hit em hard!!!
- Thread starter slim jim
- Start date
This is a question ive heard from martial artists and boxers for years.
1, your biceps only help with accuracy in a punch.
2, you triceps extend your arm, they need to be strong,
3, your pecks bring your arms to the front, they need to be strong
4, your delts lift your arms, they need to be strong
5, your core twists you torso,
6, your pelvis moves your waist,
7, your legs conect you to the ground,
8, Half your energy comes from the ground.
To pack a better punch,
1, practise on a heavy bag, speed ball, air and spar with partner
2, build muscle.
You use half the muscles in your body to punch, and the other half to return from a punch, I suggest you stop trying to find a short cut. Practise and train like the rest of us, there is no short cut.
1, your biceps only help with accuracy in a punch.
2, you triceps extend your arm, they need to be strong,
3, your pecks bring your arms to the front, they need to be strong
4, your delts lift your arms, they need to be strong
5, your core twists you torso,
6, your pelvis moves your waist,
7, your legs conect you to the ground,
8, Half your energy comes from the ground.
To pack a better punch,
1, practise on a heavy bag, speed ball, air and spar with partner
2, build muscle.
You use half the muscles in your body to punch, and the other half to return from a punch, I suggest you stop trying to find a short cut. Practise and train like the rest of us, there is no short cut.
Should probably work on single arm strength and try to stay OFF benches... (unless you plan on punching someone laying on your back 
)... Try exercises like a Single Arm Cable Press, Single Arm SB Chest Press, Push Press Low to High, etc... Get that single arm strength up, and then start adding in more total body exercises like a Lunge to a Single Arm Press on the Cable Column or just even simulating punching on a Cable Column (but don't go for speed right away, focus on controlling your arm... proper form is going to give you a proper punch).
)... Try exercises like a Single Arm Cable Press, Single Arm SB Chest Press, Push Press Low to High, etc... Get that single arm strength up, and then start adding in more total body exercises like a Lunge to a Single Arm Press on the Cable Column or just even simulating punching on a Cable Column (but don't go for speed right away, focus on controlling your arm... proper form is going to give you a proper punch).gymcoch said:
No way!!!! Unless you are acctually swinging a bat!
DeX said:
No way again!!!!
You need to bench heavy so your torso can learn to support massive amounts of weight. The hevyest weight you can bench press should be less than the total power of you punch at impact. When you bench you are training for the moment your fist makes contact.
As a martial artist of 12yrs who has also studied the body, weight training and engineering I can tell you that you punch have more velocity only by improving speed, mass and stability on impact.
You cant change how heavy you are enough to improve you punch, but stronger muscles improve the speed you move and stability on impact. This is why to need to train you body to work together with compound movements. Bench press, chins up, squats, dead lift etc...
um, I said PICTURE someone swinging a bat, not to go and swing a bat.
You yourself wrote:
"5, your core twists you torso,
6, your pelvis moves your waist,
7, your legs conect you to the ground,
8, Half your energy comes from the ground."
all of which needs the training of the core by means of rotation and increased leg strength
You yourself wrote:
"5, your core twists you torso,
6, your pelvis moves your waist,
7, your legs conect you to the ground,
8, Half your energy comes from the ground."
all of which needs the training of the core by means of rotation and increased leg strength
Bench press isn't a compound movement... Also, doing bench presses isn't the greatest because of the bar (more stability) also, the bench is getting a majority of the support, not your torso... It's like the high schooler football players I have to re-condition... they have a big bench, but when it comes to football, they get ran over because there's not a bench on the football field for them to press off of... And last time I checked, there isn't a bench in boxing/martial arts...manofkent said:
Bench will be good to get basic strength, but to hit harder, you need to work ALL the muscles to work together and strengthen together to hit harder... Doing stuff off the bench is going to teach your body to be the bench... like gymcoach said... need to work the core... so teach the core, your arms, legs, etc... to work together, rather than just being able to have a big bench press...
Dumbbells is probably the way you'd want to train just for the fact that you have to control the movement of the dumbbell, so you're going to gain a lot more stability/strength in your arm/shoulders... If you can't control your arms, how are you going to hit your target? That's where if you did like a Stability Ball Chest Press, you're going to work your core a heck of a lot more than the bench, and then using Dumbbells and still working on chest strength, as well as arm/shoulder stability...
meh
I know 30% of a punch comes from the arm, the rest comes mostly form your legs. Sit down in a chair with your back against it, now, without letting you shoulder blades come off the chair, punch. Now punch again and let your shoulder blades come off the chair. Now stand up and punch as hard as you can. Notice how significantly more destructive your punch is when you can use your legs and core. Tyson and Hollyfield have 15 inch arms and ridiculously large waists, can't remember the measurements.
