Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?
- Thread starter Caiman
- Start date
mstewart
New member
I think this is a good idea. The piece I see missing is that there was no mention of where a person could find assistance for improving their health or losing weight. Many people are getting ripped off by all the gimmicks and quick fix programs that are advertised on the internet, TV, and magazines. Medicaid should provide a list of safe options for each person they deem unhealthy and reward them for choosing an option on the recommended list. Many doctors don't realize that there are a lot of reasons a person may be is struggling with their health. These reasons should also be taken in to consideration.
This is an interesting topic and good comments.
I assume most posters are US based... I'm in UK, yes the NHS and disability benefit (wellfare) pay out millions per year to obese people in the UK. We are the fattest country in Europe!! And probably the smallest!!
I agree that obesity is not a disease but a self inflicted over indulgence.
Also obese people , especially those that dont work (due to being overweight) and on benefits, should pay a fine or have a high reduction in benefits.
My taxes go towards their benefits!!! Why should I pay for them to have a lazy lifestyle and pay less taxes just because they are obese!!
Cheap and poor nutritional food is widely available. Healthy food is now more expensive than junkfood. So people are going to take easy option.
Restaurants serve larger than required portions, if they served a correct portion, less food would be wasted, people eat less, overall cost is less. This could lead to a saving in benefits and the cost to NHS.
_______
Mustang GT V8 500HP Roushcharged
(sent via Galaxy Tab...)
I assume most posters are US based... I'm in UK, yes the NHS and disability benefit (wellfare) pay out millions per year to obese people in the UK. We are the fattest country in Europe!! And probably the smallest!!
I agree that obesity is not a disease but a self inflicted over indulgence.
Also obese people , especially those that dont work (due to being overweight) and on benefits, should pay a fine or have a high reduction in benefits.
My taxes go towards their benefits!!! Why should I pay for them to have a lazy lifestyle and pay less taxes just because they are obese!!
Cheap and poor nutritional food is widely available. Healthy food is now more expensive than junkfood. So people are going to take easy option.
Restaurants serve larger than required portions, if they served a correct portion, less food would be wasted, people eat less, overall cost is less. This could lead to a saving in benefits and the cost to NHS.
_______
Mustang GT V8 500HP Roushcharged
(sent via Galaxy Tab...)
AnnaGail
New member
Obesity Is wide all over the USA! When I was growing up we didn't have a lot of restaurants to go out to and now they are side by side. We had regular healthy meals, not a lot of junk. No pizza and subs. It is much easier to grab a cake, candy bar or stop at a fast food restaurant then to cook a healthy meal, these days. That is why we have so many obese people. I have a niece that is around 500 pounds needs two chars to sit down. She eats mostly pizza and subs. She makes cakes and candy to sell.
I wish that I could some how help her to lose weight!!
:hugs2:
I wish that I could some how help her to lose weight!!
:hugs2:
Monster2
New member
I'm not sure if this is appropriate or not, but what about an intervention?
I LOVE BASIL
New member
Absolutely not.
First of all, how does the government intend to classify someone as 'fat'? It has long been acknowledged that BMI is redundant. "Dr. David Haslam, the clinical director of Britain’s National Obesity Forum, told the Daily Telegraph newspaper: “It is now widely accepted that the BMI is useless for assessing the healthy weight of individuals.†Despite extensive evidence proving the BMI lacks accuracy for calculating an individual’s body fat or healthy weight, the government defends it as the national standard due to the fact that it is “inexpensive and easy for clinicians and for the general public†(CDC, 2010). Thus, the financial interests of those who diagnose, define and profit from the definition of “health†in this country were prioritized over individuals’ accurate understandings of their own health."
While there is a correlation between obesity and poor health, I think it is important to think more deeply about this. I am not denying that, in many cases, being overweight is a causative or contributing factor to disease, but I invite you to consider that, in other cases, an alternative explanation may apply. For example, people who are overweight may be reluctant to go to see their doctors for fear of being 'fat shamed', and therefore, may be more likely to have disease not because of their weight but because of lack of medical care.
The idea of fining 'fat' people for not dieting concerns me in a number of ways.
- 'Fat shaming' and 'fat stigma' are rife in our society as is.
- Why punish somebody for their weight when it is to a significant extent determined by genetic and environmental factors that are outside of their control?
- I am personally acquainted with a number of people who, though overweight, eat very well and exercise on a regular basis. In addition, I know a number of people who, though of a 'normal' weight or underweight, eat a poor diet and do not exercise enough. Weight is not a valid reflection of one's eating habits and exercise.
- My understanding of human nature indicates that people respond more favourably to reward rather than punishment. It's dumb to punish a patient who won't comply with a weight loss regime. A doctor should explore the underlying reasons for their lack of compliance.
