i`m here again

i know i ca`nt pose.
i know my chest is lacking(another 15-20 lb cut should sort that)

i`m at 180lbs now trying to get to 165 very slowly.

i guess my question is how do i look at this moment,and yes my bf estimate would be great.

well take the piss Flying Free (at least i`m not in a public toilet lol)
 

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I would say you have done well since your avatar pic. But why cut? Your lats and biceps will certainly go leaving you little muscle. Why does everyone want to look like Ricky Hatton?
 
i know i ca`nt pose.
i know my chest is lacking(another 15-20 lb cut should sort that)

i`m at 180lbs now trying to get to 165 very slowly.

i guess my question is how do i look at this moment,and yes my bf estimate would be great.

well take the piss Flying Free (at least i`m not in a public toilet lol)


Blackbeard : Because Marko's fitness goals are not yours, and his feelings toward them, are simply not yours. Which simply makes it wrong for you, and absolutely correct for him. Thus revealing one of the true beauties of fitness. :)

Marko:

I have always used DEXA to determine my personal body fat percentages. But, I just don't do it, because I am curious. I do it because it can tell a principled personal story, and how to handle things in the future with diet and fitness, and in a lot cases, how to approach myself. It can be quite forthcoming, and important.

Short and sweet:

Since obviously I cannot use DEXA, or a pair of calipers and reach through the monitor, and start pinching "ya @ss" over the internet :), let's say you handed me crystal ball, and it told me what your approximated BF was. :)

Lets say your BF is approximated to be (exampled to): 12-14%, at your stated 180 lbs.

And we will used the low end number of 12% to work with.

To approximate fat pounds, we take the 12%, and change it to a decimal number.

Such as: 180 X 0.12, which gives us: 21.6 pounds (fat pounds approximation)

The next step is to subtract the fat pounds from your 180 pounds of total weight:

Such as: 180 - 21.6, which gives us: 158.4 (LBM approximation)

Using these approximated numbers gives us: 21.6 pounds of fat, and 158.4 pounds of Lean Body Mass.

If at this point, one is basically satisfied with their build (muscle mass, so-to-speak), this tells a very informative and important story.

One could very easily develop a weight training program where the point is to "attempt to maintain" their muscle mass (assuming one has a history, and is pumping some iron during this time), and shift focus primarily on burning the fat off. Nonetheless, understanding there will be some muscle tissue loss, because "assuming there is not" is a bad assumption.

The following assumes no LBM loss (muscle tissue):

Let's continue:

Marko's Goal Weight = Current Lean Body Mass / (1-Goal Body Fat percentage as a decimal)

Let's say, Marko, you want to get to say 8% Body fat. The Calculation would be something like this:

You goal Body Fat Percentage in Decimal: 0.08
You approximated LBM: 154.8lbs
Fat pounds: 21.6

Marko's Goal Weight then = 154.8 / (1 - 0.08) = 154.8/0.92 = 168.26 lbs, which assumes no loss/gain in LBM.

Keeping your LBM (equal, minor), you would have to drop another approximate 12 pounds to reach the approximated 8% BF, again keeping LBM equal.

Which makes your target weight of 165, very feasible. Additionally, your approximated tissue loss (with your first post) is fairly accurate as well.

Hypothetically, keeping things equal, 165 could bring you to about 8%.

You will be surprised, in how muscle looks, when you drop in BF. If this is what you want, then go get it.

Now, there must be some talk on the diet.......to get you there.


Best wishes,

Chillen
 
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Blackbeard : Because Marko's fitness goals are not yours, and his feelings toward them, are simply not yours. Which simply makes it wrong for you, and absolutely correct for him. Thus revealing one of the true beauties of fitness. :)

What is Marko's fitness goal? To look like Bruce Lee? I thought one should be looking to preserve the muscle and burn the fat?
 
I`m happy starting of by getting in 2000-2500 cals per day.

I posted my workout earlier in this thread,which i was going to change after the christmas holidays.But i`ve decided to stick with it for the time being and see how it goes.

As for cardio i will be running on the treadmill a minimum of 4x per week(always in the am).When the weather picks up i`ll take it outside along with my bike.

I will be doing a mixture of HIIT and SS i know thats not to everybodies taste, but i actually like a long run every now and again(it relaxes me).

As for diet i`m aiming to eat 6-8 small meals for example;

Breakfast-scrambled eggs(6 white 4 yolk)on slice of wholegrain bread.Or oats with banana and a drizzle of honey.

Snack1-apple/banana.

