I Don't Enjoy Cardio

Wild Vulpix

New member
But lifting weights is fun.

Can I get away with just lifting weights and strength training, or do I really need to have some cardio shuffled in there? My current goal is simply weight loss, but ultimately I'd like to end up with a nice, smooth body.

I haven't found any form of cardio (yet) that I enjoy doing. I get bored fast on a treadmill, elliptical, bicycle... Heck, even DDR wasn't that fun to me! Swimming is fun, and something I can do this summer almost daily, but things become pretty limited during the winter time.

So I guess I'm asking a few things here:
Do I NEED to do cardio?
What would I get from cardio that I can't get from lifting weights?
Any fun suggestions for cardio?
 
Well, you like swimming.

Isn't there a public rec centre with a pool in your area?

I'm pretty sure I would also get bored with cardio machines. I get most of my aerobic exercise by going outside (at least while the weather is good).

How about walking, jogging, running, climbing stairs, hiking, climbing?

Edit: to answer your question, I think aerobic exercise is essential, whether you are trying to lose weight or bodybuild. Look at it this way: what good is it if your muscles have great endurance but your circulatory system can't deliver the oxygen your muscles need?
The better conditioned your cardiovascular system is, the more intense your weightlifting workouts can get.

I don't know how much weight you can realistically lose by lifting weights alone. Certainly not as much as you can by doing weights and cardio.

Yeah, weightlifting burns calories too, but not as much as cardio work does. You would probably lose weight faster doing just cardio than you would doing just weights.
 
Last edited:
no you dont need to do any exercise. diet is key to weight loss. Its preferable and burns more calories to do exercise, its good for you , makes you feel better, and speeds up the metabolism. But no you dont have to do it.
 
There isn't a pool where I live right now, but there's a public pool located at the place I'll be staying at for the summer. I'll be able to use that one--at least just for the summer, on good days. But once winter rolls around, that'll be out of the question.

Walking is alright, but it's another thing I get bored of after a few days. And jogging and running, no way! I might try the Couch to 5k program sometime, but I'm not ready for it yet. Stairs and hiking, I don't like that much either, though climbing would be super fun, I think, if I knew where I could do that at.
 
no you dont need to do any exercise. diet is key to weight loss. Its preferable and burns more calories to do exercise, its good for you , makes you feel better, and speeds up the metabolism. But no you dont have to do it.

Hmmm. Thank you Wishes!

Would lifting weights give me any of those benefits? And to a lesser/greater/equal degree?
 
Well, you like swimming.

Isn't there a public rec centre with a pool in your area?

I'm pretty sure I would also get bored with cardio machines. I get most of my aerobic exercise by going outside (at least while the weather is good).

How about walking, jogging, running, climbing stairs, hiking, climbing?

Edit: to answer your question, I think aerobic exercise is essential, whether you are trying to lose weight or bodybuild. Look at it this way: what good is it if your muscles have great endurance but your circulatory system can't deliver the oxygen your muscles need?
The better conditioned your cardiovascular system is, the more intense your weightlifting workouts can get.

I don't know how much weight you can realistically lose by lifting weights alone. Certainly not as much as you can by doing weights and cardio.

Yeah, weightlifting burns calories too, but not as much as cardio work does. You would probably lose weight faster doing just cardio than you would doing just weights.

hmm, you're pretty much wrong on all accounts in this... take any study that directly compares aerobic training vs anaerobic training and anaerobic wins hands down every time for fat loss. cardio isn't needed for fat loss, period. welcome to the 80's brainwashing with the mythical 60% MHR fat burning zone.. lesigh

even on bodybuilding you're way off. while i'm sure some do cardio, I can't think of any personally that I know that do a lick of it during their bulk. and even while cutting most avoid it.

resistance training is more effective for fat loss imo than cardio will ever be. stick to doing the compounds, get the weight up, and those workouts will grind you into the ground in a big sweaty heap. Then you can enjoy the benifits of a greatly increased epoc for days afterwards and a much greater resting metabolism long term from increased muscle mass.
 
