Darth Pooh, Sith Lord of the Honey Pot
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Darth Pooh
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yup, that's me!
I suppose I wanna ask you if you feel hungry when you're on his plan? Does the deficit "feel" like one?
Does his UD2 also come with a gym routine? I am excited for the books as you can tell.
I suppose I wanna ask you if you feel hungry when you're on his plan? Does the deficit "feel" like one?
Does his UD2 also come with a gym routine? I am excited for the books as you can tell.
I was hungry on the low calorie days. The training is pretty intense and builds up an appetite. But it's so short-lived b/c a giant refeed is right around the corner each damn week which makes compliance relatively easy.
Yes, there is a workout outlined in the book as well.
Lyle's books are unbelievably thorough and educational. You'll have a ton of fun with them.
Yes, there is a workout outlined in the book as well.
Lyle's books are unbelievably thorough and educational. You'll have a ton of fun with them.
Darth Pooh
New member
Training I can always handle. I love that physical push in the gym...
what I am confused by is the "low calorie days", so is this a low cal / low carb diet too? I would think that a low calorie day on CKD is something like 2000 calories? Since you are in ketosis (perhaps for a short period, even with refeeds), the fat burning is more distinct than say a straight caloric deficit, so how low are those low cal days?
Also, how long does a UD2 cycle last?
I know, I know, I am getting the books, but I am so curious it's killing me!
what I am confused by is the "low calorie days", so is this a low cal / low carb diet too? I would think that a low calorie day on CKD is something like 2000 calories? Since you are in ketosis (perhaps for a short period, even with refeeds), the fat burning is more distinct than say a straight caloric deficit, so how low are those low cal days?
Also, how long does a UD2 cycle last?
I know, I know, I am getting the books, but I am so curious it's killing me!
Yes. And you really have to read the book to get a full understanding. There are more chapters explaining the physiology behind all this than there are chapters explaining the program, so you'll learn a ton.
It all depends on the individual. From what I remember, on the low carb days you're cutting calories by 50% from maintenance.
And you're doing ridiculously high volume training (pumping and toning isolation crap too) that makes you want to vomit.
Fun stuff.
I forget if Lyle throws out a recommended time period to use this approach. I can't why you couldn't use it for an extended period of time though. I used it for months.
I think you'll be surprised by the comlexity of this diet. It's not something to jump into until you fully understand it. You're a smart guy and will without a doubt be fine... just be prepared for the complexity.
Darth Pooh
New member
I am looking forward to the read, since I start a bulk in a few weeks and won't start UD2 until April or so, I feel like I'll have a good amount of time to really get into it and know the program.
HOLY FUCK STICKS!... 50% of maintenance with training added in or without? Because with training, that is about 1500-1600 calories for me... and without training it's somewhere close to 1200!!!
Interesting... because when I do HIIT, it kicks my ass, but doesn't make me want to throw up either (like most people says it does), and at first I thought I was getting it wrong, but apparently my heart rate gets into the low 180's when I get into a 1 minute sprint at about 13-14 mph. So I am def doing it right... I think I have a high tolerance for shit like that.
Good, I am thinking it's a good cut until July or so... from April to July. Then start eating maintenance from July to September, then begin a new bulk? Dunno, I have a two year plan of being 190-195 @ 11% or less.
I hope the few months I have from Dec - April will be enough to really get the context and complexity of it down like second nature.
HOLY FUCK STICKS!... 50% of maintenance with training added in or without? Because with training, that is about 1500-1600 calories for me... and without training it's somewhere close to 1200!!!
With exercise I presume since, again if memory serves me right, Lyle uses the very basic forumula I use around here of maintenance being 14-16 calories per pound. Those numbers include exercise.
He explains to the reader that you can use the above formula if you don't already know your maintenance and to tweak those numbers if you feel you have a slow metabolism, etc.
Come talk to me after you've done depletion workouts (which is a different kind of pain than HIIT) on this calorie/carb intake.
It's a different beast.
From what I remember I never felt like vomitting but I did get light headed like a mother.
My training partner, who was doing the program with me, did vomit twice in week 1. After that he was good.
Depletion workouts suck no matter how you slice them.
If you say so...
I don't put time frames on such things. I just go until my body tells me it's time to change things or outside factors like a vacation or the like warrant a cut or something of that nature.
Darth Pooh
New member
I think my metabolism was just fine actually, just used the excuse for years of bad eating to poor genetics. I mean, I do put on fat easily, but I think if I stay active that isn't an issue. It's when I stop moving that weight piles on.
I love me a good challenge
It's also something I've never done before, so I find a real thrill in routines that are different. I suppose that is why I am looking forward to the bulk soon (besides the extra 700-800 calories a day )I dunno, it's a long term goal that I'd like to work towards to. I feel that it is flexible and can change, but two years, I can do whatever I think I need to do to ultimately reach that goal. I also think that since I am still entirely new to this scene (even though I have been doing it for over two years now) that I like to stay focused on something because if I don't, I tend to focus on negative aspects (I.E., loose skin, so if I say I am working towards more lean muscle mass with lowered body fat, that could help the loose skin, as opposed to complaining about it all the time).
I get that. Long terms goals are important as all hell. As long as you're flexible with them.
I have long term goals in terms of weight and body fat but I suppose I don't put a time frame on them. Which isn't right or wrong. For some a time frame solidifies the realness of the goal.
