Gaining upper STRENGTH evenly with mass. (long read with pics)

[oicdn]

Gaining upper body STRENGTH evenly with mass? (long read with pics)

Figure I'd introduce myself first.

27, used to run XC in high school, and found out a couple months ago, I can still run an 8K in under 45 minutes. I used to cycle...A LOT. I rode BMX, road, downhill, and trials (not trails) for quite some time, and am recently starting to build another bike up for trials/street riding. I also used to surf and skimboard (where you ride waves/shorebreak).

But more importantly, I used to break dance and compete on a national level. So I'm VERY familiar with core strength, proper dieting, etc. Anybody who watches modern break dancing knows it's 90% core strength, 10% everything else as far as muscle training goes. An example of my core strength is I can go from sitting with my legs in front of me, to lifting them up and going into a handstand. I can't do a handstand push-up, but I can get to the position from sitting, lol. I eventually want to be able to do a planche, but aren't particularly training for it, hahaa.

In anycase, I'm an ectomorph with a VERY high metabolism. I would say I can't gain weight, but the sticky above says otherwise In anycase, I'm wanting to get larger, but maintain my strength.

People say photos are worth a thousand words so here's some pics to illustrate. Please note, none of these pictures are me "flexing". The 1st set is after breakdancing from a couple months ago, and the one with all the ink is a couple months after doing 3 weeks worth of Crossfit workouts (I have a tone of pdfs from them) and dieting "correctly".

Couple months back:


After some Crossfit workouts and some light bench, curls, and lat bars 3 weeks worth:


I'm 6'0" and weigh 150-155lbs. So I'm VERY lanky. The bench, lat, and curls were done in 5 reps of 5. I started out at 130 on week 1, and ramped my way up to 160 at the end of 3 weeks. I would do 5 lifts of 160 on the bench, then 5 lat pull downs of 160, then 5 curls of 60. With 1 minute breaks between each machine, repeated 5 times and that was my regimen for those 3 weeks. As you can see, the difference is there, just minimal. I noticed I gained much strength, but didn't really bulk up any.

I decided after running an 8K in under 45 minutes (and not training for it, just decided to run it to see if I could still run 5 miles, 2 bridges on the path btw) I would get myself into shape. I was never able to get large or gain mass. Even with an extremely high caloric intake and LOTS of proteins, I wasn't able to do it. I suspect my problem is that I don't eat veggies. The only things I eat that come out of the ground are fruits, potatoes, corn, and nuts. I just can't eat anything green without gagging...simple as that.

I was given a bunch of CrossFit pds files that seem to be reliable info, and are kinda the direction I want to go.

This website also seemed like a good place to start and perhaps live by?



I was getting tired of calisthenics and am getting told the way I was doing them was beyond the point of gaining, and more to the point of endurance training. So I bought some Perfect Push-Ups and decided to give those a shot and the results seem to be doing more than just push-ups alone do, so I guess I can say I'm satisfied with them? All I know is, I'm sore the next day from doing a rep of 10, rest, then 8, rest, then 6, rest, then 4 all under 2 minutes of each close, regular, and wide positions vs doing the same without the perfect push-up. I don't get sore from push-ups or sit-ups (without weights)...regardless of how many I do. Probably from the fact that I used to breakdance? If you ask me to breakdance, however, my entire torso is sore for the next couple of DAYS.


So I want to get bigger, but still remain limber enough do what it is I want. Think Olympic swimmer, or gymnast size. So I'm not even really being greedy, lol. I just want to get rid of this "skinny" look I have and put some mass on. More or less, be average size, but defined. I need a regimen, and something or someone to tell me "this is what you need to do for you to get where you want to be". Not just a bunch of various info that all leads to "the same end result". I.E....I'm clueless and lost.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Phate89]

1. How high of a calorie intake were you eating and still not gaining?

Just keep bringing the calories up, and you will gain.

2. Are you doing any kind of heavy lifting? Squats, deadlifts, presses, rows, etc?

 

[oicdn]

Well, I was taking in anywhere between 6K-8K calories a day. I know that seems very wide spread, but my caloric intake never saw below 6K, and on certain days (usually my days off) saw as much as 10K. My schedule is very variable, hence the reason it was all over the place. But typically it was sitting at the 7K range. I can eat like a fat person, or like somebody that has a hole in their leg. Eating is not a problem. Some people say it's a blessing, but honestly, gaining weight is an issue for me. I suspect it's because the activities I did do, like the biking and breakdancing are HUGE cardio workouts, and I would be doing them literally for 4-6 hours at a time, sometimes every day....I can guess what kinda of damage that does to the amount of calories going down the drain and getting used. I'm a VERY active person.

