Cannon's Journal

Two Important Studies

Jules Hirsch and Pete Ahrens at Rockefeller University Hospital in New York were studying heart disease. They got obese volunteers and put them through a rigorous 8 month program where they lost about 100 pounds a piece. Hirsch was shocked to discover that after they left the hospital all their weight came back so he replicated the study several times and shifted its focus to weight loss. They studied these patients' metabolic change, psychiatric condition, body themperature, and pulse and came to a startling conclusion--"Fat people who have lost weight may look like thin people, but they in fact by every measure seem like people starving."

Their bodies had changed so that they clung to every calorie. Their metabolisms which had been normal before the experiment were burning about 1/4 as many calories per square meter. They also suffered from a psychatric problem labeled semi-starvation neurosis. They obsessed about food, dreamed about food, secreted foods in their hospital rooms and above all they binged. The funny thing about us dieters is we are so quick to blame a lack of willpower. In fact, I've seen the people on this forum exhibit amazing willpower in so many ways--from fighting horrible exes for their children to pulling very high grades in difficult universities. However, we are very quick to balme ourselves. I'm not saying we can't control it, but I do think we need to look at what goes on in our bodies to be prepared for it and to have a chance to fight it.

Another study, was done by Ancel Keys at the University of Minnesota. He invented the K-Ration and was one of the foremost public health researchers of the 1940s. He took the healthiest men he could find both physically and psychologically and put them on a regime to lose 25 percent of their weight over a six month period. Then they were studied for another year. The results apply to us I think. They exhibited the exact same behaviors as in the people in the other study--they hoarded food and obsessed about it and they binged. They gulped food down ravenously or ate it excrutiatingly slowly to savor every morcel. They drank so much tea and coffee that researchers had to limit them to 9 cups a day. They chewed gum constantly with one man chewing 40 packs a day. The men reported periods of binging followed by self-reproach and feelings of guilt. One man stole food and another man while working at a grocery store started openning up packages and eating food from the shelves. The men's metabolism slowed to 40 percent of what they were before the study, their body themperature and heart rates dropped, and they started consuming 8,000 to 10,000 calories per day. A lot of the behaviors that some of us have sufferred--that complete loss of willpower, binging, and inevitable guilt very much mirror these starvation behaviors.
 
I am going to share more of the book and look at do more research as well, but the main thing I want to say is there is a lot of evidence that losing the ammount of weight most of us want to lose has a very good chance of putting our bodies into starvation mode (For many of us while we're still technically obese). I'm not saying, "don't bother trying to lose weight". I had my walk this morning and I am doing very well with food the last few days. However, if we can recognize this can happen and what its signs are, there is the possibility we will be better prepared to deal with it.
 
My day was pretty good. I had McDonalds for lunch and made a foolish choice in what I had, but I still stayed under calories for the day. I don't regret the McDonalds, but I should have known better--I got 2 wraps (A Big Mac would have actually been 140 calories less and not much more fat. I should have done a salad or a fairly OK 2 hamburger patties on one bun). No regrets though. I like my audio book strategy and I got a very good walk in this morning. Tomorrow I'm going out with an old friend right after school and I'm really looking forward to it. I am hopeful of a very big loss this week. I'm copying a few more chapters onto my ipod now and multi-tasking.
 
Howdy Cannon,
Interesting studies!!I have a variety on my MP3
player I have been addicted to the New Linkin Park but I have Korn
Rob Zombie,System of a Down,The doors,Atreyu alot of heavy stuff
it really gets me on the go lol.Good for you for no regrets the wraps
are suppose to the better choice when eating there I am lucky I can't
stand that place BUT if I drive by a Wendys geeesh it's hard.
Well keep up the reading and gr8 work,Tammy
 
I still lost 2 pounds. I seem to go in fits and starts a lot. I'm glad I've been able to get walks in the last 3 days by going early in the morning when I've had stuff to do in the afternoon. I guess I need to change my ticker.
 
Two Important Studies

Jules Hirsch and Pete Ahrens at Rockefeller University Hospital in New York were studying heart disease. They got obese volunteers and put them through a rigorous 8 month program where they lost about 100 pounds a piece. Hirsch was shocked to discover that after they left the hospital all their weight came back so he replicated the study several times and shifted its focus to weight loss. They studied these patients' metabolic change, psychiatric condition, body themperature, and pulse and came to a startling conclusion--"Fat people who have lost weight may look like thin people, but they in fact by every measure seem like people starving."

Their bodies had changed so that they clung to every calorie. Their metabolisms which had been normal before the experiment were burning about 1/4 as many calories per square meter. They also suffered from a psychatric problem labeled semi-starvation neurosis. They obsessed about food, dreamed about food, secreted foods in their hospital rooms and above all they binged. The funny thing about us dieters is we are so quick to blame a lack of willpower. In fact, I've seen the people on this forum exhibit amazing willpower in so many ways--from fighting horrible exes for their children to pulling very high grades in difficult universities. However, we are very quick to balme ourselves. I'm not saying we can't control it, but I do think we need to look at what goes on in our bodies to be prepared for it and to have a chance to fight it.