Don't disreguard biceps, a muscle can only contract as fast as the opposite muscle can control it for fear of hyperextension. This means you tricep can only fire as fast as your bicep can lock it out.
If you want a hard punch you'll build it with on a heavy bag. Practice punching and staying as loose at possible, let the fist travel thru the air like a rock on a rope, there is nothing holding it back, then, at the point of contact tighten ur whole body and punch past the target. This is most important, not, a heavy bench press or isolation tricep pull downs. If you're looking for exercises to help, research Full Kontact Twist and Windmill.
I know 30% of a punch comes from the arm, the rest comes mostly form your legs. Sit down in a chair with your back against it, now, without letting you shoulder blades come off the chair, punch. Now punch again and let your shoulder blades come off the chair. Now stand up and punch as hard as you can. Notice how significantly more destructive your punch is when you can use your legs and core. Tyson and Hollyfield have 15 inch arms and ridiculously large waists, can't remember the measurements.
Don't disreguard biceps, a muscle can only contract as fast as the opposite muscle can control it for fear of hyperextension. This means you tricep can only fire as fast as your bicep can lock it out.
If you want a hard punch you'll build it with on a heavy bag. Practice punching and staying as loose at possible, let the fist travel thru the air like a rock on a rope, there is nothing holding it back, then, at the point of contact tighten ur whole body and punch past the target. This is most important, not, a heavy bench press or isolation tricep pull downs. If you're looking for exercises to help, research Full Kontact Twist and Windmill.
DeX said:
A compund exersise is any exersise that involves more than one joint. Bench press is a compound exersise.
DeX said:
yes the bench it taking the weight, but the bar does not touch the bench. What does??? Oh yes, You. 100% of the force is traveling thru your body. this teaches your shoulders to be stable on impact. you train your torso with power liftin exersises.
There is if your pushed against a wall, witch is something we train offen.DeX said:
DeX said:
1, working all the muscle together is what ive siad all along, read my 1st 2 posts.
2, yes bench will be good for strength, thats what the guy wanted to know. And strength, mass and skill together will make you hit harder.
But yes, dumbells are the way to go.
MIKE yes heavy bag is best for punching hard, as I said in my first post.
MIKE SAID - This means you tricep can only fire as fast as your bicep can lock it out.
Thats terrible, where did you get that from. Your tricep can fire your arm out as fast as it likes, the bicep is there to STOP IT FROM LOCKING OUT.
If you locked out your arm you wouldnt have hit anyone. there would be no room for extention penitrating the body.
I'm going to tackle this from a different perspective-you'll want faster engagement of the type II fibers. High velocity/acceleration movements will be your friend.
Push pressing and jerking would be a much better movement than bench pressing. But really...spend more time working on your punching. Sport or activity specific is just that-practicing teh activity and it's the only way to get better at it.
Push pressing and jerking would be a much better movement than bench pressing. But really...spend more time working on your punching. Sport or activity specific is just that-practicing teh activity and it's the only way to get better at it.
Evo is right.
you need three things
1st is body position - from practise
2nd is acceleration - from type 2 muscle fiber training
3rd is mass and stability for impact - from mass bulding training + compound lifting.
without body possition you can't use strength.
without acceleration/speed and mass, you dont have velocity.
People say you dont have to be big to hit hard. Which is true, but being big does help a lot. Once you have got to a stage in your training, its easyer to put on weight and gain velocity in your punch, than to get anybetter in another area.
you need three things
1st is body position - from practise
2nd is acceleration - from type 2 muscle fiber training
3rd is mass and stability for impact - from mass bulding training + compound lifting.
without body possition you can't use strength.
without acceleration/speed and mass, you dont have velocity.
People say you dont have to be big to hit hard. Which is true, but being big does help a lot. Once you have got to a stage in your training, its easyer to put on weight and gain velocity in your punch, than to get anybetter in another area.
manofkent said:
Yea, your tricep does extend the arm. The bicep is used to keep it from hyperextending. You won't be able to fire your tricep faster than your bicep can stop it, it's not terrible, its just a reflex.
Also, if you want a press that involves the core, do the bent press or standing military press. But punching strenght won't be made with a pressing motion.
before I keep repeating myself over and over, I'd really like to know where you guys are getting this info. I have only been weight training for 2 years, but I have been training in martial arts for 13years.
Ive trained with Steve Row from Ski Kon Karate Do, Willy Lim from the Beijing Wu Shu Academy, Dave Arnold from Beijing Quan fa Academy and Steve Martin from Shi Zen Do.
All have told me that if I was to do strength training, I need to bench press to learn the correct punshing posture for the arm and shoulder at impact.
Obv, they agree to work every muscle in the body, not just one area. but bench press is very important.
Ive trained with Steve Row from Ski Kon Karate Do, Willy Lim from the Beijing Wu Shu Academy, Dave Arnold from Beijing Quan fa Academy and Steve Martin from Shi Zen Do.
