Best Ab Work- Slimming down and adding definition?

KiwiFixx

New member
Im 5'9", female, and weigh in at 141 lbs. My waist measures (comfortably ha) at 30 inches (not sucking in). I could stand to loose somewhere from 5-10 lbs and as I know I cannot spot reduce, I'm wondering what the best type of diet would be to benefit weight loss on the abdominal region (lower, upper, and obliques)?

Also- what types of exercises give the best defining results?

I am not on a countdown or time frame but, like everyone, I would like the results to come as quickly as they can (healthily). To give you an idea of my current routine: I work out every morning usually and sometimes nights as well- so about 4/5+ times a week. I use the bicycle machine alot and occasionally the treadmill- both usually for about 30 minutes at a time, alternating between going fast for 2 minutes and then moderate-slow for 1 minute as I heard this helps the metabolism (misconception?). I also do somewhere from 100-400 crunches a day and pikes.

I have a small breakfast- usually a half a bagel with some cream cheese and a piece of fruit. I work most of the day from then on until about 5/6ish so I don't end up eating very much at all during those hours. Dinners can be large for me- pasta, roast chicken, ect.

Thanks for your responses, good and bad!
KiwiFixx
 
I have a small breakfast- usually a half a bagel with some cream cheese and a piece of fruit. I work most of the day from then on until about 5/6ish so I don't end up eating very much at all during those hours. Dinners can be large for me- pasta, roast chicken, ect.

Try jacking with your meal schedule. Keep the same amount of calories you eat now (or maybe reduce them a bit), and take all of that and change it to 5-6 meals a day, as opposed to one small breakfast and a large late dinner.
 
With the numbers you provided, there are a couple of things you can do to define your abs. You don't appear to have a large amount of body fat. I would recommend doing more Abdominal Toning work.

Slow down on your crunches and actually decrease the number. Focus on about 50 slow two count inhales as you raise your shoulders and four count exhale as you go back to the ground.

If you have access to an Incline bench, the situps going up and slow coming down are fantastic or your abs. You can also alternate raising yourself up by taking the elbow and reaching for the opposite knee and vice versa for your obliques.

Slowly and controlled, extend your legs and roll them over your head such that your shoulders are on the ground but the rest of your body curls over.

Doing a series of various floor ab exercises are also beneficial.

You can be as effective with your ab work by dividing your repetitions among the different ab exercises.

The best thing you can do is slow down and really focus mentally on each movement you make as you work on your abs.

Here's a routine I found on the internet that works well:


Good Luck,

Cindy
 
I know I cannot spot reduce, I'm wondering what the best type of diet would be to benefit weight loss on the abdominal region (lower, upper, and obliques)

These two ideals contradict one another.

Just as you can't spot reduce with exercise, you can't spot reduce with diet.
 
Try jacking with your meal schedule. Keep the same amount of calories you eat now (or maybe reduce them a bit), and take all of that and change it to 5-6 meals a day, as opposed to one small breakfast and a large late dinner.

While I agree, 2 meals per day is most likely not the best way to go about things, why do you recommend 5-6?

Merely looking for the logic behind your recommendation.
 
With the numbers you provided, there are a couple of things you can do to define your abs. You don't appear to have a large amount of body fat. I would recommend doing more Abdominal Toning work.

Can you explain what you mean by 'abdominal toning work' please?

Slow down on your crunches and actually decrease the number. Focus on about 50 slow two count inhales as you raise your shoulders and four count exhale as you go back to the ground.

I'm sure by now I seem like a jackass in this thread, but I'm sincerely interested in some of the advice I'm seeing....

That said, why do you recommend 50?

The best thing you can do is slow down and really focus mentally on each movement you make as you work on your abs.

Why is this?
 
Slimming down

While I agree, 2 meals per day is most likely not the best way to go about things, why do you recommend 5-6?

Merely looking for the logic behind your recommendation.

