HELP....almost blacked-out today

[BikeSwimLaugh]

I'm posting this here because it's a heavy-traffic section.

There are obviously a lot of details and I'll try to be as specific as possible...but I don't want to write a novel. I'm just curious if anyone can figure this out or has any experience with the similar thing.

Have you ever eaten something and it's not sitting well in your stomach? You get the bad-feeling and you just know something is going to run it's course and all you can do is sit-back and wait to see what develops. You hope it'll pass, but you just sorta know things are gonna go south......well, this wasn't about anythign I ate, but I totally had that feeling that something was wrong and it was likely going to culminate into some kind of result.

Setting the stage:

I ate well yesterday...well balanced diet, didn't do much exercise (sorta a day off or light), no weird supplements, nothing new. Not sick, everyone in the household is healthy.

Last night I did not get to bed until 1:40am and sleep was light, I don't think I actually fell asleep until a bit after 2am.

I woke-up today around 7am and got-going. I went downstairs and had a small bowl of Life cereal (wheat-based, cinnamon flavor). I also popped my low-dose aspirin and drank a small cup of orange juice.

Here's where the culprit might be: I drank a can (2-servings) of Monster lo-carb energy drink. I've only done this recently and usually I eat a bowl of oatmeal before drinking it...so I'm guessing the more refined nature of the Life cereal may not have offered the same fiber & lower Glycemic absorbtion of the drink......I didn't feel jittery, but I felt a bit off.

Got to spin-class. Immediately noticed my heart-rate was higher then normal (given the exertion). Rather odd, because lately my HR has been cruising (in spin-class) around 143-155.....but today with just moderate effort I was in the 150's.

Then it hit me...that feeling that something just wasn't right. Along with my perspiration there was a cold feeling, almost like bad fuel in a car...but this wasn't coming from my stomach...it was more like bad blood or something (as I imagined). After 35 minutes in class the feeling was getting worse, mostly when I was out of the saddle. Then it started to escalate, a sense of light-headedness...I dropped down into my seat and felt like I was perhaps going to black-out or something. I didn't feel like I should entirely stop peddling, so I maintained a slow cadence. I felt a bit dizzy and it felt like I was powering-down in my head. Heart-rate was elevated despite being down...I think I had a bit of a panic attack and adrenaline was released...so my heart was pumping away but my effort was at a level that would only require about 120-125. The feeling escalated over the next 2-3 minutes then subsided. I rode-out the rest of the class in the saddle and drank a whole bunch of my water with diluted Accelerade.

After class I urinated a bit and then got on the treadmill. I felt better, but still a bit out-of-it. I did 3/4-miles and then attended the next spin-class.

Okay...why did I keep going? Cause FF would and I'm just as stupid.

I spoke with the instructor before the next class....he said a lack of sleep, low-calories were to blame...but when I told him about the Monster energy drink he told me it was likely the culprit and I wasn't about to have a heart-attack or stroke (I'm Jewish, we go there automatically...everything is an impending heart-attack or stroke). He said the caffiene, taurine, gaurana and other stimulants aren't 'real' fuel and combined with the lack of food & lack of sleep....it was likely to blame. I WANT TO BELIEVE THIS

I wouldn't say I bonked, cause I easily go 3.5 hours and this happened just 45 minutes in....but still, it was weird. I've kinda had this happen before but not quite as bad an episode.

In the future I'll half-dose the drink and only drink it AFTER eating a good portion of Oatmeal with all that wheat-germ, flax-seed & bran fiber. Maybe I'll pass on that drink altogether.

Maybe it was the combination with the aspirin & lack of sleep...I dunno. I did finish the next spin-class and swam my mile in the pool. I ate lunch and feel better now....but I think I'll go rest and try to get some sleep/nap.

Just the same...does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing???

Yes, I've been training a lot lately
Yes, I've been in some serious calorie deficits too
No Kraken, I haven't been touching myself again

Thanks...

 

[i_love_muscle]

That sure sounds like a hypo episode to me, but if you had more gas to keep going, you didn't bonk.

What the heck was in that lo-carb drink, anyway? And how can an "energy" drink be "lo-carb"? Isn't that an oxymoron? I thought that energy drinks were supposed to have high carbs.

Maybe I really do live in my own little world ... but it's a really nice place

 

[flyinfree]

oxygen issue at first run thru

but- how are you on sodium? what do you do to supplement, with the lengthy workouts, the sweat rate, your sodium/potassium/oxygen can be quite bent out of shape. remeber the brain is a muscle too.....(oxygen delivery to brain). When the blood gets thick, anythin can run funny!