Cardio is only needed to help make a calorie deficit, you can do that just as easily with food.
 
hmm, you're pretty much wrong on all accounts in this... take any study that directly compares aerobic training vs anaerobic training and anaerobic wins hands down every time for fat loss. cardio isn't needed for fat loss, period. welcome to the 80's brainwashing with the mythical 60% MHR fat burning zone.. lesigh

even on bodybuilding you're way off. while i'm sure some do cardio, I can't think of any personally that I know that do a lick of it during their bulk. and even while cutting most avoid it.

resistance training is more effective for fat loss imo than cardio will ever be. stick to doing the compounds, get the weight up, and those workouts will grind you into the ground in a big sweaty heap. Then you can enjoy the benifits of a greatly increased epoc for days afterwards and a much greater resting metabolism long term from increased muscle mass.

The way you speak, you make it seem like an either/or proposition between aerobic and anaerobic exercise.

Hint: It's not.

Secondly, people on this forum generally use the term cardio to be all encompassing of aerobic and anaerobic exercise. Keep that in mind.

To speak directly to your post... I know plenty of bodybuilders who do a ton of aerobic exercise as a caloric sink, allowing them to eat more. It can also help improve recovery, maintain in cardiorespiratory fitness they had previously, and possibly improve calorie partitioning.

Another point of contention is not everyone is cut out for anaerobic training. It requires a higher degree of intensity and without knowing your audiences training age, I don't suggest making anaerobic training out to be the almighty. Beginners generally should start out with lower intensity modalities.

Also relating to intensity is the fact that systemic fatigue/stress is a major concern, especially for dieting individuals. While dieting, recoverability is reduced. Even if you weren't dieting, fatigue management is a huge component of the training equation. That said, mixing higher intensity stuff which tends to accumulate more systemic fatigue (central and peripheral) with lower intensity stuff (traditional aerobic exercise) is a pretty good idea where I come from.

Like I said, it's not such a clear cut line simply b/c research exists saying anaerobic training is superior to aerobic on a few levels. And to be honest, I didn't see anyone saying anything about the mythical fat burning zone nonsense either... which I concur, is a bunch of bologna. This goes back to me saying, more often than not, when people discuss "cardio" around here, they're not clearly deliniating between aerobic and anaerobic work... they use the term more loosely to be all encompassing.

My 2 cents.
 
Last edited:
What Steve said. I'm skeptical of people who give the always/never line. There are no absolutes here - different people respond differently.

And while you CAN lose weight just by changing your food intake, there are other benefits to exercise than weight loss. Not to mention exercise can speed weight loss, and make your body more efficient.

There are more reasons to not skip exercising than there are reasons to justify not doing it.

I personally believe that cardio is a good thing. I combine weights and HIIT cardio and I believe it's a key component of what helped me lose weight. I don't necessarily enjoy it either, but then again I don't always enjoy paying my bills or getting up and going to work every morning, but I do it because I know I need to. :)
 
The way you speak, you make it seem like an either/or proposition between aerobic and anaerobic exercise.

Hint: It's not.

Secondly, people on this forum generally use the term cardio to be all encompassing of aerobic and anaerobic exercise. Keep that in mind.
it's not either or. i'm just saying which works best for what. Hint: cardio (steady state) sucks for fat loss compared to pretty much everything else. thats all i'm saying.. ;) as for cardio being all encompassing, then I do apologize for that. I'm not used to hiit being called cardio when it's clearly not cardio at all being anaerobic, anabolic and makes use of the bodies atp-cp energy systems.

To speak directly to your post... I know plenty of bodybuilders who do a ton of aerobic exercise as a caloric sink, allowing them to eat more. It can also help improve recovery, maintain in cardiorespiratory fitness they had previously, and possibly improve calorie partitioning.
Agree to disagree I suppose. I do recognize the benefits of cardio. Just in my circle of friends/colleges who compete (not many, just a couple dozen) they don't do cardio during bulking. And a handful do it while cutting.

