Is it really not possible?

T

theGOOCH

2
In the short time I've been on here I have seen the opinion a lot that you can't gain or even maintain muscle mass while getting leaner.

Isn't it possible to not be in a calorie deficit overall, but more calories are going toward muscle hypertrophy, so bodyfat slowly decreases? I realize it's faster to bulk and then cut, but I'm not a bodybuilder and I don't want to do this cycle. The main reason I like to do cardio is for the benefit to my heart. I don't want to cut it out, or do the minimum if I want to gain muscle mass.

Isn't it also true that more muscle mass=higher metabolism, therefore a decrease in body fat?

For the past 6 months I've been hitting the cardio hard and still have been slowly getting stronger, my chest, arms, and legs have grown slightly while my abs have become a little more prominent. According to some this is impossible. What is the traditional wisdom on this?
 
You can easily gain muscle while losing fat. Your body will adapt to the stesses you put it through. I'm not sure what you are trying to do (goal?). If you are looking to gain muscle mass, then doing as much cardio as you are doing may be hurting that goal slightly. The body at that point will try and cut down to its leanest possible mass to make you more efficient at running/swimming etc... That is why people suggest bulking phases and cutting phases etc.. You cycle them on/off to be more efficient with your time pertaining to your goals.

The answer to your question once again is that it is absolutely possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. There are different training cycles to concentrate on if you favor one more than the other, and there are also training cycles to do both at the same time.

State your goals and people here would be glad to make some suggestions.
 
Saw your question on another thread.

I have a somewhat similar question elsewhere and would like to clarify your answer. I have the understanding that if you want to make quick, dramatic changes in gaining muscle mass and losing fat, you need to bulk and cut. I also believe you can make slower, more modest improvements in both areas at the same time.

I hope this is the case. I have no desire to weigh 270 at 6% and compete. I weigh 210 with maybe 10-12% body fat(at 6'1) and would like to be able to keep my diet and amount of cardio relatively static and slowly continue to gain muscle while losing fat...just for general fitness and health. This is possible right?
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If you want to keep your cardio, you can still gain lean muscle mass. Do you have a decent resistance training workout to go with your cardio? What exactly are you doing now cardio and weightlifting wise?
 
theGOOCH said:
In the short time I've been on here I have seen the opinion a lot that you can't gain or even maintain muscle mass while getting leaner.

Isn't it possible to not be in a calorie deficit overall, but more calories are going toward muscle hypertrophy, so bodyfat slowly decreases? I realize it's faster to bulk and then cut, but I'm not a bodybuilder and I don't want to do this cycle. The main reason I like to do cardio is for the benefit to my heart. I don't want to cut it out, or do the minimum if I want to gain muscle mass.

Isn't it also true that more muscle mass=higher metabolism, therefore a decrease in body fat?

For the past 6 months I've been hitting the cardio hard and still have been slowly getting stronger, my chest, arms, and legs have grown slightly while my abs have become a little more prominent. According to some this is impossible. What is the traditional wisdom on this?
Click to expand...

What do you mean by " hitting the cardio hard " - what frequency, duration and intensity of cardio do you do in a week ?
 
I lift 4 days a week...pretty intense. I've been a weightlifter more than half my life. I was always one of those guys you see at the gym who is quite muscular, but has a hint of a belly.

There is heart disease in my family so I decided to start doing some cardio and eat better...plus I wanted to have a flatter, defined stomach. I still eat big because I don't want to lose muscle (hopefully even gain even if it's very gradual and can live with losing the fat slowly.)

I've gone from 227 to 210in about 6 months and I'm kinda "on the cusp" of a 6 pack. In other words it's there, but just not super prominent. My lifting performance hasn't suffered and even slightly increased. My arms are only about 1/8 inch smaller than they have ever been...I think it's just a layer of fat I lost on them. My legs have even gotten a little bigger from my bike and elliptical.

...oh yeah, I run on the elliptical for an hour at least 5 days a week (sometimes 7 If I'm feeling like a fanatic). I'm 32 and I keep my HR between 134-140. I cycle maybe once or twice a week if the weather is good. I usually cycle 10 miles, but I've done 50.