I have gotten that "white out" in the run many times. i have recently added magnesium and iron, but that is more nerve system stuff.

Try Endurolytes.... 18 bucks for 100.

or go old school the way i did, eat a coupel fo serving of pickles each day, eat bananas all the time, and keep going.

DO NOT GET YOUR HEAD CHECKED! they will lock you up.

in my first 70.3 I went waaaaaay beyond that edge. Not good, but hey!! most are watchign T.V.

Sweat Daily
FF

oh- Go see a doctor! coming to the internet for advice is stupid.

signed,
advanced in dumb

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

That sure sounds like a hypo episode to me, but if you had more gas to keep going, you didn't bonk.

What is a "hypo" episode exactly? What are the symptoms....I believe it's basically bonking-out of energy; glycogen depleted; not enough energy to fuel the needs, blood-sugar drops...brain starts getting dumb???

What the heck was in that lo-carb drink, anyway? And how can an "energy" drink be "lo-carb"? Isn't that an oxymoron? I thought that energy drinks were supposed to have high carbs.

MONSTER or ROCK STAR....both in "low-carb" versions:

Lots of B-vitamins, some sodium....but here's the "kick":

Taurine
Panax Ginseng
Energy blend
L-Carnatine
Caffiene
Guarana
Inositol
Glucuronolactone
Maltodextrin

Very little sugar/glucose, but stimulants for sure!

I've heard it makes you feel like you have energy & fuel....but in reality it's a false "high" and it's not real energy at all. Carbs are energy, Guarana is not.

oxygen issue at first run thru

but- how are you on sodium? what do you do to supplement, with the lengthy workouts, the sweat rate, your sodium/potassium/oxygen can be quite bent out of shape. remeber the brain is a muscle too.....(oxygen delivery to brain). When the blood gets thick, anythin can run funny!.

Nah dude...I was running 160 mg's of aspirin...blood wasn't thick

As for potassium & sodium, I think I'm good...I take supplements and eat a well-balanced diet. NOT saying your wrong, just suggesting I'm covered in that area.

I have gotten that "white out" in the run many times. i have recently added magnesium and iron, but that is more nerve system stuff.[/QUOTE]

Please describe in detail a "white-out"......please!

DO NOT GET YOUR HEAD CHECKED! they will lock you up.

Sounds like the voice of experience!

oh- Go see a doctor! coming to the internet for advice is stupid.

You bet I'll follow-up with a doctor visit and discuss this with my doctor friends....BUT VERY few doctors are athletes...most are over-worked, white-coats with pot-bellies and they have extremely little experience with real-life performance. In terms of experiencing this sort of thing first-hand, I'd value the info & experience from someone....say....LIKE YOU! Point being: ain't nothign wrong with asking.

Quick story. For about a year I suffered from dizziness and weird pressure in the ear. I saw 4-5 specialist (ENT's) and they did Cat-scans, MRI's and other test: NOTHING was conclusive and they could only prescribe an anit-motion sickness drug. Each listened to my issues/symptoms, none had any idea.

One day a customer told me to get my teeth checked, in particular for infection. Turned-out my wisdom teeth were never pulled and the lower left jaw had impacted and the infectious fluid was draining into my inner-ear causing constant infection & inflammation: hence the dizziness. Sure enough, when I got the wisdom-teeth pulled, the oral sugeon reported massive infection (the culprit) and was amazed I wasn't in pain. Symtpoms cleared-up almost immediately. WHAT MEDICAL EXPERTS COULDN'T HELP ME WITH, a customer did.....AND I returned the favor to some lady in my offroad club who had similar issues and it too turned-out being a root-canal gone bad.

Don't depend or rely on doctors & medical science as the end-all of knowledge

Do NOT discount hardcore experience & hands-on knowledge.

I'll take my questions to this forum with as much interest as any doctor visit...time & again the knowledge here has proven beyond impressive!

Thanks...

 

[limestix]

I drink monster nearly every day. Sometimes up to and over 1L of it. (yea, i know thats dumb) and have yet to experience any ill effects aide from a single case where i drank about 2L in 2 days combined with a severe lack of sleep which left with in pretty bad shape, although no blackout zone.

Don't know what it would be, but I also don't think its anything to be worried about; it's probably just a 1 time fluky thing

 

[i_love_muscle]

What is a "hypo" episode exactly? What are the symptoms....I believe it's basically bonking-out of energy; glycogen depleted; not enough energy to fuel the needs, blood-sugar drops...brain starts getting dumb???