Another point of contention is not everyone is cut out for anaerobic training. It requires a higher degree of intensity and without knowing your audiences training age, I don't suggest making anaerobic training out to be the almighty. Beginners generally should start out with lower intensity modalities.
This I agree with, but only to a degree. I know you're a trainer, and while I've only been training a year now so I'm not all knowing, I do know that people are able to do a lot more than they give themselves credit for a lot of the time. The number of times I've gotten this look of "you want me to do THAT?!?!?" then they slaughter the weight for reps... I would NEVER suggest that a 40 year old woman who never worked out in her life should toss a barbell on her shoulder and go ass to the grass. But they sure as hell can grab onto a cable for support and do body weight squats. From there move onto dumbells box squats. And from that when they have the confidence and base strength, move em up to barbell. Voila, intensity, resistance and anaerobic right from day one.

Also relating to intensity is the fact that systemic fatigue/stress is a major concern, especially for dieting individuals. While dieting, recoverability is reduced. Even if you weren't dieting, fatigue management is a huge component of the training equation. That said, mixing higher intensity stuff which tends to accumulate more systemic fatigue (central and peripheral) with lower intensity stuff (traditional aerobic exercise) is a pretty good idea where I come from.
100% agree. I will never get anyone new working out more than 2-3 times a week resistance training. I make cardio optional though. I only really recommend it for general health reasons or if they are too out of shape to start intervals. I just try to eliminate it as soon as possible as their body adapts to recovery to intensity to a more 60-70% resistance 30-40% hiit split. Depending on what their goals are of course. This is assuming that someone who is moderately healthy and is trying to just lose weight. If we're talking medical conditions, or sport specific then that figure can change greatly.

Like I said, it's not such a clear cut line simply b/c research exists saying anaerobic training is superior to aerobic on a few levels. And to be honest, I didn't see anyone saying anything about the mythical fat burning zone nonsense either... which I concur, is a bunch of bologna. This goes back to me saying, more often than not, when people discuss "cardio" around here, they're not clearly deliniating between aerobic and anaerobic work... they use the term more loosely to be all encompassing.
again, my bad on cardio terms. i'll adapt to the forum ways around here..

Whenever anyone talks about cardio (steady state) to lose weight, they are talking about the mythical fat burning zone. Thats where it all started from. Those dam studies back in the 70s/80s that shown while exercising steady state, your heart rate at 60-70% HRM will cause the greatest proportion of fat to be burned. voila, a movement of stupidity is born. suddenly everyone is doing cardio to lose fat. even to this day, type it into google and you'll get thousands of hits of "health" websites saying the best way to lose fat is through 60-70% cardio.

And this is after study after study after study after study (which i know you read too, you know your stuff) shows that steady state cardio is completely useless compared to literally everything else, this myth that cardio to lose fat still remains.

*again, when i say cardio, i'm talking steady state. if the OP was talking about >80% MHR than i'm with you. i have no probs with anyone sprinting to lose fat.
 
Whenever anyone talks about cardio (steady state) to lose weight, they are talking about the mythical fat burning zone.
That's a pretty big generalization. :)

When I talk about cardio, I'm definitely not talking about any "mythical fat burning zone". I'm talking about exercise that is designed to benefit your heart and lungs which is what cardio is at it's most basic definition.

I also respectfully disagree with you (somewhat) that ss-cardio is not good for fat loss (again, we have to define terms here - ss-cardio meaning a form of cardio-vascular exercise that maintains a steady pace, not referring to the "fat burning zone" BS). Plenty of people have lost fat by incorporating some form of steady state. I have personally found that HIIT combined with strength and resistance training is much more effective for me .. but I don't think that ss-cardio should be pooh-poohed necessarily, especially for those just starting out who need to build some kind of level of basic stamina first. :)

Just my thoughts on the matter.
 
i'm with you. i think you're with me too. i said "when someone talks about cardio for fat loss".. i know full well that steady state cardio raises red blood cell count, increases vo2max, lowers blood pressure, lowers resting heart rate, etc etc. I'm not talking about that however, i'm talking about steady state cardio purely in terms of it's reported useage of burning fat.

the question becomes where did this idea of doing cardio to lose fat come from? THATS what i'm talking about. Everyone has heard that to lose fat you need to do cardio. well you ever wonder where this came about from? It came about from the 1980's where research proved that cardio done at 60-70% intensity burned the most fat per calorie while doing said exercise. thus "do cardio to maximize fat loss" was born. the thing is this is true. while at 60-70% MHR you DO burn the greatest % fat. However, the amount of fat you burn while doing exercise is completely useless as a stat compared to how much fat you burn while not doing exercise. Hence why the 60-70% truth falls flat on it's face and why hiit, resistance training, >80 MHR, etc etc are waaaayyy more effective fat burners due to it's much greater EPOC vs steady state.