Both from personal experience and research done about how breaking up your meals increases your metabolism. She says she already works out what seems like a good amount. Then, she says she eats a tiny breakfast, and then nothing real until a large dinner. When you get a person eating 6 small meals a day, there is almost no time for snacking or eating crap outside of what you have planned.

Did you have an issue with the idea of switching to a bunch of small meals?
 
Both from personal experience and research done about how breaking up your meals increases your metabolism.

Wow, very interested in seeing the research. I've spent a good amount of time researching this myself.

I always base my opinion/belief from empirical evidence first. You are stupid not to, since science is merely a means of describing the real world; not creating it. In other words, if the science doesn't match the real world, you don't throw out the real world and keep the science, lol. I'm sure you get this.

That said, with my experience, eating 5+ meals per day doesn't do much in terms of increasing metabolic rate. I've gotten myself, as well as clients, just as lean eating 3 meals opposed to 5+, assuming cals and macros are equal.

I certainly think there are reasons that eating 5+ meals per day is beneficial. I just don't buy the whole increase in metabolism thing.

That said, let's turn to the research. Can you provide the research you are referencing. From what I've seen more research goes against a metabolic 'advantage' with more frequent feedings than for it.

Here is some of what I am talking about:











I'm certainly not suggesting eating 1-2 meals per day is appropriate. Actually, here is a study to refute that ideal:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1999 Feb;84(2):428-34. Links
Impact of binge eating on metabolic and leptin dynamics in normal young women.

* Taylor AE,
* Hubbard J,
* Anderson EJ.

Reproductive Endocrine Unit and National Center for Infertility Research, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston 02114, USA. aetaylor@partners.org

Well defined eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa and bulimia are associated with significant known health risks. Although binge eating behavior is increased in unsuccessfully dieting obese women, other health implications of this common eating pattern are unknown. We hypothesized that ingestion of an entire day's calories at one time in the evening, a common eating practice among Americans, would lead to disruptions in glucose, insulin, and leptin metabolism and in menstrual cyclicity, even in healthy young women. Seven lean women without a history of eating disorders were studied on two occasions separated by one or two menstrual cycles. During one admission, they ate three regular meals plus a snack on each of 3 days. On the other admission, they ate the same number of calories, macronutrient matched to the normal diet, in a single evening meal. Glucose, insulin, and leptin were measured frequently for 12-14 h beginning at 0800 h on the third day of each diet, and an insulin tolerance test was performed while the subjects were fasting on the fourth day. Daily blood samples were obtained until ovulation was documented to assess any impact on menstrual function. Ingestion of an entire day's calories at dinner resulted in a significant increase in fasting glucose levels and a dramatic increase in insulin responses to the evening meal. The diurnal pattern of leptin secretion was altered, such that the gradual rise in leptin from 0800 h observed during the normal diet was abolished, and leptin did not begin to rise during the binge diet until at least 2 h after the evening meal. No changes were demonstrated in insulin sensitivity, follicular growth, or ovulation between the two diets. We conclude that 1) ingestion of a large number of calories at one time (binge eating) impacts metabolic parameters even when total calories and macronutrients are appropriate for weight; 2) the timing of energy intake is an independent determinant of the diurnal rhythm of leptin secretion, indicating a relatively acute affect of energy balance on leptin dynamics; 3) the mechanism of exaggerated insulin secretion after a binge meal remains to be determined, but may be related to the altered diurnal pattern of leptin secretion; and 4) as most binge eating episodes in the population are associated with the ingestion of excess calories, it is hypothesized that binge eating behavior is associated with even greater metabolic dysfunction than that described herein

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I take issue when people claim of metabolic advantage associated with numerous feedings since it doesn't line up well with my experience nor does the science match it.

I wouldn't waste my time with it actually, but here's the deal. Most people trying to lose weight for the first time may be scared off by the recommendation of eating 6 meals per day. It's too much work and preparation for some, IMO. And b/c the metabolic advantage doesn't seem to exist, why force it upon them (pigtobig, I know you weren't forcing it upon them, but I've seen many do just that).

