Cutting out cardio for fat loss

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dyermaker1

New member
I was wondering if you guys could take a look at this article and tell me what you think. It really changed my opinion... I'm wanting to stop doing cardio, besides maybe a couple days a week of LIT (for my heart's sake) and wanted to get some opinions on this before I take the leap, as I've currently been doing LIT cardio for 30 minutes everyday. My idea is to basically just do a hell of a lot more strength training and eat 500 calories below maintenence. This is an intresting tid-bit from the article... the link is below.

"30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week – 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories, or in real terms, 6.6 lbs of fat- in six months! Hardly slimmer of the year material! If doing the cardio fasted, burned 30% more calories (which it doesn’t, but lets say it does for the purpose of making it seem better than it really is!), you’re looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period, or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.
Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn’t do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you’re hungry. Luckily, restricted calorie intake coupled with progressive resistance exercise does.
Studies have estimated that for each pound of muscle that you add to your body, you burn an additional 40 to 70 calories per day. So, an extra 10 pounds of muscle will burn approximately 400 to 700 calories a day, or an extra pound of fat every 5 to 9 days, without making any other changes. That is 72,000-126,000 calories. In another study, researchers found that regular weight training boosts basal metabolic rate by about 15%. This is because muscle is ‘metabolically active ‘ and burns more calories than other body tissue even when you’re not moving. So if you add 10lbs of muscle to your frame, hardly a massive amount- just over half a stone, you will be burning 20-36lbs of fat in six months, compared to the 6.6-8.6lbs of fat that you would burn with 3 half hour cardio sessions per week.
An intense session of cardiovascular exercise will burn around 300 calories, depending on the individual. The calorie counter on the machine may say it’s more, but don’t even get me started on why those things are wrong! Armed with this information, why should you pound the treadmill or exercise bike for 30 minutes, working yourself into a sweaty mess, when you can simply drop those calories from your daily intake? You will notice almost no difference in your daily food intake and can spend the extra 30 minutes working on building that vital calorie-burning muscle!"
 
There's a lot of "extra" stuff in the article and its pretty long so I took what, in my mind, was the most important and here it is...

"Resistance Training is better than cardio for fat loss…

To start with, a person’s weight tells us very little about their body composition. It gives us no idea of their body fat percentage or their lean body mass (muscle, bone etc). It is a well-known fact that muscle tissue is heavier than fat tissue. This explains how a competing bodybuilder can weigh over 17 stone yet only have 3% body fat- it is for this reason I don’t like the term ‘weight loss’, as it actually means very little- because you weigh less it doesn’t actually mean you are in better shape. The idea behind cardio for weight loss is that you burn calories through doing the exercise, helping to create the required deficit. Conceivably, they may lose a few pounds, but how much actual fat have they lost and how much muscle have they lost? When a person performs cardio exercise, the weight they lose is always going to be a mixture of fat and muscle.

Why?

The human body can be in one of two states- anabolic or catabolic. To explain these very basically, Anabolic means building or growing, hence the term anabolic steroids, which are used to chemically aid muscle growth. Catabolic means shrinking- this is shrinking of muscle tissue. When we perform cardiovascular exercise, we enter a catabolic state, shedding muscle. The basic reason for this is because the human body will adapt to the stimuli we expose it to. When we lift heavy weights, we stimulate the body to produce muscle to help us lift easier. When we run long distances, we lose muscle, as muscles require lots of energy, which cannot be supplied during a long run, unless of course you eat mars bars as you plod along the treadmill. You can see this for yourself- when was the last time you saw a marathon runner with a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger? The same goes for the weight lifters- when have you seen a power lifter with a body like Paula Radcliffe? They were not born with their respective bodies- their training for their sports shaped them that way. Don’t believe me? Why do sportsmen and women often get fat when they retire? They are just like you and me, but were in better shape because they trained harder and ate a scientific diet! When they stop, middle age spread hits them just like anyone else!