And I applaud you for finding that resistance and hiit work best for you. Not surprising really, it works best for the extreme majority of the population too in the area of 100% to 1000% more effective. Or so says every single study ever published on the matter anyway..
 
Mark young just posted a article on T-nation about cardio that doesn't suck. some of my favs

jumping rope

track sprints

and one he doesnt mention hill sprints

cardio on equipment sucks, and is so boring. But if i do cardio IN ADDITION to my strength training. I get to eat more :) So i find fun ways to do it
 
haha, ya hill sprints would be killer for sure. i'm all about track sprints too. aside from swimming, finding a track and sprinting the straight part and walking the curved part was my favorite hiit method.

i would be with ya about being able to eat more. but i've lost all the weight i was trying to lose and now i've been in a muscle building phase for the past few months. i'm trying to gain weight and cause i'm lifting hard 5 days a week my metabolism is absolutely through the freakin roof. I don't do a lick of anything cardio related to burn calories and i was losing weight at 3000 calories a day... ugn. boo weights at times. :(

EDIT: I'm starting to feel more like a noob around here. haha. I'm thinking it's well known here that steady state is not good and that you guys are simply using the word "Cardio" to cover everything.. I'm reading through the stickies and everything i said is covered quite nicely. so my bad at ranting at cardio so much thinking you guys were referring to steady state.
 
Last edited:
Be clear, I'm not okay with saying "cardio" is not good for fat loss.

Now maybe it's a matter of contrast between my definition of cardio and yours.

In my world, cardio is any form of aerobic/cardiovascular training where some reasonably steady intensity is maintained for an extended period. We all know the fat burning zone is bunk. Shit, you burn the largest percentage of fat during complete rest, so why not rest to lose fat, right?

lol

But steady state cardio can be done at high degrees of intensity and the benefits are many.

I'm interested in seeing the specific studies you're referencing. And let it be clear... I am by no means anti-interval or anti-steady state. I'm a "use the tools that get the job done given each individual client" kind of guy. Blanket recommendations and phrases suck where I come from.

And that's why I take issue with your statement of, "steady state cardio sucks for fat loss," or whatever it is you said above. If it's a matter of definitions though, we can let it rest, as noted above.

The study that really flung HIIT into the limelight was Tremblay's 1994 paper... this is what most people bring up when discussing the benefits of HIIT.

A friend of mine who is in the industry too, put it best in his blog when he said the following: (see next post)
 
**************

high intensity interval training, or hiit for short, has been promoted as one of the most effective training methods ever to come down the pike, both for fat loss and for cardiovascular fitness. One of the most popular claims for hiit is that it burns “9 times more fat” than conventional (steady state) cardio. This figure was extracted from a study performed by angelo tremblay at laval university in 1994. But what if i told you that hiit has never been proven to be 9 times more effective than regular cardio… what if i told you that the same study actually shows that hiit is 5 times less effective than steady state cardio??? Read on and see the proof for yourself.


“there are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics.”

- mark twain

in 1994, a study was published in the scientific journal metabolism by angelo tremblay and his team from the physical activity sciences laboratory at laval university in quebec, canada. Based on the results of this study, you hear personal trainers across the globe claiming that “hiit burns 9 times more fat than steady state cardio.”

this claim has often been interpreted by the not so scientifically literate public as meaning something like this: If you burned 3 pounds of fat in 15 weeks on steady state cardio, you would now burn 27 pounds of fat in 15 weeks (3 lbs x 9 times better = 27 lbs).

Although it’s usually not stated as such, frankly, i think this is what some trainers want you to believe, because the programs that some trainers promote are based on convincing you of the vast superiority of hiit and the “uselessness” of low intensity exercise.

Indeed, higher intensity exercise is more effective and time efficient than lower intensity exercise. The question is, how much more effective? There’s no evidence that the “9 times more fat loss” claim is true outside the specific context in which it was mentioned in this study.