For example, do they not understand the need for the weight loss or the requirements of the weight loss regime? Do they lack the financial means or domestic skills to prepare balanced meals? Do they have unresolved emotional issues in which food is implicated?
If you respect the patient and listen to them, they will be more likely to follow through with your advice.
First of all, how does the government intend to classify someone as 'fat'? It has long been acknowledged that BMI is redundant. "Dr. David Haslam, the clinical director of Britain’s National Obesity Forum, told the Daily Telegraph newspaper: “It is now widely accepted that the BMI is useless for assessing the healthy weight of individuals.†Despite extensive evidence proving the BMI lacks accuracy for calculating an individual’s body fat or healthy weight, the government defends it as the national standard due to the fact that it is “inexpensive and easy for clinicians and for the general public†(CDC, 2010). Thus, the financial interests of those who diagnose, define and profit from the definition of “health†in this country were prioritized over individuals’ accurate understandings of their own health."
While there is a correlation between obesity and poor health, I think it is important to think more deeply about this. I am not denying that, in many cases, being overweight is a causative or contributing factor to disease, but I invite you to consider that, in other cases, an alternative explanation may apply. For example, people who are overweight may be reluctant to go to see their doctors for fear of being 'fat shamed', and therefore, may be more likely to have disease not because of their weight but because of lack of medical care.
The idea of fining 'fat' people for not dieting concerns me in a number of ways.
- 'Fat shaming' and 'fat stigma' are rife in our society as is.
- Why punish somebody for their weight when it is to a significant extent determined by genetic and environmental factors that are outside of their control?
- I am personally acquainted with a number of people who, though overweight, eat very well and exercise on a regular basis. In addition, I know a number of people who, though of a 'normal' weight or underweight, eat a poor diet and do not exercise enough. Weight is not a valid reflection of one's eating habits and exercise.
- My understanding of human nature indicates that people respond more favourably to reward rather than punishment. It's dumb to punish a patient who won't comply with a weight loss regime. A doctor should explore the underlying reasons for their lack of compliance.
For example, do they not understand the need for the weight loss or the requirements of the weight loss regime? Do they lack the financial means or domestic skills to prepare balanced meals? Do they have unresolved emotional issues in which food is implicated?
If you respect the patient and listen to them, they will be more likely to follow through with your advice.
ChefChiTown
New member
Originally Posted by I LOVE BASIL
Absolutely not.
First of all, how does the government intend to classify someone as 'fat'? It has long been acknowledged that BMI is redundant. "Dr. David Haslam, the clinical director of Britain’s National Obesity Forum, told the Daily Telegraph newspaper: “It is now widely accepted that the BMI is useless for assessing the healthy weight of individuals.†Despite extensive evidence proving the BMI lacks accuracy for calculating an individual’s body fat or healthy weight, the government defends it as the national standard due to the fact that it is “inexpensive and easy for clinicians and for the general public†(CDC, 2010). Thus, the financial interests of those who diagnose, define and profit from the definition of “health†in this country were prioritized over individuals’ accurate understandings of their own health."
While there is a correlation between obesity and poor health, I think it is important to think more deeply about this. I am not denying that, in many cases, being overweight is a causative or contributing factor to disease, but I invite you to consider that, in other cases, an alternative explanation may apply. For example, people who are overweight may be reluctant to go to see their doctors for fear of being 'fat shamed', and therefore, may be more likely to have disease not because of their weight but because of lack of medical care.
[/quote]
A person in that scenario wouldn't have contracted a disease because of lack of medical care; they still would've contracted the disease from their obesity. The fact that they were too ashamed or embarrassed to visit a doctor in fear of ridicule plays absolutely no part in the development their weight-related disease.
Absolutely not.
First of all, how does the government intend to classify someone as 'fat'? It has long been acknowledged that BMI is redundant. "Dr. David Haslam, the clinical director of Britain’s National Obesity Forum, told the Daily Telegraph newspaper: “It is now widely accepted that the BMI is useless for assessing the healthy weight of individuals.†Despite extensive evidence proving the BMI lacks accuracy for calculating an individual’s body fat or healthy weight, the government defends it as the national standard due to the fact that it is “inexpensive and easy for clinicians and for the general public†(CDC, 2010). Thus, the financial interests of those who diagnose, define and profit from the definition of “health†in this country were prioritized over individuals’ accurate understandings of their own health."
While there is a correlation between obesity and poor health, I think it is important to think more deeply about this. I am not denying that, in many cases, being overweight is a causative or contributing factor to disease, but I invite you to consider that, in other cases, an alternative explanation may apply. For example, people who are overweight may be reluctant to go to see their doctors for fear of being 'fat shamed', and therefore, may be more likely to have disease not because of their weight but because of lack of medical care.