So basically I'm a reasonably big guy with an athletic build already. I'm not trying to bulk up and look like the Incredible Hulk or anything. I want to be in tip top heart health and be around a long time for my kids while still not offending my vanity as a weightlifter...I don't want to get "skinny", but lean and still muscular

I should also add that I've been holding at around 210 for several weeks now. I do huge amounts of cardio, but I'm also a huge eater ( such a big eater my weight can be between 208-214 depending on what time of day I weigh myself and what's in my system) So if I can counteract the hampering effects of the cardio with more calories I'm capable of that. I just hate to cut the cardio down. I used to have borderline high blood pressure and now it's excellent.
 
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I've gone from 227 to 210in about 6 months
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It's good that you show results in the direction you want to go, but that time frame suggests to me that you need to delve more deeply into the particulars of your diet. Possibly a small increase in protein intake and drop some of the simple carbs. Stay away from sugars and junk foods. The 6 pack is the last thing to show, and it's hard because you have to really have your diet in check. You usually will be around 10% BF for a nice 6 pack.

If you don't keep a diet log, now would be a good time to start. Look at your trends over the week and see where you can make adjustments. Maybe you can schedule your carb intake better.

You can also wear a HR monitor while you workout > keep your HR in the zone the whole time until you are done, then cool down. This is a great fat burner.
 
Johnny said:
It's good that you show results in the direction you want to go, but that time frame suggests to me that you need to delve more deeply into the particulars of your diet. Possibly a small increase in protein intake and drop some of the simple carbs. Stay away from sugars and junk foods. The 6 pack is the last thing to show, and it's hard because you have to really have your diet in check. You usually will be around 10% BF for a nice 6 pack.

If you don't keep a diet log, now would be a good time to start. Look at your trends over the week and see where you can make adjustments. Maybe you can schedule your carb intake better.

You can also wear a HR monitor while you workout > keep your HR in the zone the whole time until you are done, then cool down. This is a great fat burner.
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Thanks. I have just recently made a lot of changes to my diet (literally a couple days ago-that's what spurred to come to this forum). I've long been a "eat nearly whatever you want and work out a lot and look pretty good, but not great" kind of guy:D

I've seriously changed my carb intake-no sweets whatsoever (not counting fruit-apples, pears, bananas) And I've thrown out the white rice, potatoes, white flour for whole grains, beans, sweet potatoes. I'm even trying to improve my kids' diets...my son is known as "candyman".

I stick with lean meats and I even gave up my nightly beer:( Damn Belgians, why does your beer have to be so delicious?

I check my HR manually as I find my hand grips useless, maybe a chest strap would work better

I guess I'll see how these changes pan out and see if I need to make any changes in volume of food. I really don't want to get under 200 lbs though (that vanity again)


...I almost forgot...Thank you for your help!
 
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JOHNNY
you said"You can easily gain muscle while losing fat."
i think nearly every expert would dissagree with you.
"unless your a total newbie to lifting."
if you want to gain muscle then you must eat in a surplus if you are in a surplus then you will find it very difficult to lose fat.
if you are on a defecit then all the nutrients you need are being used so there is nothing left to build muscle with.
IMO you either do one or the other.
 
You said,

" I should also add that I've been holding at around 210 for several weeks now "​

How tall are you ?

Also, do you have any ' ballpark ' idea how many calories you take in each day ?

Also, where do you source the bulk of your protein grams a day from ?
 
buzz said:
JOHNNY
you said"You can easily gain muscle while losing fat."
i think nearly every expert would dissagree with you.
"unless your a total newbie to lifting."
if you want to gain muscle then you must eat in a surplus if you are in a surplus then you will find it very difficult to lose fat.
if you are on a defecit then all the nutrients you need are being used so there is nothing left to build muscle with.
IMO you either do one or the other.
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If it's as simple as you state it, why does it work for newbies? The laws of physics should be the same for everyone.

