Crunches - The Real Story

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Socrates1

New member
Okay, so there's obviously a lot of debate about whether crunches are effective, to what extent and in what way. I think it's pretty accepted that crunches will not spot-reduce fat or help you lose weight (significantly, anyway.) So, what are they good for? I know if you've already lost as much weight as you safely can, they can help tone. So what if you've lost a lot of weight but still have a little to go? Or what if you have just started? Is there any benefit in either of those cases, or in any case where you're still losing weight? Again, it can't reduce fat, but if you have only a small amount of belly fat, will crunches help minimize it by adding muscle? Or will it just make your stomach strong? Does anyone have any experience and/or expertise here? FYI, this is partially for my personal use and partially because everyone I've asked about this was also unsure; it seems to be a pretty hard question to answer, at least in the realm of weight loss.
 
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The "minimum" purpose of an exercise is to keep joints moving, move that muscle (or muscle group) and strenghten the joints around the moving parts. Many of the "better" exercise programs do not focus on the same task that one uses every day. For example: walking. The better programs focus on muscles that do NOT get used during one's normal daily routine. For example, touching toes, leg squats, pushing hand weights, raised calves (standing on tippy toes), spinal / back twists, stomach sucked inward tasks (like invisible partner boxing), etc. etc. To keep all muscles and joints within the entire body strong, one's "rarely used" muscles need to be exercised. Like leg lifts, squats, crunches, push ups, stomach muscles, back arches, swimming (for full body and cardio increase), etc. etc.

The purpose of core body exercise ("every other day" - as minimum) isn't always to loose extra body fat or to "tone" a specific muscle group. It's to keep the entire body in "better" working order - just like our ancestors did (to chase down and wrestle their daily food).

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Personally, I think that crunches aren't good for much. You can use them as part of a calorie burning circuit training if you like them, but... Well, I personally don't do them.

That doesn't mean I don't work my abs at all, it means I focus more on stabilization because what you really want in core strength is stability, not the ability to lift lots of pounds or do tons of reps with your stomach.

is a good article on training your core for general fitness.

I personally do more pilates type exercises like planks for core stability, but the important part is having a strong foundation for everything else you do.
 
I focus more on stabilization because what you really want in core strength is stability, not the ability to lift lots of pounds or do tons of reps with your stomach.
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I'm with Jeanette to a large degree. I do some crunches, but I don't focus my core work on them. I do more full body stuff and then throw in some crunches at the end of my workouts more as a part of a cool-down routine. But as far as strengthening my core, I'd rather do planks, squats (freestanding, not on a smith machine or whatever), and other exercises that force me to build core strength for stability.
 
these is debate if crunches are effective?!? this is news to me. I'm pretty sure they've been discredited for years now as an inferior core exercise method.
 
are you kidding me???? My abs have drastically changed for the good over the last 4 months and this is due to a series of crunches, leg lifts, and side bends.


i stand behind crunches 100%. I think some people dont like them because they do not do them correctly. Also.... they dont make you lose fat. it tones muscles... but it you have alot of gut on your belly.... you wont notice a diff because your building your muscle underneath the fat. Get rid of the fat with cardio.... then once you are getting down to the muscles... then you start the crunches.


just my .02 cents. Feel free to flame away though...... all i know is it has worked for me... and my before and current pictures back up my statement.
 
regardless of what you think, ask any professional trainer with a degree in kinesology and biomechanics what his thoughts are on crunches. he will say they are garbage and never has any of his clients do them. they are an inferior exercise method for working your abs and should basically never be done. They put unnecessary stresses on the body and can easily be supplemented by other movements that work the abdominal area more effectively. leg lifts, crunches, side bends? wow, all concentric exercises. where are your eccentric ones? or your isometric ones? you're neglecting a huge part of core training by only doing concentric based movements.

so no, i am not kidding you. and yes, we all know spot reduction is impossible. there is no such thing as a "toning" exercise. you either build muscle, or you don't. and thats a byproduct of diet. not the exercise. work the muscle and eat to excess? muscle will grow. work the muscle and eat a deficit? muscle will hopefully stay the same but will prob lose a tiny bit, fat will shrink better showing off the definition of the existing muscle. also, cardio is not the only way to lose fat.
 
Jynus said:
regardless of what you think, ask any professional trainer with a degree in kinesology and biomechanics what his thoughts are on crunches. he will say they are garbage and never has any of his clients do them. they are an inferior exercise method for working your abs and should basically never be done. They put unnecessary stresses on the body and can easily be supplemented by other movements that work the abdominal area more effectively. leg lifts, crunches, side bends? wow, all concentric exercises. where are your eccentric ones? or your isometric ones? you're neglecting a huge part of core training by only doing concentric based movements.

so no, i am not kidding you. and yes, we all know spot reduction is impossible. there is no such thing as a "toning" exercise. you either build muscle, or you don't. and thats a byproduct of diet. not the exercise. work the muscle and eat to excess? muscle will grow. work the muscle and eat a deficit? muscle will hopefully stay the same but will prob lose a tiny bit, fat will shrink better showing off the definition of the existing muscle. also, cardio is not the only way to lose fat.
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Ooooooo k buddy. whatever you say. you are the expert here.
 