[/quote]
A person in that scenario wouldn't have contracted a disease because of lack of medical care; they still would've contracted the disease from their obesity. The fact that they were too ashamed or embarrassed to visit a doctor in fear of ridicule plays absolutely no part in the development their weight-related disease.
I LOVE BASIL
New member
Actually, I have read a number of articles on the topic of weight discrimination in medical care, and talked to parents who have had similar experiences. I am unable to post the link here due to site rules, but there is a good article about a woman who was 'fat shamed' upon her visit to a gynaecologist for an annual screening exam and so was reluctant to return for further appointments. The fact that she, and others in similar situations, avoid visiting the doctor for fear of ridicule may significantly undermine their health if in doing so they miss out on this and similar screening exams (secondary prevention) and so the disease is able to develop unchecked.
An environmental factor outside of their control could include an abusive family situation or traumatic experience that proves psychologically destructive and prompts them to compulsively overeat as a coping mechanism.
Another example is that low socioeconomic status may render them unable to afford healthier foods.
Why are you likening autonomous adults to immature children?
And why are you likening their reluctance to lose weight (which may be due to a complex interplay between psychological, social and biological factors, in some cases compounded by a lack of understanding of the necessity of change and inadequate support networks) to a 'hissy fit' (which rarely has so complex an underlying cause)?
"Talking to people who demonstrate repeated and consistent misbehavior doesn't work. Punishment, however, does work."
I disagree. I object also to the mislabelling of the fact that they face obstacles as 'misbehaviour' on their part. I understand it is difficult for us to see eye to eye on this issue, but as a future medical professional, I intend to respect my patients and make the effort to look more deeply into the issues that make lifestyle change difficult for them, rather than taking an authoritarian/paternalistic approach and treating them as immature children.
An environmental factor outside of their control could include an abusive family situation or traumatic experience that proves psychologically destructive and prompts them to compulsively overeat as a coping mechanism.
Another example is that low socioeconomic status may render them unable to afford healthier foods.
Why are you likening autonomous adults to immature children?
And why are you likening their reluctance to lose weight (which may be due to a complex interplay between psychological, social and biological factors, in some cases compounded by a lack of understanding of the necessity of change and inadequate support networks) to a 'hissy fit' (which rarely has so complex an underlying cause)?
"Talking to people who demonstrate repeated and consistent misbehavior doesn't work. Punishment, however, does work."
I disagree. I object also to the mislabelling of the fact that they face obstacles as 'misbehaviour' on their part. I understand it is difficult for us to see eye to eye on this issue, but as a future medical professional, I intend to respect my patients and make the effort to look more deeply into the issues that make lifestyle change difficult for them, rather than taking an authoritarian/paternalistic approach and treating them as immature children.
ChefChiTown
New member
This so-called lady you speak of - she was fat before she went to the doctor. Therefore, her being "fat shamed" by the doctor has absolutely nothing to do with her weight problem. It's an excuse - and a poor one at that - to avoid seeking medical attention. My doctors have called me fat in the past. You know why? Because, it's their job. Their job is to make people healthy. And, if a fat slob like myself walks into a doctor's office, the doctor wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't say something about their weight. "Chef, you're really fat, man. You need to drop some pounds so you don't die. Get off your ass and get yourself healthy. Otherwise, you could die." How is that any different than a doctor telling a patient to quit drinking? Or to stop smoking? It's not. But, people want to whine and moan about how "mean" doctors are just so they can gain a pretend sense of justification as to why they live unhealthy lives.
"I'm afraid of going to the doctor because he might call me fat." - then follow your doctor's advice and lose some weight. Then he won't call you fat...because you won't be fat.
If someone gets beaten as a child or has a traumatic experience, it's still no excuse to justify their weight. Sure, people find comfort in food, but that's not news. And, you don't even have to suffer trauma as a child to do so. I had a great childhood, free of any traumatic experiences, but I still find comfort in food. It's part of our lives - it's how we have been raised in our generation. So, no, that's no excuse either.
Good for you, wanting to treat people with respect. But, your job in the medical profession (once you get there) isn't to be a friend. Just like parents - it's not a parent's job to be their child's friend - it's to be their parent, to help improve their life by correcting their behaviors that are harmful to themselves and to others. And, as a medical professional, it's not your job to be your patient's friend - it's to be their medical caregiver, to help improve their life by correcting their behaviors that are harmful to themselves and to others. And, not all people respond to attempts at reason. Sometimes, you have to spank a child to get them to stop doing something wrong. And, sometimes you have to punish an adult to get them to stop doing something wrong. That's why I compared children to adults.
