Another guy new to HIIT

[tblackwynd]

Heya everyone,

After having done a good amount of research on HIIT, I've decided to give it a try. With this decision, and with my first few HIIT sessions, a number of questions come to mind. So far, here is my experience with HIIT and where I am in my training program.

I've been on a cardio program of steady state running, combined with martial arts, adding up to a total of cardio activity 4 to 5 nights a week. To date, I've lost around 30 pounds (having started at 221, now at 190). About every other week I'll lose about 3-5 pounds, then plateau for a week, then lose weight again. So I decided to take my training to another, and try out HIIT.

After my first HIIT session, I was completely done, energy-wise. After the second HIIT session, each interval would completely drain me of energy, I'd go through the recovey period by walking (having not enough energy to jog the rest period), then pick it back up to sprinting. Though I'd sprint as fast as I could, oddly enough, it would always feel that I wasn't reaching my peak output, but after about a quarter of the distance around the track, my speed would slow to the point where I'd eventually come down to a jog before stopping.

Today, during my third HIIT session, I tried only running for so long in my maximum effort intervals until I started to lose speed, then entered the rest interval. I was able to do more maximum effort intervals than previously, since I wasn't burning myself out completely by forcing a jog at the end of my maximum effort intervals.

However, in my second and third HIIT sessions, I didn't feel completely dead; near enough to it to where I had to stop due to the cramps in my side, but I was still able to recover to a decent state within about five to ten minutes of my last interval.

To date, I haven't seen any real losses on the scale, and like I said earlier, I don't feel completely exhausted after a 20 minute HIIT session. In essence, the new guy question of "am I doing it right?" comes to mind.

Any feedback would be great!

Thanks,

-Ty

 

[Wrangell]

So I decided to take my training to another, and try out HIIT.

After my first HIIT session, I was completely done, energy-wise. After the second HIIT session, each interval would completely drain me of energy, I'd go through the recovey period by walking (having not enough energy to jog the rest period), then pick it back up to sprinting. Though I'd sprint as fast as I could, oddly enough, it would always feel that I wasn't reaching my peak output, but after about a quarter of the distance around the track, my speed would slow to the point where I'd eventually come down to a jog before stopping.

" it would always feel that I wasn't reaching my peak output " - what does that mean exactly ?

You weren't winded enough ? You could have run ' harder ' ..longer ? Can you elaborate ?

also - are you timing your ' sprint ' intervals ? How long would you say a typical sprint interval is ? Do you run with timer watch / stop watch ?

Today, during my third HIIT session, I tried only running for so long in my maximum effort intervals until I started to lose speed, then entered the rest interval. I was able to do more maximum effort intervals than previously, since I wasn't burning myself out completely by forcing a jog at the end of my maximum effort intervals.

However, in my second and third HIIT sessions, I didn't feel completely dead; near enough to it to where I had to stop due to the cramps in my side, but I was still able to recover to a decent state within about five to ten minutes of my last interval.

To date, I haven't seen any real losses on the scale, and like I said earlier, I don't feel completely exhausted after a 20 minute HIIT session. In essence, the new guy question of "am I doing it right?" comes to mind. Any feedback would be great! -Ty

Just to clarify what your current HIIT protocol is.

When you do your work interval, do you stop when your speed starts to drop or do you stop ( a bit later ) when you're completely spent and can't continue running anymore ?

And, do you continue running during your recovery interval or do you walk ?

And, do you resume your work interval after you get all your wind back - or sometime before ?

 

[tblackwynd]

Thanks for responding, Wrangell. I appreciate the questions, let me do my best to elaborate on what's been going on.

"" it would always feel that I wasn't reaching my peak output " - what does that mean exactly ?

:: Perhaps it's just my way of looking at it, but it doesn't seem as though I'm sprinting as fast as I can; though even if I try to push myself to go any faster, I hit a brick wall in terms of speed.

You weren't winded enough ? You could have run ' harder ' ..longer ? Can you elaborate ?

:: Well, that is to say I'm not gasping for air like I had just come up from a minute under water; perhaps this is just having a decent breathing method / cardiovascular response to HIIT?

also - are you timing your ' sprint ' intervals ? How long would you say a typical sprint interval is ? Do you run with timer watch / stop watch ? "

:: I haven't had the chance to grab a sports watch as of yet, but I certainly intend to after having read about how important the timing methods are for HIIT. If I had to estimate, I'd say my top-speed sprint intervals generally run around 8 - 12 seconds.

---

"Just to clarify what your current HIIT protocol is.

When you do your work interval, do you stop when your speed starts to drop or do you stop ( a bit later ) when you're completely spent and can't continue running anymore ?