In order to get to the bottom of this, you have to read the full text of the research paper and you have to look very closely at the results.

13 men and 14 women age 18 to 32 started the study. They were broken into two groups, a high intensity intermittent training program (hiit) and a steady state training program which they referred to as endurance training (et).

The et group completed a 20 week steady state aerobic training program on a cycle ergometer 4 times a week for 30 minutes, later progressing to 5 times per week for 45 minutes. The initial intensity was 60% of maximal heart rate reserve, later increasing to 85%.

The hiit group performed 25-30 minutes of continuous exercise at 70% of maximal heart rate reserve and they also progressively added 35 long and short interval training sessions over a period of 15 weeks. Short work intervals started at 10 then 15 bouts of 15 seconds, increasing to 30 seconds. Long intervals started at 5 bouts of 60 seconds, increasing to 90 seconds. Intensity and duration were progressively increased over the 15 week period.

The results: 3 times greater fat loss in the hiit group

even though the energy cost of the exercise performed in the et group was twice as high as the hiit group, the sum of the skinfolds (which reflects subcutaneous body fat) in the hiit group was three times lower than the et group.

So where did the “9 times greater fat loss” claim come from?

Well, there was a difference in energy cost between groups, so in order to show a comparison of fat loss relative to energy cost, tremblay wrote,

“it appeared reasonable to correct changes in subcutaneous fat for the total cost of training. This was performed by expressing changes in subcutaneous skinfolds per megajoule of energy expended in each program.”

translation: The subjects did not lose 9 times more body fat, in absolute terms. But hey, 3 times more fat loss? You’ll gladly take that, right?

Well hold on, because there’s more.

Did you know that in this oft-quoted study, neither group lost much weight? In fact, if you look at the charts, you can see that the hiit group lost 0.1 kg (63.9 kg before, 63.8 kg after). Yes, the hiit group lost a whopping 100 grams of weight in 15 weeks!

The et group lost 0.5 kilograms (60.6 kg before, 60.1 kg after).

Naturally, lack of weight loss while skinfolds decrease could simply mean that body composition improved (lean mass increased), but i think it’s important to highlight the fact that the research study from which the “9 times more fat” claim was derived did not result in any significant weight loss after 15 weeks.

Based on these results, if i wanted to manipulate statistics to promote steady state cardio, i could go around telling people, “research study says steady state cardio (endurance training) results in 5 times more weight loss than high intensity interval training!” or the reverse, “clinical trial proves that high intensity interval training is 5 times less effective than steady state cardio!”

mind you, this is the same study that is most often quoted to support hiit!

If i said 5 x greater weight loss with steady state, i would be telling the truth, wouldn’t i? (100 grams of weight loss vs 500 grams?) of course, that would be misleading because the weight loss was hardly significant in either group, because it doesn’t distinguish between weight loss and body composition and because interval training is highly effective. I’m simply being a little facetious in order to make a point: Be careful with statistics. I have seen statistical manipulation used many times in other contexts to deceive unsuspecting consumers.

For example, advertisements for a popular fat burner claim that use of their supplement resulted in twice as much fat loss, based on scientific research. The claim was true. Of course, in the ad, they forget to tell you that after six months, the control group lost no weight, while the supplement group lost only 1.0 kilo. Whoop de doo! One kilo of weight loss after going through a six month supply of this “miracle fat burner!”

but i digress…

back to the hiit story – there’s even more to it.

more below....
 
************

In the ET group, there were some funky skinfold and circumference measurements. ALL of the skinfold measurements in the ET group either stayed the same or went down except the calf measurement, which went up.

The girths and skinfold measurements in the limbs went down in the HIIT group, but there wasn’t much difference between HIIT and ET in the trunk skinfolds. These facts are all very easy to miss. I didn’t even notice it myself until exercise physiologist Christian Finn pointed it out to me. Christian said,

“When you look at the changes in the three skinfold measurements taken from the trunk, there wasn’t that much difference between the steady state group (-6.3mm) and the HIIT group (-8.7 mm). So, much of the difference in subcutaneous fat loss between the groups wasn’t because the HIIT group lost more fat, but because the steady state group actually gained fat around the calf muscles. We shouldn’t discount simple measurement error as an explanation for these rather odd results.”

