Hey, guru.....

Steve

Member
Staff member
I have to go off on a bit of a rant here.

Lately, there’s been an influx of “gurus” pouring into WLF and their advice, well….. stinks.

First let me say I’m all for keeping an open mind and hearing people out. But when this advice doesn’t match, nor is it applicable to the recipient, the advice sucks no matter the soundness of the information.

And the kicker is, the information they’re giving sucks to boot. It’s a double whammy of nonsense.

I’m sure people who don’t know me well enough or aren’t versed in the same information I am versed in think I’m not open to anyone’s advice that isn’t my own. That couldn’t be further from the truth however. There have been members here on this very forum whose advice I’ve welcomed. The fact is, the barrier to entry for the gurus that plague the interwebz is non-existent. Anyone can join a forum and act as an authority.

As a rule of thumb, here is are a few things I’d be on the watch for when it comes to Internet Fitness Allstars:

1. Information and advice is always up for challenge/debate when posted on this medium of communication. The moment one gets their panties in a wad simply b/c a member challenges their advice or beliefs is the moment one proves their incompetence and inability to reason with logic.

2. The guru plays the assumption that everything is just "different points of view" and not that people can actually be wrong.

3. Ironically, the guru's "knowledge" often leads to an amazing short-sightedness, and thus the bro-science and hasty assumptions and generalizations made on inaccurate and incomplete knowledge become their singular path of focus and thought leading to very shallow and applicable advice.

If you aren’t well versed or read in a particular subject, don’t pretend like you are. Sure, it might feel good for a while but eventually your bullshit will be called and you’re left looking like a fool. It’s hard for me to believe that gurus expect to get a lot of mileage out of deceiving people.

And a special note to the dense: I sure as shit am not saying I'm always right. I actually welcome criticism and opposing viewpoints.

The issue is, most think they’re educated when they’re not. Research for most of these gurus has been what they’ve read on the Internet. What the fuck is that? Regurgitating unfounded opinions is far from offering solid, applicable advice where I come from. You can call it what you want, but if it smells like shit, you’re going to have to do a lot better of a job with making me believe it’s a rose than simply saying, “I’m smarter than you,” or, “I research a lot.”

Prove to me that you know the basics of physiology, biomechanics, thermodynamics, biochemistry, etc, etc. Prove to me that you have read AND comprehended a book or two. And most importantly, if the knowledge is actually there, apply it appropriately. Being a good trainer doesn’t come from a text book.

It’s not the fact that these guys (and girls) like to say things like, “Steve, if you researched as much as me you might have a leg to stand on.” That’s just funny to me. I don’t care if they’re 10 times more intelligent and well versed than me, to be honest.

What irks me is the fact that they’re so stuck in their own little mental prisons of obscurity that they could and would never think to stop for a second when someone questions them on the advice they’re providing, and actually think. The consideration that they might be misinformed doesn’t exist. They’re too busy with their self-indulged journey to internet stardom to realize that the gullibility of the masses isn’t a sign of their own efficacy or knowledge.

This trap of ignorance is all too common. I mean, heaven forbid someone actually use their brain for something other than stroking an ego to feel important. Critical thinking and analysis. What’s that? Logic? Never heard of it.

I say this time and time again around here, I should put it in my signature line……

The key point is, being forced to defend your beliefs will either 1) reinforce them or 2) create doubt, in which case you reassess and either go back to 1) or you learn something. In any event, being questioned and forced into validation can only lead to a positive outcome in my world.

If you can't think in those terms and act purely to indulge your ego, sure, I understand the need to transform what should otherwise be a well-reasoned discussion/debate into something it’s not; a personal attack. Hiding behind fallacious appeals leads to contentment for some, I suppose.

A classic example would be a guru coming in here and, without even investigating one’s objective and subjective lifestyle factors and history, start spitting advice straight from bodybuilding.com. I mean, it’s cool if that’s where you get your information….. but advice is only worth it’s applicability to the recipient of said advice.

Sure, keep saying things like, “I’ve studied more than you” or “Steve, you’re just arrogant and offer zero advice.” It might help to expand your repertoire from "ignorance" and "being categorically unable to respond to anything with reason and substance" to something like "qualified" and "informative" if you want to take the smug and superior route.
 
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bro-science
Despite this being a seriousish rant I still find that word amusing. More on topic do you think there's a more female oriented equivalent to it and if so is it just as prevalent and problematic?

Everything, everyone says on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt, or at least thoroughly investigated. You and Mal and Leigh at least provide references and backup for your statements, things that link to information we can use to verify what you say and none of you pretend to be what you aren't.