:: This is one of the big concerns I had; I'm glad you asked about it. As of my latest HIIT session, I ran all out for about 8-12 seconds, then as my speed drops to about 60% of my sprint, I drop into a rest interval. For my first two HIIT sessions, I was going all out, and letting my speed slowly drop as I approached failure until I was forced to drop into a rest interval.

And, do you continue running during your recovery interval or do you walk ?

:: During my recovery interval, I drop into a walk.

And, do you resume your work interval after you get all your wind back - or sometime before ?"

:: I'd have to say I've got around 80% of my wind back by the time I start up another interval. Not to the point where my breathing has normalized, but to where I'm still sucking a little bit of extra air in.

Should I be starting earlier, before I have that much of a chance to recover? Or should I be recovering fully between intervals?

Thanks again, I appreciate the help!

-Ty

 

[g8r80]

I don't think you're going hard enough. When I do HIIT in a spinning class or on my road bike, I am gasping for air at various times. I hit a legitimate 18 - 19 on the Borg RPE scale. It sounds like are not putting out enough perceived exertion to be "high intensity" and to reap its benefits.

But, that said, I have been doing HIIT for about a month now and I haven't seen the weight loss either. But, I do it for sprinting skills and have seen big improvements there.

 

[tblackwynd]

I don't think you're going hard enough. When I do HIIT in a spinning class or on my road bike, I am gasping for air at various times. I hit a legitimate 18 - 19 on the Borg RPE scale. It sounds like are not putting out enough perceived exertion to be "high intensity" and to reap its benefits.

But, that said, I have been doing HIIT for about a month now and I haven't seen the weight loss either. But, I do it for sprinting skills and have seen big improvements there.

Thanks for the input g8r80,

That's one of the problems I mentioned in my first post; it feels as thought I'm not giving the 120% HIIT requires during the sprint intervals. It just feels as if I can't run any faster!

As to not seeing any weight loss, I'm sorry to hear that, mate. However, it's my understanding that HIIT burns fat more readily than it burns muscle, one of the failings of steady-state cardio. Would anyone be able to tell me if I'm incorrect in assuming that one would lose less net weight on HIIT than on steady state cardio? My assumption is that the reason is that muscle isn't being consumed at a rate comparable to steady state, thus resulting in a lower net loss of body weight (fat + lean mass), but resulting in a loss of more body fat over time than steady state.

-Ty

 

[sig]

Suggestion - Maybe you could use a HR monitor to track your intensity? As your exertion shifts from the purely anaerobic to a combined one, you may be down-shifting too far. Seeing the number go down may "inspire" you to figure out what you can do to get it back up. And if the number really is staying that high, but it doesn't bother you, than you have proof that you're probably doing it right.

I've always had a problem with the Borg RPE, because I perceive exertion as binary - either I am going all out and pushing myself to collapse or I feel like I'm not doing anything. This is not the reality of what my body is experiencing; it is how I feel.

To get past this hurdle, I will rely on the HR monitor to train myself what different levels of exertion are actually like. I don't recognize the 'feel' of it, but I know what my Max HR is within a particular activity (though when I was spending more time with HIIT training, I was surprised to see it increase ever so slightly), and I know what 95% or 75% or 55% of this would be. Over time, I noticed that I could sustain an average HR at 95% of my max for some 4-5 minutes, and while my actual distance travelled would not match the first minute, the drop-off wasn't that bad.

 

[Wrangell]

:: Perhaps it's just my way of looking at it, but it doesn't seem as though I'm sprinting as fast as I can; though even if I try to push myself to go any faster, I hit a brick wall in terms of speed.

:: Well, that is to say I'm not gasping for air like I had just come up from a minute under water; perhaps this is just having a decent breathing method / cardiovascular response to HIIT?

:: I haven't had the chance to grab a sports watch as of yet, but I certainly intend to after having read about how important the timing methods are for HIIT. If I had to estimate, I'd say my top-speed sprint intervals generally run around 8 - 12 seconds.

Although it's not a hard and fast rule , HIIT usually means you go ' as hard as you can ' for a designated period of time you're doing your work interval. Thing is, ' hard as you can ' is a somewhat relative term. Going ' hard as you can ' for 8 - 12 seconds is quite different from going as ' hard as you can ' for 1 minute ( which is the duration - i.e 60 seconds - many hockey players I have coached have often used when training during HIIT ). Either way, if you provide a genuine effort when you go ' as hard as you can ', there's absolutely no reason for a HR monitor to track a work interval IMO....if you go flat out , you'll know it. That said, a HR monitor to track a recovery interval is beneficial if you don't want your heart rate to drop below a certain threshold ( i.e 65% MHR ) before starting your next work interval.