For me though, my goals are always real and I'm not entirely sure how long it will take me to reach them. My short term goals and other things keep me motivated on the day to day basis and direct me toward my longer term goals.
It's just how I operate.
I have long term goals in terms of weight and body fat but I suppose I don't put a time frame on them. Which isn't right or wrong. For some a time frame solidifies the realness of the goal.
For me though, my goals are always real and I'm not entirely sure how long it will take me to reach them. My short term goals and other things keep me motivated on the day to day basis and direct me toward my longer term goals.
It's just how I operate.
Darth Pooh
New member
I think I am so eager at this point, I might have put a time frame on it due to that. The other issue is, I am obviously concerned about the loose skin... so at what point do I eventually say, ok, time for surgery? So, I said to my wife, that I felt like two years of trying to add mass / cut fat should give me an indication of whether this will tighten out. It is preventing a lot of happiness in life on a small scale basis and she feels that if it would make me happy in that regards, I should have the surgery. That being said, I feel that I can work it to the point that I am happy via the above methods.
I think the two years is more of a time frame in the sense of counting down to surgery, which I want to avoid, hence the long time frame. I mean, I could have it now and my six pack would be evident (which is amazing that I can see), but at 10-11% bf, you would think I'd be able to see a lot more than I do.
I think the two years is more of a time frame in the sense of counting down to surgery, which I want to avoid, hence the long time frame. I mean, I could have it now and my six pack would be evident (which is amazing that I can see), but at 10-11% bf, you would think I'd be able to see a lot more than I do.
I'll have to send you some pictures of me at 10-11%. My abs aren't very visible at that stage. It's based heavily on genetics, unfortunately. For my abs to be exposed nicely, I need to be at a level of leanness that is not attainable year round. At least not a level I care to try and maintain year round.
On another note, I do understand why you set up the 2 year goal. Makes perfect sense.
On another note, I do understand why you set up the 2 year goal. Makes perfect sense.
Darth Pooh
New member
I heart you Steve.
Darth Pooh
New member
Hmmm, kinda what I have going on, but with a bit more mushy... wonder if it's loose skin on me or just more fat pockets.
Hard to say. Probably a combo.
I'm telling you... I'm lean to the extent you can see defined abs a vast minority of the year. I just don't care enough. I used to care a whole lot. But now I'm more in it to look decent, be strong, feel good, etc.
Not that there's anything wrong with being chiseled. It's just for me, what it takes to obtain that look, at least in my mid section, isn't worth it most of the time.
It's all about sacrifices.
I'm telling you... I'm lean to the extent you can see defined abs a vast minority of the year. I just don't care enough. I used to care a whole lot. But now I'm more in it to look decent, be strong, feel good, etc.
Not that there's anything wrong with being chiseled. It's just for me, what it takes to obtain that look, at least in my mid section, isn't worth it most of the time.
It's all about sacrifices.
Darth Pooh
New member
I think I just want chiseled at least once in my lifetime just to say it's something I can achieved, than I can refocus on strength and overall well being. I dunno, I know it sounds like a shit priority, but I'd like to really try it just once yano?
Oh you don't have to sell me on that at all. Once per year I usually get nice and ripped. My desires change with the wind. Strenght and performance is always the foundation and physique enhancement is always a bug I catch now and again... hence why you find me cutting and bulking.
If all I cared about was strength, you'd rarely see me cut.
If all I cared about was strength, you'd rarely see me cut.
Darth Pooh
New member
And not to sound stupid, I am not sure if I ever want to really be able to push over 275-300 lbs on a bench... I see that as a good way to just mess up my joints for later in life. Maybe I am wrong on that point, but if I could push out 250, I would be happy. Right now, my max strength in the bench is about 210, maybe 220. That's one rep... I haven't tried in a long time. In the dumbbell bench press, I am getting up 65-70's 3-4 sets of 12,10,8,8. I don't know how it translates but, I am sure it is no where near the bench itself.
I am also super jealous of your ability to eat 4000-5000 calories on a bulk
That's actually not too shabby with the weights.
In my experience there's not a lot of translation b/t db and bb work when it comes to benching. I used to have a training partner who would smoke me in terms of dbs. On bb though, I'd destroy him.
I've been benching heavy for a long while now and I can't say it's caused any problems to my joints. I do know, however, when to push it and when to back off.
And I'm not afraid to drop the bench from my programming for a while if my body is telling me too.
In my experience there's not a lot of translation b/t db and bb work when it comes to benching. I used to have a training partner who would smoke me in terms of dbs. On bb though, I'd destroy him.
I've been benching heavy for a long while now and I can't say it's caused any problems to my joints. I do know, however, when to push it and when to back off.
And I'm not afraid to drop the bench from my programming for a while if my body is telling me too.
Darth Pooh
New member
There is a guy at my gym, who wants to start a new bulk program... its funny that you mentioned that. I am afraid that I'll hold him back (the guy lifts heavy) and I am so new to this all that I don't want to be a burden.
As far as dbs vs bb, I felt that I wasn't gaining anything on the bb, so I moved over to the dbs, I feel better over there and the little twist at the top helps me make it a compound move as well.
I also know that since I am so new, I might not know when to push vs back off. It's obvious that comes with time and experience.