going heavy and light

U

used2bfat

0
I've been having trouble lately trying to get at least two full body workoputs per week (had to give up on three) but have had trouble with it due to need for recovery. I'm now going with one heavy workout and one lighter workout per week.
Does it make sense? I'm baffled that I can complete a heavy workout (12 moves to failure) with good form, but can't recover in time for at least two such workouts per week.
I have been working on getting fit for about 2 1/2 yrs, and have managed to lose almost 90 lbs. Progress has been good, but I'll never be someone who stands out. I'm just glad not to stand out as the "fat guy" anymore.
I'd like to hear thoughts on balancing stress and recovery for fitness, and not just for maxing out muscle mass (but I'll take the mass that comes).
 
First and foremost congratuations on the weight loss. 90lbs is an amazing accomplishment

Now there has to be a reason that this is happening. What does your diet look like? also, is it possible you are just attempting to lift too much weight?

After losing 90lbs you most likely lost a LOT of muscle along with it. Its possible you might be just over-exerting yourself. Give all your stats, diet, exercises and weights and reps. Lets see if we cant figure this out.
 
I won't claim the diet is "clean", but what I do is to keep the carbs on the low side (for appetite control), and the protein higher (about 120 gm per day), for an average of about a pound a week weight loss.
Cardio is 1/2 hr row once per week on a Concept 2 (over my 4 day break, not the 3 day), combined with a daily 1 1/2 mile fast paced dog walk (20-25 min duration).
Weight training is on my Bowflex Extreme 2 that I modified to allow for leg presses, and a total of 510 lbs resistance (100 lbs over the designed max). I love my Bowflex, not because it has magical properties, but because I can motivate myself to keep on doing it.
I do one set to failure of..
leg curls, leg extensions, dead lifts, calf raises, standing hip abduction,vertical resisted ab crunches (I like these much better than getting on the floor), seated rows, bench press, close grip reverse grip pulldowns, seated shoulder press, biceps curl, and triceps rope pushdowns.
I'm getting out of breath just listing all this!
 
I have considered that I may be trying to lift too much, but how do I make gains from lifting less than I can? My form stays intact for 10-12 reps.
 
used2bfat said:
I won't claim the diet is "clean", but what I do is to keep the carbs on the low side (for appetite control), and the protein higher (about 120 gm per day), for an average of about a pound a week weight loss.
Cardio is 1/2 hr row once per week on a Concept 2 (over my 4 day break, not the 3 day), combined with a daily 1 1/2 mile fast paced dog walk (20-25 min duration).
Weight training is on my Bowflex Extreme 2 that I modified to allow for leg presses, and a total of 510 lbs resistance (100 lbs over the designed max). I love my Bowflex, not because it has magical properties, but because I can motivate myself to keep on doing it.
I do one set to failure of..
leg curls, leg extensions, dead lifts, calf raises, standing hip abduction,vertical resisted ab crunches (I like these much better than getting on the floor), seated rows, bench press, close grip reverse grip pulldowns, seated shoulder press, biceps curl, and triceps rope pushdowns.
I'm getting out of breath just listing all this!
Click to expand...

is this the order you do them in? if so that could be one reason you are tiring out. You should do your bigger compound lifts first like your bench presses, your DL's, your Rows, and keep isolation exercises at the end (e.g. curls, calf rasies).

also, 1 set to failure might mean you are lifting too heavy. try to lower the weights and spread it out over 3 sets of 10 reps. This is the most effective for building muscle especially when you first start training.

also about your diet, you didnt really list too many details. How many calories are you taking in? And no stats at all, please list your height/weight/age as well.
 
1. Yes, this is the order I have been using. I've been hitting legs first (isolations first to pre-exhaust quads and hams, so the DL's hit the glutes harder), and working my way up from lower body to upper.
2. Total calories are about 2500 or so. I tend to feel weak and quite hungry with less.
3. I turn 50 in another month.
4. Current weight 210 lbs, 6ft tall. Tanita weight scale says body fat is 22% approx.

What do you suggest for a revised order, and do you think my selection of excersizes needs revision?
 
junkfoodbad said:
is this the order you do them in? if so that could be one reason you are tiring out. You should do your bigger compound lifts first like your bench presses, your DL's, your Rows, and keep isolation exercises at the end (e.g. curls, calf rasies).

also, 1 set to failure might mean you are lifting too heavy. try to lower the weights and spread it out over 3 sets of 10 reps. This is the most effective for building muscle especially when you first start training.

also about your diet, you didnt really list too many details. How many calories are you taking in? And no stats at all, please list your height/weight/age as well.
Click to expand...

3 sets of 10???this guy has all these things to do; if he does 3 sets of 10 for every one; he will be working out for way over an hour (self destructive). He has such a variety; he doesnt need 3 sets of one exercise. Maybe if he took out the isolation exercises than it would make more sense but when HIT meets 3 sets of 10; they dont mix at all.

the reason you cant recover quick enough may be that you are limiting your carbs; they are important in recovery. Also; HIT usually does not base its workouts around full body; but instead splitting the body parts into 3 different exercise days. So if you do your chest/tris on monday; you can let that rest until next monday but you will do legs on wed and bic/back on fri. When HIT, it is unneccisary to train a muscle twice a week ; thats why people do splits.
 
used2bfat said:
1. Yes, this is the order I have been using. I've been hitting legs first (isolations first to pre-exhaust quads and hams, so the DL's hit the glutes harder), and working my way up from lower body to upper.
2. Total calories are about 2500 or so. I tend to feel weak and quite hungry with less.
3. I turn 50 in another month.
4. Current weight 210 lbs, 6ft tall. Tanita weight scale says body fat is 22% approx.