We're just sharing perspectives here, right? ;-)
Regarding the last couple of entries, I agree and disagree with both points of view.
Definitely, it is not a doctor's "job" to be kind. It's one thing for doctors to tell their patients who smoke, to stop smoking. It would be, at best, unprofessional, to ridicule the patient in every interaction, because the patient won't quit smoking. In reality, there are MANY overweight doctors, as well as those who smoke, abuse drugs and alcohol, etc., etc. If they chastise their patients for doing the same thing, they're just hypocrites. Do as I say and not as I do, is the corresponding refrain. Either way, you don't get to mock someone for not being perfect, even if you are.
I absolutely want my doctor to be dispassionate about my health care. I want my doctor to give me the straight skinny about what's going on or how I can improve. But I don't think there's any confusion between experiencing advice or encouragement, and experiencing disrespect or mocking.
On being overweight...
There are countless reasons people become overweight. It is probably true that most of us eat too much and exercise too little. There are some with hormonal problems that lead to weight gain and/or an inability to lose weight through healthy lifestyle alone. There are even those who claim obesity began on a large scale when pesticides began being used on a large scale, and can even show a link between growing obesity rates after pesticides begin being used in areas where they hadn't before. There is another claim that a virus predisposes an individual to weight gain, and about half the population has this virus. I don't pretend to be an expert in this area. I similarly don't try to assume why any given individual is overweight, much less judge them based on my assumption. I am judged amply as it is. I don't need to add to it.
It is sadly too common that many girls and women who've been sexually assaulted will subconsciously gain weight to make themselves less-likely to attract male attention, for fear of further victimization. When millions of unrelated people spontaneously develop the same coping strategy, it has to be viewed as a natural response to trauma, rather than a premeditated excuse.
In my own case, I was always super-thin, most of my adult life. My doctor diagnosed me with PCOS many years ago, and told me very little about the condition. Indeed, with almost no symptoms, the condition was practically irrelevant to me, and I all but forgot about it. Suddenly, about 5-6 years ago, I bean to gain weight. I tried dieting, exercising, and all the usual strategies to lose weight, and coudn't shift a pound. Sanctimonious folks would accuse me of lying about how much I was eating or working out, making me feel even more alone in my struggle. Purely through my own efforts, I finally learned about the link between PCOS and insulin resistance, and how this made it all but impossible to lose weight, short of daily marathon running and starvation. (For example, I was deathly ill a couple of years ago, unable to eat, and vomiting daily (hourly, at first). I didn't eat anything for at least a week and didn't lose weight. Try that if you're not insulin resistant.).
What no doctor ever told me...and likely many doctors don't even know...and what I learned from other PCOS folks...is that plain, ol' cinnamon is an insulin sensitizer. Once I added a cinnamon supplement to my diet, suddenly calorie cutting and exercise were doing their thing. Despite the previous two months gaining weight while in severe caloric deficit, my weight is now in free fall from the day I started taking a cinnamon supplement. I'm experiencing nearly the weight loss I would expect from this degree of caloric deficit, now that cinnamon has normalized my sensitivity to insulin. (I'm now averaging about 2.5lbs lost per week.)
Irritatingly, I discovered this is well-known by many. I found countless online articles and anecdotes. I even recall one of the sources being the livestrong web site, with a page dedicated to cinnamon as a way to treat PCOS-related insulin resistance.
I get angry when I think about the fact no doctor ever informed me of this. I get angry when I think of all the wasted time and effort. ...All my failed attempts to lose weight over the past 5 years. ...How brutally hard I worked out and dieted for the two months prior to learning about the cinnamon solution. If just one doctor had mentioned that PCOS was related to insulin resistance, or that an easy way to address this is by consuming 1-6g of cinnamon per day, then I probably never would have become overweight in the first place. I get very frustrated when I think about everything I've needlessly endured while overweight. Thanks, doctors (and self-appointed Internet weight loss experts), for all the helpful advice! (rolls eyes)
Now....finally...on just being human...