Lunch-chicken breast with wholegrain rice and broccoli or wholegrain pitta and tuna.

Snack2-cottage cheese on 2 multigrain rivita or more fruit.

Dinner-This could be chicken/turkey/ salmon/lean minced beef with either whole wheat spaghetti or wholegrain rice and veg (i`m a big veg eater,so it would take ll day to right down certain recipies)

Snack3-cottage cheese on celery.

Also i have a PWO shake.

Supps-2 fish oil capsules/2 fibre capsules/1 multivitamin.

Oils-extra virgin olive oil/nuts and mixed seeds.

I make all meals from scratch myself no processed crap,i do`nt use condiments at all apart from freashly ground black pepper.

I like coffee but i`ve cut back so i now only drink it in the am.After noon i`ll drink only water and green tea.

As this is gradual i`ll be happy to lose no more than a lb a week on average.

All this being said i do`nt know how much i have to lose until i`m happy, my quote of 10-15lbs is just a ballpark figure at the moment.





I guess it`s a steep learning curve,and think will defo need to be tweaked,so i`ll just have to listen to my body.


Thanks for your post chill__________________
 
To be sub 10%bf at 165-170lbs:D

Your opening post indicated what your personal fitness goals were, quite clearly. Therefore I do not understand the fuss :) :) Plus, its not like I haven't followed your progress the last year or so.

My first post was just addressing your clearly defined point.

My first post purpose was to show the approximation weight you would most-likely need to be "around" to achieve this personal goal, and the amount of approximate fat pounds you would potentially have to lose.

"Practically" no one wants to lose muscle tissue when focusing on fat loss, but there almost always is with one training for any length of period. Additionally, my first post assumed you wanted to preserve as much as possible.

I'd estimate a ballpark figure of about 10-12 pounds of fat loss to reach your goal objective.


With this clearly in mind, I have a few questions.

1. When dropping your weight (up to this point), did you primarily use single sand bagging deficits, without any manipulation of macro nutrients? With the macro nutrients I mean, they were basically normal/average in grams, and solicited fat loss.

If this is the case, are you still dropping primarily fat weight? Or have you plateaued? During this time did you tend to carry excess water? When you ate fairly large Carbohydrate meals what did you feel like?

Size of deficits?

2. When dropping your weight (up to this point), have you adjoined a calorie deficit with manipulation of the macro nutrients? Primarily carbohydrates and then mediating the remaining grams to protein and fats.

If so what have you done? How long? What response did you get? What did you feel like. Water retention level?

These are basic and general questions pointed directly and squarely at you focusing on how you-- "have"-- responded to diet, because (and this assumption is rather strong) that you may have to change your methods as you drop in body fat and will eventually hit a wall, and how you approach this bodily rebellion is how you have been responding to diet in the past, and messing with the logistics of it in the present.

And, I would like to offer up some suggestions.


Best wishes Marko, and you look good.

Chillen
 
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I know you`ll shout at your monitor for this....but i havent been counting the calories to the letter:D

I`ve basically dropped the amount of carbs i`m eating,upped the cardio and lifted heavy.

Over the course of the last 5 weeks i`ve dropped 5-7 lbs.

As of yet i`ve not hit a plateau,but i know i will:D

In short i`m eating very clean(filling up on veg) and getting protein at every meal.

I know it`s not as indepth a response as you woud like chill (sorry)

Also i`m doing this really slowly (i`ve given myself 15 weeks to lose the 10-12 lbs of fat) as to try and keep as much muscle as possible.

Thanks for your posts chillen as always...good reading
 
I`m happy starting of by getting in 2000-2500 cals per day.

Weight: 180ish
Gender: Male
Height: 5ft 9
Age: 40 :) I think you are 39, but what the heck, ;) Adjusting it down, one or two years, doesn't make much difference. :)

•If you are sedentary : BMR x 1.2

2149.45

•If you are lightly active: BMR x 1.375

2462.91

•If you are moderately active (You exercise most days a week.): BMR x 1.55

2776.37

•If you are very active (You exercise daily.): BMR x 1.725

3089.84

•If you are extra active (You do hard labor or are in athletic training.): BMR x 1.9

3403.30

Your last thread, you stated you were about 193 pounds, and this is a drop of 13 pounds, which indicates obviously, you are doing things right to solicit the fat loss you wish.

And, its my opinion, if the fat tissue loss to muscle composition, is to your personal satisfaction, there is no reason to change it. Unless, possibly you wish to do it a bit faster with a different approach, which I can assist in developing for you.

