Weight-Loss amount of protein per day

Weight-Loss
Protein Intake (I searched)

I'm trying to tighten up on my protein intake, but honestly I'm a pretty big guy and the recommended intake of 1g per pound of body weight would have me taking in about 235g/day. The problem isn't getting the protein but my concern is that if I stick to that intake my macro-nutrient ratio would be skewed at about 40% protein. I guess my QUESTION is whether or not that macro-nutrient difference is better than not getting enough protein? I was thinking about a 40c/40p/20f ratio.

Just FYI I'm going for weight loss of about 50 pounds the healthy way and exercising about 3 times/week taking in about 2300 calories a day.

Also, I'm going from a low protein diet to a very high (in comparison) protein diet, should I expect anything different physically?

Thanks!
 
That type of protein intake will do you no harm and will benefit you in retaining muscle mass while you lose weight. If you are a beginning trainee, you might even slightly increase your muscle mass or at least maintain it.

There is no detrimental health issue with that amount of protein at your size. Have at er!

Michael
 
Ok, I know wikipedia isn't the most credible place to get information, but this worried me:

Liver dysfunction due to increased toxic residues

Listed as an issue of excess protein intake

I also saw that a reccomended daily intake of 56g and that made me weary of taking in 235g... is there a more accurate way I can gauge how much to consume?

Thanks!
 
somewhere on here -steve's mentioned that it should be about 1 gram per pound of lean body mass -which is not your body weight -though there are formulas and calcutors on the web,, they really aren't reliable -so you're sort of guessing at that point...
 
That's too bad... I guess I'll try to factor out my lean body mass? Yikes.

EDIT: It was actually easy to find:

Lean Body Mass Estimation:


Results:
According to your measurements - weight of 235 pounds and height of 6' 0", your lean body mass is estimated to be 162.54 . Since the ideal body fat percentage for men is 15%, your ideal lean body weight is 145.29 pounds.
 
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This is the second time this has come up in the past couple of days. I have asked before, and was ignored, so I'll try again in this thread (since it seems active). Does anyone have any research / anything solid beyond anecdotal evidence for 1g/lb of lean bodymass? I have lots of meathead friends that drink those damn whey protein shakes like it is their job, but I think they taste like horse snot. And while I have the money to buy the 10 chickens and two cows a day that this would seem to require, if one of the good folks on here could give me something real, I would throw extra sacrifice on the fires for you to my heathen gods.

I don't eat anywhere NEAR what i'm supposed to eat by that calculation (my estimation: 1/3 of that). I'm a pretty large-muscled fella, and it seems to me that I would be having some serious problems if I have a protein intake that was that insufficient.

If I WASN'T getting enough protein, what would my symptoms be? If I WAS getting the perfect amount (I.E. matched perfectly to whatever the limiting reagent in this equation is), how would I know it versus an imperfect amount?
 
Reevaluation of the protein requirement in young men with the
indicator amino acid oxidation technique.ABSTRACT
Background: The current estimated protein requirements are based
on the nitrogen balance method, which has many limitations. An
alternate approach is needed to permit a reevaluation of protein
requirements.
Objective: The objective was to determine protein requirements in
men by using the indicator amino acid oxidation technique.
Design: Eight healthy men randomly received graded protein intakes
(0.10, 0.30, 0.60, 0.90, 1.2, 1.5 and 1.8 g  kg1  d1) as a
crystalline amino acid mixture along with L-[1-13C]phenylalanine.
The mean protein requirement was determined by applying a biphase
linear regression crossover analysis on F13CO2 data, which identified
a breakpoint at the minimal rate of appearance of 13CO2 to
graded protein intakes.
Results: The mean and population-safe (recommended dietary
allowance; RDA) protein requirements were found to be 0.93 and
1.2 g  kg1  d1, respectively. These requirements are comparable
with those estimated by the application of a biphase linear regression
model to the data from nitrogen balance studies (0.91 and
1.0 g  kg1  d1, respectively). These requirements are 41% and
50% higher than the current recommendations for the estimated
average requirement (EAR) of 0.66 g  kg1  d1 and the RDA of
0.80 g  kg1  d1, as determined by applying a linear regression
model where it intersects the zero balance line.
Conclusion: The indicator amino acid oxidation technique defined
a protein requirement that is comparable with that estimated by the
application of a biphase linear regression model to nitrogen balance
data in the literature. Our data and the reanalysis of the preexisting
nitrogen balance data suggest that the current recommended protein
requirements are too low and require reassessment. Am J Clin
Nutr 2007;86:995–1002.