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Jynus said:
regardless of what you think, ask any professional trainer with a degree in kinesology and biomechanics what his thoughts are on crunches. he will say they are garbage and never has any of his clients do them. they are an inferior exercise method for working your abs and should basically never be done. They put unnecessary stresses on the body and can easily be supplemented by other movements that work the abdominal area more effectively. leg lifts, crunches, side bends? wow, all concentric exercises. where are your eccentric ones? or your isometric ones? you're neglecting a huge part of core training by only doing concentric based movements.

so no, i am not kidding you. and yes, we all know spot reduction is impossible. there is no such thing as a "toning" exercise. you either build muscle, or you don't. and thats a byproduct of diet. not the exercise. work the muscle and eat to excess? muscle will grow. work the muscle and eat a deficit? muscle will hopefully stay the same but will prob lose a tiny bit, fat will shrink better showing off the definition of the existing muscle. also, cardio is not the only way to lose fat.
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You know Jynus, your posts are fairly counter affective in regards, that if you personally do not agree with them, you completely shoot them down as being false even if someone has stated it has worked for them and that they too have proof.

Why not try giving some more evidence as to why we should also concentrate on isometric & eccentric movements as well...I just feel you're speaking to a large population on here that, Yes probably doesn't know what they're doing incorrectly.


leg lifts, crunches, side bends? wow, all concentric exercises. where are your eccentric ones? or your isometric ones? you're neglecting a huge part of core training by only doing concentric based movements.

AND this last one, C'mon, I mean she was giving an example, to say wow, like she doesn't know what she is doing, and speaking down to ppl isn't going to do much good.

*Not everyone wants to build their muscles* (in an excessive amount all over)

I agree with M_Marie that they've worked quite well for me also. I am still learning here too, so I have a lot of time for correction along this path. ;)
 
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*Not everyone wants to build their muscles*
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If you're doing crunches to get muscle definition in your abdomen, then it's fairly obvious that you DO want to build your muscles. :)

Not trying to step into the middle of a slanging match here, but just thought this comment was kind of odd, considering.
 
Oh F*&%:banghead:, LOL I knew from the moment I put that in, there was going to be debate, do I get a star? :D

HERE: *Not everyone wants to build their muscles* (in an excessive amount all over) but of course this is a *Crunches* thread, so I need not even bring this up....blah blah blah ;)

I meant in the way I was answering this>>>>[I]work the muscle and eat to excess? muscle will grow. work the muscle and eat a deficit? muscle will hopefully stay the same but will prob lose a tiny bit, fat will shrink better showing off the definition of the existing muscle. [/I]
 
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RunningGirl said:
You know Jynus, your posts are fairly counter affective in regards, that if you personally do not agree with them, you completely shoot them down as being false even if someone has stated it has worked for them and that they too have proof.

Why not try giving some more evidence as to why we should also concentrate on isometric & eccentric movements as well...I just feel you're speaking to a large population on here that, Yes probably doesn't know what they're doing incorrectly.


leg lifts, crunches, side bends? wow, all concentric exercises. where are your eccentric ones? or your isometric ones? you're neglecting a huge part of core training by only doing concentric based movements.

AND this last one, C'mon, I mean she was giving an example, to say wow, like she doesn't know what she is doing, and speaking down to ppl isn't going to do much good.

*Not everyone wants to build their muscles* (in an excessive amount all over)

I agree with M_Marie that they've worked quite well for me also. I am still learning here too, so I have a lot of time for correction along this path. ;)
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regardless, i'm right. if people have a tough time handling the truth, it's really their problem, not mine. *not everyone wants to build their muscles* eh? Every time anyone uses the word "i want to tone" then they want to build there muscles to varying degrees. which is what, like _every_ post? so don't try to insult mine or anyone elses intelligence on here.

I was talking down to her, because in all honestly she's the one who challenged me. If you're going to blather nonsense completely contradicting something I say and not back it up with anything, then what do you expect me to do? I sure am not going to take it lying down, and at the very least, I have to say the truth just so that other beginners on here reading her might actually think crunches are good for something.

Bottom line, DO NOT DO CRUNCHES. There are a TON of other exercises you should do in their place. Leg raises being an example of a good concentric based exercises. Planks being a great example of an isometric based exercise and wheel rollouts being a great example on a eccentric based exercise. And these are the easier ones. Not the ones I would recommend myself or those who want pure core strength. For them they would be doing hanging weighted leg raises, lunges with weighted sagital, frontal and transverse torso rotations and very heavy squats and deadlifts. Nothing will build the core stronger than these exercises will. For pure abs though, I must admit the rolling wheel is pretty sweet, amazing burn.

this in a nutshell is why you don't do crunches. If this isn't scientific enough for you then by all means search through more biomechanical articles and they will say the same thing.
 