I'm more inclined to understand the client's habitual lifestyle and match my recommendations to it in the name of comfortableness and ease of transition for the client.

For many, the more parameters you establish, the less adherence you are going to see.

There is certainly a flip-side to this.... that being the fact that for many, eating 5-6 meals will be most beneficial. They won't have a problem with it. In fact, it will help them regulate satiety and the proclivity to binge will be eliminated.

My 2 cents on the subject.

And again, I'd love to see that research.

She says she already works out what seems like a good amount. Then, she says she eats a tiny breakfast, and then nothing real until a large dinner. When you get a person eating 6 small meals a day, there is almost no time for snacking or eating crap outside of what you have planned.

I wouldn't take issue with this statement.

I think 3 well balanced meals would lead you to the same result however. My problem isn't the fact that one is better than the other.

I take issue solely on the claimed existenace of a metabolic advantage.

If she can comfortably eat 5-6 meals, more power to her. I'd actually recommend it for reasons aside from a metabolic advantage.

If this would make life 'rough' though, I'd be more inclined to recommend 3-4 meals.

Did you have an issue with the idea of switching to a bunch of small meals?

I wouldn't call it an issue. Hopefully my point was explained above. I wanted to see if you'd claim the increase in metabolism and you did.

Now I'm merely interested in seeing the research.

As always man, pleasure discussing things with ya.
 
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As always man, pleasure discussing things with ya.

I enjoy it strictly because it makes me go and re-research stuff that I just accept as standard that I may have researched in the past. I knew you were baiting me for a discussion on the metabolic increase, and I did a quick google beforehand to make sure I wasn't going to look like a total jackace, and found a ton of sources (didn't check medical journals specifically though). Gimme a bit to go through and dig 'em up.

Also, on a subject like this, you know that there is going to be studies agreeing with both sides with seemingly irreproachable science behind both.

As far as empirical evidence goes, when I'm in specifically training for something, I go for around 6 meals a day, and I ALWAYS feel a difference. Maybe it's just a placebo, but I generally trust the way my body feels. Even if it is a placebo... people still can get better on sugar pills.

Gimme a bit to dredge up some articles... work is kinda nasty today, so it may take awhile... I'm not chickening out.
 
I enjoy it strictly because it makes me go and re-research stuff that I just accept as standard that I may have researched in the past. I knew you were baiting me for a discussion on the metabolic increase, and I did a quick google beforehand to make sure I wasn't going to look like a total jackace, and found a ton of sources (didn't check medical journals specifically though). Gimme a bit to go through and dig 'em up.

Also, on a subject like this, you know that there is going to be studies agreeing with both sides with seemingly irreproachable science behind both.

As far as empirical evidence goes, when I'm in specifically training for something, I go for around 6 meals a day, and I ALWAYS feel a difference. Maybe it's just a placebo, but I generally trust the way my body feels. Even if it is a placebo... people still can get better on sugar pills.

Gimme a bit to dredge up some articles... work is kinda nasty today, so it may take awhile... I'm not chickening out.

Don't worry about it really man. If you are busy, it's fine. I've already done the research and know where it stands. You aren't going to pull anything out I haven't seen. I recently had a long discussion with Lyle McDonald on this very subject. If you don't know him, I suggest reading up on him..... brilliant man. Arguably one of the premier authors on nutrition as well as an exercise scientist. The guy is a research hound and he's under the same impression as me.

Also, I'm not interested in articles. I'm interested in research. Pubmed and that kind of crap.

Yes, you could pull out studies refuting what I'm saying. However, that doesn't change my side of the story. I've worked with a lot of people and the difference between 3-6 meals in terms of physique-outcomes is non-existent in my experience.

If you've experienced different, measurable results.... I'd be interested. But with the combo of empirical and scientific evidence, I find it hard to understand.

