Lower Pecks?
- Thread starter Tommy_B
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Crunches will help definitely, but the diet's got to be there as well. Try a couple of different diets, see what works for you. Atkins for example, cuts the carbs out and works for many, as does the South Beach Diet.
No muscle divides neatly into different sections, yet it's quite obvious that different exercises hit different areas of the muscle.
No muscle divides neatly into different sections, yet it's quite obvious that different exercises hit different areas of the muscle.
thanx pumpster i will do some research on what diet would be good for me... i have done some research and found out about hard gainers??? i have never had to watch my weight and i am quite a slim person i am about 5'7" and i weigh about 130 pounds. my friends always say my back and arms are great however i have to work on my abs and pecks. being a hardgainer would this mean i would have to try different diets?
RoRoCo said:
Im 15 too, and I have been lifting weights for like over a month. What do you consider "HITTING HEAVY WEIGHTS"? Check out my workout plan in the "At Home" section and tell me what you think, when you have the time.
Thanks in advance!
Pumpster, while this is common thought, it's simply not true. When you work incline bench or db or fly, you still hit the entire portion of the pec muscle. You simply cannot control which portion of the pec you are working. The only thing that decline does is take the delts and more of the triceps out of the equation causing the pectoralis major to do almost all of the work.
Contraction happens in a four part series, fast twitch happening about 7.5 milliseconds and slow twich happening about 100 milliseconds.
The short version and why you cannot control which part of the muscle you hit is this reason-
When a nerve signal approaches the end of an axon, it spreads out over all of its terminal branches and stimulates all the muscle fibers supplied by them. Thus, these muscle fibers contract in unison. Since they behave as a single functional unit, one nerve fiber and all the muscle fibers innervated by it are called a motor unit. The muscle fibers of a single motor unit are not clustered together but are dispersed throughout a muscle. Thus, when they are stimulated, they cause a weak contraction over a wide area--not just a localized twitch in one small region.
Tommy, very few people are actually "hardgainers," they simply just don't eat enough. I suggest you go to www.johnberardi.com go to his articles, click the nutrition ones and look for his Massive Eating article. It will outline how many calories you will need to eat in order to maintain, gain, or lose.
Contraction happens in a four part series, fast twitch happening about 7.5 milliseconds and slow twich happening about 100 milliseconds.
The short version and why you cannot control which part of the muscle you hit is this reason-
When a nerve signal approaches the end of an axon, it spreads out over all of its terminal branches and stimulates all the muscle fibers supplied by them. Thus, these muscle fibers contract in unison. Since they behave as a single functional unit, one nerve fiber and all the muscle fibers innervated by it are called a motor unit. The muscle fibers of a single motor unit are not clustered together but are dispersed throughout a muscle. Thus, when they are stimulated, they cause a weak contraction over a wide area--not just a localized twitch in one small region.
Tommy, very few people are actually "hardgainers," they simply just don't eat enough. I suggest you go to www.johnberardi.com go to his articles, click the nutrition ones and look for his Massive Eating article. It will outline how many calories you will need to eat in order to maintain, gain, or lose.
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@Evo -> What do you think about the "15 too young to lift weights" thing? Do you agree?
I knew you'd try to correct me, because it's clear that's you're completely convinced of your position to the exclusion of anyone else's; classic myopia. Truth is, it's simply your opinion and should be stated as such. My prediction, and i hope i'm wrong, is that because you are 100% convinced that you alone are the last word and know the truth, you'll be compelled to respond with an avalanche of more facts and figures. There's no conclusive evidence on many aspects of exercise and training, and the best solutions depart from rigid positions. Instead, the best conclusions are cocktails comprised of all available evidence in the form of experience (trial and error), common sense and knowledge/research.
There may be only one muscle, but many muscles are comprised of various heads, ie. biceps and triceps. In addition, each exercise and variation including different grips and angles, hits different portions of each muscle. The difference in using one angle or grip or another can be quite pronounced. This is both my experience and opinion. Decline presses and flyes for lower pecs, incline presses and flyes for uppper, different width grips on curls for inner/outer biceps, etc.
Bottom line: everyone should experiment for themselves with all possible variations and come to their own conclusions.
