Help with new weight training programme

[RhoRho]

Hello, I'd be very grateful for input from experts. I started working out at the gym around 3 months ago, and every few weeks I get one of the gym personal trainers to set me up a new weight training plan. For the first month, this was my plan:

Leg Press - 3sets of 12 reps
Lat Pulldown - 3 sets of 12 reps
Chest Press - 3 sets of 12 reps
Shoulder Press - 3 sets of 12 reps
Tricep Pushdown - 3 sets of 12 reps
Bicep Curl - 3 sets of 12 reps

The plan for the second period was:

S/B squats/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Lat raises/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Inclined chest press/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Bent over row/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Lying tricep extensions/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Hammer curls/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
My newest programme, given to me on Sunday, is as follows:

Leg Press 60kg/ No rest/ Lat Pulldown 20kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Inclined chest press 6kg/ No rest/ Bent over row 20kg/30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Squats with dumbbells 3kg/ No rest/ Shoulder Press 4kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Lying tricep extensions 4kg/ No rest/ Lat raises 3kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Bicep curls 30lbs/ No rest/ Tricep pushdown 35lbs/ No rest/ Hammer curls 5kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. total of 3 sets (12 reps each)

Now I'm a little worried about this new programme. I wonder if it's a little too intense. I mean, I tried it out today for the first time, and even though I completed it all I sort of felt I was beating myself up unnecessarily. I'm concerned that the personal trainer has simply given me a more difficult workout, but not necessarily more effective. I guess what I want to know is whether I'm overworking muscle groups, and if such double everything is really necessary (I don't know if I'm being cynical but the new workout seems to be a combination of the previous two). I'm not a stranger to hard work at the gym, so if the experts tell me that's the way to go then I'll get right down to it, but I'd rather be sure before I do myself a mischief.. Oh, and I weight train 2 to 3 times a week, coupled with cardio 3 to 4 times a week, and I usually hike during the weekend for between 4 and 9 hours at a time.

I wold very much appreciate your input

 

[RhoRho]

Actually the more I look at this new workout programme, the more uncomfortable I get with it. For one, I was looking for a natural progression from machines to free weights, from simple exercises to more compound ones. But the new one seems to have me back on the machines. Aside from the practical implications (i.e. people occupying the machines) I don't know - it feels like I'm going back rather than progressing.. Machines lock you into an unnatural plane of movement, I remember someone saying on this site, and it stuck with me. I've read enough about training to know that compound exercises are the way to go. I was more hoping for a range of free-weight exercises that hit the whole body quickly, not single exercises that take ages to complete.

My end aims are still weight loss and muscle maintenance. The weight loss is steady and I'm not afraid of weight training, but this just seems overmuch...

 

[theleip]

Hi Rho,

What you trainer has decided to do here is set you up on a superset/circuit style training system. What these means basically is exercise performed back to back with no rest and short rest bouts between sets.

There is nothing wrong with this style of training, I use it on a good deal of my clients. That being said only IF it is a good program of supersets and this one is not.

There are many styles of supersetting that you can use, but really I think where you are at right now it is just to tricky and not needed. I like to use a superset program style more for that 'stubborn' last to lose area.

I have to run, but tonight I will post up a few alternatives to your workout plan. You can go over them with your training and have a smart angle in which to discuss it with them. If they don't want to play ball then you can go it on your own

 

[RhoRho]

Thanks Leigh, for your response.

I don't mind this circuit type of training either - it's just the exercises themselves that I was concerned about. I always operated under the impression that I would progress from machines to free weights, but with the new programme I'm dependent on machines again.

I really look forward to seeing your suggested alternatives, cos I really want something that works for me, not the trainer I'm more than prepared to go it on my own if they don't want to play ball. But hopefully, once I show them new suggested exercises, they'll be keen to help me achieve my goals..

Thanks again Leigh..