I mean, basic physiology/biology..... eat a larger meal. It sits in the GI tract longer. Eat a smaller meal, you digest it faster. At the end of the day though, there's no real advantage.... total calories and proper nutrient quality/quantity are going to give you the results.... not meal frequency.

Maybe, and this is a big maybe, physique competitors who are looking for crazy leanness for competition (think bodybuilding) should adhere to this. Most do, in fact, but that's most due to 'brologic.' And who really cares in the context of this discussion considering these individuals are many standard deviations our on the bell curve.

For your average person looking to lose weight, there isn't going to be a difference one way or the other IMO and IME.
 
If you've experienced different, measurable results.... I'd be interested. But with the combo of empirical and scientific evidence, I find it hard to understand.

I wouldn't necessarily believe what I was able to do with MY body, if you say that you have worked with this system with other people and have not seen it. My success with it could have been based on a number of different factors than the ones that I personally attribute it to. I have never been able to convince someone else to go with 6 small meals a day and stick to it, even after I show them the tricks (AKA reusable gladware), and offer to help them through it, simply because unless you have a lot of free time on your hands it is SUCH a pain in the tukkus. So, I based my opinion on it based off of what I saw when I have done it.

The only other people that I have ever seen use it long enough to attempt to judge its merit were both old roommates of mine (Both bodybuilders), and they would use it when cutting their already incredibly lean mass for competition. So, again, they would not be a great judge of it. That seemed (in a far lesser way than cutting down to dangerously low bodyfat) like what she wanted to do, so I threw out the idea.

total calories and proper nutrient quality/quantity are going to give you the results

Obviously. Talk of metabolism aside, though, think about message delivery. If I had told this girl "I'm guessing you hit up a snack inbetween your tiny breakfast and big dinner 12 hours later, or your afternoons would suck really bad... Space out your meals so you can cut out the crap you eat inbetween them more easily, and not get so hypoglycemic around 3pm that you get headaches and turn crabby.", all of which is pretty easily read inbetween the lines there ("I work most of the day from then on until about 5/6ish so I don't end up eating very much at all during those hours."), she would already know that. She knows that going and getting a pack of twix at 2pm from the vending machine was not a solid choice, especially compared to a solid / healthy lunch.

My message (especially as some random person from the internet) will not get 100% absorbtion. Much like when we talked about the circuit training, if the person goes partway towards getting out of their bad habit, then we have a win. If she eats three solid meals, compared to a snack and a big meal, then we have a win.
 
As a side, those are interesting articles, though. Definately going to challenge how I think. After all of this, though, any self-experimentation would be voided in my own mind, because I would get caught in the endless loop of seeing if any perceived positive benefits that I was able to squeeze out of the diet were simply conjured up straight out of my mind, or if they were real.

Damnit, steve... this may be on the level of telling me about the easter bunny, and I'm never going to forgive you for it...
 
Hahaha.

Mind you, I eat 6 meals per day.

Don't think I am saying it's pointless.

There are a host of benefits associated with more frequent feeding. My entire point was the fact that an increase in metabolism probably isn't significant enough to warrant attention, let alone make it a necessary component of one's diet.
 
I really have always had a problem with extra fat on my ab area. I can be 100 pounds and still have a gut. I do cardio and weights and my diet is pretty good. I don't want to become a fanatic about it but could it just be the genes i was born with?
 
PigtoBig: I had this very same conversation with Steve about increased meals boosting your metabolism.

Steve is quite right. There is no difference or benefit to splitting up your meals for weight loss into 5-7 meals a day. It is additional work for some without any benefit.

We had a discussion about this in the "Harsh Truth" section. Go read it up, I did the research for you and an overview.

As for seeing your abs, there is no real exercise secret. Most people's ab routines are quite sufficient. It is far more diet and losing the extra bodyfat to see the results.

Low bodyfat takes discipline! It is a tricky settling point to arrive at.

Michael
 
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