Goal Setting

To get this thread back on course and my mind out fo the gutter for as long as possible..

some time ago, you had suggested one of David Burns books to someone and I did read it.. .and to be honest, it was far to much of a SNL skit, I'm good enough, and people like me dammit.. It's not my reality... If that approach works for some people - fabulous.. but I really don't understand that mindset...
 
Yea, it's not a book I'd recommend to you. No approach is univerally appropriate to all people.

That said, the book, or at least some of the drills/exercises in it, have proven very effective with quite a high number of people I've worked with.

How something appears to be means very little to me. How it 'works' when applied to various people is all I care about. It's about the results.

But as I said, it's not for everyone, certainly not.
 
To the OP, I'd also be interested in hearing your thoughts in relation to NLP along with CBT.
 
There was a time I asked Tom Venuto to back up an article he published regarding the psychology of fat loss. I forget the article now, as it was a while ago. I remember it being a good article though and someone on another forum said she'd be interested in investigating further so I emailed him...

Here were some points directly from his email for anyone interested:

1. Things and results dont attract themselves to you or
materialize out of thin air, just because you think about
and visualize them and a body doesnt change
just because you see yourself in your minds
eye with a fit body... thinking otherwise would be called
delusion or schizophrenia, I believe !!!


2. But thoughts and mental images ARE the causes that set in motion
the action/behavior that produce the effects...
the effects are the better body or improved physical performance
and action and behavior change takes place very subtly on the subconcsious level

3. "non believers" can start by looking up :

Dr. Richard restak, MD, psychiatrist, neuroscientist
who is one of many brain scientists who has used
high tech brain scan equipment to trace the location and
the exact function of visualization and mental pictures
right to the specific parts of the brain that create the premotor
programs that carry out behavior on an unsoncsious level

4. they can look up William Gehring and Adrian Willoughby who
published a study in the journal SCIENCE – which proved that unconscious
mental processing leads to Impulsive decisions being made without consulting your conscious
mind. This means that people make decisions and take action many times every day without thinking about it
and they take these actions in alignment with the with the self image and other mental programs running
on the subconscous level

5. Dr. John Bargh of Yale and Dr. Tanya Chartrand Of Duke University who are psychologists who specialize in non-conscious or automatic influences on behavior and motivation. Based on their research, they say that about 95% of our behavior IS unconsciously chosen.

6. they can look up the research on brain plasticity and formation of new neuron connections and dendrite protuberances, which have shown us that the self help maxim that it takes 21 days to develop a habit is true because
brain scan equipment can actually see the new neuron connections being formed and neural pathways being strengthened after approx 3 weeks of repetition. so this is scientific proof of repetition

7. they can look up the fact that emotion strengthens neuron connections and subconscious programming. Brain researchers like Dr. Pierce Howard have written about the strong neurological and biological basis behind emotions and have actually traced emotions to specific parts of the brain (limbic system) of affirmations and visualizing daily until new habit is formed.

8. they could look up dr. daniel amen who has pioneered work in SPECT scan imagery in psychiatry.. another MD who will tell you that "thoughts are things"

9. they could look up dr bruce lipton on the biology of belief and in fact
anyone who does any real research on placebo will be flabbergasted at the implications of how the mind controls the body.

10 last but not least, when it comes to mental imagery, they should look up the work of some of the top sports psychologists like jeffrey hodges from australia, Charles garfield PhD (peak performance), dennis waitley, Phd,
Dr. judd biasiotto, Phd., , terry orlick, Phd, robert Nideffer, PhD, Steven Ungerleider, PhD. and Mihaly Csikzenthimahalyi... and Jim Lohr,PhD, ...see what they all say about visualization andmental imagery, which falls into the same category as self image (mental images)... if this is psycho babble, then i guess all the pro and olympic athletes that hire these guys are just nuts, huh???
 
Psychology is my field of study and I currently work as a researcher. We do some neat stuff unrelated to motivation.

Cognitive Behavior Therapy has excellent empirical support and is practical. It doesn't require extensive training for application. If I had to pick a poison, it would be either CBT or BAT (Behavioral Activation Therapy) which has equivalent support.

David Burns is great. Feeling good is one of the better self help books out there, but it was created with depression in mind. Its application may be less effective for other conditions. I've always been curious as to how clinically depressed inviduals are supposed to get through a 500 page book, though.

On that note, CBT is not the pinnacle of psychotherapy, and there are multiple, equally effective alternatives.

NLP doesn't really exist as a school of thought, per se. The only thing it offers to the field of psychology is eye accessing cues, which has no empirical support. Everything else is a rehash of existing concepts, though I suppose it's more digestible.

I don't think visualizing things is as effective as people make them out to be. It stimulates related brain areas, but no more than observing people does. Imagining someone hitting a baseball, and watching someone hit a baseball, lights up the same brain areas. You can watch baseball your whole life and I don't think you'd even moderately compare to someone who's played a handful of games.

Plonki:hat:
 
Good stuff.

I'd be interested in hearing any recommendations you have for me. I'm a personal trainer working with a wide spectrum of clientele, some weighing 400+ lbs.

Obviously there is a huge psychological component to their success. I've done a good bit of research on CBT and implemented some 'tactics' successfully into the psychological side of my training.

I'm always up for suggestions though from those 'in the business' of psychology though. Any recommended readings? I've read the few books out right now dealing directly with CBT and obesity.

Also, are you of the opinion that our subconscious minds are programmable to the extent that things like CBT can override the chemistry and neurophysiology of our brains?

Are you of the opinion that many of us (maybe all of us) are at the mercy of our automatic unconscious minds? I've seen research suggesting up to 95% of your behavior is unconsciously chosen and that conscious thought is but a tip of a massive iceberg.

If you subscribe to that, to what extent do you believe we are able to 'gain control"?

Is it always going to be a matter of fighting through natural, unconscious proclivities from years and years of 'programming'?

Of course I have thoughts/opinions on these questions. I'm playing 'stupid' simply b/c I want to hear your unbiased opinion on it all.

Thanks for your time.
 
An impressive reference list is generally a good indicator of how useful a book will be. Academic books have several hundred citations, where as those without an empirical foundation have less. Try checking out Guilford Press (guilford.com) for a list of books written by experts, which are typically available on amazon.com as well.

If you've read a few text books on CBT with application to obesity then you're likely all caught up with CBT.

Conservatively, our thoughts and physiology interact with eachother, so you can change your "chemistry" through your thoughts and actions. There is overwhelming research to support this contention. On that note, there are some serious medical conditions that can't be overcome by any psychotherapy currently available (e.g. you can't cure a thyroid problem with therapy)

95% of our behaviour is unconsciously chosen, but most of it is uninteresting. Things like breathing, metabolism, sensory processing, regulating your body temperature. As far as decisions go, those are purely conscious unless you are suffering from psychosis or are under the influence of drugs. There are many things that influence our behavior, but the actual decisions we make are conscious ones. Freud would disagree, but I would disagree with Freud.

Working against what we've been conditioned to do is hard work, but it's not an uphill battle. The progress you make sustains itself through the same mechanisms that formed the initial habit.

Plonki:hat:
 
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