‘Fasted’ Cardio is better for fat loss…

Why would somebody say this?

The ‘theory’ behind this is that if the body has no food inside it, it will have to use fat stores straight away, therefore burning more fat. I will let you into a little secret…..

When we eat food, it is broken down into simple molecules then absorbed into the blood stream where it is transported and used for its respective job, be it repairing tissues, providing muscles with energy or any other job that it may be used for. All foods are broken down into simple sugars called glycogen and glucose. When the body has taken its required nutrients for growth and repair, the left over is stored as glycogen in two places- the muscles and the liver. Studies have shown that the body stores enough energy in the form of glycogen to allow a person to exercise very intensely for up to 1 hour. In order to burn fat as the major fuel resource, a person would have to be totally fasted and then train at an intensity level that would make an Olympic athlete foam at the mouth for 1 HOUR. Only then would they start burning more fat than carbohydrate (sugar)!

Think that’s bad enough? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but when the body burns fat as its primary resource, it enters into a state called ketosis. This HURTS! You may be familiar with the term ‘hitting the wall’. This is when the body runs out of glycogen and starts to burn fat for energy. It is associated with ultra-long distance events such as marathons and triathlons, where after a few hours of activity the body runs out of glycogen and burns fat. Hitting the wall is so painful that a world record holder over various running distances, Haile Gabri Selassie, had to pull out of the London Marathon when he hit the wall. There are plenty of examples where experienced athletes have given up in the middle of a race thanks to hitting the wall. People have been known to cramp up, pass out and even wet themselves. My point is, if a world record holding runner struggled after entering ketosis, then a person who has been training for a few measly months doesn’t really stand much of a chance!

Rest assured, the average gym goer would struggle to do even a quarter of the required work to make this happen. Fasted cardio in practice sounds like a good idea, but when you actually think about it, it really isn’t!

Is the real reason a person is still fat is because they couldn’t decide whether to do cardio on an empty stomach or not? Nope. 30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week – 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories, or in real terms, 6.6 lbs of fat- in six months! Hardly slimmer of the year material!

If doing the cardio fasted, burned 30% more calories (which it doesn’t, but lets say it does for the purpose of making it seem better than it really is!), you’re looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period, or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.

Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn’t do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you’re hungry.

Luckily, restricted calorie intake coupled with progressive resistance exercise does.

Studies have estimated that for each pound of muscle that you add to your body, you burn an additional 40 to 70 calories per day. So, an extra 10 pounds of muscle will burn approximately 400 to 700 calories a day, or an extra pound of fat every 5 to 9 days, without making any other changes. That is 72,000-126,000 calories. In another study, researchers found that regular weight training boosts basal metabolic rate by about 15%. This is because muscle is ‘metabolically active ‘ and burns more calories than other body tissue even when you’re not moving. So if you add 10lbs of muscle to your frame, hardly a massive amount- just over half a stone, you will be burning 20-36lbs of fat in six months, compared to the 6.6-8.6lbs of fat that you would burn with 3 half hour cardio sessions per week.

An intense session of cardiovascular exercise will burn around 300 calories, depending on the individual. The calorie counter on the machine may say it’s more, but don’t even get me started on why those things are wrong! Armed with this information, why should you pound the treadmill or exercise bike for 30 minutes, working yourself into a sweaty mess, when you can simply drop those calories from your daily intake? You will notice almost no difference in your daily food intake and can spend the extra 30 minutes working on building that vital calorie-burning muscle!

I don’t wish to say that cardio does not have its place- it does. What I am trying to establish is that for fat loss, weight training and controlled nutrition is a much better option. If you want to be a better runner, then cardio is for you! If you want to be leaner, try the weights approach.

I have backed up this method with lab-based studies in university over three years and I have used it professionally for three. Six years of success are no fluke."

... Thoughts?
 