 

[Blancita]

My newest programme, given to me on Sunday, is as follows:

Leg Press 60kg/ No rest/ Lat Pulldown 20kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Inclined chest press 6kg/ No rest/ Bent over row 20kg/30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Squats with dumbbells 3kg/ No rest/ Shoulder Press 4kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Lying tricep extensions 4kg/ No rest/ Lat raises 3kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Bicep curls 30lbs/ No rest/ Tricep pushdown 35lbs/ No rest/ Hammer curls 5kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. total of 3 sets (12 reps each)

Now I'm a little worried about this new programme. I wonder if it's a little too intense. I mean, I tried it out today for the first time, and even though I completed it all I sort of felt I was beating myself up unnecessarily. I'm concerned that the personal trainer has simply given me a more difficult workout, but not necessarily more effective. I guess what I want to know is whether I'm overworking muscle groups, and if such double everything is really necessary (I don't know if I'm being cynical but the new workout seems to be a combination of the previous two). I'm not a stranger to hard work at the gym, so if the experts tell me that's the way to go then I'll get right down to it, but I'd rather be sure before I do myself a mischief.. Oh, and I weight train 2 to 3 times a week, coupled with cardio 3 to 4 times a week, and I usually hike during the weekend for between 4 and 9 hours at a time.

I wold very much appreciate your input

First a disclaimer that I'm not an expert but I've worked out with weights for the past 14 years and consequently have my own personal experiences to call upon.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but most of these do indeed look like free weight exercises and where not, free weight exercises can easily be substituted though I wouldn't agree its necessary considering the exercises your doing on the machines. Its true that you feel it a lot more from free weights in most cases. But the lat pull down machine, for example, is to me like a free weight exercise. It tends to be used by people who normally steer clear of the wimpyish circuit training machines and I think its a very good exercise that should be continued. The triceps push down, if done on the cables, is also a machine that tends to be used by experienced lifters and to me no worse or better than doing tri exercises using DBs or a bar. I think variety in your exercises is great so the more variation the better. I agree that the leg press isn't that effective, at least for me its never worked me that hard so I dont find it so great. But the other exercises all look like free weight exercises to me so maybe we're getting lost in translation here.

As far as the lack of rest periods in between, I agree with Leigh that there's no need to go that route at this point. You just started and dont need to go to extremes mixing things up. It is very hard and tiring to keep going with no rest while lifting heavy.

With regard to supersetting, I must say I had a lot of success some years back doing supersets like chest then back, tris then bis, etc.

I feel like, aside from the program not giving you much rest periods in between which can be ass kicking in itself, you can just adjust the weights down if you find the program too hardcore for you. Personally I find when I'm really exhausted like that and feeling quite sore, I have gotten extremely good and fast results.

I'm also not sure your program needs changing every 4 weeks, more like 12 weeks.

 

[Trevor M.]

Hello, I'd be very grateful for input from experts. I started working out at the gym around 3 months ago, and every few weeks I get one of the gym personal trainers to set me up a new weight training plan. For the first month, this was my plan:

Leg Press - 3sets of 12 reps
Lat Pulldown - 3 sets of 12 reps
Chest Press - 3 sets of 12 reps
Shoulder Press - 3 sets of 12 reps
Tricep Pushdown - 3 sets of 12 reps
Bicep Curl - 3 sets of 12 reps

The plan for the second period was:

S/B squats/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Lat raises/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Inclined chest press/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Bent over row/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Lying tricep extensions/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
Hammer curls/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets of 12 reps each
My newest programme, given to me on Sunday, is as follows:

Leg Press 60kg/ No rest/ Lat Pulldown 20kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Inclined chest press 6kg/ No rest/ Bent over row 20kg/30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Squats with dumbbells 3kg/ No rest/ Shoulder Press 4kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Lying tricep extensions 4kg/ No rest/ Lat raises 3kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Bicep curls 30lbs/ No rest/ Tricep pushdown 35lbs/ No rest/ Hammer curls 5kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. total of 3 sets (12 reps each)

Now I'm a little worried about this new programme. I wonder if it's a little too intense. I mean, I tried it out today for the first time, and even though I completed it all I sort of felt I was beating myself up unnecessarily. I'm concerned that the personal trainer has simply given me a more difficult workout, but not necessarily more effective. I guess what I want to know is whether I'm overworking muscle groups, and if such double everything is really necessary (I don't know if I'm being cynical but the new workout seems to be a combination of the previous two). I'm not a stranger to hard work at the gym, so if the experts tell me that's the way to go then I'll get right down to it, but I'd rather be sure before I do myself a mischief.. Oh, and I weight train 2 to 3 times a week, coupled with cardio 3 to 4 times a week, and I usually hike during the weekend for between 4 and 9 hours at a time.