I would not elect to see a doctor who was a jerk. If I had any choice at all, I would not go back for more abuse. Only a masochist would. But I'm currently going through a similar experience with my dentist. It's not identical to the described scenario, since the issue has nothing to do with my oral health. But the discomfort I felt seeing a new dentist a year ago has kept me from going back. I finally realized that my discomfort was keeping me from getting the dental care I deserve, so I'm now looking for a new dentist, again. On my first visit with my then-new dentist last year, her assistant made some comments about my large pores (another "gift" from PCOS), and some popular product I should try to correct this awful, awful flaw of mine. Of course, I have their hands in my mouth, and can't explain that I'd already tried that product, with terrible results, like over 40% of the product's users, according to online reviews. That, alone, made me very self-conscious. Why was she inspecting my skin? She was probably 10+ years younger than I am, but looks older, yet has the superiority to give unsolicited skincare advice to others? (I did take her aside, later, and "corrected" her misinformed views on the product's efficacy.) Then, in a conversation with the dentist, I off-handedly mentioned something about eating a mostly vegan diet, and despite my excellent, overall health, extremely youthful looks, and near-perfect teeth, the dentist felt the need to "inform" me (laughing) of the problems I should be careful to avoid, regarding a vegan diet. The old, unscientific, outdated, and just plain inaccurate myths she spouted told me this was someone who is not especially knowledgeable about nutrition, physiology, or human evolution, and maybe I should be skeptical of her dentistry skills, as well. But, in truth, it just made me not want to come back. I really don't see a dentist for bad skincare advice or to hear ridiculous myths.
In all, I don't feel bad about being a human being, with feelings and opinions, and a right to a modicum of dignity in my daily interactions. I don't go back for more, when someone treats me badly. I am painfully realistic, and rely on fact and reason to solve most of my dilemmas. It's how I (so far, at least, have seemingly) solved my own weight problem, no thanks to a single doctor or self-appointed Internet "expert". So, while I agree that a doctor must be firm with patients who are harming themselves, it's just unrealistic to think that by disrespecting them, they'll magically change.
It reminds me of an incident with a former colleague. She mentioned how her brother was dating someone the family really disliked. She said they would harp at her brother about how awful the young woman was (in their eyes), to no avail. I explained that they were maybe coming at it the wrong way. If they built up the brother's confidence, maybe he would strive for a more accomplished (in the eyes of his family) partner. I explained that negative commands rarely work. Tell someone to stop thinking about elephants, and they'll probably start thinking about elephants. Positive commands work best. If you tell someone to sit down, they can do that immediately, without thinking. I suggested she and her family shift their focus from their dislike of this woman, to praising the brother for his accomplishments, and other positive qualities. I bet her that, in time, he would feel so great about himself, he'd seek out an equally fabulous mate. And guess what... That's exactly what happened. She later contacted me and said that conversation changed her life. She always focused on negatives, rather than looking at what was already great, or how to make a situation better.
I have found that helping people, encouraging them, educating them, and other positive actions are infinitely more successful than hoping they'll have some sort of "I'll prove him wrong" reverse psychology response.
Regarding the last couple of entries, I agree and disagree with both points of view.
Definitely, it is not a doctor's "job" to be kind. It's one thing for doctors to tell their patients who smoke, to stop smoking. It would be, at best, unprofessional, to ridicule the patient in every interaction, because the patient won't quit smoking. In reality, there are MANY overweight doctors, as well as those who smoke, abuse drugs and alcohol, etc., etc. If they chastise their patients for doing the same thing, they're just hypocrites. Do as I say and not as I do, is the corresponding refrain. Either way, you don't get to mock someone for not being perfect, even if you are.
I absolutely want my doctor to be dispassionate about my health care. I want my doctor to give me the straight skinny about what's going on or how I can improve. But I don't think there's any confusion between experiencing advice or encouragement, and experiencing disrespect or mocking.
On being overweight...
There are countless reasons people become overweight. It is probably true that most of us eat too much and exercise too little. There are some with hormonal problems that lead to weight gain and/or an inability to lose weight through healthy lifestyle alone. There are even those who claim obesity began on a large scale when pesticides began being used on a large scale, and can even show a link between growing obesity rates after pesticides begin being used in areas where they hadn't before. There is another claim that a virus predisposes an individual to weight gain, and about half the population has this virus. I don't pretend to be an expert in this area. I similarly don't try to assume why any given individual is overweight, much less judge them based on my assumption. I am judged amply as it is. I don't need to add to it.
It is sadly too common that many girls and women who've been sexually assaulted will subconsciously gain weight to make themselves less-likely to attract male attention, for fear of further victimization. When millions of unrelated people spontaneously develop the same coping strategy, it has to be viewed as a natural response to trauma, rather than a premeditated excuse.
In my own case, I was always super-thin, most of my adult life. My doctor diagnosed me with PCOS many years ago, and told me very little about the condition. Indeed, with almost no symptoms, the condition was practically irrelevant to me, and I all but forgot about it. Suddenly, about 5-6 years ago, I bean to gain weight. I tried dieting, exercising, and all the usual strategies to lose weight, and coudn't shift a pound. Sanctimonious folks would accuse me of lying about how much I was eating or working out, making me feel even more alone in my struggle. Purely through my own efforts, I finally learned about the link between PCOS and insulin resistance, and how this made it all but impossible to lose weight, short of daily marathon running and starvation. (For example, I was deathly ill a couple of years ago, unable to eat, and vomiting daily (hourly, at first). I didn't eat anything for at least a week and didn't lose weight. Try that if you're not insulin resistant.).