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Correlation is not causation.

This is important to keep in mind during your fitness pursuits.

Just b/c your "core" has improved during your pursuit, don't attribute it to what you *think* made the difference. Remember, there are many moving parts in this... we have various modes of exercise, food, calorie deficits, etc which all play a role.

Often times people attribute a specific success to one variable when in fact said success stems from something different all together.

A common example of this is abs during fat loss. In extreme light, take someone who is doing nothing but ab exercises and eating in a caloric deficit. After enough fat is lost, they'll start to see a great improvement in their core. In my experience, many will attribute their ab exercises to this when in fact the vast majority of the improvement came from the fat loss which came from the caloric deficit which for the most part came from the altered/controlled way of eating.
 
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Steve said:
Correlation is not causation.

This is important to keep in mind during your fitness pursuits.

Just b/c your "core" has improved during your pursuit, don't attribute it to what you *think* made the difference. Remember, there are many moving parts in this... we have various modes of exercise, food, calorie deficits, etc which all play a role.

Often times people attribute a specific success to one variable when in fact said success stems from something all together.

A common example of this is abs during fat loss. In extreme light, take someone who is doing nothing but ab exercises and eating in a caloric deficit. After enough fat is lost, they'll start to see a great improvement in their core. In my experience, many will attribute their ab exercises to this when in fact the vast majority of the improvement came from the fat loss which came from the caloric deficit which for the most part came from the altered/controlled way of eating.
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Steve. I appreciate this response. THIS is the proper way to communicate with people you disagree with. Effective communication skills make a world of difference!!! Thank you for explaining this to me. While I know that ab workouts alone dont make or break your core.... I did feel it made a difference. Obviously the other exercise i have been doing and my change in eating habits have all contributed to the bit of success ive had thus far. What types of things do you suggest to strengthen and improve the core?

Thanks! :)


I
 
M_Marie said:
Steve. I appreciate this response. THIS is the proper way to communicate with people you disagree with. Effective communication skills make a world of difference!!! Thank you for explaining this to me. While I know that ab workouts alone dont make or break your core.... I did feel it made a difference. Obviously the other exercise i have been doing and my change in eating habits have all contributed to the bit of success ive had thus far. What types of things do you suggest to strengthen and improve the core?
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Steve has that effect on people.

It depends. core is not thought of as being your abs anymore. Proper core training involves movements and patterns that are used as a basis for the 6 main movements for the human body. For example, your glutes are one of the major core muscles, a fact that many people don't realize. Why do we train your core, for stabilization of the body so the muscle work together as one complete kenetic chain? Well your glutes are very important to balance and stability in the body and interact with the torso on any balance movement. For a beginner, the best core exercises imo would be lunges with torso rotations and squats. That pretty much covers everything to some degree.

Here is a decent article that outlines a complete core workout. Ignore the fact that it's from a bodybuilding website, the exercises are universal. The only one that you really should have trouble with is blast straps, but the plank and wheel rollouts make good substitutes.


If you're looking for specific abdominal exercises then the wheel rollouts and hanging leg raises will chew you up and spit you out i find better than anything else.

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To expand on this, these last 6 months I've rarely done what most would consider "core" training. Wheel rollouts and the odd handle chop here and there, but very little. and zero training on bosoball or swiss ball as i consider them to be wholely useless unless it's for rehab or area specific conditioning (ankle strengthening for sports for example). But I have done a ton of heavy squats and lunges. One of the things I've noticed is that my balance is completely through the roof from it.. Some friends were messing around on swiss balls trying to stand on them and do squats, dared me to try. I had never tried one before, but end result, i was solid enough in my core that I just hopped on top and fired off like 10 reps. i'm told it's an amazing feat to be able to do this and something that you need to do a ton of core stabilization exercises for, yet i was so solid from doing just regular weighted squats on solid ground. Go figure.
 
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What types of things do you suggest to strengthen and improve the core?
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Full body resistance workouts will work your core. Squats, stepups, lunges, pushups, burpees, pikes ... that kind of thing. Planks are awesome for working your core (and I hate them, but they work) - there are a ton of variations of the plank as well that are killer. :)
 
Some great links have been given.

Most all of my core work deals with stabilization and anti-rotation.

The list of exercises that touch on these factors is pretty much endless.

Hell, I worked my core yesterday by doing single-arm dumbbell bench press. Sounds silly? Try it. Your core will "light up" trying to resist rotation to the side you're holding a dumbbell.

More traditional movements include pallof presses, woodchoppers, planks, rollouts (stability ball, wheel, or bar*), birddogs, cat-camels, etc.

*Rollouts tend to be very intense. I've actually seen people strain the ab muscles to the point of injury doing these. They're intense to the point where some of my clients/athletes don't do them at all depending on history or needs. Without a doubt I'd progress with them from stability ball to wheel to bar.

The big compound movements do call on the core as well so exercises that call for stabilization of the core during movement (which many have been mentioned above such as most any unilateral or bilateral leg work.
 
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