Also, the ratio of work / recovery interval plays an important role as to how intense you'll find the whole HIIT session. Going back to the hockey player example I gave, we'd often train at a 1:2 ratio - meaning 1 minute work interval and 2 minutes recovery interval. It didn't give them much time to fully recover and get 100% of their breath back- which meant by the end of a 30 minute HIIT session they were usually pretty wasted. If your sprints are 12 seconds, the same 1:2 ratio would mean you only recover for 24 seconds. It might very well be that when you recover now, it is taking longer than 24 seconds - perhaps something like a 1:3 ( 36 seconds ) or 1 :5 ( 60 seconds ) - so that you're not finding the HIIT session that strenuous overall.

:: This is one of the big concerns I had; I'm glad you asked about it. As of my latest HIIT session, I ran all out for about 8-12 seconds, then as my speed drops to about 60% of my sprint, I drop into a rest interval. For my first two HIIT sessions, I was going all out, and letting my speed slowly drop as I approached failure until I was forced to drop into a rest interval.

Another approach to consider - don't start out going 100% in a sprint.

Simply start out at about 80%+ - but - go for as long as you can handle it ( i.e well beyond 12 seconds ) - which may end up being 45 seconds, 60 seconds etc. etc.

:: During my recovery interval, I drop into a walk.

Again, a recovery in which you continue to run during your recovery interval ( albeit it a much slower pace ) will be more intense that walking during recovery.

:: I'd have to say I've got around 80% of my wind back by the time I start up another interval. Not to the point where my breathing has normalized, but to where I'm still sucking a little bit of extra air in.

Sounds about right.

Should I be starting earlier, before I have that much of a chance to recover? Or should I be recovering fully between intervals? Thanks again, I appreciate the help!

The only time I have seen HIIT protocols require that you get 100% of your wind back during recovery is when people are specifically training their ' explosive ' energy systems ( i.e ATP-CP system ). If you slow down to a jog during recovery, you tend to develop your lactate and aerobic systems more. I'd just do recovery as you are now - " around 80% of my wind back ".

 

[Wrangell]

As to not seeing any weight loss, I'm sorry to hear that, mate. However, it's my understanding that HIIT burns fat more readily than it burns muscle, one of the failings of steady-state cardio. Would anyone be able to tell me if I'm incorrect in assuming that one would lose less net weight on HIIT than on steady state cardio? My assumption is that the reason is that muscle isn't being consumed at a rate comparable to steady state, thus resulting in a lower net loss of body weight (fat + lean mass), but resulting in a loss of more body fat over time than steady state. -Ty

If you eat properly ( i.e proper timing, sufficient calories, adequate macro-nutrients etc. ) , and you don't engage in overly lengthy ' endurance ' cardio, the concern for muscle loss from steady state cardio is pretty much a non-issue IMO.

Muscle loss from cardio is really only more of a concern when your glycogen stores are seriously low and or when you have significantly enhanced levels of cortisol being released which - for most gym rats - won't be relevant in an average 60 minute steady state cardio session most gym rats are capable of doing.

 

[matt182]

First time i would disagree with wrangell, just my opinion though.

Id prefer to set someone an exercise programme that involves at least 30minutes of about 65 - 75% intensity.

I know about epoc no need anyway to jump on to it. But with this routine it burns a higher amount of fat by quite a bit during working out. For quite heavy people even 75% is real hard work to be doing at least 30 minutes.

So all in all working at 70% max is very appealing for weight loss. Your actually losing more fat than HIIT as fat is used increasingly during this intensity. Maybe when you have done this for a while whilset getting fitter you could incorporate HIIT by itself or together.

 

[Wrangell]

First time i would disagree with wrangell, just my opinion though.

Id prefer to set someone an exercise programme that involves at least 30minutes of about 65 - 75% intensity.

Just to clarify.

The OP has chosen to do HIIT and it seemed to me he was simply wondering whether or not his protocol actually reflected the generally accepted criteria that defines something as HIIT. My reply to him was more in that context...and not dealing with the the issue of whether he should - or should not - be doing HIIT in the first place.

Actually, if you've read some of my other posts, I've pointed out that HIIT isn't the ' be all and end all ' ( i.e it is mandatory ) when it comes to wanting to drop some fat via cardio. If people want to - and like - doing moderate intensity steady state cardio to help lose fat, then they should go for it. Ditto for HIIT. People certainly shouldn't feel they have to do HIIT if they want to lose fat via cardio. But if HIIT appeals to them......( assuming they are fit enough to pull it off ) ......then they should go for it.

