Another routine

[Biggie]

Ok ive been doing chest with bis, back with tris, shoulders with legs, and abs and obliques every 3rd day. Now i'm thinkin bout starting with this:

Monday: Bis/Tris/abs/obliques

Tuesday: Shoulders/Legs

Wednesday: rest

Thursday: Chest/back/abs/obliques

Friday: Rest

Saturday: Repeat

Changes and opinions are welcome.

 

[Hoss]

hmm... triceps looks like they'll get hit 4 times a week.. with tris,chest,shoulders... hmm dilema. ill post when i think of somthin lol

 

[evolution]

No reason in the world to add shoulders to legs day. I think your arms might get over-worked also.

 

[Biggie]

when else should i do shoulders then?

 

[evolution]

Add your shoulders to one of your upper body days, they're already getting worked with those muscle groups anyway.

 

[R.Lewis]

No reason in the world to add shoulders to legs day. I think your arms might get over-worked also.

Interestingly, Ive found that working shoulders with legs helped. Cos if your dead lifting with clean, your using your upper traps, I found it hard to shoulder press the day after working upper traps so I started doing clean and press, on same days as all leg.

I think that cos your delts are quite small it doesn't use too much energy to add that body part to your workout.

Thats what I found anyway. But for my other set of workout cycles I do shoulder press before decline bnech press.

 

[Andrew Smith]

How about something along these lines, instead of breaking it up in parts, break it up in movements...

Day 1- Vertical Push/Vertical Pull/
Triceps (i.e. Shoulder Press/Lat Pulldown/Triceps Extensions

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
(i.e. Squat, Deadlift, Power Clean, keep volume low and you can do both either Squat + Dead or Squat + Clean or Dead + Clean)

Day 3- Horizontal Push/Horizontal Pull/ Biceps
(i.e. Bench Press/Barbell Row/Barbell Curl)

That might fit you better.

-Andrew

 

[WOLVERINE1]

How about something along these lines, instead of breaking it up in parts, break it up in movements...

Day 1- Vertical Push/Vertical Pull/
Triceps (i.e. Shoulder Press/Lat Pulldown/Triceps Extensions

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
(i.e. Squat, Deadlift, Power Clean, keep volume low and you can do both either Squat + Dead or Squat + Clean or Dead + Clean)

Day 3- Horizontal Push/Horizontal Pull/ Biceps
(i.e. Bench Press/Barbell Row/Barbell Curl)

That might fit you better.

-Andrew

 

[LeiYunFat]

Yeah, that IS a cool routine. Very simple and very self explanitory. I like the categorization, too.

 

[Andrew Smith]

Thank you guys,
I wish I could take credit for it !
But I first learned of movement based splits through an Australian Strength Coach, Ian King. He started writing for T-Nation.com in the late 90s and I have read all of his work. He has a mainstream book out too, The Book of Muscle, and you can pick up all kinds of great stuff from that.
The Movement Catagories are

Hip Dominant
Quad Dominant
Horizontal Push
Horizontal Pull
Verticall Push
Vertical Pull
Elbow Flexion (Curl)
Elbow Extension (Pushdowns, etc)

It is by far superior to traditional body part splits. And it can be fit into any day splits, 2, 3, 4, etc.

Good stuff,

-Andrew

 

[R.Lewis]

This is a good idea but a very bad workout in practise


1, you gotta get your calfs in there,
2, you gotta work your abs and obliques
3, make sure that you get lots of rest between day 3 and day 1.
4, this workout does not include working hi traps

I would suggest having a 4th day to work calfs, abs, obliques and high traps, However this would all be isolation work and would be better to fit it in to the other days.

I would replace the cleans for some lunges. Cleans work the biceps and shoulders which you want to work on diffrent days.

 

[Andrew Smith]

This is a good idea but a very bad workout in practise


1, you gotta get your calfs in there,
2, you gotta work your abs and obliques
3, make sure that you get lots of rest between day 3 and day 1.
4, this workout does not include working hi traps

I would suggest having a 4th day to work calfs, abs, obliques and high traps, However this would all be isolation work and would be better to fit it in to the other days.

I would replace the cleans for some lunges. Cleans work the biceps and shoulders which you want to work on diffrent days.

manofkent-
It seems as though you live in a traditional bodybuilding box...

Calves tend to fall on quad dominant days, and in a 4-day split, you could also hit them on BOTH days given the high tolerance to volume the calves have due to their high slow-twitch fiber make up.

Traps tend to fall on Hip dominant day, if you have spent any significant time deadlifting OR cleaning, you would know that the traps are heavily involved in both of those exercises. In the clean and snatch, the calves are also worked provided you do the exercsie correctly.