I'm less concerned I suppose with all the new gurus popping up ( becuase you guys seem to tag them quickly) than I am worried that it's personally hard to identify them and I'd rather not be getting potentially harmfull advice.
 
I'm less concerned I suppose with all the new gurus popping up ( becuase you guys seem to tag them quickly) than I am worried that it's personally hard to identify them and I'd rather not be getting potentially harmfull advice.
they're usually pretty easy to spot - generally with a link in their signature :)
 
Despite this being a seriousish rant I still find that word amusing.

It's a funny one.... but very true. Too many people take what they hear as fact without further investigation. And in the gurus case, they hold on to it for dear life as their safety net to prove their efficacy that it becomes their realm of thought. What abilities they had drown in this fact.

More on topic do you think there's a more female oriented equivalent to it and if so is it just as prevalent and problematic?

Well when you strip it down, all "It" really is, is ignorance. And as we know, ignorance has no boundaries. It's really ignorance coupled with deceit to make a buck most often.

Everything, everyone says on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt, or at least thoroughly investigated. You and Mal and Leigh at least provide references and backup for your statements, things that link to information we can use to verify what you say and none of you pretend to be what you aren't.

It's those who have to explain what they are ("I'm a trainer" or "I'm a researcher") that most often give cause for concern.

There have been members here who I didn't necessarily agree with all the time, but whom I definitely would listen to b/c their intent was solely based around the integrity of information and you could tell they spent time furthering their knowledge beyond what they read on the net. If they thought something, and were called on it, they took a step back and re-evaluated their stance.

Wrangell and Exercisephysio ring a bell.
 
It's those who have to explain what they are ("I'm a trainer" or "I'm a researcher") that most often give cause for concern.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the "Dr." title as well.

Do a little research and you generally find their "doctorate" was awarded by some on-line degree mill not recognized by any State for $49.
 
Oh yeah, and let's not forget the "Dr." title as well.

Do a little research and you generally find their "doctorate" was awarded by some on-line degree mill not recognized by any State for $49.

Exactly, that too....

There was a Dr. who I made look like a fool not too long ago. When you did a search on her "doctorate," it was from some joke of a snake-oil-selling school. All smoke and mirrors. But she was willing to "help me understand" the larger words she was using.

She's since been back to check my response, yet hasn't posted since.

People who operate with this deceit don't know how to respond to reality, truth, and knowledge.

Speaking of Drs, are you a doc, Doc? Not to lump you in with that crowd of sycophants.
 
Steve, you’re just arrogant and offer zero advice.

I know.

But I can pretend I'm better than that. And if I say it to be so, it must be so.... right? At least that's how I think it works if I'm understanding the guru-mentality correctly.
 
i don't listen to anyone with 2 posts to their name on this board....thats how i roll though.

You could be missing out on valuable information though.

By their standards at least.

The new one is actually upset b/c the site won't allow his link. "But," he says, "I have great advice to offer."

So far its been, "you must eat 5-6 meals per day," and "fasted cardio is teh best!111!!!1"

What the fuck is the forum for?

Offer your Allstar Trainer information here.

Prove your competence and maybe we'll allow your site to be linked.
 
You could be missing out on valuable information though.

By their standards at least.

The new one is actually upset b/c the site won't allow his link. "But," he says, "I have great advice to offer."

So far its been, "you must eat 5-6 meals per day," and "fasted cardio is teh best!111!!!1"

What the fuck is the forum for?

Offer your Allstar Trainer information here.

Prove your competence and maybe we'll allow your site to be linked.
i totally agree, and ya i saw that post and instantly thought....i hope sieve writes on this one....and what do you know, you were the nest post down.

lol
 
Fasted cardio is best though. For everyone, in every situation, all of the time.

Hey why don't you go back to the Hater's Ball and win another lifetime achievement award, hater!

If we're being fair though, according to my notion of fairness of course, you'd have to start in on the people who swing the other way, and they do tend be legion on boards like this. Y'know, the "No mention of anything 'advanced' ever because it must be bullshit and I mock you for even considering it" types. Not that they're even ballpark in terms of the dissemination of bad information, just sayin' it's the other side of the coin for me.

Oh noes I just realized I'm a guru. :p
 
I'll add Focus to the list too, not that my intent is to create a list of the knowledgable folk around here. Far from actually. I just want to make the point that I don't go around giving all people who offer advice a hard time.

Focus has a good head on his shoulders, doesn't claim to be something he's not, and you can tell he's done some homework outside of the net in terms of building a foundation of knowledge.

