Conversation b/t me and gym owner

Steve

Steve

Member
Staff member
A gym I've been training at for close to a decade has finally decided to close it's doors, sadly. This left me "homeless" and I've been doing week long trials at all the various gyms.

I was told that one, in particular, would really suit my needs from numerous individuals. Boy were they wrong. Here is the first message from me to the sales associate who gave me the tour.... which she immediately passed along to the owner.

Realize that the owner is also the head personal trainer of the gym.

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Email exchange will follow below.
 
Hello Jennifer-

Monday you gave me a great presentation of what your gym has to offer. If you remember, I'm a "homeless" gym patron left over from the closure of Competitors Family Fitness.

Before I committed to your gym, I wanted to try one more facility; that being Valhalla Health & Fitness Club, a brand new facility located in Berks County.

Sorry to say, but I've decided to go with Valhalla.

As a personal trainer, and more importantly, someone who truly loves health and fitness.... I thought it would be fair for me to explain my reasons.

It was obvious that you, as well as the other staff/owners of XXXXXX strive for excellence and care a great deal about your members. That is very respectable.

And let me say again, your presentation of your facility was top notch. You are excellent at what you do. You made me feel very welcomed and it truly seemed like you cared. I can actually tell you that your presentation was better than the one I recieved at Valhalla.

Please understand that as negative as this message may seem, it's from a very experienced perspective. I can truly see/understand how all of your members are satisfied. For the average gym-goer your club appears excellent.

My experience comes from years of training myself and clients. There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to helping someone reach their health/fitness goals. However, as professionals, I feel that it is our job to "educate" members on optimal methods and allow them to modify/adapt these optimal approaches to match their likes, needs, constraints, etc.

The first thing that worried me about your facility was the small emphasis placed on free weight exercise. Free weight strength training is the backbone of health and fitness. This is my opinion which is shared by a majority of the top strength and fitness coaches in the industry.

If a gym could choose one piece of equipment aside from a treadmill, ellipitical, or the like for cardiovascular training.... it should be a power rack to do barbell exercises in. I mean, the free weight squat is the king of all exercises. Yet, your facility only had one squat rack.

I am certain that an owner of a facility would have one of two thoughts at this point:

1. He is right (which my guess would be rare unfortunately), or

2. We have to place the emphasis on what our clients want the most.

And with number 2, I would agree to an extent. But that extent is crossed when you de-emphasize something as important as strength training with free weights. Sadly, in many of the gyms in this area, the "free weight area" is earmarked for the big guys whom are actually the minority in the gym populations today. So it makes sense that gym owners don't cater to the minority.

My problem with this line of reasoning is this: I think it's the job of the professionals in this industry to teach clients/members what they "should" want. Not what they "do" want. Because what they do want is what they THINK is best, and in most cases, this happens to be the least optimal approach.

This will mean nothing if the people who "run the show" at your facility don't hold strength training in as high regards as I mention here. If that is the case, I'd love to ask why, aside from the fact that most "unknowing" members don't understand the functionality, benefits, practicality, etc that come from true strength training, and thus, they don't want to do it.

On top of this, I watched your trainers. During the short time I was there, it seemed that they pretty much stuck to the "machines" while training clients. I didn't quite understand the reasoning.... considering machines can never compare to the benefits drawn from the use of free weights.

Machines certainly have a time and place. But to be the primary component of a routine set up for a healthy individual is flawed. Even if the trainers wanted to train people "properly" with the use of free weights, how could they with such a small floor space earmarked for such training?

This is by no means a "low blow" to the training staff at XXXXXX, simply b/c I did not have enough time to witness everything. But from most of the "sights" I see in gyms today, trainers do basically what the clients want. Clients are afraid of free weights, so they aren't trained with free weights. That doesn't make sense to me, from my point of view, knowing what I know about free weight training and the benefits associated with it.

I've spent many years with my nose buried in research and science learning the laws of health and fitness. At the time, I learned to apply the science to the real world in order to get results. As I said above, there is certainly more than one way to skin a cat. Beyond certain basics of physiology, science plays little role in the practice of any exercise-based activity. This is where deductive reasoning and coaching skill come into play. Also remember that while there may be more than one road to a goal, most would prefer to take the one that has the least bumps and travels the shortest distance.