Cleans do not hit the biceps, and if you think that, then you are doing the exercise incorrectly. And are you telling me that Bill Starr and anyone who followed his Strong Shall Survive workout protocol of Bench, Squat, Clean didn't increase calve, and trap size? Or were they worried about hitting their shoulders, even though they benched, squatted, and cleaned three days a week?

Lunges are a quad dominant movement, unilateral, multijoint, so of course on Leg Day or Quad Dominant day lunges would be an ideal exercise for unilateral development.

Abs and obliques can be worked on any or all of the days, before or after the workout. Just because I didn't mention them doesn't mean they aren't important or neglected. Do you work your transverse abdominals?

I believe you under-estimate the bodies ability to adapt to exercise. Its only logical that if one did a 3 day per week schedule, and unless their were time constraints, it is usually MWF, or Tu, Thur, Sat. At minimum their is 2 days between 1 and 3.

Isolation work has limited loading capacity and yes, I prescribe some isolation movements, but compound multi-joint exercises make up the bulk of program design.

Breakout of the bodybuilding myth land and try something new.

Sorry for the rant ,

-Andrew

 

[R.Lewis]

Breakout of the bodybuilding myth land and try something new.

You should check out my training program. http://www.fitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48813#post48813

It my own plan, deff not a bodybuliding program, And its deff new.

Cleans do not hit the biceps, and if you think that, then you are doing the exercise incorrectly.

This is from exrx.net - as you can see a list if what is used during a clean. as you can see at the bottom of the list there is Flexion in the elbow, which means the bicep is worked. so are the delts. And yes the hi traps (i missed that out)

The calfs are worked, but they are so powerfull that I feel thay need there own exercises. my hands or back can not cope with the weights I use for calf raises. also with cleans they are only used for a second, I prefer to work them with a contant resistance.

Clean
Force (Articulation)
Dynamic

Hip -Extension
Knee - Extension
Ankle -Plantar Flexion
Shoulder - Abduction - Flexion - External Rotation
Scapula & Clavicle - Elevation - Upward Rotation
Elbow - Flexion

If I could i'd use 100% compound exercise. however I enjoy my training and want to work every muscle in the body to its limits. I dont feel that compund can give me this. i.e. calfs.

Do you work your transverse abdominals?.

Yes you can see day 3 of my program I do wood choppers. Also day 8 I do bulgairan situps with 20lb.

Its only logical that if one did a 3 day per week schedule, and unless their were time constraints, it is usually MWF, or Tu, Thur, Sat. At minimum their is 2 days between 1 and 3.

I dont see why you are pointing that out - but I dont beilieve that working your training time-table round a 7day week is effective. See what I have done with mine, Its flexable and can ebe re-arranged at anytime incase of a no-show day or injury.

 

[Andrew Smith]

manofkent-

Do not take this as an insult, but your program is not new. I have seen and used myself variants of "your" program numerous times in both my own training and in clients. There is very little that is new in weight training, and that is a fact.

You are also telling me that you can do 35 sets of higher intensity (relative to 1 RM) on your first two days?

Your rolling split isn't even that impressive, as that has been done before. Just because I lean towards using the calendar week doesn't mean I always use it in a program.

Incline, Decline benching- Thats BBing influence, that is 10 sets of horizontal push vs. 5 sets of horizontal push in one workout. Not to mention the overload of internal rotation (benching, pull ups, etc).

I do not have the time right now to add up the time it takes for you to workout, but it doesn't seem to add but at first glance.

Awaiting your reply,

-Andrew

 

[Champr23]

Andrew. Your program seems nice and clean. Only thing is that your working chest only on day 3. You can take a stop by my diary to check out my routine .

 

[Andrew Smith]

Andrew. Your program seems nice and clean. Only thing is that your working chest only on day 3.

And rightfully so. Most bodybuilders suffer from the quazi modo-look, with hunched froward shoulders due to tight internal rotators, tight pecs, tight lats, and it makes them look like a hunchback. Now I am not saying ALL trainees are like this, but an OVER use of the bench press and an under use of stretching and strengthening the antagonists (rhomboids, traps, rotator cuff complex, etc).

Can you bench press as much as you can barbell row? Can you externally rotate approx 9% of your 1 Rep Max in bench for 10 reps? Can you touch your upper back with your arm? If not, you have a problem, and 9 out of 10 you look like a hunchback.

Since most experienced trainees come having done a typical 3 x 10 on each of the three benches and little to no rowing movements to balance them out, tend to de-emphasize the horizontal plane, in order to strengthen the weak links, even if that means burying the bench press as last day of the work week, last exercise!

A short term de-emphasis will result in better gains and less down time due to injury in the long term.

Not every program I write has bench last in it either, so you don't need to think that way!

Hope that clears some stuff up!

-Andrew