I wold very much appreciate your input

Leg Press 60kg/ No rest/ Lat Pulldown 20kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Inclined chest press 6kg/ No rest/ Bent over row 20kg/30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Squats with dumbbells 3kg/ No rest/ Shoulder Press 4kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Lying tricep extensions 4kg/ No rest/ Lat raises 3kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. Total of 3 sets (12 reps each)
Then
Bicep curls 30lbs/ No rest/ Tricep pushdown 35lbs/ No rest/ Hammer curls 5kg/ 30 sec rest/ Repeat twice. total of 3 sets (12 reps each)

First off, I would completely dump the leg press,bicep curls,tricep pushdown,tricep extensions,lat raises, and for now shoulder press.

There is little point for such movement assuming your goal is solely weight loss. Not to mention this is quite a large number of movements that need not be done, IMO.
After removing those the routine looks something like this. chest press,Lat Pulldown,Bent over row,Squats. Now, I would remove the chest press, which usually means machine. For a free weight bench press. So
Bench press
Lat pull down
Bent over rows
Squats

Next I would take down the lat pull down for a chin up. Cycle grip styles bi-set.

So bench press
Chicn up
Bent over rows
Squats

Next I would add deadlifts and cycle the use of squats with lunges.
So
bench press
Chin up
Bent over rows
Squats/lunges
Deadlifts

I would recommend the reps remain high in the 12-15 reps. Then at least bi-weekly lower them into the 8-12 zone then week three go for 6-8.

Now, initially you may or may not be able to complete squats and deads in the same workout. If this is the case then switch to an endurance rep range for the later movement. Such as squats then if unable to perform the set rep range go for 15-20 reps. Soon your conditioning will allow you to hit both movements equally hard in the same workout. I would also suggest you start out with say squats do upper body movements then move to deadlifts after the lower end has had ample rest.

I would not suggest super setting under a workout such as this, at least not in the beginning. Instead focus on 90-120s rest in week one. Move to 60-90sweek two and then week three30-60s. If you notice this goes along with the increased rep ranges, reasoning has to do with certain bodily functions between different rep ranges.

Now, what type of routine are you (or want)? We can help change that according to time available/routine style.

EDIT
BTW, It Leigh has been very busy recently. I'm sure she will respond again as soon as she is able. And when she does, if she says anything that contradicts what I'v said, listen to her .

 

[Blancita]

I'm just wondering how a weight lifting beginner who is quite overweight will manage to do chin ups. It takes a lot of strength even when you don't have a lot of extra weight on. Most females don't quite have the strength men do when it comes to performing chin ups.

If the chest press is with a machine, I would switch that for dumbells and alternate doing the exercise on a flat bench and sometimes on a slight incline (not too high or you'll hit the shoulders).

Rho, is your goal just to lose weight or more to tighten up and gain strength all over your body?

I see nothing wrong with doing exercises which target your shoulders, tris and bis. They don't take that much effort because they're small muscles and you dont have to go that heavy to work them. Just throw in 2 sets of these exercises if you run out of time but I find them valuable too.

 

[Trevor M.]

I'm just wondering how a weight lifting beginner who is quite overweight will manage to do chin ups. It takes a lot of strength even when you don't have a lot of extra weight on. Most females don't quite have the strength men do when it comes to performing chin ups.

If the chest press is with a machine, I would switch that for dumbells and alternate doing the exercise on a flat bench and sometimes on a slight incline (not too high or you'll hit the shoulders).

Rho, is your goal just to lose weight or more to tighten up and gain strength all over your body?

I see nothing wrong with doing exercises which target your shoulders, tris and bis. They don't take that much effort because they're small muscles and you dont have to go that heavy to work them. Just throw in 2 sets of these exercises if you run out of time but I find them valuable too.

Ahh, I had mistaken your ticker factory thing for hers. My apologies, In which case a lat pull would in fact be more beneficial. The bench press and bent over row already target the shoulders to solid degrees. The bis are being worked in the chin up and the tris are being worked in the bench.