What do you suggest for a revised order, and do you think my selection of excersizes needs revision?
Click to expand...

i dont understand your logic behind exhausting your hams and quads first. This will only cause you to fail sooner on your DL's making it LESS effective on your glutes.

you seem good on calories. you say its not completely "clean" the only suggestions i can give there is to focus on cleaning it up maybe.

as far as actual exercises, seems like you are covering all the major muscle groups. As far as the order go to http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html and checkout all your exercises. See which work the most and largest muscles. Put those first and work your way down. Thats the way i would do it. You could still keep upper and lower seperate if you like. The only problem is since you are using a machine, a lot of those stabilizer muscles arent actually being worked since the machine does the stabilizing for you. but just keep that in mind when reordering them.

As far as everything else goes, the only other thing i can point to is the age. I'm not really sure the effects of weight training as you get older. There are some others around the forum who are much more knowledgable about these things and may be able to help in this area.

Hope this helps
 
Proteinboy said:
3 sets of 10???this guy has all these things to do; if he does 3 sets of 10 for every one; he will be working out for way over an hour (self destructive). He has such a variety; he doesnt need 3 sets of one exercise. Maybe if he took out the isolation exercises than it would make more sense but when HIT meets 3 sets of 10; they dont mix at all.

the reason you cant recover quick enough may be that you are limiting your carbs; they are important in recovery. Also; HIT usually does not base its workouts around full body; but instead splitting the body parts into 3 different exercise days. So if you do your chest/tris on monday; you can let that rest until next monday but you will do legs on wed and bic/back on fri. When HIT, it is unneccisary to train a muscle twice a week ; thats why people do splits.
Click to expand...

What is this HIT you are refering to?
 
To reply to Proteinboy, I have tried a three way split before, but have found that I have not been able to avoid hitting certain muscles (ie. forearms near the elbows, and outside top of shoulders) too often. This causes me to wait on those few to recover, while the rest are ready to go again.
Do I lose much by eliminating isolations (to stay with whole body)?
 
used2bfat said:
To reply to Proteinboy, I have tried a three way split before, but have found that I have not been able to avoid hitting certain muscles (ie. forearms near the elbows, and outside top of shoulders) too often. This causes me to wait on those few to recover, while the rest are ready to go again.
Do I lose much by eliminating isolations (to stay with whole body)?
Click to expand...

its hard to say with a machine workout. i know with free weights its usually pretty safe to lose isolations when doing full body because your hitting all the muscles that are commonly isolated as stabilizers.
 
Junkfoodbad, this HIT stands for "high intensity training", where you go for a combined cardio (the intensity) and strength workout, all in one.
The concept as I have it comes from Dr Ellington Darton, who wrote the Bowflex Body Plan.
Minimal time, max effort, one set to failure, keeping heart rate in aerobic zone, no more than 45min max, better if 30min or less.
 
junkfoodbad said:
its hard to say with a machine workout. i know with free weights its usually pretty safe to lose isolations when doing full body because your hitting all the muscles that are commonly isolated as stabilizers.
Click to expand...

ya i agree but when you have a machine like bowflex; your workout kindo of consists of isolation. If you have larger compound exercises that hit the muscles you take out of isolation; you are okay.
 
used2bfat said:
Junkfoodbad, this HIT stands for "high intensity training", where you go for a combined cardio (the intensity) and strength workout, all in one.
The concept as I have it comes from Dr Ellington Darton, who wrote the Bowflex Body Plan.
Minimal time, max effort, one set to failure, keeping heart rate in aerobic zone, no more than 45min max, better if 30min or less.
Click to expand...

how effective is this method for strength gains? sounds more like a fat loss method. any links so i can read up on it?
 
also; used2bfat when you split your exercises, did they all contain forearms and shoulders??? could it be that they just hurt and not soreness???

are you working out for over an hour at a time doing a huge full body exercise?
 
its really really effective; when i do HIT it doesnt consist of cardio though. used2bfat really nailed the description though. it explains why one set is enough when you train with 100% intensity and that the only way to increase muscle is to increse strength; the only way to increase strength is to increase weights every time you hit the weights and train really hard.

go to musclegaintruth.com it is where i heard of it from my role model, Sean Nalewanyj.
 
(This link is for Junkfoodbad).

Proteinboy, my workouts are about 45min only. I don't have the drive to go longer anyway.

Twelve moves are too many? I just don't like to walk away with "unstressed" areas once I get in the mood to work.
 
to be honest, im not familiar enough with HIT method of training to comment. This is all new to me. I will read up on it though. It sounds interesting
 
Junkfoodbad, the Bowflex DOES hit the stabilizers well! The path of motion is not fixed. It is a cable type machine (upper, mid, and lower positions, all bilateral {each side seperate}).
I laughed when I started with it cuz I shook so bad, just like the body builder in the infomercial.
Once I was on it for a while (couple weeks) I developed more control.
 
used2bfat said:
(This link is for Junkfoodbad).

Proteinboy, my workouts are about 45min only. I don't have the drive to go longer anyway.

Twelve moves are too many? I just don't like to walk away with "unstressed" areas once I get in the mood to work.
Click to expand...

ya same; i push myself to go for 40 minutes kuz i usually finish at 30mins. i usually cant go for any longer anyway too.

when you say twelve moves are too many; are you working your entire body or just upper?
 
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