constructing a cool cardio kinda day thingy :p

K

Karky

2
I've thought about this for a while, and I want to start training more cardio-ish. However, I don't want to run a lot, bike, swim/whatever other boring ways of getting cardio, it's not for me. I was thinking about putting together something in the gym, a day with high reps, very little rest between sets, lots of supersets, etc. The goal would be training in such a way that oxygen supply is the limiting factor, not muscle strenght or endurance. Catch my drift?

The gym I go to in Trondheim (where I spend all my time except vacations) my gym is about a 15-20 min walk, all pretty much uphil. I can should be able to jogg that pretty quick, I don't want jogging to be the main part of this workout, but it's cool having some of it. I though of jogging to the gym, then start doing stuff like alternating jumping lunges, BW pushups, cable punches, db swings, etc. all very light, high reps, supersets/circuits with little to no rest, while all the time sipping on a protein/dex mix so I don't start burning anything precious

Has anyone ever done something like this before?

The main thing I'm considering now is if I should do supersets/circuits but do things that are very easy muscle wise, but use short rest in between the different exercises, so that the problem is catching your breath and being really out of breath and not so much the fact that you're muscles are shot. Or going to muscle exhaustion too, causing a lot of lactate acid building up, muscles feeling shot AND the whole catching my breath thing, which would probably be harder, but I don't know how it would pan out with all my other "muscle" lifting. I'm guessing the plan would look something like this:

M:
Str day

W:
power day

F
work capacity day

then put the cardio day after one of those days, I'm not sure which one yet, I need some input there.

Input/questions/comments, feel free to post! I've never done anything like this before, so I'm gonna need suggestions on how to do it and some cool exercises to work on my cardio!
Before you ask, my gym doesn't have a tire, no sledge, it does have a medicine ball though :p
 
You're pretty much explaining resistance training for muscular endurance. The only real problem I see with a muscular endurance training day is that it is somewhat counterproductive to your strength/power resistance training days. Training for muscular endurance develops your muscles in a rather different manner than when training for strength and power (especially). It develops smaller muscles that are better designed for high volume lower intensity exertion and cardio based exercise programs.

While I don't think visiting this kind of training on a biweekly or monthly basis would really counteract your overall training regime, I don't think including it in a weekly basis will help your overall training program.
 
This will be as much muscle endurance training as running is muscle endurance training I guess.. which isn't a whole lot.

I'm not talking about doing 3x15 going near muscular faliure. Did you read the entire post?

I guess of the two options I presented this would be the best, since it's less muscle endurance and more cardio:
do supersets/circuits but do things that are very easy muscle wise, but use short rest in between the different exercises, so that the problem is catching your breath and being really out of breath and not so much the fact that you're muscles are shot
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How would that approach not be cardio? If you think it's too muscle endurance-ish, how could I alter it to make it more cardio? Or are you saying that the only things that can help for cardio is the traditional running, biking, etc?
 
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Try this website:


It is an amazing website. There is a variety of work outs in there from power workouts to endurance ones too. There is plenty of BW exercises and routines you can try. Check it out
 
I guess what I'm really thinking about is GPP training.

I'm still just throwing out ideas here, maybe set up some complexes, circuits, and go for time, under 2 minutes to increase anaerobic fitness..
 
illiniphase4 said:
You're pretty much explaining resistance training for muscular endurance. The only real problem I see with a muscular endurance training day is that it is somewhat counterproductive to your strength/power resistance training days. Training for muscular endurance develops your muscles in a rather different manner than when training for strength and power (especially). It develops smaller muscles that are better designed for high volume lower intensity exertion and cardio based exercise programs.

While I don't think visiting this kind of training on a biweekly or monthly basis would really counteract your overall training regime, I don't think including it in a weekly basis will help your overall training program.
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Strongmen work on programs like this all the time. Westside has incorporated endurance through the setup of work capacity and GPP. I doubt anyone would argue it doesn't work for them.

Karky is wanting to boost up his work capacity, not run a marathon.
 
Karky said:
I guess what I'm really thinking about is GPP training.

I'm still just throwing out ideas here, maybe set up some complexes, circuits, and go for time, under 2 minutes to increase anaerobic fitness..
Click to expand...

What I used to do and will start doing again once it gets warmer is I'd have a day where I'd go in the backyard and do

20 rep power cleans
--ss--
1 min sledgehammer swings

1 min keg throw, sprint, pick up and throw
--ss--
burpeesX number in age

end with X number of or reps of tire flip

Also, when I was in the gym, I'd run someting like Charles's EDT program. I'd pick 4 movements and give myself 20 minutes on the clock. An example was db pressing, hammer strength iso-rowing, cable pullthroughs, calf raises and the weight I chose I would do half the number of reps I could normally get done with them. Anyway, I'd just go with no rest other htan what it took to get ot the next station or machine.

I'd do that after working on 1-2 movements of working up to a 3-5 rep max on.
 
Sounds like a fun idea! What better way to make cardio work for you than to incorporate movements you're already doing and comfortable with.

Here's some stuff I can think of off the top of my head that may fit:

squats of any sort - regular, split, front, overhead. Just keep it LIGHT

box step ups

push press

medicine ball throw & catch - note: requires a wall or a partner

power cleans - again, keep it light

walking DB lunges - ok, pretty much any lunge...

Broad jump to vertical jump - these get tiring FAST!


The truth is that nearly any FBW can be modified to eliminate the rest intervals & give you what you're looking for (if it doesn't, it probably has too many isolation exercises - hehe!). And then, I suppose, it just becomes a matter of imagination of what else to add. Don't have a sled? Grab something heavy to hold and tie yourself to a cable machine with resistance bands... Make your own "farmer's walk" by grabbing the heaviest DBs you can manage and running around the gym with that...