In the discussion:

The current EAR recommendation and RDA for protein are
0.66 and 0.80 g  kg1  d1, respectively. We believe that these
recommendations are tentative because no long-term studies
have suggested that these values would maintain nitrogen balance
along with lean body mass, muscle mass, serum protein
concentrations, immunity, functional capacity etc. Previously, a
series of long-term balance studies (67– 69) showed that intake of
the proposed safe allowance of 0.57 g (70) egg protein resulted in
negative nitrogen balance, loss of lean body mass, and deteriorating
serum protein and transferase values unless additional
energy or nonessential nitrogen was supplied.

Again, you don't need it, but it certainly doesn't hurt. This is particularly true if you workout.

Michael
 
yeah, man. You copy/pasted that before. Is there a link to that study or the math behind it? Like I said in the other discussion, the math seems really screwy in that post. Why would they change their regression model, and say that based on the old data their regression model is better too?

Regression models are an old concept. You'd think that in something as important as this that different fits would have been tried, and if a different one was more appropriate based on their data, they would have changed their findings...
 
I'm going to make a website soon just so I can host the research studies I have. The reason why I quote the study is because it is quality...if you read it you'll probably agree.

Let me put it up in the next day or two and I'll link you to it.

As for now: here is a little write up from pretty much the most anti-protein exercise physiology book I've ever read: (paraphrased heavily)

"High protein diets"

The normal recommended dietary allowance of .8 g/kg of body weight translates to 60 g of protein for a 170 lb guy. However since exercise increases protein catabolism (destruction) many athletes have turned to high protein diets. The increased protein breakdown during intense exercise is more a reflection of gluconeogenesis for the purpose of maintaining blood sugar levels (aka turning it into sugar for the body) instead of protein catabolism for providing energy to support muscular contraction. Table 12.4 is a suggested protein intake for male athletes:

Sedentary: .8 g /kg
Endurance: 1.4g/kg
Strength: 1.8g/kg

Typically this is a protein intake brought about by the average American diet. However an individual on a calorie reduced eating plan who is active in strength/endurance activities may find it helpful to shift a proportion of their calories to protein to maintain athletic competency.

_________________________________________
The only things I added were in brackets. Eitherway, this would mean 200 g of protein for a 250 lb guy. If you are on a 2200 calorie a day diet, 200 g of protein is 800 calories, or 36% of your total intake. It can approach 40% without worries.

Michael
 
The reason why I quote the study is because it is quality...if you read it you'll probably agree.
Click to expand...

I have read what you posted now over 6 times (both last time and this time), and have seen problems with their conclusion (arguing that "accepted" math is flawed because if it is wrong, your conclusion fits is piss poor science). I can bring up MS Paint and draw you some examples of what I'm talking about, if you want.



As far as the most recent post, all that copy/paste did was to rephrase part of what you already said, but with less math, and less proof. Again, I have HEARD from some people that since I'm in some serious training that I should be eating pretty much my own leg's worth of protein every day. Does anyone have anything SOLID and PUBLISHED? I've searched, and can't find anything, but then again, I'm not as practiced at it as others here are.
 
Pig, as I said to you before, the science is on the fence. Personally, I choose to err on the side of high than low.... high being roughly 1 gram per lb of my bodyweight. If you're carrying a lot of body fat, knock this intake down to 1 gram per lb of LBM.

That's based on empirical evidence over the years with my own training and nutrition as well as client's.

Not to mention, most of the top coaches in the world have concluded the same thing..... I hate to appeal to authority, but when science doesn't answer our questions, what else do we have to turn to besides empirical evidence?

Lyle McDonald is coming out with a book extremely soon that will answer this question using the available research.... I'm very excited to get my hands on this book. I know though that after delving through all the available research he sides with Tipton who he thought made the most compelling argument in his 2004 review paper which was "It's better for elite performers to err on the side of slightly too much protein than too little (1.2-1.5 g/lb for strength/power and 1 g/lb for enduros). Any benefits may be too small to detect in short term studies but are clearly relevant at that level. Unless other nutrient intake is shorted, there's no harm to consuming more and there may be small but relevant benefits."

Protein requirements are odd. There is research out there showing how exercise increases protein requirements, while there's also stuff out there that it has been shown to decrease protein requirements under certain circumstances, as consistent training improves protein utilization.

Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006 Oct;31(5):557-64. Links
Resistance training reduces whole-body protein turnover and improves net protein retention in untrained young males.

* Hartman JW,
* Moore DR,
* Phillips SM.

Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, 1280 Main Street West, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

It is thought that resistance exercise results in an increased need for dietary protein; however, data also exists to support the opposite conclusion. The purpose of this study was to determine the impact of resistance exercise training on protein metabolism in novices with the hypothesis that resistance training would reduce protein turnover and improve whole-body protein retention. Healthy males (n = 8, 22 +/- 1 y, BMI = 25.3 +/- 1.8 kg.m(-2)) participated in a progressive whole-body split routine resistance-training program 5d/week for 12 weeks. Before (PRE) and after (POST) the training, oral [15N]-glycine ingestion was used to assess nitrogen flux (Q), protein synthesis (PS), protein breakdown (PB), and net protein balance (NPB = PS-PB). Macronutrient intake was controlled over a 5d period PRE and POST, while estimates of protein turnover and urinary nitrogen balance (N(bal) = N(in) - urine N(out)) were conducted. Bench press and leg press increased 40% and 50%, respectively (p < 0.01). Fat- and bone-free mass (i.e., lean muscle mass) increased from PRE to POST (2.5 +/- 0.8 kg, p < 0.05). Significant PRE to POST decreases (p <0.05) occurred in Q (0.9 +/- 0.1 vs. 0.6 +/- 0.1 g N.kg(-1).d(-1)), PS (4.6 +/- 0.7 vs. 2.9 +/- 0.3 g.kg(-1).d(-1)), and PB (4.3 +/- 0.7 vs. 2.4 +/- 0.2 g.kg(-1).d(-1)). Significant training-induced increases in both NPB (PRE = 0.22 +/- 0.13 g.kg(-1).d(-1); POST = 0.54 +/- 0.08 g.kg(-1).d(-1)) and urinary nitrogen balance (PRE = 2.8 +/- 1.7 g N.d(-1); POST = 6.5 +/- 0.9 g N.d(-1)) were observed. A program of resistance training that induced significant muscle hypertrophy resulted in reductions of both whole-body PS and PB, but an improved NPB, which favoured the accretion of skeletal muscle protein. Urinary nitrogen balance increased after training. The reduction in PS and PB and a higher NPB in combination with an increased nitrogen balance after training suggest that dietary requirements for protein in novice resistance-trained athletes are not higher, but lower, after resistance training.
Click to expand...

My recommendation... toy around until you find the best results. But with all in mind, I believe the blanket recommendation of 1 gram per pound of LBM is best, which you can take for what it's worth.
 
the science is on the fence.
Click to expand...

This is really what I was looking for. In all the crap that I've been reading over the past few days, I have read a LOT about what people think that it should be, and their reasoning for it. Not a single one of the studdies delved into the differences between a "sufficient" amount of protein and an "optimum" amount of protein. I believe that I'm getting a "sufficient" amount of protein with what I'm eating now. I just want to know what benefit I'm going to get by eating enough chicken in one day to feed Uganda for a year. If I'm going to see noticeable results, then they can continue to fend for themselves, and I'm going to fowl my mouth like crazy. I just want to know the specifics.
 
As calories go up, protein requirements go down in general.

However, when dieting.... they certainly go up. Your body will always turn to an excess pool of aminos in the bloodstream before actual muscle, itself. Inadequate protein consumption during a diet can certainly lead to excess muscle loss.

That's also something to consider.

This, and you'd be hard pressed to find an elite level coach not promoting an intake of protein similar to the one I highlighted above.... even though science goes both ways.
 
I just bought a barrel of the horse-snot (vanilla whey protein), and stole a truckload of chicken intended for the canadian armed forces. We'll see how it goes...

Awesome gas incomming... At least my dog will still appreciate it / give me high fives
 
Too much protein?

Hey folks,
Have been seeing some articles lately and even tv programs regarding too much protein causing kidney problems and even kidney disease in some cases. Some of the people affected had prior kidney problems, but at least a 1/3 of them did not. It also did not say how many grams of protein these affected people were comsuming per week. I am presently comsuming approx. 200-225 grams/day, weighing 187 lbs, 5'9", attempting to hit 200 lbs. I am not presently taking any other supplements, other than the Whey protein. Any comments would be appreciated. Thnks.
 
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