For most people time efficiency is very important. Those isolation's will not add much to her overall goal of weight loss, assumption, they are time wasted on what could have been spent on larger muscle groups and more compound movements. Not to mention the risk of over training is high due to the calorie deficient coupled with them already being heavily worked in the compound movements. I see no point in doing them just do "do them".

 

[theleip]

Trevor is as always awesome, great info.

 

[Blancita]

Hmmmmm, interesting concept that I hadn't thought of actually. I've always felt a bit bad how I just do one quick bi and tri exercise at the end (for a while before I took my current break I split chest/tri/2 shoulders then other day back/2 shoulder/bis) depending on the day and often its just one set before I've had enough, usually out of boredom, and I get out of there. I'm not exactly looking for defined arms either, I do the weights more for weight management and staying firm in my body overall. So do you all think you never ever need to do the arms and shoulders separately as an isolation? Or are you just talking about for beginners or what?

 

[theleip]

isolation movements really only have a place in bodybuilder training programs where they do body part split programming. In short if you are breaking up your workouts over 5 days, then yeah you can go a head and use some isolation movements.

Personally I don't like that style of training really, even for body builders. I think you can get better proportion and strength combined with a solid periodization routine. There are a few instances with a particular trainee and nutritional style for competition that I would THINK of doing some body part isolation movement.

For fat loss, full body compound movements are king.

 

[Steve]

I'd just like to add that for the novice lifter, sticking with a VERY basic barbell routine and focusing on linear progressive overload is the name of the game.

This is the beauty of strength training for the novice. They don't need to do a bunch of complicated shit in order to trigger positive adaptation. They simply need to focus on getting stronger with the important lifts.

Don't muddy the waters before it's necessary.

 

[RhoRho]

Wow, thanks guys. There's definitely a lot here for me to go on..

I'm happy with the compound suggestions. I am really averse to isolation exercises cos I think in the long run they're not great - I'm always scared of turning out like some guys I know, who've overdeveloped their upper halves (you know - triceps, biceps, lats) but have overlooked core muscles and their lower halves, which means that a lot of them have lower back problems due to under-developing and the consequent strain on the back. That's why I want exercises that hit more muscles at the same time.

About changing the programme every few weeks, that was actually the suggestion of the PTs at the gym. They said it's so that your body doesn't become used to the same exercises. I've been used to working with the 30 sec rest period with the previous 2 programmes. Trevor, you kindly suggested a 90-120sec rest in Wk1, then 60-90 in Wk2, then 30-60 in Wk3. Does this take into the account my previous weight training (and I've always done 12 reps)? I'm still a newbie but I still like to push myself and keep my heart rate high throughout the workout.

Also, the squats I've been doing are the Swiss Ball Squats, y'know the one where the ball is between your back and the wall and you dip with or without weights. I'm really keen to learn the other squats, which I suspect are more difficult and target more muscles. I also LOVE the idea of lunges, although I've also got to learn the perfect way of doing them.

My immediate goal is to lose weight while retaining muscle mass. But bear in mind that after I lose all the weight I want to have muscle definition so I reckon I might as well get a headstart.

So, the exercises seem to be

- Bench press using dumbbells (for chest, shoulders & triceps)
- Lat Pulldown using machine (for the back/lats)
- Bent over rows using barbell (for the whole back). I already know how to do these, and I've been working on progressive overload (as Steve says). I'm now up to 20kg on these and they really work me hard cos I'm usually sweating a whole lot while doing them
- Squats.. Hmmn, I just checked the exrx site to see how it's done and I realised that my knees may not be strong enough. (I suspect that the more weight I lose the less the strain on my knees will be) Lunges look good, cos the dumbbells would help my balance and the strain on each knee would be reduced. Ok, so squats/lunges for the quads, glutes. Do I carry on with the Swiss Ball Squats, or do I attempt to do squats the 'proper' way?
- Deadlifts - for the lower back, back, quads, hamstrings, glutes

SO I definitely need to learn the correct technique for these. This is what I'm scared about, because somewhere deep inside me I seem to think that the gym PTs may not themselves know (those I've seen working out seem to stick to machines and I can't help judging them by what they do and 'how' they look)

I want to fit my workout into one day (time constraints) so I really like the idea of all the above. I found this site on wiki on compound exercises and I am convinced more than ever before that compound movements are king, as Leigh says. I'm also happy I'm not chained to machines, so I can get on with my workouts without worrying about people occupying the available machines.. (It's a little thing but it really does get stressful, particularly in the middle of a workout when someone decides to hog a machine for the next half hour!)