I understand if you are a bodybuilder, you have to bulk and cut to get maximum results, but I know just regular guys who are into fitness who don't go through cycles who appear to very gradually get bigger and leaner
 
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Wrangell said:
You said,

" I should also add that I've been holding at around 210 for several weeks now "​

How tall are you ?

Also, do you have any ' ballpark ' idea how many calories you take in each day ?

Also, where do you source the bulk of your protein grams a day from ?
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I'm 6'1 I really don't know how many calories I take in especially since I just changed my diet.
I get the bulk of my protein from lean cuts of beef and chicken (I hate fish). I also get smaller amounts from beans and other plant sources.

I don't take any "bodybuilding supplements" just a few general health supplements. (fish oil, glucosamine & condroitin, saw palmetto, mutlivitamin)


...oh, and I just got an accumeasure caliper and did the 9 point bodyfat test someone posted here. I'm about 13%
 
My experience is limited compared to many in here, but I've been weight lifting a while, and the following has been true in my case.

> To gain any serious muscle mass increase you must increase calorie and protein intake considerably.

> During this period you can expect a bf% increase also.


However

> If you are slightly overweight when you start, you can gain a very small amount of lean muscle mass when you first start your cutting regimen, in my case I was 214lbs and 6'3.

> I aim to lose 10lbs and gain maybe 3lbs of Muscle.

It is possible to gain some muscle mass, in your case though it sounds like you're already pretty muscley, it might just be a case of cutting back calories, increasing protein, maintaining the weight lifting and hitting the cardio -the remaining fat should come off around your middle in no time -about 2000 calories a day?
 
I swear I replied to the exact post yesterday...

Anyhow, YES you can stay at a maintenance calorie intake and slowly burn fat, and maybe even add a little muscle.

But, its gonna be so goddamn slow to happen you'll likely get frustrated and fall off the wagon or decide to do a traditional cut or bulk instead.

and i mean SLOW. Might gain a few pounds of muscle a year, instead of per month.
 
malkore said:
I swear I replied to the exact post yesterday...

Anyhow, YES you can stay at a maintenance calorie intake and slowly burn fat, and maybe even add a little muscle.

But, its gonna be so goddamn slow to happen you'll likely get frustrated and fall off the wagon or decide to do a traditional cut or bulk instead.

and i mean SLOW. Might gain a few pounds of muscle a year, instead of per month.
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That's what I thought and I'm fine with gaining muscle slowly. I don't need/want to make huge gains...I have good muscle mass now. I want to lose about 3% bodyfat while at least not losing muscle, but it would be nice to gain...even extremely slowly. I'm at the point in my life where I don't care about getting as huge as possible, but I don't want to lose what I have or look like a skinny endurance athlete either. I'm 32 and I've been lifting since I was 12 so I think I'm unlikely to fall off the wagon at this point
 
I think some people can do this a lot more efficiently than others. Put it this way. Professional sportsmen do not bulk and cut for muscle. They gain while still doing cardio. Of course you can do it. It just isn't practical for body building, which a lot of people seem to forget.
 
Woodt said:
I think some people can do this a lot more efficiently than others. Put it this way. Professional sportsmen do not bulk and cut for muscle. They gain while still doing cardio. Of course you can do it. It just isn't practical for body building, which a lot of people seem to forget.
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Cool. Yeah, I don't have a bodybuilder's physique. At my height and frame (long arms) I'd have to weigh probably at least 260 to look that bulky.

I hope I don't regret this, but...here's my pic if that helps....

I checked my bodyfat, but don't know how skilled at it I was. Do you think the 13% I got is in the ballpark?
 
well, at maintence level fat loss is pretty slow too. Do a slow cut, you wont loose much muscle, i bet you wont notice any gone
 
Great responses all.

Malkore - I think this question was answered several times last time I check in to world fitness but it's a worth while question to answer.

Bottomline: It's very possible to gain lean muscle and cut at the same time. It's difficult and that's why most say it can't be done. You need to train hard and strictly monitor your nutrition.

Keep working you'll get there.

In health,
DM
 
you look pretty good to me.
 
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