Journey, Not A Destination

[mnexercisegirl]

Hey Steve
Hope you're feeling better. It's taking me a little longer to finish the book you recommended, due to this thing called Life and not having enough time. Anyhow, I was reading it the other night and he got into sets, reps, exercises, workouts. I was a little put off with his recommendation of doing 3-6 reps, versus the traditional 8-12. I'm not a big fan of the 3-6, since my main goal is to tone up. Wouldn't it be better to do 8-12? I've been doing that this past month and I get sore the next day. Isn't that an indication that your workout is working? After I read that statement, I didn't really want to read anymore. Maybe I should still keep reading?

 

[Steve]

Hey Steve
Hope you're feeling better. It's taking me a little longer to finish the book you recommended, due to this thing called Life and not having enough time. Anyhow, I was reading it the other night and he got into sets, reps, exercises, workouts. I was a little put off with his recommendation of doing 3-6 reps, versus the traditional 8-12. I'm not a big fan of the 3-6, since my main goal is to tone up. Wouldn't it be better to do 8-12? I've been doing that this past month and I get sore the next day. Isn't that an indication that your workout is working? After I read that statement, I didn't really want to read anymore. Maybe I should still keep reading?

You are basing your assumptions on common misconceptions, so don't feel bad. Yes, read on for sure!

Theoretically, there is no such thing as toning. Think about it. Resistance training only does two things. Given the proper nutrition, it maintains or builds muscle. That is it. What exactly would you consider toning to be?

The "toned" look is a function of body fat levels. The less body fat you have, the more muscle will be exposed, and the more "ripped" you will look. Please realize that all of that has nothing to do with weight lifting.

Does this make sense to you?

Now, seeing as how you are going after a "toned" look, that means you need to shed some body fat. In order to shed the body fat, you need to be in a caloric deficit.

While in a caloric deficit, the ONLY thing resistance training does for you is wards of catabolism. This is a very important function btw.

A deficit will ALWAYS lead to tissue loss. This tissue can and will be comprised of muscle and fat. The idea is to supplement your calorie restricted diet with resistance training in order to send the right biochemical signals to trigger as much muscle maintenance as possible and let the losses come primarily from fat.

Muscle building is a very energy intensive process. That said, energy must be sufficient in order for the process to take place. Calories are energy. So, you need to have a sufficient level of calories in order to induce hypertrophy. By sufficient, I mean in excess of your normal maintenance level. You are going to be in a caloric deficit right now, so forget about chasing hypertrophy. Follow me?

So while dieting down in a calorie deficit, you are limited to the role resistance training plays on your physique. Again, it is there to help maintain and that is all.

Maintaining muscle is not a difficult process, and too many "gurus" don't let the gen pop know how to do it. They keep training parameters the same regardless of goal or nutritional status and this is a huge "no-no."

Due to your limited energy intake and limited recovery ability, you need to be very efficient and wise in your program selection. Very brief and intense workouts are best suited to accommodate a calorie deficit. Honestly, a very general, blanket recommendation I would have no problem making to ANYONE looking to supplement their calorie restricted diet with resistance training is this:

2 total body workouts per week consisting of the big barbell lifts; squats, deadlifts, horizontal pressing and pulling, and vertical pressing and pulling.

Sets would very with the periodization scheme, but something like 5 sets of 5 is ideal in my opinion.

Intensity, meaning weight on the bar, is the main component of successful muscle maintenance while dieting. Since this is the case, lowered rep ranges are ideal.

Lot of stuff, here, so let me know if you followed me.

 

[Steve]

Pending on how this conversation plays out, I might copy and paste in one of the other forums as a reference, since I find myself discussing this time and time again.... not that I mind it. But figured it might help someone.

 

[maleficent]

i was gonna suggest it - it's good information and should really be given more attention... not that i mind coming into your journal and misbehaving a bit but it's good info - some i was looking for myself...

 

[mnexercisegirl]

You are basing your assumptions on common misconceptions, so don't feel bad. Yes, read on for sure!

Lot of stuff, here, so let me know if you followed me.