Thanks for your wonderful suggestions guys. I now have something to present to the PT so she can teach me the correct technique on how to do them... I'll happily welcome more suggestions for later down the line..

 

[Steve]

I'm always scared of turning out like some guys I know, who've overdeveloped their upper halves (you know - triceps, biceps, lats) but have overlooked core muscles and their lower halves, which means that a lot of them have lower back problems due to under-developing and the consequent strain on the back. That's why I want exercises that hit more muscles at the same time.

Not only does our body respond better when we train it entirely with compound exercises.... but this type of training translates better to the real world. Our bodies act in a systemic fashion, why shouldn't we train in such?

About changing the programme every few weeks, that was actually the suggestion of the PTs at the gym. They said it's so that your body doesn't become used to the same exercises.

Highly unlikely as a novice. Your trainers don't understand how our bodies respond to stress.

If you want to change up the program for psychological reasons.... and this is going to help you adhere.... by all means.

If you are doing it for some magical "fake out your body" mechanism.... forget about it.

I've been used to working with the 30 sec rest period with the previous 2 programmes. Trevor, you kindly suggested a 90-120sec rest in Wk1, then 60-90 in Wk2, then 30-60 in Wk3. Does this take into the account my previous weight training (and I've always done 12 reps)? I'm still a newbie but I still like to push myself and keep my heart rate high throughout the workout.

1. Intensity of lift (read: weight on the bar) determines length of rest. And weight on the bar determines rep range. Follow me?

So, lift heavy relative to your strength, your rep range will be reduced and your rest period would be prolonged.

I think it's good to focus primarily on a strength training protocol while dieting. If you want to throw in some higher rep stuff.... by all means. But focus on heavy.... think 4-6 reps.

Of course, this shouldn't be done until your form is down pack.

And it should be used while doing the big, compound lifts.

Also, the squats I've been doing are the Swiss Ball Squats, y'know the one where the ball is between your back and the wall and you dip with or without weights. I'm really keen to learn the other squats, which I suspect are more difficult and target more muscles. I also LOVE the idea of lunges, although I've also got to learn the perfect way of doing them.

Have your trainers show you how to squat with a barbell. Great, great exercise.

If your trainer's hips don't go below his knees when he is showing you how, tell him, "NEVERMIND!"

My bet is.... he will NOT know how to squat.

If you want me to post a vid and detailed explanation.... let me know, even though I know that can never replace real world, hands-on learning.

Better than nothing though.

The squat is a difficult exercise.... but not so hard that you can't learn it via the web.

The hard part is making your body do what it's supposed to do during the squat in proper order.

My immediate goal is to lose weight while retaining muscle mass. But bear in mind that after I lose all the weight I want to have muscle definition so I reckon I might as well get a headstart.

It's not really giving you a headstart for muscle definition in a direct sense. Instead, lifting weights properly throughout your diet will assure that you maintain the muscle you currently have.

And who knows.... being a novice may allow you some bodyrecomp where you actually gain some muscle while losing some fat.... but this will be minimal.

So, the exercises seem to be

- Bench press using dumbbells (for chest, shoulders & triceps)
- Lat Pulldown using machine (for the back/lats)
- Bent over rows using barbell (for the whole back). I already know how to do these, and I've been working on progressive overload (as Steve says). I'm now up to 20kg on these and they really work me hard cos I'm usually sweating a whole lot while doing them
- Squats.. Hmmn, I just checked the exrx site to see how it's done and I realised that my knees may not be strong enough. (I suspect that the more weight I lose the less the strain on my knees will be) Lunges look good, cos the dumbbells would help my balance and the strain on each knee would be reduced. Ok, so squats/lunges for the quads, glutes. Do I carry on with the Swiss Ball Squats, or do I attempt to do squats the 'proper' way?
- Deadlifts - for the lower back, back, quads, hamstrings, glutes

Put this into context.