The only change I would consider (if you haven't already) is changing your caloric consumption of your "off training days" as your maintenance level is obviously different in comparison, and maybe tweaking carbohydrates down a tad, and giving the portion you take out to protein/fats (EFA's).

As for cardio i will be running on the treadmill a minimum of 4x per week(always in the am).When the weather picks up i`ll take it outside along with my bike.

I will be doing a mixture of HIIT and SS i know that's not to every bodies taste, but i actually like a long run every now and again(it relaxes me).

To heck with everybody's taste. So what? You have to perform things...specifically applicable to you, and learn what works and what doesn't.

You absorb educated info and make an educated decision based on your personal position/lifestyle, personal goal, and work with it and adjust from it, based on the feed back you are getting. Simply trying to make yourself happy for the sake of another opinion, is the wrong path. :) What makes YOU happy is what you primarily focus on.

It's this simple. Worrying about what people think (in general) will make you crazy. Just do it!

It is safe to say (with one training for any length of period especially), that if one is running deficits (in calories for any significant length) and where appropriate, macro nutrients (pointing to carbohydrate manipulation, and its associated partitioning of the others), that ones ability to recover can suffer. How much depends on many personal pliable factors.

Here are some interesting reads on SS and HIIT, I posted recently and its applicable to your training methods:

mike-boyle-explaining-interval-training

And a couple of posts I made here:

running-morning

I like coffee but i`ve cut back so i now only drink it in the am.After noon i`ll drink only water and green tea.

Coffee can play a quiet but beneficial role in your current circumstances. I have flip flopped on this and have had many mixed feelings (but my feelings on fat burners are rather clear cut: THEY SUCK!), but in the end when speaking in terms of normal consumption (from coffee or tea beverages with nothing else added), and all the smoke clears, it is a stimulant. Modest consumption certainly will not bust your nuts. :)

As this is gradual i`ll be happy to lose no more than a lb a week on average.

This is more than reasonable.

All this being said i do`nt know how much i have to lose until i`m happy, my quote of 10-15lbs is just a ballpark figure at the moment

My first posted assisted in helping you with this. Now, have your deficit targets per day (with this target being different on your off training days), and simply keep this trend, as there is no reason to change if fat loss is occurring.

And, regarding your diet, this is a most interesting read, by a person I respect (a lot) in this industry:

Insulin Sensitivity and Fat Loss:

http://training.fitness.com/wellness/chillout-log-chillen-230-25737.html#post360359

=========================================================
I guess it`s a steep learning curve,and think will defo need to be tweaked,so i`ll just have to listen to my body.

If you do not see tissue loss in a week 7-8 days (two weeks tops), and you have been training and dieting regularly, change something. Sometimes re-feeds work and are applicable, at other times other adjustments have to occur.

Additionally, as your weight drops your calorie requirements likewise drop, and remember this.


Best regards,

Chillen
 
I know you`ll shout at your monitor for this....but i havent been counting the calories to the letter:D

Yes, Marko, I do advocate "knowing" what one is consuming, because this consumption value is very important to tissue loss. In the most basic terminology, its is energy in versus energy out, and some cases messing with how the body handles energy within (as in manipulating macro nutrients), and having a personal history on yourself can prove to be valuable.

However, I regress. There are many ways that "experienced" people can perform this action other than recording every morsel eaten.

I am not going to scream too much :), because of your bottom line: You are losing fat tissue, and this is what you want.

However, what I will say, is that when or if fat loss becomes a problem, what avenue/venue are you going to use to base changes from? This is why I continued to record my own personal diet particulars, though I could just do it on the fly and calculate things in my head now.

The best diet (IMO), is one that is tailored to the individual, the individual goal wanted, and there simply needs to be some type of personal control mechanism applicable to the person to get the job completed.

The type of control mechanism can vary as well. I bring this up, because your diet is going to be important to you, and how you apply this within your lifestyle.

I think a lot of the reason 'people get fat' or gain fat too much fat on a bulk (as an example) because is there is a "tendency" to just flip the restraint switch to off.....

"Bro, I need a quart of ice cream at bedtime to grow." I better drink skim milk with those Oreos. Or I better have a diet coke with those McDonald's fries. :). For example.

They end up taking in far far far too many calories (above and beyond what's needed) and the fat accumulation is disproportionate, and they become dissatisfied with results. They tend not to play ball within certain parameters as compared to one on deficient in calories to lose good fat tissue.

