I don't think any more needed to be said.
Why use a machine to replicate something you can do with free weights? If you're unsure of form then get someone to show you. You'll progress faster and you'll be able to use your natural ROM
Are machines bad?
- Thread starter xDenax
- Start date
Why use a machine to replicate something you can do with free weights? If you're unsure of form then get someone to show you. You'll progress faster and you'll be able to use your natural ROM
Are machines bad?
HAVE WE LEARNED NOTHING FROM WATCHING THE TERMINATOR SERIES?????
Those who like machines, we'll see how you fare when you're being chased by a poly-alloy chrome-moly frame covered with synthetic bioflesh sent from the future to stop you from inseminating Brittney Spears!
I think the arguement can go either way. This is just like the Ferrari forum where they constantly bicker about which is better, 6-speed or F1....
Free-weights obviously incorporate natural movement, the need for stability, more muscles, coordination and other stuff....but they also generally require the user to have some semblance of remedial understanding of proper form & execution. I've seen a LOT of people "doing it wrong" and getting themselves in trouble.
Machines will impose proper form, but proper form for only that muscle-group and no need for stability. They will force you through proper motion, but they limit the overall benefits. They have their uses; I've yet to figure out how to do a lat pull-down with free-weights. You can use free-weights to do a shoulder press pushing the weights above your head, but unless you hang upside down, how else can you generate a pulling-down?
I say, mix it up....but overall, if you know how to use free-weights properly OR have a good trainer, you'll get more bang for the buck with free-weights.
Machines or free-weights; both better then watching tv!
(JP...is it that time of month or what??? dayum!)
HAVE WE LEARNED NOTHING FROM WATCHING THE TERMINATOR SERIES?????
Those who like machines, we'll see how you fare when you're being chased by a poly-alloy chrome-moly frame covered with synthetic bioflesh sent from the future to stop you from inseminating Brittney Spears!
I think the arguement can go either way. This is just like the Ferrari forum where they constantly bicker about which is better, 6-speed or F1....
Free-weights obviously incorporate natural movement, the need for stability, more muscles, coordination and other stuff....but they also generally require the user to have some semblance of remedial understanding of proper form & execution. I've seen a LOT of people "doing it wrong" and getting themselves in trouble.
Machines will impose proper form, but proper form for only that muscle-group and no need for stability. They will force you through proper motion, but they limit the overall benefits. They have their uses; I've yet to figure out how to do a lat pull-down with free-weights. You can use free-weights to do a shoulder press pushing the weights above your head, but unless you hang upside down, how else can you generate a pulling-down?
I say, mix it up....but overall, if you know how to use free-weights properly OR have a good trainer, you'll get more bang for the buck with free-weights.
Machines or free-weights; both better then watching tv!
(JP...is it that time of month or what??? dayum!)
Great post to start off with jp.
I agree with you that free weights are better, and that machines might encourage potential injury.
But i dont think they are that bad as you seem to suggest!
I found your quote "Your body does not move in fixed planes" interesting. Perhaps a better representation would be body parts, therefore your assumption would be false. The biceps curl is a simple flexion on the saggital plane, same goes with extension of the quadriceps (although some medial rotation).
What would you say about messing up strength imbalances of your thigh for example. Wouldnt machines be great for this, if anything i would have critisized the stress on the actuall knee joint itself - not proproception or imbalances.
I agree with you that free weights are better, and that machines might encourage potential injury.
But i dont think they are that bad as you seem to suggest!
I found your quote "Your body does not move in fixed planes" interesting. Perhaps a better representation would be body parts, therefore your assumption would be false. The biceps curl is a simple flexion on the saggital plane, same goes with extension of the quadriceps (although some medial rotation).
What would you say about messing up strength imbalances of your thigh for example. Wouldnt machines be great for this, if anything i would have critisized the stress on the actuall knee joint itself - not proproception or imbalances.
Okay, some machines are obviously different. A lat pull with a cable and pulley is not a fixed plane.
Obviously the best exercise for verticle pulling though is a chin-up. Most people can't do them, so Lat pull is a decent alternative.
I was pretty specific when I said "body" versus "body parts". I realize that some joints track in a "fixed" plane (sorta), but your individual parts were never intended to work alone. They aren't soloists, but members of a choir.
When you throw or climb or run, you aren't just flexing and extending at the knee. You're flexing, extending, and twisting simulateously at multiple joints.
Absolutely not! When the ACL goes it isn't because it needed to be stronger. When you have a power leak of some sort, it expresses itself as stress, usually where you are compensating.
For example, when someone has a back injury, the typical medical diagnosis is that "the back is weak and it needs to be strengthened." This is actually counter-intuitive. If the back broke down it is actually generally caused because of a weakness lower in the kinetic chain, like hams or glutes that don't fire, and the back, being STRONGER, picks up the slack. The problem with this is it is an ineffeicient sequence, and it is not repeatable in the long term. It may take years, but eventually the back, which is not designed to decelerate those kinds of forces, breaks down and injury occurs.
So the actual fix is not to do back extensions on a fixed plane machine... You are just throwing gasoline on the fire. The fix is to strengthen the glutes or hams or lower leg or whatever (you would be surprised to learn how many back injuries are related to big toe problems).
If you don't correct what caused the injury, it will just keep coming back time after time after time. I don't break the body down into "parts"... I focus on movement patterns. The body doesn't learn "movement patterns" without actually doing them. Use of things like bands can actually expidite your body's ability to adapt to more efficient deceleration.
Heh... Sorry.
Those of you who know me well in this forum know that I am a little passionate and that I speak my mind. I don't speak up if I don't know what the hell I'm talking about though.
Your reputation preceeds you.....t'sall good!
Ya know what's funny...with that lat pul-down comment I made, I was totally thinking "how could you use free-weights to generate a resistant pull-down?". I was so focused on a dumbbell or bar in the hand, I completely overlooked the simple pull-up/chin-up. Instead of pulling a weight down, you're pulling your own body weight up! LOL, what an oversight. Good thing I have a trainer!!!!!!!
Egad! I have a reputation?Your reputation preceeds you.....t'sall good!
Hope it's at least half good.
Ya know what's funny...with that lat pul-down comment I made, I was totally thinking "how could you use free-weights to generate a resistant pull-down?". I was so focused on a dumbbell or bar in the hand, I completely overlooked the simple pull-up/chin-up. Instead of pulling a weight down, you're pulling your own body weight up! LOL, what an oversight. Good thing I have a trainer!!!!!!!
There are some other really fun ones.
Mixed grip chins, towel grip chins (good for grip development), and jump chins. Also, if you want to work scap and core stability, you can set up a band at about a foot off the ground affixed to something stable, and then balance on your toes and one hand in a prone position (as if you are going to do a one-handed push-up) and use your other arm to pull the band to your shoulder level. It's still a vertical pulling motion as you are pulling down in the same plane as your body, but you are working oh-so-much more, plus you're getting the added benefit of the band work (you know how much I love my bands!).
Go check out the results of this poll on smith machines.
For anyone who thinks machines are great, I encourage you to read The New Rules of Lifting, by Lou Schuler.
For anyone who thinks machines are great, I encourage you to read The New Rules of Lifting, by Lou Schuler.