Another study, was done by Ancel Keys at the University of Minnesota. He invented the K-Ration and was one of the foremost public health researchers of the 1940s. He took the healthiest men he could find both physically and psychologically and put them on a regime to lose 25 percent of their weight over a six month period. Then they were studied for another year. The results apply to us I think. They exhibited the exact same behaviors as in the people in the other study--they hoarded food and obsessed about it and they binged. They gulped food down ravenously or ate it excrutiatingly slowly to savor every morcel. They drank so much tea and coffee that researchers had to limit them to 9 cups a day. They chewed gum constantly with one man chewing 40 packs a day. The men reported periods of binging followed by self-reproach and feelings of guilt. One man stole food and another man while working at a grocery store started openning up packages and eating food from the shelves. The men's metabolism slowed to 40 percent of what they were before the study, their body themperature and heart rates dropped, and they started consuming 8,000 to 10,000 calories per day. A lot of the behaviors that some of us have sufferred--that complete loss of willpower, binging, and inevitable guilt very much mirror these starvation behaviors.

This is fascinating. And quite scary!!! Looking forward to hearing if there is anything we can do to prevent this :)

In fact, I've seen the people on this forum exhibit amazing willpower in so many ways--from fighting horrible exes for their children to pulling very high grades in difficult universities.

I am so hoping this will be me (the last one of course lol!!!) Less than 3 weeks til results day :eek:

I still lost 2 pounds. I seem to go in fits and starts a lot. I'm glad I've been able to get walks in the last 3 days by going early in the morning when I've had stuff to do in the afternoon. I guess I need to change my ticker.

Ooo well done!! You don't sound very enthusiastic about the ticker change this week lol!! I will be enthusiastic for you yaaayyyy!!!!! :jump:
 
**********WAY TO GO MOVING THAT TICKER DOWN 2LBS*************
Keep up on those walk's I am telling ya that is the best way to lose weight,it hasn't failed me yet.Maybe when I hit "160"I can move up to jogging but for now walking really does the trick..Have a nice weekend Tammy
 
Hey Kezzy. Thanks for visiting :) I will be done with the book this weekend. The reason I haven't posted more is because I found 2 more depressing things and 1 thing that shows how close scientists were to unlocking obesity less than 10 years ago and then things fell apart and discovered that we're more complex than they had thought. The science here is very good, but I refuse to use one book as my total guide to weight loss. I need to go further into these studies and into Leptin and related chemicals. There is a rubber band effect that seems to hold people to within 10-20% in either direction of a certain weight long term, but I do know even the best rubberbands can be broken.
 
Good morning Cannon. Congrats on the 2 pounds! That is very interesting information you posted. Gives us all something to think about when we are challenged. Have a good weekend!
 
Cannon, congrats! Moving the ticker is always a fun thing. The idea of audio books is a great one. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to read. My concern would be getting into a really great read and walking for miles until I was ready to the turn the pod off! Of course, that could be a great strategy.

Of course, my iPod is broken right now. Hard drive crash. Hoping to replace it soon.

Congrats again!
 
Congrats on losing two pounds Cannon. Also waiting to hear more of your book you're reading. I requested that one Beckster suggested. I'm starting to get back in to exercising again, riding a bike, and watching calories, sort of. Learning more about this bipolar I've lived with for years and hoping I can manage it better, which basically means avoiding triggers to mood swings. Meeting a nice man is a sure way to trigger a mood swing, and if I become manic I lose all inhibition. Sure trouble. Plus, I am difficult in relationships, the illness compells me to say things that aren't true like "You don't love me" I will have to focus on volunteer work once my boys are out of the house. My brain doesn't regulate emotions well and I am compelled to be needy, insensitive, pushy. I hate to say it but I am a difficult person to be in a relationship with. That is something I'll just have to put out of my mind. Forum boyfriends are cool though.
 
Thanks folks. I'm off to read more in a moment.

Kelly, I was talking to one of my bipolar friends (Ed) about relationships and how his bipolar condition affected his two marriages. Don't give up on finding somebody. You have a medical condition and people will recognize that and act accordingly if they know of it and care about you. You can certainly count me among your forum toyboy in the meantime :jump:
 
Congratulations on the 2 pounds, Cannon.

The book you're reading does sound very interesting. After a long time of thinking the rules were simpler than they are, and yo-yo-ing my weight up, I've found the little bits and pieces of information I picked up in the last couple of years have been very helpful to me in being better able to deal with my eating issues now. I think your thought that one place won't hold all the answers and "even the best rubberbands can be broken" is very important. I hope your book/some book has included some studies of people who have successfully lost a lot of weight and kept it off, because those are the ones we need to light the way for us.
 