I think you are on the right track. Cardio burns very little kcal for the amount of time you spend, and it doesn't build muscle other than your heart muscle. To me, it's more or less a waste of time for weight loss. Yes, cardio is good for working your heart muscle, but that doesn't require 5 times a week for an hour at a time.

Building muscle by resistance training, on the other hand, is very good. Muscles burn fat on their own (assuming that simple carb intake is kept to a minimum, otherwise the stored fat can not be accessed to feed the muscles), and the more muscle you have the more fat you burn. Fat does not burn fat on it's own.
 
I think that number of calories for muscle fat burning is off (more like 7 calories/pound) - however, I do agree that if you had to choose between strength training and higher intensity cardio while losing fat, the strength training is the way to go.

However, I don't know that doing a 'hell of a lot' of strength training is optimal either. First, you're going to be in a caloric deficit, so while you may gain some muscle, realistically it won't be that much. Why? Because it's very difficult to gain muscle while in a caloric deficit. It's not impossible - I've done it - but you really don't need the same volume of strength training. You just need to make sure you're using heavier weights - ideal is over 70% of your 1 rep max.

As for the cardio, it's still worth doing because it tends to help you stay on track with your diet. Or at least, studies have shown that people who exercise are better at staying on their diet.

Definitely you want to lose fat and not muscle if at all possible, and strength training is an important part of that. The other part is sufficient protein intake. Your body can turn protein into glucose, but it can't turn carbs into protein. So if you don't have enough protein in your diet, you won't even have the building blocks to increase your muscle, and possibly not even enough to maintain it.

Hope this helps!
 
welcome to my world. I've been saying this on the forum for a while now, and in real life for years. Most people still don't get it and it can be frustrating trying the fight "you lose fat with cardio" mantra thats so prevalent. But that article is 100% true.

Like it or not, the caloric and fat burn from resistance training kicks the snot out of cardio every day of week and twice on sunday. Study after study comparing the two confirms this..

However, this comes with a few cavats.

1) Weight training needed for effective fat loss is NOT just taking some average weights around and moving them. The body has different energy systems that are used for doing work required of it, and it's the energy systems that are called on to do intense extreme work is where the magic of fat loss occurs. Taking pink dumbells and curling them is a waste of time. As is doing most machines and isolation based exercises. The body just isn't using much energy to do those movements. However, sprinting your ass off ballz to the wall on a track, resting 10 sec, then doing it again does use these energy systems, as does loading up your body weight on a barbell and squatting it till you can't stand, or putting a rope 2' (or whatever is almost out of reach for your best jump) and trying to jump and touch it as many times as you can in 1min, deadlifting your body weight, pushing your car in neutral down the street, full pullups, tabata pushups, etc. These are all types of training and exercises that will use and stress the energy systems used by the body for extreme caloric burn and intense work. Namely the atp-cp and lactic acid energy systems.

2) As you see above, MOST PEOPLE CANNOT DO THIS TYPE OF TRAINING. They aren't in good enough shape, don't have the coordination, are hurt, untrained for proper movements, etc. So getting a 300lbs woman, whos never squatted in her life, and loading her up with weight is just straight up a bad idea. Yes technically it's the best thing for her if she were actually physically capable of doing it. but in reality, most people just can't train that way until a long ways down the road. So for the vast majority of the population, cardio, while the least effective method of training for fat loss, is the best method of training for fat loss _for them_.

I also need to reiterate again that resistance training where you do a machine circuit, or a body builder type 3x10 split where arms have their own day, or a multitude of other training types that 99% of magazines will list as "resistance training" are completely garbage. They are NOT the resistance training that the article probably refers to and that most of the studies I read refer too when comparing calorie burn from cardio vs weights. So throw your magazine out and read Steve's "The Conceptual Side of Weight Lifting" article in this forum..