If the idea is to train hard and gain good muscle, find a good milk and egg based protein powder to mix with milk. If you buy it in a larger size, it doesn't have to be expensive, but first try a few brands and see which one you like regarding taste. Mix the powder into a glass of milk and drink it between meals, 3 times a day for 6 weeks or so, then take a break of 4-6 weeks or so, and repeat. Generally speaking, you need to gain "good" weight while training hard to make gains, and drinking the extra protein is the easiest way to do it.
15's definitely not too young. I started working out at 12, with only positive results that definitely helped me to have an edge in sports. Like any research, you'll see conflicting evidence online on working out at an early age, so keep that in mind. The only danger I can see is that because you're not as strong or coordinated as you will be later in life, you might have difficulty controlling heavier weights when lifting, so make sure to always either have a spotter to help you, or a rack/cage to easily allow you to put the weight back down when you're close to failure. Also, don't go below 8-12 reps per set, that way the weights you're using won't be so heavy that you have trouble controlling them. 8-12 reps is generally best for muscle development anyway, and will also reduce the chances of hurting your ligaments and tendons the way using heavier weights with lower reps can. Always do 2 good warmup sets with lighter weights for a muscle before getting to the heavier weights.
There may be only one muscle, but many muscles are comprised of various heads, ie. biceps and triceps. In addition, each exercise and variation including different grips and angles, hits different portions of each muscle. The difference in using one angle or grip or another can be quite pronounced. This is both my experience and opinion. Decline presses and flyes for lower pecs, incline presses and flyes for uppper, different width grips on curls for inner/outer biceps, etc.
Bottom line: everyone should experiment for themselves with all possible variations and come to their own conclusions.
If the idea is to train hard and gain good muscle, find a good milk and egg based protein powder to mix with milk. If you buy it in a larger size, it doesn't have to be expensive, but first try a few brands and see which one you like regarding taste. Mix the powder into a glass of milk and drink it between meals, 3 times a day for 6 weeks or so, then take a break of 4-6 weeks or so, and repeat. Generally speaking, you need to gain "good" weight while training hard to make gains, and drinking the extra protein is the easiest way to do it.
15's definitely not too young. I started working out at 12, with only positive results that definitely helped me to have an edge in sports. Like any research, you'll see conflicting evidence online on working out at an early age, so keep that in mind. The only danger I can see is that because you're not as strong or coordinated as you will be later in life, you might have difficulty controlling heavier weights when lifting, so make sure to always either have a spotter to help you, or a rack/cage to easily allow you to put the weight back down when you're close to failure. Also, don't go below 8-12 reps per set, that way the weights you're using won't be so heavy that you have trouble controlling them. 8-12 reps is generally best for muscle development anyway, and will also reduce the chances of hurting your ligaments and tendons the way using heavier weights with lower reps can. Always do 2 good warmup sets with lighter weights for a muscle before getting to the heavier weights.
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Evo is right on the pec anatomy. It's the same with the abs, there is no lower, upper, or middle. Decline just recruits a different percentage of muscles. Certain people have beefer upper abs or lower pecs, whatever, because of genetics. Its the same reason why some people have staggered abs and some have very symmetric abs.
Bottom line: everyone should experiment for themselves with all possible variations and come to their own conclusions.
First I want to say that I agree with the parameters of 8-12 reps and staying away from maximal lifting till the age of 17+.
Now, Pumpster, you make it look like I'm simply arrogant and above being wrong and this is simply not true. I am not convinced of my opinion, I am convinced of facts and truisms and one of those being that you cannot seperate the pec major into sections. You can put more emphasis on it by taking away the delts and triceps in the decline position and that is something that is taught in a basic applied anatomy class.
You're right on a few accounts that most of exercise physiology has been discovered by experimentation and it's only recently that science has been able to prove or disprove certain claims. Will decline work the chest more? Sure because you do not have as many synergists in the equation but my point was it does not isolate the muscle. In order to truly change the shape of a muscle you would have to move the insertion points. So, the truth and not my opinion is you cannot do decline this or that at the seclusion of any part of the pec muscle, it's an all or none hit. Will doing flyes cause a different stress on the muscle than benching? Sure. This is mainly due to the flying motion being the pec's greatest movement of strength-adduction.
I am hardly the last word and always willing to admit when I'm wrong, please do not make me out to be someone who thinks they are on a pedestal. The truth is there are a great many of people that know far more than I do; I'm simply making my way through exercise phys knowledge as much as anyone else is.