Christian also pointed out that the two test groups were not evenly matched for body composition at the beginning of the study. At the beginning of the study, the starting body fat based on skinfolds in the HIIT group was nearly 20% higher than the ET group. He concluded:

“So while this study is interesting, weaknesses in the methods used to track changes in body composition mean that we should treat the results and conclusions with some caution.”

One beneficial aspect of HIIT that most trainers forget to mention is that HIIT may actually suppress your appetite, while steady state cardio might increase appetite. In a study such as this, however, that can skew the results. If energy intake were not controlled, then some of the greater fat loss in the HIIT group could be due to lowered caloric intake.

Last but not least, I’d like to highlight the words of the researchers themselves in the conclusion of the paper, which confirms the effectiveness of HIIT, but also helps put it in perspective a bit:

“For a given level of energy expenditure, a high intensity training program induces a greater loss of subcutaneous fat compared with a training program of moderate intensity.”

“It is obvious that high intensity exercise cannot be prescribed for individuals at risk for health problems or for obese people who are not used to exercise. In these cases, the most prudent course remains a low intensity exercise program with a progressive increase in duration and frequency of sessions.”

In conclusion, my intention in writing this article wasn’t to be controversial, to be a smart-alec or to criticize HIIT. To the contrary, additional research has continued to support the efficacy of HIIT for fat loss and fitness, not to mention that it is one of the most time efficient ways to do cardiovascular training.

I have recommended HIIT for years in my Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle program, using a 1:1 long interval approach, which, while only one of many ways to do HIIT, is probably my personal favorite method. However, I also recommend steady state cardio and even low intensity cardio like walking, when it is appropriate.

My intentions for writing this article were four-fold:

1. To encourage you to question where claims come from, especially if they sound too good to be true.
2. To alert you to how advertisers might use research such as this to exaggerate with statistics
3. To encourage the fitness community to swing the pendulum back to center a bit, by not over-selling the benefits of HIIT beyond what can be supported by the scientific research
4. To encourage the fitness community, that even as they praise HIIT, not to condemn lower and moderate intensity forms of cardio.

As the original author of the 1994 HIIT study himself pointed out, HIIT is not for everyone, and cardio should be prescribed with progression. Also, mountains of other research has proven that walking (GASP! - low intensity cardio!) has always been one of the most successful exercise methods for overweight men and women.

There is ample evidence which says that obesity may be the result of a very slight daily energy imbalance, which adds up over time. Therefore, even a small amount of casual exercise or activity, if done consistently, and not compensated for with increased food intake, could reverse the obesity trend. HIIT gets the job done fast, but that doesn’t mean low intensity cardio is useless or that you should abandon your walking program, if you have the time and if that is what you enjoy and if that is what’s working for you in your personal situation.

The mechanisms and reasons why HIIT works so well are numerous and will have to wait for the next newsletter. It goes way beyond more calories burned during the workout.

Until then, train hard and expect success!

Said friend is Tom Venuto and you can find his blog .
 
Sweet, thanks for the reply. I knew of the trembley study, and I'll be honest that was where I got the upper end figure from. I never did look too far into it though, I really just read the abstract. I think I might need to start looking at things more in depth. I have also read a few of the other newer studies though like king, tabata, gibala which also lead me to hold firm my belief in hiit.

You asked for other studies, I wish I could provide right now. Way back when I was a research junkie I had it all bookmarked and everything. But my hdd crash of 06 lost it all. :( i'll see what i can dig up sometime this weekend. I need to do it anyway as i'm writing a paper for all my clients and I need references.

I'm pretty sure we are clashing terms with cardio. like i said in my edit.
 
No problem... it's all about the integrity of sound information. The moral of the story really is, if you don't mind me giving you advice, avoid absolute statements as much as possible in this industry.

It's such a diverse and dynamic field... absolutes will most always be knocked down.

I might also suggest, if you're interested in very good reading, checking out the following articles:

(I might add, I've been doing this a long time and I can promise you one thing... you're going to have a hard time finding better-researched guys than these two)
 
Back
Top