As a general rule, when you're doing a resistance movement, if you notice that your performance starts to degrade rapidly after 10-20sec, then what you're doing is prob a good indication of the intensity you want for your resistance movements. Take pushing your car for example, how long can you push at 100% intensity before you just start to give out and lose a ton of power? Tabata pushups are an amazing indicator of this as well. Basically it's 20 second active, 10 seconds rest, where you try and do as many pushups as you possibly can in those 20 seconds. When I do them, it normally goes like this: 30, 29, 25, 4, 10. I hit this monster wall at 3rd set. If you're able to do the same with finding that wall, thats the intensity you want.
 
Jynus said:
1) Weight training needed for effective fat loss is NOT just taking some average weights around and moving them. The body has different energy systems that are used for doing work required of it, and it's the energy systems that are called on to do intense extreme work is where the magic of fat loss occurs. However, sprinting your ass off ballz to the wall on a track, resting 10 sec, then doing it again does use these energy systems, as does loading up your body weight on a barbell and squatting it till you can't stand, or putting a rope 2' (or whatever is almost out of reach for your best jump) and trying to jump and touch it as many times as you can in 1min, deadlifting your body weight, pushing your car in neutral down the street, full pullups, tabata pushups, etc. These are all types of training and exercises that will use and stress the energy systems used by the body for extreme caloric burn and intense work. Namely the atp-cp and lactic acid energy systems.
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Thanks so much for the reply. I was unaware that you had to be at that maximum intensity for maximum fat loss. I haven't been pushing myself like that when I lift. Its funny that so many people recommend LIT for that "magic" fat loss range. Then others say maximum intensity like HITT is best. I guess the debate will never end...

One other question, off topic somewhat, but you seem really knowledgeable. I found the following off of an article and it makes sense but had never heard of this particular method before. Currently, (main goal is fat loss) my nutrition ratios are around 50/p 35/f 25/c, but this article is making me think I should have my healthy fats exceed my protein (but of course still get a lot of protein). What do you think?

"For a really effective fat loss program, you need to think about what you're doing on both sides of that equation, not just one side.

"On the calories in side of the equation, if you have a typical high protein, low carb, diet that many of us do and you stay with that in calorie restriction, your body will become "protein adapted" and it will favor protein as an energy source. Obviously this is not a good thing because your body needs to make up for the missing calories by consuming itself and if it is protein adapted, it is going to favor consuming protein (your muscles) over consuming its fat. So as strange as it may seem, lowering your protein percentage of calories and raising your fat percentage of calories will help you to become "fat adapted" so your body favors fat as an energy source. I'm not saying to cut out protein, I'm just saying that you need to shift the percentages around so that you're getting more calories from fat than from protein. Remember that you're not trying to lose weight, you're trying to lose fat and doing the things that allow you to keep the muscle you have while in calorie restriction are not the same things you do when you're trying to add new muscle and are in calorie balance. Don't forget that you're still counting calories and keeping in calorie deficit. As long as you stay in calorie deficit, you're going to lose weight, even if the only things you ate were snickers bars. Obviously, the snickers diet isn't a healthy diet, so you need to stay with a good, solid, nutrition program, you just will want to shift the percentages around a bit. And when I talk about the fat in your diet, I mean a healthy mix of saturated, mono-unsaturated and poly-unsaturated fats."

Thoughts?
 
My favorite quote from a man who knows what he's talking about when it comes to fat loss:

... you will get far more benefit from actually doing SOMETHING than spending endless time trying to figure out 'what's best'. People waste weeks and months worrying endlessly about irrelevant details when what they should be doing is acting.
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You can debate these details endlessly, but none of it will do jack for you if you're spending all your time debating the details and not acting. You're better off doing some cardio and some weight training ... and seeing results ... than trying to figure out fat loss to the n'th degree.
 