As far as heavy lifting....no dead presses or squats. I was trying to stay limber, so most of my activities were calisthenic, like various pull ups, push-ups on inclines(chairs, walls), etc.

Another limiting factor is my access to equipment. I work in two cities, about 100 miles apart here in Florida. At home in Jacksonville Beach, I have all the gyms around to my use within walking distance. Whether I'm a member to any of them is a different story. In Ocala/Gainesville, everything is so far spread apart (literally, a 15 minute drive on the highway), it becomes a hassle just to go to the grocery store, let alone one of the 2 gyms that are 30 miles apart. My schedule from one week to the next varies greatly. So I may be in Ocala/Gainesville for days at a time, with access to nothing. And other weeks, like the beginning of this week, I'm home, and have nothing but time and access to any gym of my choice.

However, regardless of schedule, my eating habits don't change....surprisingly. The times I may eat may vary, but the end result of grams of protein per day, caloric intake, and just straight food remain a constant.

 

[Eric L]

I suspect it's because the activities I did do, like the biking and breakdancing are HUGE cardio workouts, and I would be doing them literally for 4-6 hours at a time, sometimes every day....I can guess what kinda of damage that does to the amount of calories going down the drain and getting used. I'm a VERY active person.

Dude, after reading your statement that you ate 6-8k kcals a day, I was like....forget it, something is wrong....but after reading the above....it makes total sense.

Eat more if you don't get any gains.

If you can do more than 12-15 reps on an exercises, chances are you won't get sore the next morning from them.

Exercises that bring you to fatigue within 5-8 reps will get you sore, but dude, your body is so used to being active that it might be very well adapted to muscle recovery and you just might not be sore, period.

Anyhow, I hope you have deep pockets, cause your gonna need ****loads of food my friend.



Eric

 

[oicdn]

Well, I can still get sore (unfortunately, lol). These perfect push-up things (don't laugh) get me sore for like 2 days. And I only do 8, rest, then 6, rest, then 4 all under 2 minutes. I do a wide variation, then a close variation. So 60 total within about 6-10 minutes depending on the break I take in between the sets. By the end, my shoulders and arms are pretty jello-y.

I need to find a DEDICATED regimen. Maybe what I need is a personal trainer. But I'm so sketch about hiring a personal trainer, who isn't in as good a shape as I am. I'm no pinnacle of human health my any sort of delusion, but it just seems like I'd be throwing my money down the drain on a person who could barely, if at all keep up with me to begin with...

 

[Phate89]

Your not going to gain much mass by doing just body weight stuff. You need to look into some heavy lifting.

I seriously doubt your eating 7-8K calories a day. But if you are you either are going to have to increase that intake, or stop doing so much cardio and focus on lifting.

I don't see how you afford to eat that much.

 

[oicdn]

7K calories. I eat 1500 calories in just breakfast. Steak and eggs (whites only overhard), grits, 2 english muffins, 1 cup of cereal with regular milk, OJ or grapefruit juice (usually 16oz worth) and depending on if I have it, a banana, kiwi, or raspberries. Starbucks on the way to work if time permits.

Usually munching on peanuts, cashews, macadamias, or fruit snacks, but with a grilled cheese here and there, or turkey sandwich/wrap and chips. But I'm eating throughout the day, usually munching on something, and people hate me for it.

Dinner usually consists of something like baked or mashed potatoes, and a breakfast food like eggs or hash browns. Usually coupled with pasta of some sort and chicken and rice. But I eat MANY small meals through out the day. Well, I guess you could call them large portioned snacks.

I'm usually eating twice the portions of what's given for stats on the back the nutritional values, not including the drinks I'm drinking throughout the day, usually fruitjuice, gatorade or powerade and soda. Heck, the starbucks in the morning usually has over 300 calories...add that to my breakfast, and 7K calories isn't that hard to achieve at the end of the day.

I'm a poker instructor during the day, and a dealer at night. I have a 4 hour break in between my classes and when I have to work, if I work that night. But usually, I eat on my 2-3 30 minute breaks while at work (so I'm not thinking about food or thristy while I'm working), so my schedule can easily introduce food throughout my shift. My shifts are usually like work 1.5 hours, 30 minute break, work 2 hours, 30 minute break, work 1.5 hours, 30 minute break, shift over. So the AMOUNT of eating, is not a problem. Content on the other hand (I don't eat greens or veggies), may be a bit of a different story, but most of the essential vitamins are covered throughout the day, without the aid of a multi-vitamin which I do take in the morning.