Unfortunately, I've lost a lot of hope for the fitness industry as a whole based on my experiences to date with personal trainers and fitness facilities. Catering to the clients needs is a must. Catering to their wants, without matching these wants to what's optimal and most effective, is a huge problem in this industry.

When you can walk into 5 of the 6 local "clubs" and notice how small an emphasis is placed on strength training..... red flags should shoot up everywhere! Worst yet, my bet is most "professionals" in the industry don't even realize what's happening. They're going with the flow of the client base.... even if that flow takes them to areas of training that are not ideal.

I know, I know.... by now you want me to just SHUT UP.

In case anyone cares, I thought I'd share just a fraction of why machines should never take the place of free weights.

Many of today's machines lock you into the machine's particular plane of motion. When overly used in a program for prolonged periods of time, this can develop something known as pattern overload syndrome.... a phrase coined by one of the greats in the industry, Paul Chek. Hopefully the owner or PTs there have heard of him.

The more fixed the object, the more likely you are to develop pattern overload. This is due to the fact that training in a fixed pathway repetitively loads the same muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints in the same pattern, encouraging micro-trauma that eventually leads to injury.

You can't change the pathway, the bar/handle/pad/etc will always be in the same position. This commonly leads to chronic injury over time. The weight is stabilized for you. However, the joints operate in multiple planes naturally. Machines that use singular plane-motion greatly decreases stabilizer activity. That creates a problem when the trainee returns to free-weight training, or worse yet, when the trainee is exposed to the three-dimensional environment called real life.

I could go on and on, but at this point I've most likely said too much already.

Gosh this sounds overly critical, but I promise it's with the best of intent. I only hope that the facilities in this area can improve. Society is in bad shape, literally and figuratively, and the more great facilities there are out there.... the more people that really need the help will find it!

I've talked with many club owners over the years as well as many professionals. One thing has been very evident. The people in this industry are amazing. I hope that holds true for you and whomever you share this with at your facility. If they are anything like the vast majority of professionals I've encountered in this industry, they will realize that my true intent with this message is of constructive nature.

As a positive, I was truly impressed with the amount of classes you offered and there is certainly a large population of people that will derive satisfaction and benefit from them.
 
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His Reply

Steve,
I wanted to take a moment to thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. You obviously put a lot of time and thought into your email. I'm sorry that we didn't meet your expectations. We made a conscious decision to limit the scope of our free weight area to cut down on the need for "meat head control". Please don't infer from my last statement that I consider you, or people who use or prefer free weights, "meat heads". It's just that it has been our experience that without a purposeful "limiting" of the free weight area, over time an element of steroid use, chalk, excessive yelling, swearing, weight dropping, etc begins to develop. These elements start to negatively effect the demographic core of our membership base. In order to control the negative element, we decided to get rid of our 100 pound plates, our power rack, and limit our dumbells to 100 pounds max. We also don't have any Olympic lifting platforms, bench press/squat/deadlift clubs. Not that there is anything "wrong" with any of these concepts. We have just chosen to market to a demographic segment that is incompatible with some of the fringe characters that these elements can attract. Our core demographic is middle aged women who would like to lose weight. As an athlete, ( NCAA DIII National Champion Shot Put and Javelin) my training would benefit from heavier dumbells, more squat racks, stacks on the cable machines that went over 250, etc. As a business owner, I have found that they are incompatible with our core business model. Limiting the free weights allows me to attract a larger member base, which in turn allows me to stay in business and help educate and improve the life-quality of more people. I know to a free weight enthusiast, our position must seem a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Free weights are a great tool capable of unbelievable results in the hands of the right type of client and trainer. But if the club cant stay in business, they're not doing anyone any good.

I remember "back in the day" when Competitors Family Fitness was Competitors Gym in Pottstown. It knew what it was. A hard core gym. While your grandma could certainly get a great workout there, she probably wouldn't feel comfortable. But free weighters loved it and it was very successful from what I remember. Over time, someone decided to try to grow their market share by going after the "health club" types. They moved into a much bigger and nicer facility. And while they added a very nice assortment of selectorized equipment and cardio as well as a group exercise room, tanning, etc, the core member base they brought from the old club , in my opinion, essentially "scared off" the base they were after. Mike did a great job adding the main-stream club ammenities and features. But I really believe they are incompatible with a robust free weight gym crowd. I don't believe the new facility ever enjoyed the level of success that the old "gym" did. Too much dissonance between what is was and what it aspired to be.