What no doctor ever told me...and likely many doctors don't even know...and what I learned from other PCOS folks...is that plain, ol' cinnamon is an insulin sensitizer. Once I added a cinnamon supplement to my diet, suddenly calorie cutting and exercise were doing their thing. Despite the previous two months gaining weight while in severe caloric deficit, my weight is now in free fall from the day I started taking a cinnamon supplement. I'm experiencing nearly the weight loss I would expect from this degree of caloric deficit, now that cinnamon has normalized my sensitivity to insulin. (I'm now averaging about 2.5lbs lost per week.)
Irritatingly, I discovered this is well-known by many. I found countless online articles and anecdotes. I even recall one of the sources being the livestrong web site, with a page dedicated to cinnamon as a way to treat PCOS-related insulin resistance.
I get angry when I think about the fact no doctor ever informed me of this. I get angry when I think of all the wasted time and effort. ...All my failed attempts to lose weight over the past 5 years. ...How brutally hard I worked out and dieted for the two months prior to learning about the cinnamon solution. If just one doctor had mentioned that PCOS was related to insulin resistance, or that an easy way to address this is by consuming 1-6g of cinnamon per day, then I probably never would have become overweight in the first place. I get very frustrated when I think about everything I've needlessly endured while overweight. Thanks, doctors (and self-appointed Internet weight loss experts), for all the helpful advice! (rolls eyes)
Now....finally...on just being human...
I would not elect to see a doctor who was a jerk. If I had any choice at all, I would not go back for more abuse. Only a masochist would. But I'm currently going through a similar experience with my dentist. It's not identical to the described scenario, since the issue has nothing to do with my oral health. But the discomfort I felt seeing a new dentist a year ago has kept me from going back. I finally realized that my discomfort was keeping me from getting the dental care I deserve, so I'm now looking for a new dentist, again. On my first visit with my then-new dentist last year, her assistant made some comments about my large pores (another "gift" from PCOS), and some popular product I should try to correct this awful, awful flaw of mine. Of course, I have their hands in my mouth, and can't explain that I'd already tried that product, with terrible results, like over 40% of the product's users, according to online reviews. That, alone, made me very self-conscious. Why was she inspecting my skin? She was probably 10+ years younger than I am, but looks older, yet has the superiority to give unsolicited skincare advice to others? (I did take her aside, later, and "corrected" her misinformed views on the product's efficacy.) Then, in a conversation with the dentist, I off-handedly mentioned something about eating a mostly vegan diet, and despite my excellent, overall health, extremely youthful looks, and near-perfect teeth, the dentist felt the need to "inform" me (laughing) of the problems I should be careful to avoid, regarding a vegan diet. The old, unscientific, outdated, and just plain inaccurate myths she spouted told me this was someone who is not especially knowledgeable about nutrition, physiology, or human evolution, and maybe I should be skeptical of her dentistry skills, as well. But, in truth, it just made me not want to come back. I really don't see a dentist for bad skincare advice or to hear ridiculous myths.
In all, I don't feel bad about being a human being, with feelings and opinions, and a right to a modicum of dignity in my daily interactions. I don't go back for more, when someone treats me badly. I am painfully realistic, and rely on fact and reason to solve most of my dilemmas. It's how I (so far, at least, have seemingly) solved my own weight problem, no thanks to a single doctor or self-appointed Internet "expert". So, while I agree that a doctor must be firm with patients who are harming themselves, it's just unrealistic to think that by disrespecting them, they'll magically change.
It reminds me of an incident with a former colleague. She mentioned how her brother was dating someone the family really disliked. She said they would harp at her brother about how awful the young woman was (in their eyes), to no avail. I explained that they were maybe coming at it the wrong way. If they built up the brother's confidence, maybe he would strive for a more accomplished (in the eyes of his family) partner. I explained that negative commands rarely work. Tell someone to stop thinking about elephants, and they'll probably start thinking about elephants. Positive commands work best. If you tell someone to sit down, they can do that immediately, without thinking. I suggested she and her family shift their focus from their dislike of this woman, to praising the brother for his accomplishments, and other positive qualities. I bet her that, in time, he would feel so great about himself, he'd seek out an equally fabulous mate. And guess what... That's exactly what happened. She later contacted me and said that conversation changed her life. She always focused on negatives, rather than looking at what was already great, or how to make a situation better.