All have told me that if I was to do strength training, I need to bench press to learn the correct punshing posture for the arm and shoulder at impact.
Obv, they agree to work every muscle in the body, not just one area. but bench press is very important.
Bench press is fine for increasing strength. But the correct posture in bench is not the same as you would in jabbing or crossing or hooking or etc. Considering the shoulder blades are retracted in benching but they are not in punching.
Also, there is typically a much wider grip in benching than there is in punching, the problem then is that the natural motion or movement pattern of punching is not the same as it is in benching. What we're looking for when considering functional movements is that it has very specific carry over in terms of velocity, motor patterns, etc etc
Just because your mentors might be exceptional martial artists does not mean that they are exceptional strength trainers.
Again, I'm not discouting the benefit of bench press because a stronger athlete is usually a better athlete but the bench is way over-touted as the be-all-end-all in my opinion. It's pretty much the same argument with football players and other athletes when it comes to the oly lifts and their being what every ball player should be doing.
Also, there is typically a much wider grip in benching than there is in punching, the problem then is that the natural motion or movement pattern of punching is not the same as it is in benching. What we're looking for when considering functional movements is that it has very specific carry over in terms of velocity, motor patterns, etc etc
Just because your mentors might be exceptional martial artists does not mean that they are exceptional strength trainers.
Again, I'm not discouting the benefit of bench press because a stronger athlete is usually a better athlete but the bench is way over-touted as the be-all-end-all in my opinion. It's pretty much the same argument with football players and other athletes when it comes to the oly lifts and their being what every ball player should be doing.
So from what you're telling me is that you are able to press just as much weight doing a cable column chest press as a bench press?! You're right, the force is traveling THROUGH you to the bench... It's known as "equal and opposite force"... as you press the weights up the weights are fighting back down.. so the weights lets say are pushing down 100 pounds of force, you have to push back 100 pounds of force... BUT the force is going through you and you are pushing off the bench, basically you're body is just a catalyst...manokent said:
Just like evo and everyone has been saying, you need to train your body to what you want it to do... because like 1quick1 said, his instructor is a great hitter, even though 1quick1 is stronger... it's okay to do the basic chest press as basic strengthening, but you need to get away from training like a bodybuilder... because martial arts isnt' body building, because if it was, then you'd see the world's strongest men competitors fighting (which would be funny to see)...
For the most part I'm going to guess that gymcoach, evo, etc.. get their resources from their certifications and experience... Just look at what you're trying to do... You're trying to punch, so you need to practice punching... not laying on your back pressing a weight up and down....
Key word is "at impact"... think of where your body is at impact... is your back flat and you're just pressing out your arm? No.. hip is rotated, torso twisted to the side of the arm punching... You have the right idea, but start thinking outside the box... How do golfers get good? they practice their swing (with some basic strengthening)... just like marital arts, how do you punch harder, practice punching.... and that's where you can basically punch with resistance using the cable column and get more 'bang for your buck' rather than doing isolation exercises...
You got the compleatly wrong Idea about what I'm saying.
Read my other posts.
"1st is body position - from practise
2nd is acceleration - from type 2 muscle fiber training
3rd is mass and stability for impact - from mass bulding training + compound lifting.
without body possition you can't use strength.
without acceleration/speed and mass, you dont have velocity."
Im not saying you just need to bench press, I'm saying that the bench press is a usefull tool to teach your body to take lots of pressure.
It is one of the many ways to improve your punching power.
Dex said - "think of where your body is at impact... is your back flat and you're just pressing out your arm? No.. hip is rotated, torso twisted to the side of the arm punching"
It depends how your punching. your talking about a very basic style of punch. In Wing chun they use chain punches very offen. This type of puch is compleated with the back flat.
Plus as with any punch, it should not land whist the hip is twisted. Your hips should be inline with your legs by the time the punch lands. Getting power from your hips is a very basic style of punching that many martial artists move on from after 6-10years.
Read my other posts.
"1st is body position - from practise
2nd is acceleration - from type 2 muscle fiber training
3rd is mass and stability for impact - from mass bulding training + compound lifting.
without body possition you can't use strength.
without acceleration/speed and mass, you dont have velocity."
Im not saying you just need to bench press, I'm saying that the bench press is a usefull tool to teach your body to take lots of pressure.
It is one of the many ways to improve your punching power.
Dex said - "think of where your body is at impact... is your back flat and you're just pressing out your arm? No.. hip is rotated, torso twisted to the side of the arm punching"
It depends how your punching. your talking about a very basic style of punch. In Wing chun they use chain punches very offen. This type of puch is compleated with the back flat.
Plus as with any punch, it should not land whist the hip is twisted. Your hips should be inline with your legs by the time the punch lands. Getting power from your hips is a very basic style of punching that many martial artists move on from after 6-10years.