Too much CNS-intensive work can become very counterproductive for someone who has been in a prolonged hypocaloric atmosphere.
HITT explained
- Thread starter R.Lewis
- Start date
Okay let me clear this up. First of all I am not some meat head trying to start an argument. I am an educator and want to help the population get up to speed on where exercise physiology is. It is a sad state when most people get their knowledge from Muscle and Fiction or other pubs such as mens health. I am not saying that is where all of you get your knowledge but if you do I challenge you to read industry journals and books form places like the human kinetics catalogs. Now for HIIT (SIT) out performing steady state. If you examine human physiology from an evolutionary stand point you can begin to understand why this is the case. Lets do an analogy to further discuss this topic. If I were to lay out on a table a stack of 1 dollar bills, 5's, 10's, 20's, 50's and 100's and each stack had the same number of bills, then told you that you may have one of those stacks. I think just about everyone would choose the 100s. That is because is has the most value. That is the same case when you compare steady state to SIT. Yes there are a few benefits to steady state, but there are also many negatives. If you are going to spend time exercising why choose lesser value. If your goal is fat loss, or to improve fat free mass, or to slow the aging process, or prevent disease then you should always choose SIT over steady state. It wins in every category. Quite honestly there is not even a debate, the research is quite definitive on this. You don't hear it in mainstream because they are always behind science and because their motivation is money. If you want to read a great research literature review on the subject I suggest that you go to the links below.
I am not trying to promote these guys but they have some articles that do a good job of explaining the fundamentals.
I am not trying to promote these guys but they have some articles that do a good job of explaining the fundamentals.
First of all I would never as a practitioner put someone on an extremely reduced caloric diet. Even body builders do not need this. There are better and safer ways to promote extreme fat loss. Someone that is dieting would have a far more negative effect from steady state than HIIT due to the hormonal response.
When elevating stress hormones in the absence of growth hormones would be even more detrimental to those in caloric restriction. HIIT would be even better for that person because they could workout less and have more days for recovery. HIIT training can burn much fewer calries (some studies show 48% less caloric expenditure with HIIT but participates lost 4x the fat) but provide much more fat loss. Its still basic physiology, steady state creates a catabolic state where HIIT promotes an anabolic state. I cannot think of one person on the planet that would want to promote a state of destruction in their body.
When elevating stress hormones in the absence of growth hormones would be even more detrimental to those in caloric restriction. HIIT would be even better for that person because they could workout less and have more days for recovery. HIIT training can burn much fewer calries (some studies show 48% less caloric expenditure with HIIT but participates lost 4x the fat) but provide much more fat loss. Its still basic physiology, steady state creates a catabolic state where HIIT promotes an anabolic state. I cannot think of one person on the planet that would want to promote a state of destruction in their body.
So if you're bulking and want to do HIIT 2 times per week when should you do it?
I've heard not to do it the same day you lift because you risk overtraining and I've heard not to do it on off-days cause they should be used strictly for recovery...
So do HIIT after you lift or do it on the non-lifting days?
I've heard not to do it the same day you lift because you risk overtraining and I've heard not to do it on off-days cause they should be used strictly for recovery...
So do HIIT after you lift or do it on the non-lifting days?
im also interested in knowing that actually 'Tone'...
also, i have been told to stay clear of any cardio work whilst bulking...
but by doing HIIT it sounds like you burn fat over time, rather than just calories in one sitting?
would HIIT be good thing to include in any regieme, even bulking? -to keep fat levels as low as poss durin a bulk?
also, i have been told to stay clear of any cardio work whilst bulking...
but by doing HIIT it sounds like you burn fat over time, rather than just calories in one sitting?
would HIIT be good thing to include in any regieme, even bulking? -to keep fat levels as low as poss durin a bulk?
Whoa there bud.
Nobody is arguing. Stand by your statements and don't get your panties in a bunch. We are sticking to the topic at hand....
Not accusing you of being some meat head looking for a fight, lol.
Maybe in the gym atmosphere, this holds true.
In these forums... not so much. There are plenty of very knowledgeable, educated folks around here that spread the good word on a regular basis. And trust me, they are not pulling their info off the shelves of the grocery store.
Touche...
I'm responding as I read though your post.
You don't need to break this down to grade-school level discussion. I assure you we can handle big words. If you want to discuss physiology.... discuss physiology.
I mean christ, if you brought up the impacts of HIIT on things like insulin sensitivity or AMPK.... sure, maybe I'd respect what you're saying a bit more.
What you're doing though, is asinine. Making blanket statements like HIIT is always better than SS is just ridiculous. Weren't you taught back in grade school to stay away from making absolute statements.
A truly knowledgeable person understands that there is a time and a place for pretty much all modes of exercise, including lower intensity, steady state work.
Always, huh?
Just throwing it out there without adding any context to that recommendation?
And you educate people?
You have no concept of fatigue management, do you?
Yea, I'm trying to find where anyone mentioned this and I'm not seeing it.
I see things like "prolonged caloric deficit" and "reduced recoverability."
But nobody mentioned "extremely reduced caloric diet."
Don't tell me your reading comprehension is as lacking as the info in your posts.
It's funny. I know a few trainers who strictly coach figure competitors. Funnily enough, none of them would be battering their clients with high intensity stuff soon before a show.
But you completely ignore the idea of reduced recoverabability when dieting for prolonged periods of time and/or reaching the extreme ends of the bell curve with regards to low body fat levels.
Leptin.
It's a hormone.
Educate yourself on what happens in relation to it and other hormones downstream from it when in a prolonged hypocaloric state.