Why do the restraints come off on a bulk versus the applicable restraints related to cutting? This can be an individual issue.

A properly controlled bulk can often be just as much of a pain (in terms of tracking/controlling calories) as dieting to lose tissue.

But in the end, it is wise, if one wants to control the amount of fat accumulation.

I bring this up, because eyeballing what you are eating and how much you are eating is the cornerstone in determining whether you are falling within your personally outline dietary perimeters.

Though I advocate tracking calories (macro nutrients), I also know this can be rather tedious and some cases unpractical for some individuals--dependent on their lifestyle.

If its practical and one has time (honestly, and aren't bitching cause they just don't like it), I say simply "suck it up".

Until....you get to the point where you can just "eyeball" your portions sizes (and calories, etc from the package), and use one's brain as the computer to calculate the numbers on the fly....without writing them down.

Its sort of like putting training wheels on a bike for a child, after a while they are not necessarily needed anymore.......to get the job completed, but...were at first.

Therefore, you have to somehow (for you) develop a controlling strategy to know what and how much you are eating. There is really no way around this obvious fact.

One day you may need it. And, if you do.....be not one just holding your balls and meat. :)

I`ve basically dropped the amount of carbs i`m eating, upped the cardio and lifted heavy.

During a deficit, I advocate lifting heavy with careful consideration given to your recover ability, which mainly points to frequency and volume.

Maintaining muscle (in a cut--as mush as possible) doesn't take much weight training (IMO, with an experienced lifter, as we are not talking a new person here where the playing ground can be different), if careful consideration is given to macros and calories.

IMO, the days that you cut carbohydrates, surround most of them around your workout, and then space out the remaining.

Over the course of the last 5 weeks i`ve dropped 5-7 lbs.

Again, I see no point what-so-ever to change, if you are losing fat tissue. What's the point? It is simply meeting your goal purpose.

You change your approach when your body begins to show adaptions in a way that you do not like. And, if or when this happens, your history can give you an indication on what to do (and this points to the long winded words I expressed on knowing/tracking your consumption).

Pay attention on how you respond to Carbohydrates.

In short i`m eating very clean(filling up on veg) and getting protein at every meal.

I eat clean too: I make sure I wash my food with liquid dish soap everyday. :). I haven't (yet) looked at the contents of your diet, but will. :)


I wish you much success Marko. Keep up the fantastic personal progress.


Best wishes

Chillen
 
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This was taken last spring (i`ll get some more up soon)

I assume there are going to be some improvements since this picture was taken.

Considering your goal (and history), deficit diet, and training approach. Its my opinion, that when working the legs, they can take a beating in the recover ability area. Train them heavy (appropriate to you), and consistently, and when you cut down a bit, they will looked ripped when considering your fat loss focus. :) I say this only in consideration of your current dietary focus, which pretty much straight forward without any major manipulations.

Additionally, pay attention to your energy levels and how you feel. As these can be indicators of a few things,,,,,,,but look at them honestly, and not in a wimpy way. ;)


Looking great!


Best regards,

Chillen
 
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Thanks chill...as you said the bottom line is that i`m losing fat at the moment(whether through luck or good judgment),without too many problems,if and when they arise you`ll be the first to know:D

As for the legs,there will be improvment, although not as much as i would like, you may remember from previous posts i made that i broke my ankle last summer, and tore my hamstring the year before,and as you well know "old farts" do not heal as fast .....lol
 
Thanks chill...as you said the bottom line is that i`m losing fat at the moment(whether through luck or good judgment),without too many problems,if and when they arise you`ll be the first to know:D

It is obvious that through calorie deficits (primarily) alone, is soliciting fat loss with the amount of activity chosen to perform. This is categorically related to your goal, and I simply (currently) wouldn't change it in the numeric sense outside your rest days.

Keep your Proteins UP, this is important on a calorie deficit. Keep your Insulin response as stationary as biologically possible through your diet.

and as you well know "old farts" do not heal as fast .....lol

With all the bumps, bruises, and scrapes, I received in the military and police profession (explains why I am so nutty! :)), I never broken a major bone. Yes, I have noticed some recover ability issues (of course) related to training, but not really any healing issues (such as wounds etc, etc).

My shoulders (primarily) were the ones wanting to come off my body and beat my @ss :) for picking up the iron, but I shut them up with being smart with rest, and adding in shoulder girdle exercises in my routine on a regular basis.

Old fart!.....Why.......I ought string you up by your ball sack. :) lol kidding.

Chillen
 
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