OK, I'm going to try to summarize what you told me just so I'm getting it. My definition of toned is (to an extent):
View attachment 2695

I know that this takes a lot of dedication and lots and lots of changes, but I will eventually get there - eventually. Anyhow, so what you're telling me is that in order for me to get my "toned" look, I need to decrease my calorie intake and eat "clean" to shed fat and do resistence training to maintain what I have underneath. Is that right?

What does role does cardio play in this or doesn't it? I've been a runner for about 5 years, 2 marathons, a dozen 5Ks, 10 miles recently. I've noticed that when I ran the marathons I never saw my muscles and I always kept my calories under maintenace, which for me is about 2000/day. (I did a RMR test and a MAP test and it came out that my RMR is about 1500/day and my anaerobic threshold is 166. So with my RMR I add about 500 (fairly active) to that number and it gives me 2000/day for maintenance - at least that's what the person who did the testing told me.) How come I didn't see muscles while I was training for my marathons, but my running partner did? We did the same things, worked out together, same weights, reps, etc. but I didn't see the results she did. It's frustrating...

Five reps of 5 with enough intensity. I have to change my mind set that this is the ideal. It's hard, since I've been with 2 trainers that have me doing workouts with 20 reps x 3. I will try this and see where it leads me.

Can you be my online trainer?

 

[Steve]

OK, I'm going to try to summarize what you told me just so I'm getting it. My definition of toned is (to an extent):
View attachment 2695

I know that this takes a lot of dedication and lots and lots of changes, but I will eventually get there - eventually. Anyhow, so what you're telling me is that in order for me to get my "toned" look, I need to decrease my calorie intake and eat "clean" to shed fat and do resistence training to maintain what I have underneath. Is that right?

What does role does cardio play in this or doesn't it? I've been a runner for about 5 years, 2 marathons, a dozen 5Ks, 10 miles recently. I've noticed that when I ran the marathons I never saw my muscles and I always kept my calories under maintenace, which for me is about 2000/day. (I did a RMR test and a MAP test and it came out that my RMR is about 1500/day and my anaerobic threshold is 166. So with my RMR I add about 500 (fairly active) to that number and it gives me 2000/day for maintenance - at least that's what the person who did the testing told me.) How come I didn't see muscles while I was training for my marathons, but my running partner did? We did the same things, worked out together, same weights, reps, etc. but I didn't see the results she did. It's frustrating...

Five reps of 5 with enough intensity. I have to change my mind set that this is the ideal. It's hard, since I've been with 2 trainers that have me doing workouts with 20 reps x 3. I will try this and see where it leads me.

Can you be my online trainer?

First and foremost, most trainers are boobs. Secondly, you are getting good info here for free. Don't pay a trainer.

20 reps is stupid. Really. I would ask him/her how those parameters related to your current goals.

Extremely important tip: Don't ever compare your results to that of another. We are so unique in terms of physiology, genetics, etc that results cannot be compared.

The lady that you show in that picture, she went through many cycles of caloric surplus dieting to increase muscle mass and caloric deficit dieting to shed fat. It is that simple. Generally speaking, you can't do both simultaneously.

Based on where you are today, you decide if gaining weight would be OK with you. Or, you focus on getting some of the excess fat off first.

Another important note.... that level of leanness, of the woman in that pic, is not sustainable for 99% of people, including her most likely, year round. She builds her nutrition and training regiment around one single day.... so that she peaks in physical appearance for that one day.

Put it this way, even if you were trying to add lean body mass through a caloric surplus diet... I would still have the core of your resistance training program based upon compound exercises in the lower rep ranges.

Do I look muscular? Lean?

I based almost all of my training around heavy lifting. And there are reasons for it.

Yes, I know. I told you not to compare yourself to others. There are some core, fundamental variables that extend to everyone.

 

[mnexercisegirl]

First and foremost, most trainers are boobs. Secondly, you are getting good info here for free. Don't pay a trainer.

Based on where you are today, you decide if gaining weight would be OK with you. Or, you focus on getting some of the excess fat off first.

I want to focus on shedding the fat first. So I'm going to give you a regimen that I think may work, using the advice you give me. Let me know how to tweak it better.