Regarding our training philosophy, I think we agree on a lot more than we disagree. Our latest major equipment line purchase was the HumanSport line from Star Trac which was designed specifically to address the concerns of "fixed pathway" selectorized machines. Our trainers use stability balls, cables, free weights, machines, body weight exercise, manual resistance exercise, plyometrics, and many other modalities when appropriate. They also understand that "strength training" is the most important component of most people's training arsenal. They just put less emphasis on the importance of "free weights" than you do. If our core demographic was younger and more athletic, I'm certain our training style would change to something more closely resembling your "ideal". We have found that a combination of modalities seems to be more appropriate for our members.


Regarding letting the trainee dictate the style or content of training, we are guilty as charged, but only to a degree. If a female client believes that using free weights will give them big muscles, it does no one any good to argue to the point of pissing them off. We can start with light weight machines and over time introduce different protocols and modalities as we gain their trust and confidence. In allowing them to keep their beliefs (at least in the beginning) it gives us the opportunity work with them on their terms and slowly educate them step by step over time to what we know is better, and more effective. The one exception is when the client wants to do something that may be inherently dangerous. As long as they are not hurting themselves, someone else, or the equipment, we let them be the "smart guy in control" and convert them over time to a better way.


Steve. I enjoyed your letter and I hope you find that Valhalla continues to meet your needs and expectations. Please keep us in mind if you decide to look around again. I think you would enjoy it here. I know we would enjoy having you.
 
My reply

I never got a reply to this message unfortunately.... I think he understood that it was a lose/lose conversation..... there was no way he was going to be able to logically explain the "rights" in this situation....

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John-

I sincerely appreciate the time you took in your response and I completely understand your point of view. Actually, while I was typing my first email, I was certain that my message wouldn't change anything. You are in this first and foremost as a businessman. It's required. If you aren't, the business could fold and what good does that do anyone! At least you are getting many, many people off of their asses to get in shape.

So again, I really do understand.

It's just unfortunate in my mind that there is this huge disconnect between the general public and free weight strength training. And the only reason this disconnect exists is due to the ignorance of the masses. I don't hold it against them. Unless you are a serious athlete who has been exposed to "real" training or you are someone who likes to read and get your hands on the "real" information (not this Barnes and Nobles bullshit), there is no exposure to free weight strength training.

You have the most important weapon in ones training arsenal being over-looked by members and even by owners due to negative connotations, associations, and the like.

From my position, although drastically different than your business plan, it's the trainer’s job to educate the client and make the informed decision. No other training modality is going to give you what free weight strength training offers. If more people knew these benefits, I think many gyms would change.

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I came across a weight loss web forum with upwards of 15,000 members. When I first came on the scene, the average population was exactly that of your gym.... middle aged women.

Such poor tactics and philosophies were being passed around and everyone was buying them. Things like starvation dieting, high rep training for "toning," free weights make you bulky, carbs are bad, etc, etc, etc.... these were all commonplace sadly.

I came on the scene about 1 year ago and things have drastically changed. I'It's something I do in my free time and it feels good to reach out to so many people and educate them. I know that alone has a lot more middle-aged women squatting and even deadlifting in gyms across the country, whom otherwise wouldn’t have stepped foot in the free weight room.

If you're ever interested, and I'm sure you are a busy guy, feel free to swing by the forum. It's an open community found at:

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/index.php

And here is one of the “threads” that gets passed around by many members of the forum to new people looking for advice. It’s simply a collection of “posts” by various experts on various topics. You can see that many of them are mine, just in case you ever want to look more into my philosophies.

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/topic/11337-words-wisdom.html

This experience has opened my eyes to the web and it’s possibilities though. I’m currently working with my partner in designing and creating a website. It will be loaded with free educational material, references, links, etc…. but the backbone of it will be online personal training. This is something that certainly isn’t for everyone. I’ve always been a fan of the hands on approach. Get your hands dirty and get down to business. But it’s apparent that this doesn’t always work in clubs today when you have things happening like the minimization of critical free weight components.

