:
How are there are benefits from "purposely overtraining" or training the same muscle group two days in a row?

If you're going to train twice a day, you should be VERY experienced and be training two separate groups (I would think you'd want to train the secondary to your primary body part). Training twice a day (lifting, not cardio) is really overkill unless you're using steroids and are able to recover quickly enough. Cardio is fine on training days but it should be spaced out, and you shouldn't do cardio when you train legs.

I understand that he was most likely conditioning for football...but just to state my opinion, I see it that most football teams have terrible workout regimens that only cause overtraining. I have guy friends still in high school who play football asking me things like, "I've been training chest every day like coach says and I'm getting weaker. What am I doing wrong?!" Perhaps it's because you're training chest every single day?
Click to expand...

These two will sum it up nicely (to blow my own horn). You may or may not have seen them published on EliteFTS not too long ago:



Suffice it to say, your understanding is rooted in an outdated and rather flawed model of stress/recovery. The macro-level is important, not workout to workout.
 
Dilly, what has worked for you will not work for most people without a very high level of knowledge. There are basic guidelines that most people have to follow to see any realistic results. Once they get really deep into it and tailor it for their own body, needs, and goals, almost anything can change. It is not as helpful as you think to be throwing out conflicting information against good advice.
 
CRAP. I just now remembered about what I read in a bodybuilding book (I think it was by Arthur Jones) about something called over-reaching - where you purposely get into barely overtraining or really close and then take a little rest period, and it helps you get past plateaus and aid gains; but only if you do this every once in awhile as long as you get a rest period later on. I'm sure that's what you meant, right?

My bad! :eek:


littlemac said:
hey Beaner! why can't you do cardio on leg days?
Click to expand...
You can, but for me personally, I don't....I try to avoid leg-based cardio on leg days. If ever I do cardio on the same day as lifting, I do it after weights, and with low intensity.
 
i dont no...i realized when i benched and other arm workouts monday through friday and rested on sat and sunday my bench increased pretty rapidly...i did take a good supply of creatine and protien to which im guessin helped my muscle recovery
 
Derwyddon said:
Dilly, what has worked for you will not work for most people without a very high level of knowledge. There are basic guidelines that most people have to follow to see any realistic results. Once they get really deep into it and tailor it for their own body, needs, and goals, almost anything can change. It is not as helpful as you think to be throwing out conflicting information against good advice.
Click to expand...

....which is why I noted that they were good guidelines, just not immutable laws of training.

Really, I don't need to be continually lectured on how to coddle the noobs.
 
LeanBean said:
CRAP. I just now remembered about what I read in a bodybuilding book (I think it was by Arthur Jones) about something called over-reaching - where you purposely get into barely overtraining or really close and then take a little rest period, and it helps you get past plateaus and aid gains; but only if you do this every once in awhile as long as you get a rest period later on. I'm sure that's what you meant, right?

My bad! :eek:
Click to expand...

Delayed transformation is king, yes.
 
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