Help in improving my workout plan.

S

shc

0
First of all hello to everyone, I'm new to this board.
I started going to the gym regularly few weeks ago. I want to start with doing upper body exercises and then later start doing leg exercises. I would give special importance to increasing my chest, since I naturally have pretty big and strong arms(most people wouldn't believe me I wasn't going to the gym) but my chest are much smaller compared to arms. I heard talks about which exercices you shouldn't combine in one workout and such things, some people say that I shouldn't combine chest and back exercices the same and others say it's ok. Then some people say high reps,low weight= definition, low reps,high weight=mass, and others say it's a myth. I'd like if someone helped in making my upper body exercise plan with special importance on chest muscle increasement.
At first I was combining all kind of exercises. I'd go to the gym every two days and lots of bench pressing, pec machine, biceps, triceps, lat machine and running. Now I decided to split my exercises.

My training programme was:

1st day - Chest day, various chest exercises
2nd day - Hands day, starting with bench pressing altough much less than on my 1st day. Doing biceps, triceps workout.
3rd day - Back day, starting with bench pressing(less than 1st day) and special importance to exercises for developing back muscles.
GOING TO THE GYM EVERY TWO DAYS. I also do work on my shoulders each day,crunches,stretching and cardio.

Then I thought about doing it this way:

1st day - Chest,shoulders and biceps
2nd day - Back,shoulders and triceps
And repeat this routine all the time.

I would like to have your advice on which of these two routines is better, and your help inimproving my exercise routines and telling me what's good and what's wrong with it. Thanks alot in advance.
 
Well i'll let someone else tell you about the importance of legs and compounds etc but:

you MUST switch biceps and tricep so like this:

1st day - Chest,shoulders and triceps
2nd day - Back,shoulders and biceps

Because all the chest and shoulder exercises use triceps and all the back exercises use biceps.... so chest/triceps go together and back/biceps go together... you MUST change that.. you don't want to train the same muslce 2 days in a row.
 
Thanks.

What about this:

Day 1-chest,shoulders,triceps and abs
Day 2-legs,calves,back and bi's.

or spliting it in three days

Day 1-chest,triceps,abs
Day 2-back,bi's,abs
Day 3-legs,shoulders,calves.

Which plan is better and why? What would you improve in it?
 
What about doing full body workouts?

Not sure I see why the tris MUST be worked with shoulders and chest, and the bis MUST be worked out with the back.

First of all, can you work your back without using your biceps? Also, if you plan your fatigue and recovery, you can work it to where you are ready to hit the same muscle in a day or two, or you can be recovered in 4-5 days.
 
Full body workouts, all muscle groups in one day ?

Well after a day of rest I get pretty much recovered, I can lift the same weights as before and I feel no pain. Ah, there are so many opinions on this, hard to find the right one...

Spliting the training in two or three days? How much time should go to the gym in a week, three or four ?

And jpfitness if you have another plan to recommend go for it. Thanks people.
 
i like to go along with jpfitness here with a fullbody.

day 1- legs, back, shoulders, and possibly abs or isolation exercise

day 2- legs, back, chest, and possibly abs or isolation exercise

now legs one day some sort of squat variation and the other a deadlift variation
and back on day horizontal exercise such as rows and the other a vertical such as pull ups

this is how i like to setup my workouts .
 
jpfitness said:
What about doing full body workouts?

Not sure I see why the tris MUST be worked with shoulders and chest, and the bis MUST be worked out with the back.

First of all, can you work your back without using your biceps? Also, if you plan your fatigue and recovery, you can work it to where you are ready to hit the same muscle in a day or two, or you can be recovered in 4-5 days.
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Because otherwise he will be hitting triceps with chest and shoulder exercises and then NEXT DAY be doing tricep isolation...? In the same way he will do biceps one day and then next day be hitting back which uses biceps :S
 
Can anyone experienced explain me pros and cons of full body workout and split training ?

I was thinking about doing full body workout three times a week with one day recovery between the trainings(except the saturday and sunday which would both be for the recovery) but in each training I would do the same body parts but change the isolation exercises(doing different variations of the same body part each training) so I build all parts of the muscles.

On the other hand I thought about doing split training like this, and it seems like you improve more in a shorter time. For example you can do one part of the body on monday, then on tuesday do other part of the body, wednesday third part(and in the same time while you are doing one body part the previous is taking rest), then take one day of recovery and by friday start it all over again and it seems faster than going full body workout.

Your advice people ?
 
shc said:
Can anyone experienced explain me pros and cons of full body workout and split training ?

I was thinking about doing full body workout three times a week with one day recovery between the trainings(except the saturday and sunday which would both be for the recovery) but in each training I would do the same body parts but change the isolation exercises(doing different variations of the same body part each training) so I build all parts of the muscles.

On the other hand I thought about doing split training like this, and it seems like you improve more in a shorter time. For example you can do one part of the body on monday, then on tuesday do other part of the body, wednesday third part(and in the same time while you are doing one body part the previous is taking rest), then take one day of recovery and by friday start it all over again and it seems faster than going full body workout.

Your advice people ?
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On that sort of split you only get to train each body part once a week, some maybe twice... on a full body workout each body part is trained 3 times a week.

Um besides that i don't really understand why FBW is so much better... i have lots of friends who do all different things and they all gain muscle from their own different type of split programs.

