Journey, Not A Destination

[Steve]

The comic strip said it all.
There are too many people who think anything becomes a fact if it's just repeated often enough. The same people accept anything as a fact without ever asking why, how come, how do we know that, who said that, where did you read it, who researched it, are there other sources that say something else. They then use the "fact" to make their point and are annoyed if they're asked any of the above questions.
I hope you're feeling good today.
Julie

I concur completely, Julie. If you have invested time in understanding a concept, you've proven the concept to be real and observable in everyday life, and science backs it up (this doesn't always have to hold true with things such as religion, for instance)..... I have no problem with you defending your point. I actually respect it. I want to hear your opinions. Why? Because you've proven yourself to not only care about the topic.... but you also went beyond hearsay in order understand the topic.

What I have a problem with is moron's who argue just to argue, with no concept of being incorrect. And it just so happens that often times, these people couldn't be further from being correct, nor have they ever truly *learned* anything about the subject.

And hearing something does NOT = learning something.... unlike some seem to think.

 

[Britta Bear]

We were blessed with two ears and one mouth - whcih means we should listen twice as much as we talk and rarely does that happen.

That is really good, Mal, do you mind if I put this on my list of quotes? hehe, Steve, I have a long list too...

 

[maleficent]

but don't attribute it to me -it's from Epiticus a greek philosoher

 

[Britta Bear]

The comic strip said it all.
There are too many people who think anything becomes a fact if it's just repeated often enough. The same people accept anything as a fact without ever asking why, how come, how do we know that, who said that, where did you read it, who researched it, are there other sources that say something else. They then use the "fact" to make their point and are annoyed if they're asked any of the above questions.
I hope you're feeling good today.
Julie

Whenever I start asking the questions like "how come, who said that, etc.", people get offended like I am trying to argue them. Like i dont trust their judgement, when very often, I dont know them well enough to trust their judgement. I think those questions are MOST important, because without them, we have a bunch of useless opinions going around as facts.

 

[Britta Bear]

but don't attribute it to me -it's from Epiticus a greek philosoher

Lol, cool. Thanks Mal

 

[Steve]

Anyone who's lost 5 lbs thinks their way is the best way and they are experts.... I don't remember the comedian that said it but there's one that said that people on atkins didn't lose weight because the diet they lost weight by pontificating on how great the diet was and how everyone should be on it - and from the atkins users I saw - it's absolutely true -it was like their own version of the hari krishnas minus the tamborines.

Anonyminity on a forum brings out the "I am always right and you're an idiot" expert mode in too many people and very few see it in themselves but can easily spot it in others (and no that wasn't any kind of indirect hint) Another forum I'm spending less and less time on because I've just gotten bored with it - is a forum where politics, religion and sex are the hot topics of debate... good luck trying to get anyone to see a point of view that's not like their own.

People believe what they want to believe...

Why try to end a topic? I've done it lots of time - the old expression - what's the best part of beating your head against a brick wall? It's stopping - some conversations just go nowehre it's two people talking at each other and not to each other and not listening to each other. We were blessed with two ears and one mouth - whcih means we should listen twice as much as we talk and rarely does that happen.

Good post Mal.

And I will be the first to admit, I find myself talking AT people more than To people on forums. Why? There are so many deaf ears. Deaf ears seem to make rational thinking for difficult.

I've been doing it for quite a while, talking on forums, and the longer I do it.... the more I feel like it's a battle. I've actually had to show people what they've said in the above thread in order to *help* them understand that they are "bashing their heads against a brick wall."

I've naturally adapted to talk at people because of this, and I don't like it.

I will be the first to admit that I am far from perfect. But I will also be the first to ask questions, pay attention, and learn a thing or two when someone who is discussing something that I am not competently informed of opens his/her mouth.

What's with the power struggle to be the "know it all?" What does appearing to never be wrong actually get you? Especially in a world such as the web where anonymity is everything. Does it feel good to be a know it all when not one person actually knows YOU at all? I don't expect answers to these questions.