If you have hypoglycaemia and are not diabetic, what is happening is that the Beta cells in your pancreas over-respond to carbs, i.e., you'll get an insulin spike, which sucks all the glucose out of your bloodstream and into your muscles. Since the glycogen in your muscles is not available to your brain, once the glycogen stores in your liver are gone (which doesn't take long), you'll feel very lightheaded, your emotions will be all over the map, and you'll feel like a piece of crap. You might get ringing in your ears, tunnel vision, the sweats, lapses of memory, etc.

You had a lo-carb drink, so I highly doubt that's it.

If you're diabetic, a hypo episode leads to unconsciousness, and once you're unconscious, if you don't get glucagon or dextrose/glucose via IV, you'll lapse into a coma and die.

Obviously, you're not diabetic

I'm taking a look at what was in that lo-carb drink you ingested. I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. You may have a sensitivity to the guarana. A lot a people can't tolerate the stuff. Guarana contains theophylline (together with numerous other compounds), which was a drug used to treat asthma (it relaxes the smooth muscle in the lungs). Your heart rate will definitely go up, and it can cause arrythmias, nausea, diarrhea, dizziness, lightheadedness, etc. And it is toxic. It is rarely prescribed for asthmatics anymore as a result of the number of deaths attributed to it.

I'd stay away from this crap. Just because it's "natural", doesn't mean it's good for you. (Cyanide and arsenic are natural, too.) Keep in mind that these energy drinks are not required to be tested and that the FDA does not have the authority to regulate the herbal constituents and myriad of stimulants contained in the energy drinks. Only the caffeine content is regulated (and it's too high in most of them). The bottom line is you're their guinea pig.

If you don't know what you're putting into your body, it shouldn't get past your lips. Caveat emptor.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

I'm taking a look at what was in that lo-carb drink you ingested. I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. You may have a sensitivity to the guarana.

If you don't know what you're putting into your body, it shouldn't get past your lips. Caveat emptor.

Bingo

Rep +1

I concur. My blood-pressure WAS borderline high but lately it's been normal (due to weight-loss, exercise, etc)...but still, most these fat-burners, energy drinks and other stimulant-based "items" are not FDA regulated, lab-tested or really safe...and Lord knows how often something is snagged off the shelf when it's found to cause problems. Since I'm not some 20 year-old spring chicken (I'm 43, former heavy guy)....my hunch is these sort of things really have no place in my diet.

I'm still going to talk with a doctor just to cover that base....but I concur in thinking I should just avoid that stuff. I'll stick with the vitamin-based stuff that has electrolytes, minerals, vitamins and other simple stuff...but I think I should avoid all stimulants.

My hunch is that the aspirin along with the stimulants and other stuff just combined in some sort of bizarre "stack" that just didn't work for me. Think I'll stick with regular food, plenty of sleep and what mother-nature provides.

I'm steppin' off that horse!

Thanks!

Still wondering what a "white-out" is....

 

[mdawson2]

if you hav been getting these episodes many times but not as severe in the past but this one was worse that means that there is probably something wrong with your diet go over it closely and make a change quickly too because these episodes seem to be repetitive and getting worse. Ive only had an episode like that once and I was on an antibiotic and I just summed it up to that. Now about the energy drink and its contents I can give you several scenarios of how it could also lead to your episodes. apologize in advance for turning this into a novel but dont want you to further injure yourself
1.) caffiene is moderate diuretic like alcohol plus a vasodilator. This would cause increased blood flow to your extremeties and muscles possibly slightly depriving vital organs like the brain and heart of blood. Also, with a lower blood volume not only from sweating you have the antidiuretic effect which could significantly act to lower your blood volume and more importantly your total cardiac output (could explain why your bp was up also) so now your brain is being deprived but remember we have remarkable systems in our kidneys that brain that can counteract this, this is why the feeling of blacking out would go away, basically your body is trying to do anything it can to get you to stop exercising
2.) most of the ingredients in that energy drink have to do with the 2nd messenger cascade including the cascade that takes place in synapses btwn neurons in the brain. You already know that for every muscle contraction a neuron fires an action potential but what the ingredients are doing is allowing more action potentials being fired than normal in a nutshell, since your body can adapt to this process overtime you could be adapting and the energy drinks arent helping as much anymore so you dont have enough energy for your workouts.

 

[[Focus]]

Oh. Thought I posted here last night. Anyway, what I said, in much longer form, was, "Stop drinking chemical soup."