My partner is one of the head trainers at Hatfield Athletic Club. We will either integrate the online training with their gym, as an added service to members who want a unique, guided experience of how to train and eat or we will keep it solo as a separate entity.

It’s in the early stages but I’ve got some friend’s who’ve transitioned to the web for training services and they’ve done well with it, financially and in terms of success with their clients. It’s an interesting concept. With electronic communication I find you are able to take your time and really “reach out” to the client and educate them before they step foot in the gym.

I've trained people out of my home before as well as a few clubs in the area. I've always put the education of my client as the primary M.O. in the beginning. Certainly, especially women, come to me with a boatload of fallacious reasoning floating around their mind as to what, why, and how they want to exercise.

A majority of the time though, I'm able to coax them into trying something out of their "norm" and, as I'm sure you know what real strength training offers, it pays off for the client.

However, I'm also a financial adviser and I've never had to rely on training as my primary source of income. It's simply my passion. Don't let the fact that it's not my full time job fool you though. I haven't met too many full time trainers with more knowledge than me, sadly. However, b/c it was never the "job" putting food in my mouth so to speak, I never had to worry about a client not buying into my advice and walking away. Plus, I could take the extra time to really educate the client, which I understand isn't exactly feasible in a health club type setting where the M.O. is to move as many clients through the door as possible. The gym survives due to number of members. I get that.

Competitors could have been great. It sounds like you know Mike. In my opinion, which you can take for what it's worth, he isn't the greatest person to have running a gym. Yes, he provided the "real" equipment and weights required to build impressive physiques. But he did nothing to bring members in the door. You are right, you need a healthy mixture of aerobic based training and strength based training if you are ever going to entice enough people to join your gym. A combination of Mike's gym and your own would be excellent in my opinion.

I’ve often times thrown the idea of opening my own gym. Ideally, and I understand this may be wishful thinking, but I’d designate a secluded area of the gym as the “dungeon” type of setting where the so-called “meatheads” could train away from the average crowd. At the same time though, I’d also have a separate free weight area designated for the average member. Yes, I think it’s that critical.

In my opinion, there are many different types of high-quality members. One of them being a person such as myself. When I pick a gym, I'm dedicated to it until they close or change. I was at Competitors for 9+ years and I'm only 26. I'd consider someone such as myself as an "asset-member" due to my knowledge and "stage presence." You have guys like me that aren't juiceheads and are serious strength athletes. They are polite and respectful. They take time to help others around them. Yet, they are strong and need the right equipment.

By eliminating this "breed" of member in most of the gyms I see around here, not only do I see it as a diservice to them... but I also view it as a mistake for the gym.

When I trialed your gym, I had a medium day in bench press, in terms of intensity. I worked my way up to a working set of 285. Your members were impressed and it seemed obvious that they don't see that kind of stuff very often. I received multiple comments and it was obvious that my lifting lit a flare under the other member's butts to train harder. And hell, I'm not even that strong!!

Again, I think having that right breed of strength athlete as part of any gym's membership is important.

Valhalla offers everything I've mentioned, except for the secluded “meathead” room. Besides being newer and more spacious than your facility, it's very similar. The only difference is, they've found a way to incorporate all the important equipment and space required to really strength train along with a wide array of aerobic equipment and classes. And because of this, they seem to have a healthy mixture of populations who utilize their facility.

You've been in this industry a lot longer than me, I'm sure. It saddens me that gyms have resorted to minimizing their emphasis on strength training simply b/c of the "meathead" draw and connotation.

I honestly don’t expect any replies. It’s just nice to communicate with another passionate professional, hence my lengthy emails. :)

I wish you continued success with your business and honestly, I wouldn’t have a problem recommending people to your facility.

-Steve
 
It's just that it has been our experience that without a purposeful "limiting" of the free weight area, over time an element of steroid use, chalk, excessive yelling, swearing, weight dropping, etc begins to develop.
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Interesting stereotype he has there...

Our core demographic is middle aged women who would like to lose weight.
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As someone who's in his core demographic - Education and having someone be able to show me what I need to do, I don't care on what equipment, and givem e alternatives when I can't do option A - that's more important than shiney equipment.

