Journey, Not A Destination
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
MoonGoddess
New member
So I have officially declared today a day of celebration... of how far we have come. The rules are you can't beat yourself up over anything (even in your own head) & you have to have fun. Maybe crank up the best pep song & shake your booty anyway you wanna... oh & be sure to do whatever you want when you want!
yah with me?
absolutely you can join in the fun! Hope whatever you end up doing makes you happy... as for the shaking booties... I was having a blast being goofy in the office, til a co-worker came in...oops....oh well. More dance party later!
yah with me?
absolutely you can join in the fun! Hope whatever you end up doing makes you happy... as for the shaking booties... I was having a blast being goofy in the office, til a co-worker came in...oops....oh well. More dance party later!
Britta Bear
New member
Morning Steve
mnexercisegirl
New member
Zig Zag Diet
I read your post on the Abrosia threat and you mentioned the zig zag diet, so I looked it up to see what that was all about and wanted to know your thoughts on the 5 rules, the 4th one especially:
I've been following 3 of the 5 (#3 I will probably start follwing also) but #4 is a little iffy. If you're reading cym's diary, she does the 1500x3 days and maintenance for 1 day. I've just been trying to keep my calories at 1800 and hoping that this isn't going to get me to plateau in a month. Your thoughts?
I read your post on the Abrosia threat and you mentioned the zig zag diet, so I looked it up to see what that was all about and wanted to know your thoughts on the 5 rules, the 4th one especially:
I've been following 3 of the 5 (#3 I will probably start follwing also) but #4 is a little iffy. If you're reading cym's diary, she does the 1500x3 days and maintenance for 1 day. I've just been trying to keep my calories at 1800 and hoping that this isn't going to get me to plateau in a month. Your thoughts?
Happychubette
Banned
steve
Good morning Steve.
Good morning Steve.
Spraypainsos
New member
I'm interested as well. Either way, I probably wont change anything. It's working well enough as I try my best to abide by the other 4 rules (I've never read those before, but I've sort of learned them through experience. They are very good bits of advice IMO).
Zig zag dieting is used by some as a way to add to adherence to a meal plan. If you get SOME high cal days, people tend to adhere better. As I said in my post regarding the starvation mode, which I am going to copy and paste in this reply, once you get down toward "leaner" levels, zig zags and refeeds become ways of "faking out" your body to avoid starvation mode. For those that have a lot of weight to lose, say, more than 40-50 lbs, I would not concern myself with this. For those with less to lose, I would try a straight deficit first. If that does not work, some form of calorie manipulation may be called for.
As for rule number one, that is not true. You don't HAVE to eat 5+ meals per day. Total calories are what matter. Technically, you could eat one giant meal, and as long as you were under your maintenance caloric intake, you would lose weight. The food would just sit in your digestive system longer. This may not be optimal for nutrient uptake and all that good stuff, but you get my point.
Rule 2 is a common recommendation. However, I don't like blanket statements like this. Macronutrient consumption is very dependent on goals and individuals. I've had more protein than carbs and fats before. I have had more carbs than proteins and fats before. And I have had more fats than carbs. Again, it varies.
What I said about rule one pretty much debunks Rule 3. Total calories is what matters.
As for rule 5, sure, vitamins and minerals are great. However, eat lots of veggies and fruit too. That will help a bunch.
For those of you who have not read this post I made in another thread concerning the starvation response mechanism, I suggest you do so:
I would not compare yourself to an extreme such as an anorexic. What is the point when your journey is geared toward being healthy as well as thin, while an anorexics is geared toward being thin and beyond ill. Bodies adapt and change as you force it too. Hence, cut calories, you lose weight. However, there is a lot of other things going on behind the scenes that you are not familiar with, most likely. Same goes for anorexia. The body adapts.
The starvation response is a very real phenomenon. Many people think it works like a switch, turning on and off at will.... but it is a very scientific and deep subject.
Most of it has to do with your endocrine system, i.e. hormones.
One of the major drivers of the starvation response mechanism is a hormone called leptin. This hormone is released by your fat cells telling your body if you are starving and if you have adequate storage of energy (fat).
I always say that people with a large excess of fat can handle larger caloric deficits. There is a reason for this. Most professionals will spout off about how large deficits are not good for anyone because you will trigger starvation response.