Congratulations on the 2 pounds, Cannon.
I hope your book/some book has included some studies of people who have successfully lost a lot of weight and kept it off, because those are the ones we need to light the way for us.

It has to a degree, but the outlook for dieting is so incredibly bleak beyond a certain point. The worst part is there are so many people making so much money off of continuing certain misconceptions that its hard to get people to objectively look at the situation. It is so easy to say, "Exercise more and eat less." However, our bodies don't play fair. The main benefit I see from what I've learned in the book is that it is our bodychemistry that causes those binges and kills weight loss. It isn't lack of willpower. I think knowing this makes it easier to prepare for it than if you believe its your own lack of control caused by laziness. I am going to post about some of the negatives, but I am indirectly learning some positives. For instance, there are 3 very important chemicals produced by the body which give the signal for being full. The most important are Leptin and PYY. In doing further research on Leptin I came across an article from the September 2003 issue of the Journal of Neuroendocrinology (I missed this before because I only get the February swimsuit issue). Studies at both Oxford and Harvard demonstrate the effect of sleep or lack of it on the body's ability to produce leptin. This emphasizes just how importance sleep is to losing weight. Something that made a difference for me when I started this diet, but that I got away from--no more.
 
Let me try to ecapsulate what I've learned so far. I have some areas that I am definitely going to go further into. I spent some time last afternoon looking for some science contrary to the Kolata's book. I found several people who were upset and said things like "Put down the book and while you're at it put down the bacon double cheeseburger. YOU are the reason YOU are fat". Bascially, people who either didn't read the book or didn't understand it seemed to be the only dissenting voices. There are a lot of people who profit from the idea that the weight is the fat person's fault and our society loves to judge people in general. Its a combination that leads to ignoring a lot of scientific evidence.

1. Obesity is controlled by genetics more than any other factor. There was a very important study involving twins who were adopted by different families and that is one that has been repeated frequently. Genetics account for over 75% of a person's BMI. A person with fat genes raised by a healthy family is much more likely to be overweight than a person with "Normal" genes raised by an obese family. In African-American males the effect is as high as 89%. Kolata ignores that other 25%. To somebody starting this thing at 465, I believe if I can learn the habits that will make me far healthier.

2. The way that our body controls are eating are through three chemicals - Leptin (A hormone that regulates appetite and metabolism), PPY 3-36 (A peptide that blocks the nerves simulated by Ghrelin), and Ghrelin (A hormone that stimulates appetite). Our weights will try to pull us to a certain weight through a rubber band effect. If we consume too many calories to maintain that setpoint our metabolism will kick into overdrive and our body will tell us we're full. If we consume too few calories our body will slow down our metabolisms and tell use we're starving. The problem is there is no rhyme or reason to that setpoint. Some people will get that starving signal and metabolism slowdown when they are very obese. Other people may not have that happen when they are unhealthily underweight.

3. The result of those signals is that crazy binge that kills a lot of diets. Some of the best posters on this board have left farewell messages full of shame and humiliation as their eating went out of control. Eveything I'm reading says its not their fault. These people wanted to lose weight and were dedicated to it. I hope that understanding what is happenning may allow people to lose that shame and humiliation and cope with the situation better. This doesn't mean all diets will fail, but it does mean the chemical reactions of your body need to be understood and dealt with if you want to successfully lose weight.

Things I have learned positive so far.

1. Sleep is key to Leptin working positively so proper sleep will greatly help with weight loss.
2. I am not nearly as weak-willed as I thought. My desire to lose weight is not at odds with my desire to see more acceptance for overweight people in society.
3. There is a percentage of weight before that rubberband effect ever happens and I don't believe I've hit it yet.
4. I am convinced that the price of weight loss is eternal vigilance.
5. I do think science is probably less than a decade from making some major progress in this area. The discovery of Leptin is about a decade old and its openning up all sorts of new areas of research.

I also believe my goal weight is pobably too low for my body. I think my goal weight is going to drop into the 250 pound range and then I'll think about things.
 
I also believe my goal weight is pobably too low for my body. I think my goal weight is going to drop into the 250 pound range and then I'll think about things.

I think tha tis a great way to do it - I want to be 16 always have when I get there I will access it I should actually weigh alot less since I am shot but I will never be 125 lbs and I have no desire to be - even for me to just loose antother 30 would put me at 180 and I think I woudl look great there - - you definately have the right idea...One step at a time and re-evaluating :D:D:D!!!

Also ona side note - I am glad to be walkign down this path with you adn sharign this hourney and lifestyle change - I am happy to support you and love recieiving it from you - have a great weekend !!!
 

Also ona side note - I am glad to be walkign down this path with you adn sharign this hourney and lifestyle change - I am happy to support you and love recieiving it from you - have a great weekend !!!

Thanks so much Cerella. That's a very nice thing to say. I feel exactly the same way. :jump:
 
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