KaraCooks said:
My favorite quote from a man who knows what he's talking about when it comes to fat loss:

You can debate these details endlessly, but none of it will do jack for you if you're spending all your time debating the details and not acting. You're better off doing some cardio and some weight training ... and seeing results ... than trying to figure out fat loss to the n'th degree.
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I like to make sure what I'm doing is giving me the most bang for my buck. And I've spent about an hour tops on these forums... TOTAL. So I think I'm doing okay.
 
When you're talking about fat loss here, you're talking about a teeny tiny fraction of a percentage. Really. It doesn't make that much difference.
 
If you do 30 minuets of Cardio, doing intervals and high intensity, to the point where you would rather be able to stop than win the lottery you will burn your 300 i would say more if you are doing high intensity. Then the key to this is, after you finish, your heart will still be racing, there will be some different scientific reactions in your body and you will burn a high rate of calories for the next hour, while you are not running. So doing 30 strong can be like doing an hour and a half meaning you will actually be burning at least double calories from that 30 minuets that you burnt while actually doing the cardio. This i guess by your numbers would lead to 13 pounds of fat in 6 months which is not bad. Secondly you said something about, you are not building muscle well except for heart muscle. UMMM last time i checked that would proly be a very very good thing, adding years on to your life, not to mention a good cardio routine will give you extra energy for every day activities, therefore you will be more active with your extra energy, therefor burning ever more calories. Plus the best part is this is based on 3 days of the week, this gives you another 4 to lift. Put on your 10 pounds, use the extra calories you burned running to eat some extra protein to help the muscle grow and.....baad a bing battta boom your in shape, living longer. This is a case where you can have the best of both worlds, if you are a person looking to "get out of cardio" chances are you don't have the will power to say on a diet and make a lifestyle change
 
No, I don't hate you. I don't generally waste emotion hating people I don't know.

Let's take this line by line.

If you do 30 minuets of Cardio, doing intervals and high intensity, to the point where you would rather be able to stop than win the lottery you will burn your 300 i would say more if you are doing high intensity.
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The number of calories someone burns is based on intensity and their current weight, plus the type of cardio they're doing. You cannot tell someone that doing cardio until they want to collapse will burn 300 calories, because it might not. Someone who is badly out o shape is going to pass out before they get to 300 calories. Someone who is extremely overweight might not be able to do cardio at that level.

The advice you give is incorrect as well as being irresponsible.

Then the key to this is, after you finish, your heart will still be racing, there will be some different scientific reactions in your body and you will burn a high rate of calories for the next hour, while you are not running. So doing 30 strong can be like doing an hour and a half meaning you will actually be burning at least double calories from that 30 minuets that you burnt while actually doing the cardio.
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This is just utterly and completely wrong. There's nothing else I can say about it.

Secondly you said something about, you are not building muscle well except for heart muscle. UMMM last time i checked that would proly be a very very good thing, adding years on to your life, not to mention a good cardio routine will give you extra energy for every day activities, therefore you will be more active with your extra energy, therefor burning ever more calories.
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This just makes no sense whatsoever. Not building muscle means you're adding years on to your lie and having more energy for daily activities? Um ... what?

Plus the best part is this is based on 3 days of the week, this gives you another 4 to lift. Put on your 10 pounds, use the extra calories you burned running to eat some extra protein to help the muscle grow and.....baad a bing battta boom your in shape, living longer.
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So doing cardio plus putting on 10 lbs and then use the extra calories to eat more protein which helps muscles grow? Um ... again ... what? That's not even close to accure.

If you are a person looking to "get out of cardio" chances are you don't have the will power to say on a diet and make a lifestyle change
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And that's just rude and insulting, not to mention wrong.

Read Jynus's post above again and then read Steve's sticky thread about the Conceptual Side of Weight Lifting.

While cardio is less effective overall than the RIGHT KIND of weight lifting, most people are not able or willing to do the kind of weight lifting necessary to completely replace cardio when it comes to fat loss. For the vast majority of people a combination of weight lifting and body resistance work and cardio is just right.

