Genetics, How big of a role do they play?

I see your point in that it may be an excuse for some to give up.

But ignoring the fact genetics plays is plain ignorant and stubborn and im suprised that someone that has lots of reps would make such a conclusion, ecspecially it seems from just plain uneducated observations.

What your implying is that everyone has the capacity to gain the same amount of muscle. I use to have a tall skinny chinese lecturer and to propose that he could build up to the same degree as a maori for example is laughable.

I hope you stop digging in the hole.. :)
 
I see your point in that it may be an excuse for some to give up.

But ignoring the fact genetics plays is plain ignorant and stubborn and im suprised that someone that has lots of reps would make such a conclusion, ecspecially it seems from just plain uneducated observations.

What your implying is that everyone has the capacity to gain the same amount of muscle. I use to have a tall skinny chinese lecturer and to propose that he could build up to the same degree as a maori for example is laughable.

I hope you stop digging in the hole.. :)

Hmm, said better than I could. I agree.
 
Dude. Read some bios. A lot of the best got into BB because they were small when they were young.

Everyone is small before they start. You also have to understand that a pro BBers will have a different definition of "small" and "skinny" than most other people due to how big they are themselves.
 
But ignoring the fact genetics plays is plain ignorant and stubborn and im suprised that someone that has lots of reps would make such a conclusion, ecspecially it seems from just plain uneducated observations.

I guess my point is. If you can't change genetics, and you don't even really know what they are. There is no way of knowing what genetic role is being played for an individual. So if you spend your time learning and getting better, it is time better spent.

What your implying is that everyone has the capacity to gain the same amount of muscle. I use to have a tall skinny chinese lecturer and to propose that he could build up to the same degree as a maori for example is laughable.

What I am implying is that everyone has the ability to train and compete at the elite level. I know it is not scientific, but people get there all of the time. Most because they want to make it. Just watch the Olympics. There are a lot of great stories about athletes who have done more than they should have. (the same is true for any sport.)

And given ample training time and a start at a young enough of an age. Why would a skinny chinese guy not be able to get to where he wants to go. Hell, I was 5'11" and 100lbs when I started. Was it bad genetics? I don't think so. Even then, at this point it does not matter at all does it?

If you're telling me that a distance runner like prefontaine could have worked hard and used his "power of mind" to look like present day ronnie coleman then you are full of crap.

If, as a freshman in high school, Prefontaine got into weightlifting and not cross country, why not? Ok, he died at 24 and only had 9 years of training. It takes most BB longer than that to get to the high level. Aside from that, there is no reason he could not have gone into BB and done very well. Just because his sport of choice was different does not mean that he could not have made it in other sports. (we will also have to take into account the difference in the drugs of BB's today as opposed too the 60's and 70's)

Here is what I am not saying.

Genetics does not have an effect or does not exist. I know genetics plays a role. I have met guys who can clean and press over 300lbs, for reps, right out of high school, with no weightlifting training at all. There are also guys of the same age who have lots of training who are stronger and better at the lifts. So in this case the "guy with good genetics" lost.

I have seen the same strong guy with little training experience start training and struggle to get results. Where guys who started training at the same time and had a lower starting point got great results and surpassed him in strength.

I am also not saying that every person will take the same amount of time to get to a higher level. For some things will take longer. This does not mean that they are unable to get to a high level.

Here is what I am saying.

It is not possible to know exactly what your genetics are. People adapt differently to different training programs, this is genetic. If a person does not start out as strong or as big, but ends up being able to recover faster, or has a nervous system that adapts faster, finds a better training regime early on, or any number of things that would help them get better results, they can be great.

There are so many genetic variables that nothing can be predicted from the "he has good genetics" standpoint.

Champions are born out of "false hope."

It makes me sad that so many people do not understand the potential of "wanting it bad enough."
 
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Everyone is small before they start.

That is not true.

You also have to understand that a pro BBers will have a different definition of "small" and "skinny" than most other people due to how big they are themselves.

This does not mean that they were not actually small when they were young. A very common start to a lifters, or a BB's story is "the bigger kids were always picking on me and I got Pi$$ed and took up weight lifting."

$h!t. Thats how my story starts.
 
Gosh who cares. Maybe the bigger kids were lifting weights before him, maybe the bigger kids were 17 and he was 6.
 
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thats how my story starts too :D It amuses me that i can now sucesfully powerclean them and throw them out of a window should they try it again ;)
 
no offence but you should purchase a book about biology specifically genetics

Of course, training for anything you will improve, but to claim that everyone has the ability to become champion marathon runners is umm quite absurd.
 
Everyone born with everything working can do it, sure. Obviously the 500 lb morbidly obese 60 year old probably won't be able to do it, but GENETICALLY speaking, we all are born with the ability to do it, IF that's what we chose to do.

