You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
All body cardio and building muscle
- Thread starter Korbike
- Start date
No. Cardio work won't stress your muscles in the manner required to elicit muscle building. Resistance training (ie: with weights) is what is needed to cause the proper breakdown of your muscles to initiate that type of growth. You need to overload the strength of your muscles, not overload the energy system.
Plus, cardio work is catabolic, meaning that it's using your body's tissues for energy because the amount of energy that your body needs to maintain the workload isn't readily available elsewhere. That being said, cardio will make it more difficult to put on muscle mass.
Plus, cardio work is catabolic, meaning that it's using your body's tissues for energy because the amount of energy that your body needs to maintain the workload isn't readily available elsewhere. That being said, cardio will make it more difficult to put on muscle mass.
Thirdset's answer is sophomoric at best but really, it's just plain wrong.
Yes, cardio and endurance work absolutely builds muscle. However, it's probably not the type of muscle you want to build (I make that assumption because when people say "build muscle" they are generally referring to a specific type of muscle fiber). Cardio endurance activities will build your slow twitch muscle fibers while more anaerobic activities (like weight training) will build fast twitch fibers. You can look up fast vs slow twitch if you are interested in specifics.
Further, cardio work does not have to be catabolic at all. It depends on how it's used within one's specific training. It can be used in conjuction with weight training to burn fat, which will help to define and sculpt the body - it will certainly not be detrimental to building fast twitch muscle mass when used as an aid for that purpose.
Yes, cardio and endurance work absolutely builds muscle. However, it's probably not the type of muscle you want to build (I make that assumption because when people say "build muscle" they are generally referring to a specific type of muscle fiber). Cardio endurance activities will build your slow twitch muscle fibers while more anaerobic activities (like weight training) will build fast twitch fibers. You can look up fast vs slow twitch if you are interested in specifics.
Further, cardio work does not have to be catabolic at all. It depends on how it's used within one's specific training. It can be used in conjuction with weight training to burn fat, which will help to define and sculpt the body - it will certainly not be detrimental to building fast twitch muscle mass when used as an aid for that purpose.
Slow twitch muscles don't hypertrophy well. Endurance training will target them, yes, but the training adaptation is to increase mitochondria and fat-burning abilities. Plus, endurance training can result in the transition of Type IIx fibers (fast twitch) into Type IIa fibers (fast twitch that take on the characteristics of slow twitch.)
For those reasons, yes, endurance training does interfere with strength and hypertrophy training. You can adjust your routine and diet so that the interference effect is minimized, but muscle building will still be made more difficult. Interestingly, however, strength training does not have the same type of interference effect on endurance training, and is actually beneficial for correcting muscle imbalances and improving explosive power.
Bottom line, though, just doing cardio work alone will still not result in significant muscle building. If it's cardio combined with resistance training, like a HIIT routine, then that will put the right type of stress and breakdown on your fast twitch muscles, but I interpreted the question as using just traditional cardio training.
For those reasons, yes, endurance training does interfere with strength and hypertrophy training. You can adjust your routine and diet so that the interference effect is minimized, but muscle building will still be made more difficult. Interestingly, however, strength training does not have the same type of interference effect on endurance training, and is actually beneficial for correcting muscle imbalances and improving explosive power.
Bottom line, though, just doing cardio work alone will still not result in significant muscle building. If it's cardio combined with resistance training, like a HIIT routine, then that will put the right type of stress and breakdown on your fast twitch muscles, but I interpreted the question as using just traditional cardio training.
Last edited:
Thank you both for your replies. I looked up fast and slow twitch. Just a guess, I'm working slow twitch mostly with my legs, with a little more resistance in my arms, because of the way the bike works.
My workouts are about 30-35 minutes, 4-5 times a week. Because I am working out my arms and legs at the same time, I get a pretty good workout. Is it best to break up the 5 days a week into 3 on 1 off, 2 on and 1 off? Or does it matter if I do 5 in a row with 2 days off. I know that cardio is a little different than working muscle groups. Thanks again for your thoughts.