Caloric Intake: 1800 (I figure with the cardio a 300 calorie deficit from my maintenance is fair).
Mondays: Rest or Cardio (running - SS, if I don't get my cycling class in on sunday)
Tuesday: Resistance training (Squats, 1 arm rows, Lunges, Incline bench press, deadlift, shoulder press, bicep curls) Any other exercises? full body 5 reps x 5.
Wednesdays: Cardio (running - SS)
Thursdays: Same as Tuesdays
Friday: Cardio (running - SS)
Saturday: Cycling class (this class usually does intervals and gets my HR up and down)
Sunday: Same as Saturday.

So bring on the comments....

 

[Steve]

I want to focus on shedding the fat first. So I'm going to give you a regimen that I think may work, using the advice you give me. Let me know how to tweak it better.

Caloric Intake: 1800 (I figure with the cardio a 300 calorie deficit from my maintenance is fair).
Mondays: Rest or Cardio (running - SS, if I don't get my cycling class in on sunday)
Tuesday: Resistance training (Squats, 1 arm rows, Lunges, Incline bench press, deadlift, shoulder press, bicep curls) Any other exercises? full body 5 reps x 5.
Wednesdays: Cardio (running - SS)
Thursdays: Same as Tuesdays
Friday: Cardio (running - SS)
Saturday: Cycling class (this class usually does intervals and gets my HR up and down)
Sunday: Same as Saturday.

So bring on the comments....

You are definitely on the right track.

First, your caloric intake is good. Remember, you are not signing a contract. The idea is to start with a very small deficit and adapt from there based on results.

In terms of the resistance training routine, I would like to see something like this:

Day 1: Full Squats 5x5, Bench Press 5x5, Barbell Row 5x5, Stiff Leg Deadlifts 3x5

Day 2: Full squats 5x5, Incline Bench Press 5x5, Pull-ups or Pulldowns 5x5, Deadlifts 3x5

So very basic. Seems too simple to some, I am sure..... probably to some of the pros here too, it seems to simple.... but trust me or not.... it is enough to ward of catabolism, which is resistance training's only function while in an energy deficit.

I would cycle your intensity a bit too. Since you are deprived of energy, managing fatigue becomes all that more important. So let's say something like this:

Assuming you have not done some of these exercises ever before:

Week 1: 50% of your 1 rep max in each exercise
Week 2: 60%
Week 3: 70%
Week 4: 80%
Week 5: 90%

Week 5 will be the first week that you are REALLY pushing yourself. You might feel it in week 4 too. Once you start really pushing yourself, you should notice some strength gains, even while in a caloric deficit. Reason being neural adaption to this type of lifting. In laymans, your body learns how to be strong through more efficient motor unit activation and coding.

When the strength gains halt, it is time for a layoff. I suggest a week off from the gym, at most 2. If anything, perform some active recovery type stuff, flexibility work, etc.

I would also like to add a few things. You should be tracking your progress. Easiest is weight of course, but that does not tell us too much. You could start tracking your body fat percentage using calipers. I could send you a link to a worthy, affordable set if you would like. I would definitely suggest tracking measurements every 2 weeks. At the minimum, take measurements of your arms, waist, stomach, hips, thighs, and chest. You need to know which direction you are heading in. Before I get really cruising along personally with any routine, it is nothing for me to modify my approach every 3 weeks for a month or two until I am seeing the desired results.

Regarding cardio, you really don't need to be doing as much as you are. Sure, it is heart healthy in terms of cardiovascular fitness. However, if you have your nutrition dialed in properly, you should see results with one or two sessions of HIIT each week. MAYBE, one steady state session, and that is a big maybe.

Too much running can work inversely in terms of muscle maintenance.

If you had more weight to lose, I would say SS cardio may be more of a necessity, but you don't.

And I forget, have we talked about nutrition in the past? I am too lazy to look back. That is obviously the most important factor here, although we are focusing mostly on your training.

 

[Steve]

I should also add, for anyone who may be reading this....

The more experience I gain, the more I realize that "less is more and more is less" in terms of resistance training and it's impact on muscle maintenance while dieting.

Muscle building is a very intensive process, energetically speaking. Your body is very aware of this. Remember, we are speaking of energy deficient times here. If you are not eating enough to sustain what you already have, your body is NOT going to make the situation worse by adding more of the most energy expensive tissue.

You want to do JUST enough to ward off the biochemicals signals related to atrophy, but not so much that you are sending the biochemical signals for hypertrophy.