Ok. I take it back - it's not just limits of imagination. It's also getting past looking 'silly' with make-shift ideas.

But it's all in good fun, and you'll be laughing when you get a fun work-out that can be changed up every time without having to resort to that boring triathlon trifecta of cardio! [/me ducks for cover...]
 
I would believe this to be a good idea.
I disagree with illiniphase4 about it being counterproductive to your training regimen. A you look at athletes such as football players who are big, strong, and endurant. As they train all three aspects which would be strength, hypertrophy, and endurance. Also how they do much higher level work then an average trainee so I dont see anywhere where it would be counterproductive as long as the diet and all training is good.
 
thanks for the tips everyone.

Evo, do you think it would work to throw this in on a weekly basis along with my other 3 lifting sessions? I mean, it would have about the same impact as doing some other cardio like HIIT (maybe a bit more since I'll be using my entire body). The thing is I want this to be cardio, because my muscles already get enough work as it is.

I like the idea of doing 1 min of something supersetted with something else, did you use no rest between the supersets? Like I said, if I keep it under 2 min it will be more anaerobic, while if I do like you suggested later in your post, take 20 min and go from exercise to exercise, wouldn't that be more aerobic? I want to focus mainly on one, and I guess I need to find out what I need the most. In terms of cardio for weight training, I suppose it's anaerobic?
Sometimes, specially with single leg work, what limits me might be the fact that I'm dead tired and my heart beating, can't catch my breath, etc. I guess doing stuff for 1-2 min would help with that, no?
 
What EVO is doing is anaerobic, and is a good idea. If the goal is to get in better condition then that is the route to go.

You can also devise different types of circuits.

DB Circuit -

DB Bench
DB OHP
DB Squat
DB BOR
DB RDl
DB Lunge
DB Sit-Ups

Med Ball Circuit -

Chops
Round The Worlds
Chest Pass
Overhead Pass
Side Pass
Russian Twist
Sit-Ups
Squat and Throw
Backwards Throw

You can do wither of the above circuits 3X through. Time yourself, then set the goal of going faster the next time you do them. That way you know you are getting in better shape.
 
Karky said:
thanks for the tips everyone.

Evo, do you think it would work to throw this in on a weekly basis along with my other 3 lifting sessions? I mean, it would have about the same impact as doing some other cardio like HIIT (maybe a bit more since I'll be using my entire body). The thing is I want this to be cardio, because my muscles already get enough work as it is.

I like the idea of doing 1 min of something supersetted with something else, did you use no rest between the supersets? Like I said, if I keep it under 2 min it will be more anaerobic, while if I do like you suggested later in your post, take 20 min and go from exercise to exercise, wouldn't that be more aerobic? I want to focus mainly on one, and I guess I need to find out what I need the most. In terms of cardio for weight training, I suppose it's anaerobic?
Sometimes, specially with single leg work, what limits me might be the fact that I'm dead tired and my heart beating, can't catch my breath, etc. I guess doing stuff for 1-2 min would help with that, no?
Click to expand...

Well when I was doing this stuff I had to monitor my recovery so it didn't hurt my throwing performance. But you could set it up as M-lower, T-upper, Th-full body, Sat-conditioning work

I didn't use any rests between the super sets. So I'd do the 20 rep power cleans. I'd use a light weight, like 95lbs because the goal here was to get the heart rate elevated and I didn't want weight to impede what I was trying to do. As soon as the power cleans were finished, I'd run over to the sledgehammer and start swinging away. I'd then rest 1-2 minutes and move onto the keg throw.

On the 20 minute thing...if you'll google Charles Staley EDT, you'll find his setup is to find 2 movements to pair together and do them back to back for 15 minutes. You pick a weight and do half the reps you'd normally do and work on increasing the number of sets you can do as your work capacity picks up. I didn't do my setup necessarily as a conditioning tool but I'd take semi-long breaks (3-4 minutes) between sets when I was working up to the 3-5 RM on the 2 movements. So that would get me 30 minutes on the clock already. I was looking for a way to get more in in less time. I will say though that when you're not taking breaks, it starts to add up and you feel like you're getting beat up pretty good. So since I was working fullbody stuff, I would hit something that would cover me completely. So that's where my setup came from. Then I'd either add in a couple movements for biceps and triceps and shoulders and increase my time by 5 minutes or run another triset and give myself 10ish minutes.

So my goal was basically the same as an EDT set up-I knew I got through 5 circuits in the 20 minutes, can I get 6 circuits in in the next workout or two. It's just another way of increasing work capacity. It takes a bit of mental fortitude after that 3rd circuit. Since each bodypart was getting a bit more rest, I'd do 3/4 number of reps (9 reps on 12ish RM, 6 reps on a 9ish RM, etc).

Anyway, I hope some of that made sense. As an aside, I started using some of Georgen's stuff in my warm ups-medicine ball slams, medicine ball reach through legs and then throw it up, catch and repeat, jumping rope, etc Every little bit helps.

The best way to do this is to go through your normal routine and then add in a day like this some where and see how it goes and tweak it from there.
 
I think Alwyn Cosgrove had a good article on circut/complex training on EFS a couple of months ago.

Basically it was something like like

10 reps power clean
10 reps front squat
10 reps OHP
10 reps GM
10 reps BO row

and that's one set, so you rest a minute and do it a few times again.

Here is the real article, and not a terrible summarization from my memory:
 
A whole article on EFS and no mention of

Javorek originally developed the concept of barbell and dumbbell complexes. (at least as we know them today)

Actually Karky. The above link has a lot of great information as well as a bunch of different dumbbell and barbell complexes. There is also some history on the subject. Interesting stuff to say the least.

If you are looking for a cool cardio kinda day thingy, then that might be the route to go.
 
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