Not to mention that there are benefits to cardio that are above and beyond just the fat burning.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again ... fatmanvsbighill, you need to spend less time mouthing off about things that you don't have the first clue about, and more time reading and learning. Seriously.
 
If you're really interested in learning about this stuff for the sake of learning (and I'm all about that) ... then you should read through the articles here:



Also check out his forum. If you're really interested in the minutia of fat loss and weight lifting and so forth, Lyle is pretty much the expert in the field.
 
fatmanvsbighill said:
if you are a person looking to "get out of cardio" chances are you don't have the will power to stay on a diet and make a lifestyle change
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People are able to want to "get out of cardio" and still have the will to maintain a healthy diet, strength train, lead a naturally gym-free active lifestyle, etc. I've been doing cardio six days a week along with weight training for the past 6 months, my diet is spotless, and I've lost a good deal of weight... but I continue to learn new things and tweak my diet/fitness regime. I've found evidence leading me to believe that for fat loss, specifically, cardio isn't the best option. I may be wrong, I may be right, but its not a laziness thing. I'm aware of how this whole willpower thing works and I also have the intellect to spell and form sentences better than a first grader... but thanks sweetie!
 
Well actually anyone can do high intensity, because High intensity for me is not high intensity for Bruce Jenner. A 300 pounder high intensity might mean walking 3 miles a hour and possibly a light job, anybody can push there limit to the max. So i think anyone can get to the half hour mark. Plus if you are heavier you will burn more than 300, really fat ppl who walk 200 yards lose 9 pounds.

Yes after you finish your cardio, your body will be in an alerted state, evolution does not know about fancy gyms and treadmills. So for a good while after your body will be pumping and working harder therefore you will burn calories even after you quit.

No, i said the other guy said that you do not build muscle while running except for heart muscle. I said that is a great thing to build heart muscle because it is a pretty important thing and will add years on to your life. If you do cardio you will have more energy, more energy means you will do more things, which means with your energy instead of being on the computer you will go out and garden or do charity work which will burn more calories than just sitting there

Yes, to build muscle you need Protein to feed your muscle, that is why body builders use high protein shakes and stuff. So yes you should run and lift, you will put on muscle which burns more calories, plus you will be doing cardio which will be burning calories, you can not lift every day so why not do cardio the others. I am saying that you will be buring calories running, so you will have more room for a protein shake or a nice steak, if your just lifting you are creating less of a calorie deficit. I dont know how that is not close to accurate.

My last comment is true, it shows a lack of will power.


Not to mention that there are benefits to cardio that are above and beyond just the fat burning. That was almost my whole argument that you called wrong.

Yes anyone can do the right kind of lifting, its all about maxing your self out, not doing what maxes out Tiger Woods
 
fatmanvsbighill said:
Well actually anyone can do high intensity, because High intensity for me is not high intensity for Bruce Jenner. A 300 pounder high intensity might mean walking 3 miles a hour and possibly a light job, anybody can push there limit to the max. So i think anyone can get to the half hour mark. Plus if you are heavier you will burn more than 300, really fat ppl who walk 200 yards lose 9 pounds.
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I'm sure that there are people who can burn 300 calories in 30 minutes. I doubt that I could. I weigh over 300lbs, and it takes me about an hour of pretty intense (for me) cardio to burn 300 calories. I could probably do a light jog for a short amount of time now, but jogging is not a good idea for my joints at my current weight.

And losing 9lbs. by walking 200 yards? I think that anyone who is heavy enough to do that is not even going to be physically able to get themselves out of bed, let alone walk 200 yards.
 
KaraCooks said:
If you're really interested in learning about this stuff for the sake of learning (and I'm all about that) ... then you should read through the articles here:



Also check out his forum. If you're really interested in the minutia of fat loss and weight lifting and so forth, Lyle is pretty much the expert in the field.
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Awesome, thanks!
 
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