And I know that many on here think I am a know it all. Take me over to a forum where I know very little. Take me to your other forum, Mal, regarding politics. You will see that I am very far from a know it all. I am competent with information concerning fitness and some nutrition. So I speak about it. That is all.

 

[Steve]

Seriously... How are things ever going to change if we can't talk....

I get the 'lets talk about how many great things there are in life...' and three minutes later, the same person is talking about something that is a total downer, more so than the previous conversation.

There are things we NEED to talk about because the topics are a reality, and people are afraid of that.
People neglecting to accept reality are everywhere, and when will they understand that this neglect is the cause for most of the things that are 'taboo' to speak of.

This conversation can go so much deeper than just 'thinking'.
I think that more people need to take responsibility for the state of the things they dont want to face.
Obviously this goes way beyond fitness, and religion(which is where I see it most often). Ignoring one hard fact makes it easier to ignore another.

Living in denial is a way of life for many.

That's why a majority have mid-life crisis. They wake up one day and think, "Oh my goodness, I don't like my old self and time is running out."

If you want to be real with yourself, you must learn to accept the reality that surrounds you.

 

[maleficent]

What's with the power struggle to be the "know it all?"

you don't expect answers but since I think I know everything (Note I said think - reality is I don't have a clue most times but I just pay attention to people and I'd like to think I have a pretty good understanding of human nature

A lot of the power struggle comes from the anonyminity (one of these days I'll learn how to spell) that comes from the internet... When you doin't see who you are arguing with - it's easy to fall into the I need to be right - because other people are watching and I'll lose respect if I lose this argument.

What does appearing to never be wrong actually get you? Especially in a world such as the web where anonymity is everything. Does it feel good to be a know it all when not one person actually knows YOU at all?

very few people really know me - but not because i'm a know it all but because I will rarely get drawn into really passionate discussions (anymore that is... I've found it exhausting after a while)

I appear to be a know it all on some things because my life experience has put me in that position... but I also know that I'm not going to change too many minds and people have to come to their own conclusions -all you can do is give them the information...

Living in denial is a way of life for many.

that's not the reason for my midlife crisis but that's another story for another day

 

[CaseyAtMartin]

Steve-

I can agree with you on the debate ordeal. Most people have no idea how. I took a course in Elementary Logic in the spring. We didn't get to debate much, but we did learn about different formal and informal fallacies, diagramming arguments, etc. Some people just need their egos deflated.

 

[Steve]

When you doin't see who you are arguing with - it's easy to fall into the I need to be right - because other people are watching and I'll lose respect if I lose this argument.

See, I know you are correct, since everyone pushes to be right and ssave face even though in most instances while they are pushing for it, they end up proving their idiocy.

However, it seems to me that anonymity would lead to a willingness to learn and admit being wrong. Who cares? You are anonymous!!! In real life, I understand the need to save face. But unless you are putting yourself out there in a position of authority on the web.... why the need to save face when nobody really knows you? Why do you care what others think of you, when these "others" don't know you.

that's not the reason for my midlife crisis but that's another story for another day

I hope I have a mid-life crisis. I want a Porsche.

 

[Steve]

Steve-

I can agree with you on the debate ordeal. Most people have no idea how. I took a course in Elementary Logic in the spring. We didn't get to debate much, but we did learn about different formal and informal fallacies, diagramming arguments, etc. Some people just need their egos deflated.

That is very cool, Casey. Everyone should be required to take that course before being handed a degree.

 

[maleficent]

Why do you care what others think of you, when these "others" don't know you

because there are some people, like me, who really don't have a big life outside the web so it's a personal validation - yes it may come from random strangers on the web but it's still validation of a sort...