Matt, most of your "arguments" end up with you saying some stupid, arrogant statement such as, "Hey maybe you should read this," or, "Hey maybe if you went to school as long as I have..." These are simply Ad Hominem Fallacies that, to those who are smart enough to recognize, make you look stupider than the person you are trying to assert yourself over. Someone as smart as you should know that if you're going to attack someone and make claims, the least you can do is defend yourself with an actual show of more than average knowledge and wisdom.
 
Im not attacking just trying to explain to him but he continues to dodge the facts..anyway im out. :SaiyanSmilie_anim:
 
I have a few questions concerning genetics and how big of a role they play in weight lifting, nutrition, etc. (I am 16 years old and the people who I will talk about are the same age.) Because I have 2 friends with whom I workout and one of them works out 3-4 times a week does HIIT and eats very healthy yet has average results. My other friend does only weight lifting 2-3 times a week and has a crap diet/eats junk/fast food a lot yet still has amazing results.

I looked at this and questioned myself why would there be such a diffrence? Then I thought genetics maybe? So I ask: How big of a role do genetics play in weightlifting/nutrition?

I'm gonna try to avoid all the flaming here and just say that in the case you mentioned there isn't enough detail given to compare the two people you mentioned in any way. However I'll make a few suggestions given what you've said

1) Maybe the guy who you say has a great diet isn't eatting enough to make gains, or maybe he's workout is crap?

2) As they're both teens maybe one of them has a much higher testosterone level than the other. At your age hormones are all over the place

Whether genetics play any role or not they shouldn't have that much of an effect that one of your friends has far superior results with an inferior routine.
 
ive seen alot of people get superior results with an inferior routine, they usually end up injured after a while though. But ive seen more people get superior results with superior routines.
I belive how fast our protein synthesis is is decided by our genetics, and i belive our hormone levels also are decided by our genetics.
 
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I kinda breezed through a lot of the flaming, but I think I see what goergen is saying. If his general thoughts were that genetics are what they are, why even think about it? I don't know about you, but I go into the gym thinking, "I'm gonna tear it up today", not "Damn, my dad is small, I'll never get anywhere with this".

So, my thoughts are that you CANNOT control genetics, you CAN control you eating and working out, so get going!
 
I kinda breezed through a lot of the flaming, but I think I see what goergen is saying. If his general thoughts were that genetics are what they are, why even think about it? I don't know about you, but I go into the gym thinking, "I'm gonna tear it up today", not "Damn, my dad is small, I'll never get anywhere with this".

So, my thoughts are that you CANNOT control genetics, you CAN control you eating and working out, so get going!

well said.
 
guys who have genetics to be good endurance athletes can also train to build big muscles.
guys who have genetics for strength or building big muscles can also train to run endurance races.
do whichever you want and dont let genetics stop you.

but remember what works for one guy might not work as easily for you.

take two bbrs both trained together all there lives,doing the same routine/diet/exercises/weights/ etc but one has the genetics for big legs the other big arms,when they finaly become top bbrs they both release books,selling there routines, one book is called how to build massive arms the other how to build massive legs,but both the routines are the same.:eek::rolleyes:
 
I'm gonna try to avoid all the flaming here and just say that in the case you mentioned there isn't enough detail given to compare the two people you mentioned in any way. However I'll make a few suggestions given what you've said

1) Maybe the guy who you say has a great diet isn't eatting enough to make gains, or maybe he's workout is crap?

2) As they're both teens maybe one of them has a much higher testosterone level than the other. At your age hormones are all over the place

Whether genetics play any role or not they shouldn't have that much of an effect that one of your friends has far superior results with an inferior routine.

Thank you for answering my question. I used my friends simply to put an example to put my question in context. I just wanted to ask a question. I didn't want to turn this into a <<blaming bad genetics for mediocre results>> thread. I'd also like to see more answers like this... Thanks to the others that also have answered the question.
 
Size is highly dictated by someones muscle fibre type. Slow twitch (slow oxidative) muscle fibres WILL NOT EVER hypertrophy. Fast twitch (fast oxidative) will. The majority of people are pretty close to an even mixture. The best bodybuilders are a maximum of 70 - 80% Fast twitch. The best endurance athletes are the other way around. What I am trying to say is that some people are generally more predisposed to gaining size and strength. Strength is infact highly affected by muscle size and the force production of that muscle.

The only way to know exactly what type you are is by having a muscle biopsy and trust me it isnt pleasant I have had 9 of them done. But in saying that you can get a fair idea of what you are if you know what to look for.

We are limited by our genetic potential but still try and push the boundaries.
 
Well said NBS...
 
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