Failed Reps, Rest Duration and Negatives

T

TytMyk

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A few questions I posted in my Journal, but I am getting smarter and decided it might be a better idea to post them here if I want quicker answers! :action3: I'll copy the answers to my journal...

1) How critcal are "failed reps" in mass building? Should I be failing on my last rep, a couple sets per exercise? I have no spotter and am working with dumbells and resistance bands, so assisted reps aren't an option for me. I use drop-sets as a substitute.

2) What is the optimal rest time between sets, and exercises, for mass building?

3) What is the consensus on optimal "negative count" per rep? (sorry if thats not the right terminology. Still learning the lingo.) I'm currently using 3 seconds for each rep.

Any info would be appreciated...

Thanks!
 
You don't need to use failed sets, you don't need to use dropsets either. They are both a tool in the toolbox, and can be used, but remember, they are very taxing.

for mass building, the general recommendation is that you don't use "complete" rest (which is about 2-3 min), try using 1 minute. Of course, this will severely limit the weight you can use on consecutive sets of the same exercise, so you might have to lower the weight from set to set.

3 seconds down is ok, you can vary it up a bit if you want to, though.
 
Karky said:
You don't need to use failed sets, you don't need to use dropsets either. They are both a tool in the toolbox, and can be used, but remember, they are very taxing.

for mass building, the general recommendation is that you don't use "complete" rest (which is about 2-3 min), try using 1 minute. Of course, this will severely limit the weight you can use on consecutive sets of the same exercise, so you might have to lower the weight from set to set.

3 seconds down is ok, you can vary it up a bit if you want to, though.
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Thanks Karky! I've been under the impression that failed sets are necessary for building mass... and am starting to realize the bad habits I've developed because of misconceptions such as that one. Looks like I'm ok on my rests and negatives. I appreciate the response!!!
 
Intensity

Although not directly related to your question TytMyk, for mass building are the dumbbells you have adequate? (% of 1RM?) For mass building intensity is important. The weight training system should have a significant anabolic effect. This will stimulate increased muscle growth through the release of growth hormone and testosterone. Your workouts need to target fast-twitch muscle fibre.
 
blackbeard said:
Although not directly related to your question TytMyk, for mass building are the dumbbells you have adequate? (% of 1RM?) For mass building intensity is important. The weight training system should have a significant anabolic effect. This will stimulate increased muscle growth through the release of growth hormone and testosterone. Your workouts need to target fast-twitch muscle fibre.
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I use the Bowflex SelectTech dumbells (up to 52.5 lbs) and also have a set of 60 and 70 lb dumbells. I've reached a point with chest where I need to invest in some 75's and probably 80's to fail prior to 10 reps, but reducing my rest to 60 seconds between sets has brought me back down to 60's and 70's being adequate for high intensity. Please let me know your thoughs.

Also... could you give me a little info on "% of 1RM"? I've seen that a couple times, but have yet to ask or look in to the meaning.

Thanks!
 
1RM is 1 repetition maximum, what you can lift for only one repetition. It's generally accepted that you need a certain intensity for hypertrophy to occur. If you stay at 12 reps and below I'd say you're not to worry (not saying higher than that can't induce hypertrophy!)
 
Karky said:
1RM is 1 repetition maximum, what you can lift for only one repetition. It's generally accepted that you need a certain intensity for hypertrophy to occur. If you stay at 12 reps and below I'd say you're not to worry (not saying higher than that can't induce hypertrophy!)
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ok... cool. sounds like i'm ok with what I have right now then. only problem i do have is with pullups and rows. i don't have a pull-up bar or any other form of back equipment. i use resistance bands and try to create enough using multple. seems to work for now... but i'm probably going to have to suck it up and join a gym when I get stronger. same issue with legs. thanks again for you help.
 