Well here is my take on it:
The only reason I am NOT a fan of huge deficits for very big people is simple. It is not a healthy way of eating that leads to long term results. Losing a lot of weight takes time and consistent adherence. If you starve someone by cutting their calories in half, from what they are used to eating.... chances are, this individual is going to hate it. Chances are, this individual is going to treat this as a diet. A diet being a temporary way of eating that leads to temporary results. Who wants that? Chances are, this person is going to dislike it so much that they fall off the wagon before ever realizing their goals. Sure, they may try again a few times. Heck, they may even keep trying with the same huge calorie cuts for the rest of their lives. But based on empirical evidence, most won't last long enough at any one try to maintain any lasting results.
So in a way, most of the trainers spouting off about how easily the starvation response is triggered are actually doing some good. But not because they are helping people avoid starvation. Rather, they are helping to promote long term adherence and good lifestyle habits. And this is what matters.
This said though, when you have a lot of excess fat, the starvation response mechanism is not so easily triggered. When you have plenty of fat, you have plenty of leptin, and this tells your body that you are in no danger of starving. As fat is lost, leptin goes down, and vice versa.
There are a lot of people on here who have a lot of weight to lose, but seem to plateau. 9/10 times, as much as I hate to sound rude, this occurs due to poor adherence. Every now and again, I have seen someone with plenty of fat, eating perfectly calorically, and still unable to lose weight. However, this is few and far between. In most cases, they eat great most of the time. But they have lapses where they binge a little here and there, or they have lapses in their exercise regimen, and these things add up to create long term energy maintenance, meaning no weight loss or gain. You have to think about this on a larger continuum, not just by the day. Sure, you were in a calorie deficit today. Good for you. But what were you for the month? What were you for the past 6 months? Hell, what were you for the year? This is what matters, and this IMO, based on empirical evidence, is why MOST big people plateau. Not because they are in starvation mode.
So think of leptin as the mechanism that alerts your body that starvation is a possibility in the near future. It will changes some of the physiological processes of your body systems that regulate metabolism.
One of the responses, and this is a kicker, is that as leptin levels fall with fat levels, appetite tends to go up. It is your bodies natural way of saying, hey dumb-dumb... eat some food so you don't starve. Of course, you are not starving in reality, but wind the hands of time back a couple of million of years ago and you damn well better believe that starving to death was a possibility. Our bodies evolved to fend off starvation for as long as possible, and these evolutionary changes we still carry today.
As you all get skinnier, and for those of you who are starting out with not all that much weight to lose, you don't have a lot of room to wiggle in terms of leptin levels and its response. This means you have to find more ways to trick your body into thinking you are not starving. I think "refeeds" has been mentioned on here before. Or zig-zag dieting? These techniques were born out of the need to trick your body into letting you lose more weight when you don't have all that much to lose in the first place.
Again, these are not things you really have to worry about when you have a lot of weight to lose though.
I think this is an interesting topic and I would love for some "pros" to kick in their thoughts on the subject of leptin, starvation, and obesity.
ChilledOne
New member
Hi there,
Wondering if I might ask for a little advice.
Bit of background first,
I'm currently around a year into my weight loss, and have lost 80lb with another 30lb approx too go.
I spent the first few months just getting the eating right and lost around 30lb, then I purchased a exercise bike and a barbell/dumbbell just too start doing some weights.
I currently do 30min 5 night a week on the bike, one night it will be 30min broken down into 30sec low resistance, 60sec medium, 90sec high with 5 min warm up and down.
The next night it's 30min HIIT, with 30sec max on a high resistance and then 60sec recovery on low resistance.
Weights I do around 45min of simply things I've picked up on bodybuilding.com, with the recommended 3x8reps around 3 times a week, with a min 48hr rest.
With my diet somewhat 'perfected' I'm loosing a average 2lb a week, which is perfect.
Now here's my question.
I have a couple of mates, one who's doing the whole muscle gain with the diet etc, the other who just does weights for general fun of it with no real proper muscle gain aimed for.
I have decided too join the gym with them at the end of the month as they have far better workouts that they have used over a period of a year now.