He's trying to give the people what they think they want but it doesnt' sound like he's really asking the people what they need... if he did -he'd probably be suprised at the answer.
 
Very interesting exchange. I could imagine that as a gym owner, you're in a real pickle. Yes, you want to educate the public, but you also have to turn a profit. And yes, people should be taught how to use the free weights. But at the same time, a LOT of clients are convinced that free weights are "dangerous", and shy away from trainers who emphasize that.

Fortunately, for me, LA Fitness is kind of a hybrid. It certainly caters to the suburban moms, but it also has a good sized free weight area with 2 sets of DBs that go up to 125 lbs, and 3 power cages. Most of the trainers there use the machines, but I'm actually fine with that, because it leaves the free weights and the power cages for use by people who really need them.
 
As an athlete who trained very hardcore (read: olympic lifts on a platform, heavy squats, plyos, etc) a few years back in my hometown gym, I can understand where the gym owner is coming from. Even though the olympic platform was set well out of the way, the noises that dropping the weights made seemed to frustrate other people (generally the older clientele), and even minimal grunting (simple forced exhalation required for heavy lifting) seemed to irk them. Anyways, for whatever reason they disliked my training style, they would annoy the shit out of the owner (a good friend of mine) with their complaints. there were only 2 of us who trained like that, and usually together, so it was a maximum of 2 hours a day of training and always done in very offpeak times.

On a somewhat related note, maybe the government should subsidize health clubs to a certain degree. Then gym owners could do more to educate instead of worrying about profits, costs to consumers could be reduced, and the overall benefit to health in our society would probably lower health costs in the end as well. That is the democrat in me, the republican suggests that this responsibility should be carried out by private insurance companies, offering benefits to those who maintain active memberships with health clubs (which from what I have heard is actually starting to proliferate).

just some random thoughts, lol
 
If I was to go to a gym and pay for a membership and a personal trainer, I would rather have someone who would tell me exactly what to do and exactly what was best for me to the best of their knowledge rather than someone who would let me do what I know according to my knowledge (...or rather lack of, which I'm sure most people who walk into a gym have). Why pay for someone who's just going to let you do what you could do on your own?
 
CoachCrimson said:
As an athlete who trained very hardcore (read: olympic lifts on a platform, heavy squats, plyos, etc) a few years back in my hometown gym, I can understand where the gym owner is coming from. Even though the olympic platform was set well out of the way, the noises that dropping the weights made seemed to frustrate other people (generally the older clientele), and even minimal grunting (simple forced exhalation required for heavy lifting) seemed to irk them. Anyways, for whatever reason they disliked my training style, they would annoy the shit out of the owner (a good friend of mine) with their complaints. there were only 2 of us who trained like that, and usually together, so it was a maximum of 2 hours a day of training and always done in very offpeak times.
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That's fine and all, but I not asking for a platform.

A simple power-rack/cage to do the basic compound exercises in is all.

And maybe giving people the option to do things correctly. Some might say what's correct for me may not be correct for them.

I say hogwash.
 
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lindseybot3k said:
If I was to go to a gym and pay for a membership and a personal trainer, I would rather have someone who would tell me exactly what to do and exactly what was best for me to the best of their knowledge rather than someone who would let me do what I know according to my knowledge (...or rather lack of, which I'm sure most people who walk into a gym have). Why pay for someone who's just going to let you do what you could do on your own?
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Exactly my point.

I understand that most people are afraid of lifting weights. But that's simply b/c they don't understand what's involved and the whys/benefits.

Basically, this guy is saying, "Ahhh, money is more important than anything else. I can't spend the time educating my client base. So I will take away what most don't understand."

Maybe that truly is required for him to make enough money.

But if it were me, my doors would be closing. Never will be a sell-out in this industry. That's just pitiful.
 
I must add that with my final response to him, I didn't mean to over-generalize the entire population here at WLF. Not EVERYONE was following poor tactics.

But a majority was. And I didn't see much solid advice being passed around.

That was my point.
 