He also understands the importance of logic and rationalism.

Hey why don't you go back to the Hater's Ball and win another lifetime achievement award, hater!

I don't have room on my shelf for another one, or I would.

If we're being fair though, according to my notion of fairness of course, you'd have to start in on the people who swing the other way, and they do tend be legion on boards like this. Y'know, the "No mention of anything 'advanced' ever because it must be bullshit and I mock you for even considering it" types. Not that they're even ballpark in terms of the dissemination of bad information, just sayin' it's the other side of the coin for me.

For some reason, they don't bother me as much. It's the deceit that really gets to me and the side of the coin you speak of isn't trying to be deceitful in my eyes.
 
Hey look! a thread about me! :D

I give out advice from what ive learnt, but im always happy to admit if im wrong, especially to Steve, though if my opinion differs ill argue it.
I know what you mean about these guys coming on here acting like they know it all, if they were interested in actually helping people, then it would be all good, but most are just interested in 'looking cool' or getting linkbacks to their website.

If somebody genuinely tries to help for the right reasons i would be a whole lot more welcoming if they were wrong than if they were just trying to go for e-penis enlargement.
 
Hey look! a thread about me! :D

I give out advice from what ive learnt, but im always happy to admit if im wrong,

Yea, and I don't take issue with that AT ALL.

You've accomplished a lot personally, you've been around the block, and you definitely deserve the right to speak your mind and opinion and offer advice. Everyone does actually.

But if you're called on something that I might take in contention, you don't call me a big meanie head, turn it into a competition, or become an emotional train wreck.

I know what you mean about these guys coming on here acting like they know it all, if they were interested in actually helping people, then it would be all good, but most are just interested in 'looking cool' or getting linkbacks to their website.

Exactly.

If somebody genuinely tries to help for the right reasons i would be a whole lot more welcoming if they were wrong than if they were just trying to go for e-penis enlargement.

Uhhh, the e-penis enlargement. I think that company spams my inbox frequently!

:p
 
For some reason, they don't bother me as much. It's the deceit that really gets to me and the side of the coin you speak of isn't trying to be deceitful in my eyes.

Well when you put it that way it's easy to agree, not that I was disagreeing.

They're definitely not as much of a problem. There's also a bit of a difference in our views too with regard to the nature of the problem and what is being impacted. I guess as someone who's been around this sort of thing for a long time I've settled on the reasoning that if you can't tell the difference between sound advice complete with logical argumentation and random bullshit, that you deserve to be misled. And that it's not my responsibility to hammer into your mind the difference between the two. Which is why you'll often see me simply make my point and walk away from an argument, regardless of how sure I am that I would "win" it. :p

Which is callous, I know, but after a while I got tired of making the same arguments for people who don't even have the vague understanding of subjunctive logic necessary to comprehend the distinction. And what's worse, for me, who don't even make the attempt to learn the difference. No questions asked, merely an indifferent (or ambivalent I suppose) "Oh, well, both sides are making good points". But the thing is, both sides are not making good points. Not if the metrics are rationality and scientific merit. So what I'm saying is my concern at times is more for the purity of knowledge than the people involved, if we're being totally honest.

You on the other hand seem quite protective of your "flock" (I guess I'd call it - I like shepherd analogies) in addition to the above, and remarkably lacking in the jaded perspective I've noticed is common to "knowledgeable" individuals in almost any field. Which I imagine is why they love you so much around here. ;)
 
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I respect that post a lot, man.

And I understand you're perspective completely. It does get old. Real old.

As corny as it sounds..... for me, this is my primary passion.... helping and reaching people in relation to their health pursuits. With the 'mood' of the marketplace, confusion and frustration is pretty much a guarantee for those who aren't well versed in this stuff. Communities like this really make a difference in my mind for those who are willing to spend the time to listen, learn, and hopefully get the urge to do some of their own research, as they tend to slice through the bullshit out there.

When you mix my passion with the deceitfulness of those who venture into these sort of communities claiming expert-status, I tend to lash out.... irrationally at times I admit.

And in truth, at times I'm sure the deceit isn't purposeful. There's those that truly believe they have all "the answers" and their intent is good. My main point of contention beyond the deceit though, is the fact that the internet has brought about a new breed of "professionals" who spend more time ego stroking than they do solidifying the fact that they are "professional" without doing what's required to live up to that title.

I know I don't need to explain myself too, as you "get it."
 
hah only a dozen? you must be using the wrong brand! i have a much better brand that will only cost you (20000 easy payments of) $1.99 !
 
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