Is it advisable seeing as I'm going too be eating as I am now ( I don't count calories, I just check the fat content on anything new I might eat, and it's works well for me over the last year, so I see no need in starting counting) too be doing the same lifts as them, but in the 3x8reps I have been doing, or should I be looking at having my own routine? Too be honest while I'm still 5-6months off my goal weight, I'm not sure I fancy going alone yet, and that's what's swaying me in just doing what they do.
Then I'm hoping to hop back in the pool, as I'm a very strong swimmer so a hour in the pool will be a hell of a work out for my body. The problem with this is it will be at 6.30am in the morning, and that means I won't be getting breakfast in before swimming but straight afterwards. What can I eat/drink that would be good for my body until I can eat at around 8am?
Then finally, is there anything like Protein drinks etc, that I might be able to use before a workout that might help with muscle growth, or is it simply a lost cause due too my diet? Since I started the weights around 5 months ago I have become a lot stronger in the weights I can lift, and maybe due too loosing fat in my arms/legs/shoulder and back that my muscles now look a lot bigger, maybe the fact my diet contains a lot of chicken, beans, tuna etc that might help too?
Thanks for any advise, I'm now on a massive high due to the large weight loss and I'm hoping starting a proper gym routine will yield some good results over the summer, as I'm hoping too start eating for muscle growth in six months, so that I have around 8-9months of muscle building before I set off on my travels. Oh and the best thing about muscles and being overweight for years? My legs muscles are huge lol, the two lads have a good laugh at how small their legs look compared too mine!
Edit: Sorry for it turning into such a long post.
Wondering if I might ask for a little advice.
Bit of background first,
I'm currently around a year into my weight loss, and have lost 80lb with another 30lb approx too go.
I spent the first few months just getting the eating right and lost around 30lb, then I purchased a exercise bike and a barbell/dumbbell just too start doing some weights.
I currently do 30min 5 night a week on the bike, one night it will be 30min broken down into 30sec low resistance, 60sec medium, 90sec high with 5 min warm up and down.
The next night it's 30min HIIT, with 30sec max on a high resistance and then 60sec recovery on low resistance.
Weights I do around 45min of simply things I've picked up on bodybuilding.com, with the recommended 3x8reps around 3 times a week, with a min 48hr rest.
With my diet somewhat 'perfected' I'm loosing a average 2lb a week, which is perfect.
Now here's my question.
I have a couple of mates, one who's doing the whole muscle gain with the diet etc, the other who just does weights for general fun of it with no real proper muscle gain aimed for.
I have decided too join the gym with them at the end of the month as they have far better workouts that they have used over a period of a year now.
Is it advisable seeing as I'm going too be eating as I am now ( I don't count calories, I just check the fat content on anything new I might eat, and it's works well for me over the last year, so I see no need in starting counting) too be doing the same lifts as them, but in the 3x8reps I have been doing, or should I be looking at having my own routine? Too be honest while I'm still 5-6months off my goal weight, I'm not sure I fancy going alone yet, and that's what's swaying me in just doing what they do.
Then I'm hoping to hop back in the pool, as I'm a very strong swimmer so a hour in the pool will be a hell of a work out for my body. The problem with this is it will be at 6.30am in the morning, and that means I won't be getting breakfast in before swimming but straight afterwards. What can I eat/drink that would be good for my body until I can eat at around 8am?
Then finally, is there anything like Protein drinks etc, that I might be able to use before a workout that might help with muscle growth, or is it simply a lost cause due too my diet? Since I started the weights around 5 months ago I have become a lot stronger in the weights I can lift, and maybe due too loosing fat in my arms/legs/shoulder and back that my muscles now look a lot bigger, maybe the fact my diet contains a lot of chicken, beans, tuna etc that might help too?
Thanks for any advise, I'm now on a massive high due to the large weight loss and I'm hoping starting a proper gym routine will yield some good results over the summer, as I'm hoping too start eating for muscle growth in six months, so that I have around 8-9months of muscle building before I set off on my travels. Oh and the best thing about muscles and being overweight for years? My legs muscles are huge lol, the two lads have a good laugh at how small their legs look compared too mine!
Edit: Sorry for it turning into such a long post.