Why did your gym close? I think your correspondence was brilliant - however if I look at my gym, sadly enough most members do not give a shit about free weights, and the trainers have a hard time convincing women to do weights (I had a hard time convincing one of my flatmates to do it - she does now. The other one doesn't want to know). I know of a few who are simply exasperated by this (and then as I mentioned they're worried that if they do get women like me who do want to do decent free weights, they are worried they'll get scared off by being the only female - vicious circle). I started trying to explain to women I got to know at the gym why it's good to do weights - most of them listen but then they're like oh well I just like going on the cross trainer at a low speed for 592854 hours a day (GRR), but thanks. I guess nowadays the whole gym thing is a bit like "oh yeah I go to the gym aren't I fit?" - some people have little interest in what works and what doesn't, and going to the gym is just one of these trendy things you can show off about (you get all this city-types that are like yeah I'm so busy and I go to the gym).

I guess that the more mainstream gyms get, the more commercial the whole thing is going to become. The gym I go to has the biggest weight room compared to all the others in that area, and it's not that big! I went to see my parents last week, and got a free pass to a local gym. The weights room was so tiny people were running into each other and probably risking injury - I talked to one of the guys there, and he said they were all like that in the area :(

It's a really sad thing that not everyone is as dedicated as you
 
My gym closed b/c they didn't cater to the public, coupled with the fact that the owner was/is a moron.

I think I could make a gym work while maintaining the integrity of the education and recommendations, but I'm sure it would slow the process, which means less money in pocket.

You're right.... it is quite the vicious circle.

What I don't get is.... all owners/managers I speak with, they mention how this is their life. They love fitness and they love "educating" people.

Ummm, am I missing something?

Last time I checked, censoring some information and pushing others does very little when trying to give someone the full picture.

And if it truly was their passion, I don't get how they could live with the fact that they are selling out hardcore each and everyday.
 
I think it's a little silly for a gym to "cater to the public's wants" rather than their needs. That's like someone with a broken leg going to a hospital and telling them that instead of an xray and a cast they want a brain transplant! Gyms and personal trainers are there to tell you want you need to do, not to sit there and nod their heads when a person comes in and says, "oh, I just want to walk on the tread mill for thirty minutes at a really slow rate and that's all I want to do." All of this selling out talk disgusts me and the fact that it's trendy to have a gym ownership is sickening...people should take going to the gym, fitness, and eating healthy seriously and not fake it to be considered cool.
 
The problem is multi-fold. The more thought I put into it, the more things I think about that really define the problem.

First and foremost, I think owners/managers/trainers themselves don't know optimal from suboptimal. Hell, I think some of them don't know right from wrong. When this is the case, how can they make proper decisions for their clientèle? They can't. This is the part that pisses me off.

Two, and this feeds number one, you have a bunch of clients who don't know optimal/suboptimal, right/wrong. This is the part that makes me sad. These people should not be expected to know optimal/subop, right/wrong. That's why they pay for a gym membership and/or pay a trainer.... they place their trusts in other's hands. And to date, the competence of "these others" I really have to question when talking about the broad spectrum of people in the industry.

Third, and this fuels both 1&2, is the fact weight loss has become an institution, especially in western society. The vast majority of people are fat. And of those who aren't fat, the vast majority of them aren't happy with their appearance. Couple this with the fact that society places so much emphasis on appearance and you are left with a metric ton of people desperate to "fit in." Desperate to make physical change. This becomes prey for the picking from the weight loss industry. Instead of swooping down from the sky and plucking off each fat person one by one, they simply swoop down and drop off the next, new, shiny program, pill, machine, or myth to trigger mass spending from the average population. These neat little "gifts" that the industry/marketers so kindly drop off for us to see day in and day out begin to mold our perceptions of what's actually optimal and right in terms of exercise, training, nutrition, etc.

Fourth, and lastly, it seems like the fitness industry is the "cool" place to be nowadays. So you have teenyboppers who don't place any emphasis on education and/or application trotting into the industry labeling him/herself as a "trainer" or better yet an "expert." The real need for weight loss as a whole in society has created many fads such as this that only add to the distress of the industry.

I'm sure I can think of more, but this was my most recent line of thought after reading that last post.
 
damn I am glad I have a good gym to go to, they realy encourage and instruct members how to make the most of free weights, in fact most of the gym floor is dominated by the free weights area. I have noticed that lifting heavy does encourage others to put in a bigger effort. Most of the clients are typical housewives etc. not a meathead to be seen.

They don't mind the ocassional big grunt during a big deadlift or squat session either.
 
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