If you want caffeine, take just caffeine.

Edit: And then I noticed that has already been said and decided upon. Oh, well.

And you also already noted the stack effect. If you were to throw one other chemical into that mix, I suspect you would be down for the count, haha. I am currently taking the maximum dose of that stack 3 times a day, and feeling great.

 

[Eric L]

I read all the symptoms and came to the conclusion that "I kept doing it cuz FF would" is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

tsk tsk

If I found a relative or friend doing this I would simply tell them: "If you want to get hurt permanently, just ask me." IMO if something is turning you inside out (like this) I would stop before something happens, if you keep doing it, someone close to you has the opportunity to kick your ass and be justified in doing it. :yelrotflmao:

I hope you solve this problem....does not seem very pleasant.

Good day

Eric

 

[malkore]

You wouldn't be the first person to get nailed by the caffine, guarana, taurine combo. plus you added asprin to the mix. Toss in ephedra and you had an ECA stack.


i've never been sensitive to caffine...i can drink coffee and then go to bed. but toss in ANY other stimulant like taurine and I will be bouncing off the walls.

I think it was just the '****tail' you had, plus the higher GI Life cereal probably caused a bit of a blood sugar crash...all the while you are spinning your ass off on a max 5 hours of sleep.

if you tend to exercise a lot, especially with weights, I suspect your body just couldn't handle everything at once.

If it were me, I would not be in full panic mode unless it happens again when you are well rested and had a little more food in your system.

 

[[Focus]]

I read all the symptoms and came to the conclusion that "I kept doing it cuz FF would" is the sexiest thing I have ever heard.

fyp bb hopeuliekit

 

[flyinfree]

I read all the symptoms and came to the conclusion that "I kept doing it cuz FF would" is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

tsk tsk



Eric

He is right ya know! totally!

and this

"""""you'll feel very lightheaded, your emotions will be all over the map, and you'll feel like a piece of crap. You might get ringing in your ears, tunnel vision, the sweats, lapses of memory, etc.""""""

is exactly th whiteout i am talking about.

SO- my question to "i love muscle"- how do I supplement, or keep this from happening in long endurance events? When i get over 5 hours, it seems this risk is around... i have stopped and eaten a few gels (lots of sugar and carbs) and the ringing will go away so that i can continue on. Stopping is not an option-- the event is 12-14 hours.



Where is Silent and "shoot I can;t think of his naem, but he is good at this stuff" (tyler, or dang it man1!!! I'm sorry dude! and you will see this post... mucho respect... so sorry)

 

[flyinfree]

You wouldn't be the first person to get nailed by the caffine, guarana, taurine combo. plus you added asprin to the mix. Toss in ephedra and you had an ECA stack.


If it were me, I would not be in full panic mode unless it happens again when you are well rested and had a little more food in your system.

THE MAN!!! Malkore! nice!

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

I read all the symptoms and came to the conclusion that "I kept doing it cuz FF would" is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

It was a joke.....seriously. I'll figure you're joking back.

Why did I continue? Because something just told me I didn't need to stop and if I took it easy (stayed in the saddle, kept the HR below 140) that I'd be fine. The thought of FF never went through my mind...I was more concerned about blacking-out, falling off the bike and smashing my head or losing an eye by hitting the pedals on the bike next to me. Thoughts of an internet-personality who post by the name FF....not part of the equation.

BUT I'll take your tsk tsk just the same

You wouldn't be the first person to get nailed by the caffine, guarana, taurine combo. plus you added asprin to the mix. Toss in ephedra and you had an ECA stack.

I think it was just the '****tail' you had, plus the higher GI Life cereal probably caused a bit of a blood sugar crash...all the while you are spinning your ass off on a max 5 hours of sleep.

if you tend to exercise a lot, especially with weights, I suspect your body just couldn't handle everything at once.

If it were me, I would not be in full panic mode unless it happens again when you are well rested and had a little more food in your system.

This is the same advice my nutritionist also told me. The low GI cereal also didn't do anything to slow the absorbtion of the stimulants (like oatmeal does) and combined with a lack of sleep, 160mg's of aspirin.....it was probably just a bad overall chemical screw-up.

I gonna pass entirely on the stimulant drink....just stick with a breakfast of oatmeal, some eggs and maybe some fruit. As far as drinks, the low-GI accelerade with electrolytes, vitmains and minerals seems just fine.

In reflecting, I knew something was wrong when my bp was up substantially more then it should have been.