I have found that helping people, encouraging them, educating them, and other positive actions are infinitely more successful than hoping they'll have some sort of "I'll prove him wrong" reverse psychology response.
jeanflores101
New member
fat people is made to have a good example for us. it is a mirror of what well happen to us if we abuse in food intake. living as an obese person is a very crucial thing happen because it will attract our body to create another illness such as hypertension,diabetes.
ChefChiTown
New member
I think that's where the big problem lies - some people consider it ridicule if a doctor were to simply tell them that they were overweight - some people are far too sensitive about the reality of their life. My aunt, who is an overweight diabetic, bitches about how mean her doctors are on a constant basis. Why, you ask? Because, they get stern with her and tell her that she's going to die if she doesn't start eating better and exercising, which is something she refuses to do. Her doctors have given her special diets and exercise programs to follow, but my aunt has never once followed their orders. So, when she goes into the doctor and they find out she hasn't done what they have told her to do, they get stern with her and reinforce the fact that, if she doesn't change her ways, she'll drop dead. But, according to my aunt, her doctors are "mean" and "cruel."
That's the reality of it - a lot of people are just way too sensitive about reality and, when reality requires them to put in a little bit of effort, they whine and moan. Instead of putting in some effort - instead of simply watching what she eats and getting up to walk around for a few minutes every day - my aunt gets defensive and claims that it's the doctor's fault, because they're "mean" to her and because the way they speak to her is "cruel" and "uncalled for."
I'm fat. If a doctor told me I was fat, I'd be like, "Yeah, I know." I wouldn't come home, crying to mommy about how the doctor was a big meany and that I never want to ever go back to a doctor again, boo hoo. But, sadly, some people do. And, their attitude is the problem, not the doctors.
However, there are doctors (just as in any profession) who are truly cruel and treat their patients with a level of disrespect that is never excusable. But, I have a hard time believing that "fat shaming" is something that is common in the medical profession. I personally believe it's just a method of whining that some people use in order to avoid taking responsibility for their own lack of health.
I don't disagree with any of that, Chef. 
It is, unfortunately, a common human trait to deny responsibility in just about every circumstance. I remember a t.v. show, where a dog owner and a fed-up neighbour were the guests. Typical of negligent dog owners, the one guest would let his dog bark and bark and bark, disturbing his neighbour. Get this, though... The dog owner actually put the blame on his neighbour, saying the dog only barked when he was in his yard. He actually (and I'm just as incredulous today as when I first heard him say it) said the neighbour shouldn't spend so much time in his own yard, if he didn't like the dog barking. WTH?!?!?!?!?
Drivers speed then cause accidents, blaming lawful drivers for not getting out of their way in time. Teenagers skip chemistry and calculus class because it's "boring," then whine when they're not qualified for good paying jobs.
I pride myself on being responsible for my actions. 'Treat others as I want to be treated', and 'I'm either part of the solution or part of the problem.'
But, I would only add that it is too easy to judge others. For most of my adult life, when I was naturally thin, and didn't need to do anything to maintain my weight, I woud've said (in fact, did say) that overweight people just ate too much. ...Not some arbitrary caloric amount, but the fat was the proof they were eating more than their bodies required. And, for most, that is probably the reality. But now that I'm struggling with weight for the first time, especially after months of severe caloric deficit didn't result in weight loss, and pure accident led me to a solution which appears to be working, I know that my previous, unscientific opinions were simply wrong.
I eat maybe 1,000 calories a day, most days, with 1-2 hours of strenuous exercise every day. I have time for that. Many people don't. I gained weight for the first two months. Just a couple of pounds, then I'd lose a pound or two, then gain a pound or two. But always a net gain compared to my starting weight. Once I added an insulin sensitizer, I started losing weight. But only 1-3 tenths of a pound per day. Based on results to date, if I don't workout for at least an hour, I won't even lose that. If I eat more than about 1,500 calories, I won't even lose that. If I don't eat at least 5 sticks of celery, I won't lose any weight. If I don't drink any coffee, I don't lose any weight. I'm doing so many little things, just to get that 1-3 tenths of a pound loss. I can EASILY see how someone might never find a combination that works for them, and give up. It's pure luck I was able to maintain motivation to continue through 2 months of failure until I did learn about my specific problem and a possible solution. ...Pure luck.