When will you train? Reps, sets?

SO I definitely need to learn the correct technique for these. This is what I'm scared about, because somewhere deep inside me I seem to think that the gym PTs may not themselves know (those I've seen working out seem to stick to machines and I can't help judging them by what they do and 'how' they look)

My take:

Learning from the web from people or sites that are actually "in the know" will leave you better off than learning hands-on from some boob trainer who knows jack-poo about proper form.

Learning from the latter will only leave you with learned, incorrect motor patterns that are very hard to change once set.

Learning something fresh is easy.

Learning something correctly after already learned incorrectly is very tough.

I want to fit my workout into one day (time constraints) so I really like the idea of all the above. I found

What do you mean all in one day? Are you planning on training only once per week?

Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread.

 

[RhoRho]

Oh lawd, the harsh truth really is the harsh truth, isn't it... but then that's what I wanted.

Interesting point that I won't get used to the workout and stop seeing progress - the PTs had me believing that was the case. I don't mind doing the same workout, as long as it hits the most muscles, and is the most effective for my goals (and doesn't require a total dependence on machines..). I like the idea of progressive overload anyway, and I might not get to do this if I keep changing exercises, so I guess you have a point there.

About the length of rest depending on intensity of lift or weight being lifted, I'd need to consult the PTs about this, wouldn't I? I say this because I'm not sure I'll be able to determine for myself what weights are suitable for me. I want strength training, not endurance training. So you mean that my 12 rep per set routine has been endurance training?! (PTs again!)

I can confidently say that in all the time I've seen them train people, they've hardly ever used dumbbells, much less barbells! And almost certainly not women! I guess they need to shovel in as many people into the gym as possible for business reasons, but the people need to be stored somewhere, hence the many machines.. If everyone used weights it wouldn't be so lucrative, would it..

Anyways, back to my workout. I would VERY MUCH appreciate a video demonstration - if you could point me in the direction of such a vid I would be ecstatic. Instructions would be fantastic too but an actual video would show a lot more. Would the video take into account my wonky knees? I never used to be able to squat, but now I can, but not for very long. I think I should make that point clear. I know it'll get easier with time, but for the moment it'll be cool to find a way to do them.

I'm definitely maintaining my muscle, especially in my arms where I can actually feel it - I want to make sure this continues to be the case with the rest of my body.

When I said 'fit my workout into one day', I meant that I don't want my weight training workout to be split into different days e.g. today for upper body, tomorrow for lower body. I want a complete total body hit during one single session. I weight train 2-3 times a week and do cardio 3-4 times a week.

Ok, the reps and sets I'm still slightly unsure about. For the bench press, I know I'm able to lift 6kg for 12 reps and 3 sets, but if I'm to have lower reps and increased weight, I don't know what to increase it to. Same with the lat pulldown (I'm currently on 25kg, but also on 12 reps). I've no idea about the weights I'd lift for the squats and deadlifts, so I guess I need help there too.

I want to learn correctly so please help. Many thanks!!

 

[Steve]

Oh lawd, the harsh truth really is the harsh truth, isn't it... but then that's what I wanted.

Interesting point that I won't get used to the workout and stop seeing progress - the PTs had me believing that was the case.

Ask them why?

In the early stages, which last different lengths of time for different people, why, physiologically speaking, would the body stop responding as long as you were giving it sufficient reason to adapt (read: sufficient overload).

I don't mind doing the same workout, as long as it hits the most muscles, and is the most effective for my goals (and doesn't require a total dependence on machines..).

Most would feel that they need more.... but knowing what I know today, if I were just starting out with strength training, I'd do squats 3 times per week with a barbell, I'd alternate barbell bench press and standing barbell press, I'd throw some rows/pullups/chinups in there somewhere, and I'd do some deadlift work.

And that's it.

Nothing more.

I'd do something like a fullbody routine 3 times per week, but each day of training would not be identical.

I'd also stick with these exercises until they stopped working. And that means, I'd keep using them until I couldn't increase my strength with them.