Now that I think about it, I proceeded to drink almost all 4 of my water-bottles and felt a lot better. I think there's a solid connection between a lack of hydration, the diuretic effect MDAWSON made reference to and several other chemical interactions that ran adversely to eachother. Add to that a severe caloric deficit, an appalling lack of sleep, day upon day of working-out...and I suppose (like the perfect storm) everything just came together wrong...very wrong. As for previous episodes, I've only experienced this once or twice before...but even back then I was dabbling with some "Zip-Fizz" which also features caffiene, gaurana, taurine and other stimulants in a lighter dose. EH; ENOUGH OF THIS CHEMICAL SOUP!

Tomorrow I have my big routine again....I'll stack-up with solid food and basic vitamins & electrolytes; good old-fashioned nutrients w/o any chemicals. I'm willing to bet everything will be fine. More water, more sleep and a reasonble dinner tonight.

Yeah....I'm gonna have dinner tonight, but I'd better ask FF what he's eating tonight so I can have the same thing!!!

 

[Kraken]

something similiar happened to me after lifting. I was in the shower and suddenly just blacked out. I fell and hit the side of the shower stall. I had no control over it what so ever. Weird. Hasn't happened before or since. I attribute it to something being off with my food that day. I don't drink energy drinks ever.

I'm not worried about it until it happens a few times.

 

[Greenhorn Gal]

Hi, BSL--

I drink about 1-2 lo-carb Monster drinks per month, and have for about a year. I had a very similar experience when I had one for breakfast a few months ago, except not while exercising. It was a really bad stress/anxiety day for me, and the I just chalked it up to not enough sleep or food, too much stress. For me, it passed after eating some real food.

Someone once told me that Monster will take the lacquer off of a hardwood floor. I have a huge respect for that stuff, and only put small amounts of it in my body at a time! (Shouldn't probably drink it at all, but it's so tasty!!)

 

[i_love_muscle]

You wouldn't be the first person to get nailed by the caffine, guarana, taurine combo. plus you added asprin to the mix. Toss in ephedra and you had an ECA stack.

Essentially, what this guy was on was an ECA stack. But the "E" wasn't ephedrine. It was theophylline.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Okay....so let me just ask, what is an ECA stack???? and why does someone take it?

And just for the heck of it...let me explain what I do and what I'm trying to achieve...and ask what you'd recommend (even though I'm pretty set on just eating regular food and perhaps drinking some electrolyte/vitamin stuff).

I do 3.5 hours of cardio....spinnning, running & swimming

What I'm trying to do: BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN THE FAT

I want to eat enough to give me some energy and help the "fat burn in a crabohyrdrate flame"...BUT I don't want to eat just to fuel the exercise, I'm trying to make most the exercise energy come from fat-storage.

Derwyddon & my nutritionist both have me eating about 400 calories of complex carbs and some protein before going in....but more often then not, it's just a 190-calorie Zone bar (blend of carb/protiein) and maybe a few sips from the protein shake I bring with me.

During spin I drink 2 bottles of diluted accelerade, then a sip or two of protein shake before the 2nd class, then the rest of it before swim. I also pop a few BCAA's just for good measure (anti-catabolic). The protein shake is water, lite soy-milk, 2 small scoops whey protein powder and about 2/3-cup Green Machine (fruit & vege smoothy)...in all about 280 calories and is easily digested & assimilated.

I've been doing this for many months w/o any problems like this. Once I had a very light expereince...but this one almost had me falling off the bike or worse: interrupting class (just imagine the instructor stopping the music, turning-on the bright lights, jumping off her bike and EVERYONE starring at me and someone running to call an ambulence cause they think I'm having a heart-attack......I'd f-in die of embarrassment; which is probalby the reason I didn't stop (sorry FF, it wasn't you)

I guess I'm just looking to tweak a few more calories & fat off my body in taking this drink....but the more I hear about the contents, the more I wonder wtf I was thinking....

 

[[Focus]]

ECA stack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People are sensitive to different things. I can drink 18 Rockstar Burners in 90 minutes with about 2 litres of Grey Goose and not even come close to fainting. On the other hand, 10 minutes in a hot bath or sauna and I'm out like an epileptic in a calligraphy contest. Or Christopher Reeve in a game of Twister.

What you accidentally gave yourself, I am currently taking(x2), 3 times a day. Afaict, all it does for me is give me slightly more energy. Tbh, I'd much rather be able to get in a hot tub with a beautiful mostly-nekkid lady without collapsing on her. Also, I no longer drink alcohol. So, yeah, I don't want to hear any complaints. :