Last edited:
daiseeangel
New member
hey there, steve!
sorry i didn't get to say good morning or good afternoon. computer is on the outs!
i hope things are going really well!
i actually have a quick question...
which is better for me? 40 minutes of running at a 4.5 speed, or running for a shorter amount of time (not sure how long i will last! ) at a 5.0 speed?
thanks!!
sorry i didn't get to say good morning or good afternoon. computer is on the outs!
i hope things are going really well!
i actually have a quick question...
which is better for me? 40 minutes of running at a 4.5 speed, or running for a shorter amount of time (not sure how long i will last!
) at a 5.0 speed?thanks!!
My goodness, where to begin with this one.
Something I should get out of the way immediately is this: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. While I don't agree with much of what you are doing.... who gives a flying hoot!!!!
Yes, I am educated when it comes to fitness and nutrition. That said, who am I to tell you to stop doing what you are doing and start doing something else?
This said, something that jumps out at me is this. You don't eat fat. Is this true? Or you try to avoid it?
Dietary fat does not make you fat. Let that sink in, because it is important. Why is it important? Not all fats are created equal. There are good fats. And they are REAL good for your health. They should not be avoided at all.
Energy balance is what dictates weight fluctuations. Really let this sink in too. Too much energy in vs. out, you will get said weight gain. Not enough energy in vs. out, you will get said weight loss. It really is that simple.
Next, what makes you "buddies" resistance training routines "good"? I doubt they are. I mean really, I lift in a few gyms, and I can honestly say that over 90% of the members I see work out train like they are retarded. (sorry for the offensive word, I actually have a mentally challenged niece and hate using it.... but the words stands as proper in this sentence.)
I wouldn't be using a majority of sets of 8 reps while you are in a weight loss mode. You are obviously deficient in energy or you would not be losing weight. During times of deficient energy, you should be training heavy. Heavy relative to your strength. The core, if not all of your program should be centered around 4-6 reps.
Next, protein shakes do not make you grow muscle. I highly doubt your added any appreciable amount of muscle either. It is probably your mind playing tricks on you, which I don't blame. When you start losing subcutaneous fat and your lean body mass starts to expose itself, you can very easily think that your muscles are growing. No matter what, it is a beautiful site, no?
In order to build muscle, you need to be in a caloric surplus first and foremost, which you obviously are not. This said, no amount of protein in the world, I don't care if you are drinking 8 shakes a day each coupled with a huge chicken breast..... if you are in a deficit, you are not going to add tissue. You can't make something out of nothing.
I doubt I answered all of your questions, but I was too lazy to go through and read your post again.... you are right, it was long, hahaha.
Sorry, and feel free to ask again or ask more. I just unloaded what I was thinking the first time I read through it.
Oh yea, and calorie counting is probably going to be something that you have to do eventually if you want to really fine tune your physique. When you have a lot of weight to lose, its pretty simple. Just eat less than the uber amount you've been eating to get you fat, and weight loss will occur. However, as you lose weight, metabolism slows due to less tissue, and body changes, it gets harder and harder to lose weight without knowing exactly how many cals are coming in.
Just a thought for future reference.
hey there, steve!
sorry i didn't get to say good morning or good afternoon. computer is on the outs!
i hope things are going really well!
i actually have a quick question...
which is better for me? 40 minutes of running at a 4.5 speed, or running for a shorter amount of time (not sure how long i will last!
thanks!!
Honestly, you are splitting hairs. Pick which one you like and go with it.
daiseeangel
New member
steve, thank you for your wise words!
i may try the 5.0 and see how long i can go... i just feel so good for accomplishing 40 minutes. hopefully i can accomplish at least close to that at 5.0!
thanks again, handsome!
i may try the 5.0 and see how long i can go... i just feel so good for accomplishing 40 minutes. hopefully i can accomplish at least close to that at 5.0!
thanks again, handsome!
mnexercisegirl
New member
Hey Steve
It's super late and I just got time to read your response. Useful information. I'll keep that in the back of my mind as I keep the current routine. If I do go into a plateau, you'll be hearing from me again.
It's super late and I just got time to read your response. Useful information. I'll keep that in the back of my mind as I keep the current routine. If I do go into a plateau, you'll be hearing from me again.