Small, incremental increases in weight is the name of the game. That's what will provide the stimulus for adaptation in the beginning. NOT different exercises.

Changing stuff around all the time is actually bad, IMO. It doesn't allow your body the chance to get strong in the primary lifts, which is critical IMO.

I like the idea of progressive overload anyway, and I might not get to do this if I keep changing exercises, so I guess you have a point there.

Progressive overload isn't just some idea of what a program could have.

It's a critical component anyone MUST include in their routine if they want to experience progress, period.

Progressive overload, again, is the stimulus that initiates adaptation.

About the length of rest depending on intensity of lift or weight being lifted, I'd need to consult the PTs about this, wouldn't I? I say this because I'm not sure I'll be able to determine for myself what weights are suitable for me.

Well, if you are just starting out with barbell work, there are multiple ways you can go about it.

You could start with just the bar on the big exercises and work on form. Have a *good* trainer watch you to make sure your form is on. Or, better yet, if you have access to a video cam, take vids of yourself doing the exercises and post them here. Or email them to someone like myself for critique.

Once you have the form down, start adding weight to the bar incrementally. The rate at which you will add weight to the bar will be dependent on your strength levels. For instance, with the squat, you could keep adding 10 lbs until form started to *break* and/or rep speed started to slow.

You would stop here this first day and then start the next workout at the weight you left off with in the last doing something like 3 sets of 5 reps.

Using a weight that allows for 5 reps usually fits nice with rest periods lasting 90-120 seconds.

I want strength training, not endurance training. So you mean that my 12 rep per set routine has been endurance training?! (PTs again!)

No, I don't mean that.

Really, I don't have too big a problem with sets of 12 reps for the novice.

You see, for the novice, anything is sufficient for overloading the body/musculature systemically. Going from nothing to something provides overload above and beyond what the system is used to, which is required.

I'm just more a fan of 5-8 reps, or thereabouts, on the big exercises for various reasons.

I can confidently say that in all the time I've seen them train people, they've hardly ever used dumbbells, much less barbells!

Yea, that doesn't say a lot about them. At all. You should have them join here. You can entice them into thinking they can help people here.

Little do they know, but they'd be getting the education.

And almost certainly not women! I guess they need to shovel in as many people into the gym as possible for business reasons, but the people need to be stored somewhere, hence the many machines.. If everyone used weights it wouldn't be so lucrative, would it..

Did you happen to see a recent thread I started concerning a conversation (email) between a local gym owner and myself.

It was much along these lines. I called him out for the lack of free weight use in his gym, as well as the trainers sticking only to machines and cardio work. It seems to be a trend in the industry.... the minimization of strength training and the prioritization of isolation/machine work BS. It's really sad. But it's what *most* people feel is best and it's what's easy to teach and fast to use.... so of course owners/trainers that don't REALLY care about their members are going to push the use of these things.

Anyways, back to my workout. I would VERY MUCH appreciate a video demonstration - if you could point me in the direction of such a vid I would be ecstatic. Instructions would be fantastic too but an actual video would show a lot more. Would the video take into account my wonky knees?

I'll do some digging for vids. There used to be vids in the "workout" stickie.... unfortunately the site went bonkers and the vids don't work now.

No video on the web is going to take in your personal/individual pathologies and characteristics. If they did, there would be almost no need for trainers today.

But they'll give you the gist of the exercise and when coupled with detailed instruction.... it should be enough to get you started using just the bar until form is perfected.

If you are having trouble with various exercises and form.... there could be a host of reasons for it and we'll work on it at this time. There are enough good trainers around this forum that I'm sure someone will have an idea to help you.

And what's the deal with your knees? Why do you say you have bad knees?

I never used to be able to squat, but now I can, but not for very long. I think I should make that point clear. I know it'll get easier with time, but for the moment it'll be cool to find a way to do them.

How are you squatting? How low are you going?

What do you mean you can't squat "long"?

All humans can squat, unless something is going on biomechanically.

I'm definitely maintaining my muscle, especially in my arms where I can actually feel it - I want to make sure this continues to be the case with the rest of my body.

If you are maintaining in your arms, you are most likely maintaining everywhere else too.