I know about epoc no need anyway to jump on to it. But with this routine it burns a higher amount of fat by quite a bit during working out.

Agreed.

Since most HIIT work intervals are anywhere from 85% - 100% of MHR, you'd expect that glycogen is the primary energy source to fuel those intervals - not fat. That said, given that HIIT is primarily and anaerobic activity you'd expect exercising below HIIT intensity - i.e 65 - 75% intensity - to burn more fat during exercise ......relatively speaking.

For quite heavy people even 75% is real hard work to be doing at least 30 minutes.

Quite right.

Then again, I suppose, if sprinting at a 3 mph pace represents 75% intensity for a heavy person and sprinting at a 7 mph pace is 75% intensity for a leaner person, it's the same thing ........ it's relative, they both represent ' real hard work ' for both of them.

Ditto for HIIT. Going ' as hard as you can ...for as long as you can ' during a HIIT work interval depends on the individual and how fit they are in the first place.

So all in all working at 70% max is very appealing for weight loss. Your actually losing more fat than HIIT as fat is used increasingly during this intensity. Maybe when you have done this for a while whilset getting fitter you could incorporate HIIT by itself or together.

Again, I agree. You would expect that.

By " working at 70% max ' , you're engaging in an aerobic exercise for the most part ...so, as a result, you're burning mostly fat as fuel during aerobic exercise.

By doing HIIT with 85% - 100% of MHR work intervals and periods of recovery spanning some very high MHR you'd expect to be burning more sugars than fat during exercise.

 

[tblackwynd]

Reporting in with the changes that I've made to my HIIT sessions as of today.

I grabbed a stopwatch to help nail down the specifics of my workout and my heart rate, then hit the track.

I changed up my routine as such that I would do a bit more than just walk between most of the HIIT intervals. That seemed to help keep me at a bit higher heart rate.

During HIIT, I found that I was clocking a 25-30 second maximum exertion interval. I was also able to keep up maximum exertion that roughly 5-10 seconds longer than my earlier HIIT sessions.

Upon examining my heart rate, I found that my HR would be around 160-170ish between intervals. After maximum exertion, my heart rate maxed out at 212 after my second interval, but after that, would generally be high 170s to 180s. Being 24 years old, my maximum HR is 196.

My resting heart rate seems to be quite low, incidentally. As I sit here typing this message, my resting rate is 68beats/minute.

That's about where all of my vitals are, currently, I hope this helps in assessing my HIIT sessions!

One more question; I perform HIIT on Mondays and Wednesdays, however, about right after HIIT and cooldown, I have to run off to sit in a classrom for four hours. Will this affect my metabolic "burn" in a negative way?

Thanks,

-Ty

 

[sig]

Upon examining my heart rate, I found that my HR would be around 160-170ish between intervals. After maximum exertion, my heart rate maxed out at 212 after my second interval, but after that, would generally be high 170s to 180s. Being 24 years old, my maximum HR is 196.

Just wanted to point out that: If you're seeing an HR of 212 after max exertion, then your max HR is not 196. It's 212 (or around that). That scale to estimate your HR based on your age is just that - an estimate. People can vary by a good 10% in either direction.

Otherwise, it does sound like you're getting a handle on how to use HIIT...

 

[Wrangell]

During HIIT, I found that I was clocking a 25-30 second maximum exertion interval. I was also able to keep up maximum exertion that roughly 5-10 seconds longer than my earlier HIIT sessions.

Now that you can time your work intervals, why not simply pre-set them at 45 seconds or 1 minute ?

In my view, you want to be ' hanging on for dear life ' during those last 5-10 seconds of your work interval. So, if the interval is pre-set at 60 seconds, at the 50 second mark you should be screaming to quit.

Upon examining my heart rate, I found that my HR would be around 160-170ish between intervals. After maximum exertion, my heart rate maxed out at 212 after my second interval, but after that, would generally be high 170s to 180s. Being 24 years old, my maximum HR is 196.

In certain respects, so long as you're going ' flat out ' during your work interval, there shouldn't be any need - and you shouldn't be able to - track your heart rate " After maximum exertion " just after your work interval. I've never been a believer in tracking max heart rates during ' flat out intervals- especially for young athletes.

You're young ( 24 ) - simply go ' flat out ' !

One more question; I perform HIIT on Mondays and Wednesdays, however, about right after HIIT and cooldown, I have to run off to sit in a classrom for four hours. Will this affect my metabolic "burn" in a negative way? Thanks,

No.