You are so silly with your absolutes.
A few positives but many negatives with steady state? ha!
Ashame you dont take pride in your english and paragraphs as you do with yoru health
Id like you hear some of you physiological reasons for why HIIt is better while steady state basically a waste of time - no baby talk i want proper terms!
The bold bit made no sense or is wrong. If steady state expended about 1000 kcals while HIIT 500kcals how could fat loss be far greater in HIIT, considering less calories AND the primarary fuel is carbs. Dont say EPOC because that wouldnt be near enough.
Can you please explain more to me about how to do HIIT?
I understand you do it no longer then 12mins. but what does it involve in that 12min....
It sounds great im really finding it hard to lose weight,I have lost 2kg in a month but for all the work i was putting it this was a bit of a put off...i really need to up my game.Can you please explain HIIT so i can add this into my workouts.Thanks.
First of all, people are so hyped up about HIIT when it comes to training - as compared to steady state cardio - primarily for 2 reasons . One , is that compared to steady state cardio, HIIT is a form of interval training ( that has been around for decades ) and interval training is one of the fastest ways to improve your cardio fitness. The second is that, compared to steady state cardio , it optimizes the burning of fat by your body after exercise.
However, when it comes to HIIT, " how to do it " isn't cast in stone IMO. Take the time of your work interval as an example. The work interval doesn't have to be 20 seconds or even even 30 seconds. The landmark study done up here in Canada ( Tremblay et. al ) that associated HIIT with optimal fat loss used rather short intervals ranging anywhere from 15- 30 seconds to much longer intervals ranging from 60 seconds to 90 seconds. Ditto for the rest interval. It can be 1 minute , or it can be longer ( depending on the work interval ). In the study I just mentioned, they let some rest intervals reach a lower threshold heart rate of 120 - 130 beats per minute. In this case, the rest interval lower threshold was the equivalent of about 65%MHR+/- for many of the subjects in the study. In terms of time, getting to this 120-130 beats per minute lower threshold heart rate could easily take anywhere from 1, 2 or 3 minutes of recovery - it varies.
But the key issue when it comes to HIIT is " high intensity ". That said, if you want a general rule to follow, I'd suggest you simply try go ' all out ' during the work intervals - go as hard as you can handle . Now if it is a 15-30 second work interval , you might hit 95% MHR - 90%+MHR going flat out. If you do longer intervals of 1 to 2 minutes ( as you were doing ) , continue to go hard, but you'll likely only be able to sustain something like 80% - 90% MHR. During your rest / recovery interval, you want to slow down to around 60+/-% of your MHR. If you have a heart monitor you can track this and then resume your work interval once your reach that level. Thing is, most of us don't train with heart rate monitors, so you'll have to opt for a simpler approach...such as a timed interval or one simply based on your perceived level of exertion ( i.e when you get most - but not all - of your breath back.)
One suggestion is to go 1 minute hard followed by 2 minutes of ' active ' ( i.e running instead of walking ) recovery. It's a simple 1:2 interval protocol I used when I did lactate threshold training for some of my hockey teams , but it is also is great for fat loss. There is a very reputable strength an conditioning coach named Alwyn Cosgrove who advocates a similar 1:2 protocol ( he calls it " Afterburn " advocating 1 minute hard and 2 minutes active recovery ) aimed directly at optmizing fat loss. So, you could try something like 1 minute on your treadmill at a much higher mph like 10 ,12+ mph, or 8 mph along with an incline of 6+/-...then recover by running at 4 or 5 mph for 2 minutes. If you're are still gasping for air after 2 minutes recovery, just keep recovering till you get almost all your breath back . That could be 2.5 minutes, 3 or 4 minutes, depending on your fitness level. Or ease up on your work interval so you can stick to the 1:2 protocol.
All I'm saying, is that there a lot of ways to structure a HIIT and how you go about it depends a lot on what your current fitness level is and what your goals are. You have to go thru some trial and error to see what works best for you.
Excellent.Thanks.I went to a spin class today(they use a lot of interval) and i cant believe how hard it is and i thought i was getting fitter..i actually find my legs get more tired then my heart rate lol.
Im keen to give this a go i must say i do find it hard to push myself which i think is why im not shredding the weight as fast(im ok doing 40mins on various exercise machines but going hard out gets me everytime).
Thanks for the info.
Im keen to give this a go i must say i do find it hard to push myself which i think is why im not shredding the weight as fast(im ok doing 40mins on various exercise machines but going hard out gets me everytime).
Thanks for the info.
Intervals scan be very humbling.
Don't worry though...your body will adapt ......and you'll seen results soon enough.
No worries....HIIT is usually very difficult...and everything you're experiencing is quite normal.
But, trust me...it'll get better.
No problem ...hope it helped.
Well, cutting / shredding fat is all about losing calories.
If your goal is to use cardio to help shred fat, and you only have 30 minutes to do cardio, doing 30 minutes of HIIT is likely going to burn more calories overall than doing 30 minutes of low to moderate intensity steady state cardio. So, since HIIT burns the most calories of the 2 options, HIIT is the better choice to help you lose fat in the most efficient manner.
Now, does 30 minutes of HIIT burn more calories than high intensity, flat out as hard as you can 30 minutes of steady state cardio ? Maybe, maybe not. But again, if you didn't want to do HIIT at all for some reason, and you only wanted to 30 minutes of some kind of steady state cardio, then do 30 minutes of steady state cardio as hard as you can - as it burns the most calories.
btw - how many weeks are you allocating to this ' cutting ' phase ?