One major indicator of muscle maintenance is strength maintenance. If your strength is remaining the same, or even increasing, chances are very good that your muscle is staying constant.

When I said 'fit my workout into one day', I meant that I don't want my weight training workout to be split into different days e.g. today for upper body, tomorrow for lower body. I want a complete total body hit during one single session. I weight train 2-3 times a week and do cardio 3-4 times a week.

Gotcha and good.

Ok, the reps and sets I'm still slightly unsure about. For the bench press, I know I'm able to lift 6kg for 12 reps and 3 sets, but if I'm to have lower reps and increased weight, I don't know what to increase it to.

Are you struggling with 6kg?

If so, all you need to do is focus on increasing strength at the moment. Work your way up in terms of strength until you are able to bench the bar.

Just make sure you are upping your weights, ideally every single workout.

Small jumps in weight would be ideal. They sell small, magnetic plates that would allow for smaller jumps in weight then most DB sets allow. Most DB sets in gyms go up by 5 lb increments.

If this is too much, which I'm guessing it is, I'd suggest getting something like this to aid in your quest for progressive overload:



You don't have to buy them directly from the company.... I'm sure other sites have better pricing.

Same with the lat pulldown (I'm currently on 25kg, but also on 12 reps). I've no idea about the weights I'd lift for the squats and deadlifts, so I guess I need help there too.

A trainer is not going to be able to "tell" you where to start. You have to experiment in fashion as I stated above with the unloaded bar and going up from there.

You don't have to be going as heavy as possible to start out. That would leave you no room for improvement.

Start out with a slightly heavier load and drop your reps. Once you find something that is heavy *enough* to make 5-8 reps heavy, stop for that day.

The next time you train with that exercise, start with the weight you left off with and use it for 3 sets of 5-8.

The next time you train with that exercise, up the weight a small bit to provide the overload.

It's that simple.

This isn't rocket science.... even though many people like to make it out to be, unfortunately. Don't get wrapped up in all that garbage.

 

[tonymcclellan]

Not
If your trainer's hips don't go below his knees when he is showing you how, tell him, "NEVERMIND!"

My bet is.... he will NOT know how to squat

Kinda like the guy in my gym the other day who was loading up the weight. As the weight got higher (heavier) he didnt go so low. I think he had about 350lbs loaded, but moved about 6 inches.

Good luck to you Rho.

 

[Trevor M.]

About changing the programme every few weeks, that was actually the suggestion of the PTs at the gym. They said it's so that your body doesn't become used to the same exercises. I've been used to working with the 30 sec rest period with the previous 2 programmes. Trevor, you kindly suggested a 90-120sec rest in Wk1, then 60-90 in Wk2, then 30-60 in Wk3. Does this take into the account my previous weight training (and I've always done 12 reps)? I'm still a newbie but I still like to push myself and keep my heart rate high throughout the workout.
..

My apologies, I had written down the times in reverse order. The correct time, that I meant to suggest, is 30-60sw1- 60-90s in Wk2, 90-120s Wk3.
rep ranges were like this. W1 12-15 reps then W2 8-12r then W3 6-8.
Once week three is done, restart the cycle untill you feel you need something changed.
As I believe steve just suggested in his previous post, start off with just the barbell to ensure form is correct. Once you are fully confidant in your form progessively raise the weight.

12 reps is not quite endurance, besides its beneficial for lactate accumulation. 15+ are the "true" endurance ranges, imo.



As to know how to increase the weight. Say our max rep your going for is 8 you want the weight to be light enough to finish the first 6 or so "ease" but by the 7-8 you want to it to be quite intense.

Sorry I can't go into more right now, tad short on time at the moment.

 

[RhoRho]

Guys, you have been so brilliant in answering my questions. I've got a couple more though, but I'm running to the gym now so I'll post comprehensively once I get back.

Again, thanks a million. Your knowledge and expertise is proving invaluable

 

[DCarr10760]

Re: Proper squat form

If you want me to post a vid and detailed explanation.... let me know, even though I know that can never replace real world, hands-on learning.

Steve,

I (for one) would like it if you were to post a video showing the correct form, with explanation. It would certainly be a help to me and perhaps to others too.

David C