Reason being, to trigger hypertrophy, you need more "overload" to the muscle than required for avoiding hypertrophy.

If you train for hypertrophy (high volume, more reps), you are increasing the energy demand on the entire system. The energy is not there because you are dieting. This nets out to be a sub-optimal position for muscle retention.

 

[mnexercisegirl]

You are definitely on the right track.
First, your caloric intake is good.

Yeah me!

Day 1: Full Squats 5x5, Bench Press 5x5, Barbell Row 5x5, Stiff Leg Deadlifts 3x5
Day 2: Full squats 5x5, Incline Bench Press 5x5, Pull-ups or Pulldowns 5x5, Deadlifts 3x5
So very basic. Seems too simple to some, I am sure..... probably to some of the pros here too, it seems to simple.... but trust me or not.... it is enough to ward of catabolism, which is resistance training's only function while in an energy deficit.
I would cycle your intensity a bit too. Since you are deprived of energy, managing fatigue becomes all that more important. So let's say something like this:
Assuming you have not done some of these exercises ever before:
Week 1: 50% of your 1 rep max in each exercise
Week 2: 60%
Week 3: 70%
Week 4: 80%
Week 5: 90%

How do I find my 1 rep max? I've been doing these exercises but have been lifting with weights I can do for 12 reps x3. After my last rep on the 3rd set, it's hard, especially with squats. Full squat? Do I go all the way down or just til I look like I'm sitting in a chair? I like simple. Me and Simple are like this *crosses fingers*

I would also like to add a few things. You should be tracking your progress. Easiest is weight of course, but that does not tell us too much. You could start tracking your body fat percentage using calipers. I could send you a link to a worthy, affordable set if you would like.

Yes, please send the link for the calipers.

Regarding cardio, you really don't need to be doing as much as you are. Sure, it is heart healthy in terms of cardiovascular fitness. However, if you have your nutrition dialed in properly, you should see results with one or two sessions of HIIT each week. MAYBE, one steady state session, and that is a big maybe.

I really enjoy my cardio, it's the only time I have for myself and sadly I love the fact that I'm burning instant calories. It's my own self gratification and the fact that my tops are full of sweat. Plus the 2 cycling classes I take are my HIIT. My HR gets past my anaerobic threshold 2-3 times during this class AND the whole calorie burning thing too. So I'd like to keep as much of the cardio as I can.

And I forget, have we talked about nutrition in the past? I am too lazy to look back. That is obviously the most important factor here, although we are focusing mostly on your training.

The last time we talked about my nutrition was me saying I didn't want to open a can of worms. I've been putting my meals on Fitday and I've noticed that I've been eating about 1500/day and my fat intake is very sad - very sad. This is one area that I need to work on. I know what I need to work on nutritionally, but I have to find the courage to post my food intake, because I'm so ashamed...

This has been really helpful and so appreciated! I will probably start this routine next week because I'm pretty anal about trying to start something mid week.

After my break, after the 5 weeks, Do I start again at week 1? Or do I find my 1 rep max again and start the cyle?

 

[Steve]

For those of you who may care about my progress, I am going to start a photo album. I usually hate pictures of myself, but whenever I take progres pictures, which I do every month or so, and find a few that I like, I will add to the album.

The link will remain in my signature at the bottom, hope it works.

 

[mnexercisegirl]

Pending on how this conversation plays out, I might copy and paste in one of the other forums as a reference, since I find myself discussing this time and time again.... not that I mind it. But figured it might help someone.

Just watned to say "so cool". I'm gonna be a "steve reference"

 

[maleficent]

For those of you who may care about my progress, I am going to start a photo album.

YAY

I usually hate pictures of myself

that's a shame cuz you're a total babe...

The link will remain in my signature at the bottom, hope it works.

it did - and thanks

 

[Steve]

How do I find my 1 rep max?

Take a week or two to figure it out by experimenting in the gym. I know my weights well enough, personally, that I can guess close enough. You may be able to do the same.

Full squat? Do I go all the way down or just til I look like I'm sitting in a chair? I like simple. Me and Simple are like this *crosses fingers*

All the way down, assuming you don't have any pre-existing biomechanical issues with your knees. You want your hips to get below your knees. Don't short change the range of motion by only going to parallel. This can add more stress to your knees anyhow. Maybe I will write up a description of the proper way to squat later, pending on my time.