Most people out there who spend a lot of time on the web, do not have the social circle that you do and the web is really a big connection to the outside world

OK i just sounded really pathetic

I don't want a porche -I want a (be careful here mal) 29 year old muscle bound boy toy

 

[Britta Bear]

See, I know you are correct, since everyone pushes to be right and ssave face even though in most instances while they are pushing for it, they end up proving their idiocy.

However, it seems to me that anonymity would lead to a willingness to learn and admit being wrong. Who cares? You are anonymous!!! In real life, I understand the need to save face. But unless you are putting yourself out there in a position of authority on the web.... why the need to save face when nobody really knows you? Why do you care what others think of you, when these "others" don't know you.



I hope I have a mid-life crisis. I want a Porsche.

Dave wants a corvette. I told him I get one too, if I have to put up with him during a midlife crisis.

 

[Steve]

because there are some people, like me, who really don't have a big life outside the web so it's a personal validation - yes it may come from random strangers on the web but it's still validation of a sort...

Most people out there who spend a lot of time on the web, do not have the social circle that you do and the web is really a big connection to the outside world

OK i just sounded really pathetic

I don't want a porche -I want a (be careful here mal) 29 year old muscle bound boy toy

Haha, having an active social life does not create some automatic "coolness." And on the flip-side, not having an active social life does nothing to increase the degree of patheticness that someone is.

I know plenty of sociable people who are equally pathetic and vice versa.

Gosh, does any of that make sense?

Anyhoo, you are not pathetic Mal.

And to be honest, the web has opened up my world and led some very wonderful, real, down to earth people into my life. Something that would otherwise be scarce it the web didn't exist. I'd rather hang out with some people from the web then people I know IRL.

I've actually met quite a few people from the various "web social circles" I frequent.... which as always turned out awesome.

Back on point, I guess I kind of get what you are saying with regards to that validation.

 

[Steve]

Dave wants a corvette. I told him I get one too, if I have to put up with him during a midlife crisis.

I do like the new corvettes. It offers a lot of car for not a lot of money, relatively speaking.

I still LOVE my car. But when it's time to upgrade, it's going to be hard to find something as fun as it without spending a small fortune.

 

[Britta Bear]

because there are some people, like me, who really don't have a big life outside the web so it's a personal validation - yes it may come from random strangers on the web but it's still validation of a sort...

Most people out there who spend a lot of time on the web, do not have the social circle that you do and the web is really a big connection to the outside world

OK i just sounded really pathetic

I don't want a porche -I want a (be careful here mal) 29 year old muscle bound boy toy

you're not pathetic. not one bit.
while I may have a social life, i find it hard to have a real conversation with someone in my social circle. people dont just TALK anymore.
So, I find it easy to jump on the web and relate to like minded people that way.
I think everyone here does that to some extent.

 

[Steve]

I might add, I am planning on living to the ripe age of 175. So I still have 62 or so more years until I experience my mid-life crisis.

 

[Britta Bear]

I do like the new corvettes. It offers a lot of car for not a lot of money, relatively speaking.

I still LOVE my car. But when it's time to upgrade, it's going to be hard to find something as fun as it without spending a small fortune.

what kind of car do you have again?

Sheesh, I love my car too, but it's nothing spectacular. I drive a 2005 corolla S.
I used to have a jetta, and I really drove that thing into the ground. I miss having a manual trans. but i'm almos glad I dont have one now. If that makes sense....

 

[Britta Bear]

I might add, I am planning on living to the ripe age of 175. So I still have 62 or so more years until I experience my mid-life crisis.

seriously? I would only want to live that old if I were able to get around independantly....which is not likely...

 

[Steve]

what kind of car do you have again?

Sheesh, I love my car too, but it's nothing spectacular. I drive a 2005 corolla S.
I used to have a jetta, and I really drove that thing into the ground. I miss having a manual trans. but i'm almos glad I dont have one now. If that makes sense....

Here is a pic of the exact same car. I think there is a pic of my car in my photo album link too, found in my sig.