You're spreading this out of the original post. When you bring in muscle groups that are comprised of different heads and those heads may be fast or slow twitch dominant, then you're bringing something different and yes...different movements are needed to ensure a proper full "hit." The example being the triceps needs two different types of movement to hit the three different heads, one being an overhead extension. The same with the biceps, certain movements will stress certain heads more than others, some movements will work the brachioradialis and some will not, etc. The same can be seen with the calf, the soleus being one twitch fiber and the gastrocenemius being another twitch fiber, so they each need different angles and parameters.
However, while yes you can cause a different stress to the pec major by different angles and different movements, you cannot hit the lower portion of the pecs without hitting the upper portion of the pec and that is fact, not my opinion. The pec has no heads, one origin and a couple of insertions. The entire muscle fires and a complete contraction happens, not a localized one.
So, while I agree with you on most of your points, I disagree on some.
First I want to say that I agree with the parameters of 8-12 reps and staying away from maximal lifting till the age of 17+.
Now, Pumpster, you make it look like I'm simply arrogant and above being wrong and this is simply not true. I am not convinced of my opinion, I am convinced of facts and truisms and one of those being that you cannot seperate the pec major into sections. You can put more emphasis on it by taking away the delts and triceps in the decline position and that is something that is taught in a basic applied anatomy class.
You're right on a few accounts that most of exercise physiology has been discovered by experimentation and it's only recently that science has been able to prove or disprove certain claims. Will decline work the chest more? Sure because you do not have as many synergists in the equation but my point was it does not isolate the muscle. In order to truly change the shape of a muscle you would have to move the insertion points. So, the truth and not my opinion is you cannot do decline this or that at the seclusion of any part of the pec muscle, it's an all or none hit. Will doing flyes cause a different stress on the muscle than benching? Sure. This is mainly due to the flying motion being the pec's greatest movement of strength-adduction.
I am hardly the last word and always willing to admit when I'm wrong, please do not make me out to be someone who thinks they are on a pedestal. The truth is there are a great many of people that know far more than I do; I'm simply making my way through exercise phys knowledge as much as anyone else is.
You're spreading this out of the original post. When you bring in muscle groups that are comprised of different heads and those heads may be fast or slow twitch dominant, then you're bringing something different and yes...different movements are needed to ensure a proper full "hit." The example being the triceps needs two different types of movement to hit the three different heads, one being an overhead extension. The same with the biceps, certain movements will stress certain heads more than others, some movements will work the brachioradialis and some will not, etc. The same can be seen with the calf, the soleus being one twitch fiber and the gastrocenemius being another twitch fiber, so they each need different angles and parameters.
However, while yes you can cause a different stress to the pec major by different angles and different movements, you cannot hit the lower portion of the pecs without hitting the upper portion of the pec and that is fact, not my opinion. The pec has no heads, one origin and a couple of insertions. The entire muscle fires and a complete contraction happens, not a localized one.
So, while I agree with you on most of your points, I disagree on some.
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Bogged down in semantics and verbiage re: muscle vs. general area-he's not concerned with whether the muscle divides or not, the question's whether different exercises hit different zones of the same area. Different exercises hit the lateral, medial and long heads of the triceps muscle for example. Same thing with upper, lower portions of the pecs, whether they're all the same muscle or not isn't the point.
Forget whether the muscle actually divides into upper/lower, different exercises effect different portions of the area. Decline presses/flyes for the lower portion of the chest area (area, if that's better, not muscle).
Forget whether the muscle actually divides into upper/lower, different exercises effect different portions of the area. Decline presses/flyes for the lower portion of the chest area (area, if that's better, not muscle).
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I was lifting 10pound weights.... And if i did them very concentrated and slowly, you could feel the burn, but I never struggled with them(Except for tricep overhead extensions, which are a bit difficult for me using a 10 pounder). For Biceps I know I can move up a bit more weight... maybe 20pound, or so... But your opinion, should i stick to my 10 pounder?
thanx everyone for your input u have explained in good detail about the up and lower "AREAS" of the pecs. some research sites confused me at first when they seaid about uper and lower pecs and it made me think that upper pecks and lower pecks are to different muscles but now i know they are not.
also thanx for the link on the rite foods to eat to gain weight and the information on protein shakes.
u guys know your stuff
thanx agen
also thanx for the link on the rite foods to eat to gain weight and the information on protein shakes.
u guys know your stuff
thanx agen