Yes, please send the link for the calipers.

I like these.

I really enjoy my cardio, it's the only time I have for myself and sadly I love the fact that I'm burning instant calories. It's my own self gratification and the fact that my tops are full of sweat. Plus the 2 cycling classes I take are my HIIT. My HR gets past my anaerobic threshold 2-3 times during this class AND the whole calorie burning thing too. So I'd like to keep as much of the cardio as I can.

Who cares about instant calorie burn? Exercise, especially aerobic, is ineffecient at burnin calories in the first place. Besides, it's the net energy balance at the end of the day, week, or year. Not at the end of the hour. And sweat means very little in terms of progress. It just means you need to rehydrate yourself.

How long do your cycling classes last? True HIIT lasts about 12-15 minutes.

Bottom line: If you want to keep the cardio, fine. If you were my client, I wouldn't recommend it for the primary goals at hand..... but so be it. It won't kill you.

The last time we talked about my nutrition was me saying I didn't want to open a can of worms. I've been putting my meals on Fitday and I've noticed that I've been eating about 1500/day and my fat intake is very sad - very sad. This is one area that I need to work on. I know what I need to work on nutritionally, but I have to find the courage to post my food intake, because I'm so ashamed...

Ashamed of what? Don't be ridiculous!

If you are going to be adding all this cardio into the mix, BE SURE you get more than the 1500 cals!

What do you mean your fat intake is sad? Dietary fat doesn't make you fat, you know this right?

Look, I can't stress how important nutrition is to successful goal completion. We have spent so much time on program design and exercise, and that TRULY takes a back seat to your nutrition. If your nutrition is not in line, everything we have discussed so far means ABSOLUTELY nothing. I mean it.

If you don't want to speak about your nutrition in public, feel free to PM me.

After my break, after the 5 weeks, Do I start again at week 1? Or do I find my 1 rep max again and start the cyle?

Actually, week 5 is where you really start pushing yourself. You should continue pushing yourself until you are unable to add more weight to the bar or unable to add more reps to the set. Does this make sense?

Let's say for the squat, you do 5 sets of 5 during week 5. Next week, at 5-10 lbs to the bar and try again. If during week 6, on the 5th set of squats, you could only complete 3 reps, fine. Next time your perform the squat, if you are unable to get 4 reps on that last set, you know that your strength is peaking and fatigue has accumulated, and it is time to rest.

Once you strength peaks, and you rest, when you come back, you don't have to start at 50%. Rather start at maybe 70% and work your way back up. If things are layed out properly, you should push past your old personal bests.

Hopefully it is obvious to you that you need to keep a training log of each rep, set, and exercise.

Lastly, I don't really believe in a "program" that one should follow. It doesn't work like that. Over time, you learn the basic principles and science behind fitness and fatigue. You learn how to manage both of them around your personal needs, goals, and genes.

Following a set program is pointless. We are all so unique that it is better to understand the theory and learn how to apply it to yourself.

Make sense? As for the theory and science behind it, remember, let me know when and if you want some SERIOUS reading regarding the subject at hand.

 

[Steve]

YAY



that's a shame cuz you're a total babe...



it did - and thanks

At least someone around here cares. Thanks Mal!

 

[Steve]

Wow, someone gave me some rep, but they called me a snot. I don't like that the reps are anonymous.

 

[maleficent]

Wow, someone gave me some rep, but they called me a snot. I don't like that the reps are anonymous.

Don't worry your pretty head about it - i checked -- that person thought everyone who didn't agree with them was a snot and haven't been here for a while...

 

[Steve]

Don't worry your pretty head about it - i checked -- that person thought everyone who didn't agree with them was a snot and haven't been here for a while...

On other forums it is not anonymous. I wonder if I talk to AllCndianBoy or whatever his name is, if he could change it.....hmmm.

 

[maleficent]

I'll add it to the list of rep enhancements I've asked for but he prolly likes you b etter than m e so maybe he'll do it more if yu ask him

 

[Steve]

Haha, I don't think he knows me. I only spoke with him once, and that was when I asked him to change my screen name.