I think the difference between split and FBW is overrated and IF you EAT correctly and in surplus and make SURE you are still doing the 6 major compounds (deads, squats, bench, rows, pullups, shoulder press) in there somewhere then you'll put on muscle regardless
 
Im quite experienced, but recently started training after a long break.

i use a split of:
chest/tris/abs
back/bis
legs/shoulders

i know shoulders are worked on chest day, but only miniorly, and theres 3 rest days in between.

anyway, I have put on 2.5kg of mass, and feel and look much better in 2 months of this program.

I like the split because you can focus more on each body part, hitting it with 3 sets of 3 different exercises each time, then give it 5-7 days to recover fully. it works for me. But I agree with the above post that you will make progress regardless if you have good form and good nutrition.
 
Thanks for the info. Well you can focus on seperate muscles even when doing FBWs but each one with different variations of exercises, but I'll still choose the split time method such as xanderd mentioned. I still really don't completely understand benefits of FBW and benefits of split training, but as far as I know most of the experienced people stick to the split training most of the time(correct me if i'm wrong).
 
most of the experienced people stick to the split training most of the time
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Just because someone does something for a long time doesn't make them an authority. Also, don't mistake "size" as experience or knowledge either. Anyone with decent genetics can look great completely in spite of themselves.

Good lord people, do you all subscribe to Muscle and Fiction? From the early 90's at that?

Even on the occasions I do split routines with my clients, it's not that tired old pyramid rep scheme with the "chest and tris on day one" bull****.

Just for the record people, Clown pants, scooped out shirts, and fanny packs are not high fashion. I normally wouldn't find it necessary to inform people of this, but considering I'm having this conversation now, with all the superb info that is out from just about every reputable coach, I feel like I need to speak up.

I'm amazed we still have people spouting "split routines are better than FBW."

If you're not sure how to get started, read No Sweat No Glory's post earlier in this thread.
 
Jpfitness it's just that I'm pretty new to weight lifting and uneducated so I just asked some questions and got very different answers from different people so I got bit confused. I dont as you said trust just what someone big says because that doesn't mean they have lots of knowledge and I'm also not into getting really big.

Is it a problem for you to help me make a fitness routine plan ?
 
If your looking for a decent split routine, you might want to try a upper-body push/lower-body pull on days 1 and 4 and upper-body pull/lower-body push on days 2 and 5 (rest on day 3).

For example:
Mon - Dead-lift, Bench Press, Shoulder Press
Tue - Squat, Pullups, Rows
Wed - Off
Thur - same as Mon.
Fri - same as Tue.

Add isolation exercises and ab work as you wish.

Not everything works the same for everyone. You'll have to find out what works best for you. So, if you want to try a split, go for it. Maybe in a few weeks, try a FBW. Either way, you'll notice gains, its just a question of what gives you the best gain.
 
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Thanks. And one more question, since I'm 18 years old and 173 cm tall, I hope to get few more cm's if possible in future, and I know that some exercises can have negative effects on growth. Which exercises should I avoid ?
 
exercises won't affect your growth. there is no conclusive evidence to support that theory. Besides, you're 18, you're probably mostly done growing.
 
jpfitness said:
Just because someone does something for a long time doesn't make them an authority. Also, don't mistake "size" as experience or knowledge either. Anyone with decent genetics can look great completely in spite of themselves.

Good lord people, do you all subscribe to Muscle and Fiction? From the early 90's at that?

Even on the occasions I do split routines with my clients, it's not that tired old pyramid rep scheme with the "chest and tris on day one" bull****.
Click to expand...

I tried many methods and found what I felt worked best for me, thats what I suggest you do shc.

With full body I found personally that there were too many exercises to do and I was running into a 1.5 - 2 hour workout, and I much prefer a 1 hour workout. Also as they were all big lifts which require huge energy and concentration on perfect form I found it very draining.

So i tried a split routine, initally with a reverse pyramid (start on the highest weight then move down), and it worked for me.

about 3 years ago I was very ripped, but gaunt and tired - i found problems with my diet were hampering me more than with my workout (e.g. I was avouding ALL fat). Now I still use a split with AREG principles and a better diet.

So I suggest you just try something, anything, as long as its with perfect form and common sense. There's plenty of research out there, but none as far as I know that dicates FBW is better than split or vice versa. most of it is so specific and flawed because there are too many variables which weren't controled.

give it a few months and see if its working for YOU.

-alex
 
With full body I found personally that there were too many exercises to do and I was running into a 1.5 - 2 hour workout, and I much prefer a 1 hour workout. Also as they were all big lifts which require huge energy and concentration on perfect form I found it very draining.
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Your workouts should never last that long. An hour is even too long if you're training hard. 30-45 minutes should do it. Not sure what kind of FBW you were doing. Give me an example.
 
Karky said:
exercises won't affect your growth. there is no conclusive evidence to support that theory. Besides, you're 18, you're probably mostly done growing.
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That's not exactly true. For the most part you shouldn't have to worry about exercises stunning your growth as they more than likely won't. At 18, you can still have a little growth left. But to avoid stunning your growth, i suggest you avoid doing 1 rep max for different exercises as they can have have enough force to shatter or damage your epiphyseal plates that will stun your growth and only create problems for yourself. But don't worry because it doesn't happen often.
 
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