Now my problem is I have to eat so little to keep losing weight, I'm struggling to get all the necessary nutrients my body needs, in so few calories. I try to get iron, calcium and fibre from spinach; more fibre from celery and maybe a slice of wholegrain bread with blackstrap molasses (for iron); nuts, hummus, edamame/tofu, and lentils for protein (and other nutrients), and those are pretty much the common ingredients in my diet. I might have a coffee and 5 almonds or pistachios as a snack, or an apple. I make 1 cup of fennel soup and add bok choy. I drink beet, grapefruit, and tomato juice....and water, of course. Consider portion sizes of those foods, totaling 1,000-1,500 calories per day, and I know most people couldn't tolerate it for long. I don't really care about food that much, so I'm okay. Those are all normal things I had been eating...just MUCH less, now. But my husband, who is both gigantic and a gourmand, often exclaims that he couldn't survive my diet & exercise regime. He's very supportive, which helps a lot.
As such, this has been a really humbling experience for me.
It is, unfortunately, a common human trait to deny responsibility in just about every circumstance. I remember a t.v. show, where a dog owner and a fed-up neighbour were the guests. Typical of negligent dog owners, the one guest would let his dog bark and bark and bark, disturbing his neighbour. Get this, though... The dog owner actually put the blame on his neighbour, saying the dog only barked when he was in his yard. He actually (and I'm just as incredulous today as when I first heard him say it) said the neighbour shouldn't spend so much time in his own yard, if he didn't like the dog barking. WTH?!?!?!?!?Drivers speed then cause accidents, blaming lawful drivers for not getting out of their way in time. Teenagers skip chemistry and calculus class because it's "boring," then whine when they're not qualified for good paying jobs.
I pride myself on being responsible for my actions. 'Treat others as I want to be treated', and 'I'm either part of the solution or part of the problem.'
But, I would only add that it is too easy to judge others. For most of my adult life, when I was naturally thin, and didn't need to do anything to maintain my weight, I woud've said (in fact, did say) that overweight people just ate too much. ...Not some arbitrary caloric amount, but the fat was the proof they were eating more than their bodies required. And, for most, that is probably the reality. But now that I'm struggling with weight for the first time, especially after months of severe caloric deficit didn't result in weight loss, and pure accident led me to a solution which appears to be working, I know that my previous, unscientific opinions were simply wrong.
I eat maybe 1,000 calories a day, most days, with 1-2 hours of strenuous exercise every day. I have time for that. Many people don't. I gained weight for the first two months. Just a couple of pounds, then I'd lose a pound or two, then gain a pound or two. But always a net gain compared to my starting weight. Once I added an insulin sensitizer, I started losing weight. But only 1-3 tenths of a pound per day. Based on results to date, if I don't workout for at least an hour, I won't even lose that. If I eat more than about 1,500 calories, I won't even lose that. If I don't eat at least 5 sticks of celery, I won't lose any weight. If I don't drink any coffee, I don't lose any weight. I'm doing so many little things, just to get that 1-3 tenths of a pound loss. I can EASILY see how someone might never find a combination that works for them, and give up. It's pure luck I was able to maintain motivation to continue through 2 months of failure until I did learn about my specific problem and a possible solution. ...Pure luck.
Now my problem is I have to eat so little to keep losing weight, I'm struggling to get all the necessary nutrients my body needs, in so few calories. I try to get iron, calcium and fibre from spinach; more fibre from celery and maybe a slice of wholegrain bread with blackstrap molasses (for iron); nuts, hummus, edamame/tofu, and lentils for protein (and other nutrients), and those are pretty much the common ingredients in my diet. I might have a coffee and 5 almonds or pistachios as a snack, or an apple. I make 1 cup of fennel soup and add bok choy. I drink beet, grapefruit, and tomato juice....and water, of course. Consider portion sizes of those foods, totaling 1,000-1,500 calories per day, and I know most people couldn't tolerate it for long. I don't really care about food that much, so I'm okay. Those are all normal things I had been eating...just MUCH less, now. But my husband, who is both gigantic and a gourmand, often exclaims that he couldn't survive my diet & exercise regime. He's very supportive, which helps a lot.
As such, this has been a really humbling experience for me.
notforlong
New member
i doubt it'll work, people spend tons on food so they're not gonna be budged by a fine. they should be fined if they feed their kids badly!!
You do not have the right to tell people what they can, and cannot put into there bodies. And that goes for exercise as well. If they choose to sit on their butt and eat pizza 5 times a week, well that's their choice and the government needs to stay out of it. By choice, I choose to workout and eat right. I don't do it because I fear that if I don't, the federal government will smash down my door and drag me off to the YMCA. By ignoring, we give the government to many rights that they don't have. And if we keep ignoring them, we won't have any right's left at all.
If our government really wanted to do something to help the people they represent, then they'd have the toxic additive msg banned ... Again!
Stand up for your overweight neighbor ...
If our government really wanted to do something to help the people they represent, then they'd have the toxic additive msg banned ... Again!
Stand up for your overweight neighbor ...