To increase muscle size - Medium to high numbers of reps, 8-12 with medium to heavy loading, 70-80% plus of 1RM. You do need some heavy a$$ weights. Have you considered doing squats and deads? Those are pretty good but you probably need a barbell and some Oly weights rather than your Bowflex.
 
blackbeard said:
To increase muscle size - Medium to high numbers of reps, 8-12 with medium to heavy loading, 70-80% plus of 1RM. You do need some heavy a$$ weights. Have you considered doing squats and deads? Those are pretty good but you probably need a barbell and some Oly weights rather than your Bowflex.
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so what you're say is if my 1RM is 100 lb dumbells... I should be using 70 - 80 lb dumbells at 8 - 12 reps, correct? just want to make sure i get it.

i've done Goblet squats with my dumbells and it works pretty good. planning on starting a leg routine again this week and adding deadlifts as well. we'll see how it goes, i guess.

i am considering investing in a barbell set... but may just bite the bullet and join a gym. i'm going to devote myself to adding muscle mass starting in August (goal is 15 lbs of muscle by 3/2010) and definitely don't want to hinder myself because of lacking equipment.
 
joining a gym isn't a bad idea. You won't have to worry about there not being enough weight, having to buy more plates, etc.
 
slim jim said:
yes, fail your set. this is great- the gains are noticably greater. it takes more out of you, but u get more back.
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see... this is what's been confusing me for years. i guess the answer is, both work? i'm really trying to understand the technical reasoning as to why one would prefer one technique over the other.... but need a dummy's version.:confused:
 
Like Karky said, you do NOT have to do them. They are just something to do for fun b/c weight lifting is repetitious and mundane so fail setting mixes things up. Its another tool to keep the muscle guessing so you dont' adapt so the muscle will grow more. Personally, I go 4-8 reps for 3-4 sets for mass growth.
 
tic said:
Like Karky said, you do NOT have to do them. They are just something to do for fun b/c weight lifting is repetitious and mundane so fail setting mixes things up. Its another tool to keep the muscle guessing so you dont' adapt so the muscle will grow more. Personally, I go 4-8 reps for 3-4 sets for mass growth.
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gotcha. sorry karky, i did read that... but didn't process it very effectively apparently. monday sucks. i have had great results using failed sets, and have pretty much always targeted to fail my last couple sets of each exercise.... and even just do two failed sets of a third and fourth exercise on a specific body part. i hear what you're saying about "mixing things up"... and agree about the mundaness!! again... i'm not complete in the dark, as i've been training on and off for years with decent results. just trying to verify some things and clean up my bad habits... as I really don't have anybody with a lot of proven experience to leverage for guidance. books only do so much for me.... so sorry if i ask a million questions. glad i found this forum!!!!

if you can, please check out my Journal. i started it last week and will try log daily. i would appreciate any feedback you guys can give. thanks a lot for your responses!!
 
Karky said:
if you are truly having great results, then there is really no need to change anything.
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well... my routine gave me results that i was shooting for, which was to lose 20 lbs and tone up. now that i've reached that i'm shooting for other targets. next is to put on 15 lbs of muscle by next March. i just want to make sure i'm using the most efficient methods to build once I start that process. i'm kind of using the next month or so to build a solid routine and learn as much as possible about the "art of building mass"... cause i'd like to hold off until the end of august to start bulking. its something i've always struggled with, and blame most of it on my "lack of calories"... but know that I probably don't have the most efficient routine. ready to make changes in all areas to maximize growth. also... i'm looking for a change of pace in general, but want to make sure i'm not wasting time... if that makes any sense.
 
buzz said:
some info to read on here
basicly as far as faliure is concerned 8rm down there is no need because all fibres are engaged (just do enough sets )
higher reps go to faliure now and then not every session.

http://training.fitness.com/weight-...ity-volume-mode-muscle-hypertrophy-27267.html
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wow... that article helps me a ton buzz. sheds some light on a lot of questions i have about my routine. thanks!!! repped.
 
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