My workouts are about 30-35 minutes, 4-5 times a week. Because I am working out my arms and legs at the same time, I get a pretty good workout. Is it best to break up the 5 days a week into 3 on 1 off, 2 on and 1 off? Or does it matter if I do 5 in a row with 2 days off. I know that cardio is a little different than working muscle groups. Thanks again for your thoughts.
I called Jrahien "ThirdSet" in my first post...mistake #1. I then implied that he/she may not know tons...mistake #2, seems he/she is pretty familiar with the subject.
I'm not sure that I would categorize 30-35 minutes as endurance, cardio yes but not really endurance. Some semantics and personal opinion I guess.
The answer to the question of breaking up the workouts is a personal one. Are you able to recover well enough to put in a good workout the next day? Do you vary the workout in terms of intensity or is it the same routine and output each time? If you aren’t feeling fatigued and feel fresh and happy when getting set to workout, then it is fine to go for 5 days.
I was a competitive weight lifter (not bodybuilder) in college years ago but my primary sport now is cycling. I still do weight training a couple of times a week and some other sports (running & swimming) for cross training. But I ride almost every day. My rides hardly ever are less than an hr. But, and this is a huge but…they vary tremendously. I would say that many rides are easy ones, some are long endurance type rides, others are slow recovery rides, others are crazy hill repeats (very hard workout), and others involve varying levels of intervals. It all depends on what my goal is and what I am training for.
In general, if your nutrition and hydration is well honed, a daily 35 min one speed workout is fine but likely is not the most effective method. It’s going to depend on what goals you have. But there is no magic really. If you want to get stronger in an activity then do it longer or at a higher intensity or with varying degree’s of intervals (after base building) should be on the radar. And the more you do, the more rest you need and the more you need to really focus on nutrition and hydration so you can get the most from a workout. If you begin to ramp up and vary the efforts, you’ll need to take rest days, which can be done actively (recovery ride) or passively.
I'm not sure that I would categorize 30-35 minutes as endurance, cardio yes but not really endurance. Some semantics and personal opinion I guess.
The answer to the question of breaking up the workouts is a personal one. Are you able to recover well enough to put in a good workout the next day? Do you vary the workout in terms of intensity or is it the same routine and output each time? If you aren’t feeling fatigued and feel fresh and happy when getting set to workout, then it is fine to go for 5 days.
I was a competitive weight lifter (not bodybuilder) in college years ago but my primary sport now is cycling. I still do weight training a couple of times a week and some other sports (running & swimming) for cross training. But I ride almost every day. My rides hardly ever are less than an hr. But, and this is a huge but…they vary tremendously. I would say that many rides are easy ones, some are long endurance type rides, others are slow recovery rides, others are crazy hill repeats (very hard workout), and others involve varying levels of intervals. It all depends on what my goal is and what I am training for.
In general, if your nutrition and hydration is well honed, a daily 35 min one speed workout is fine but likely is not the most effective method. It’s going to depend on what goals you have. But there is no magic really. If you want to get stronger in an activity then do it longer or at a higher intensity or with varying degree’s of intervals (after base building) should be on the radar. And the more you do, the more rest you need and the more you need to really focus on nutrition and hydration so you can get the most from a workout. If you begin to ramp up and vary the efforts, you’ll need to take rest days, which can be done actively (recovery ride) or passively.
Da Troof,
Thanks for a great explanation. 30 minutes is not much endurance cycling I know, however when you add your arms in the mix, you tire much quicker. The prototype I use, is a bicycle for your legs and has levers like an elliptical for your arms. I vary the workout and stand up for 1 minute every 5. I know it sounds weak, but balancing with your arms and legs moving for a minute, is a challenge at least for me.
It does seem that my legs recover faster than my arms, and after reading your post, I think I will break up my routine and see if I get any improvement. I would like to extend the workout to 45 minutes and a little down time may be what's missing. Thanks again, very helpful.
Thanks for a great explanation. 30 minutes is not much endurance cycling I know, however when you add your arms in the mix, you tire much quicker. The prototype I use, is a bicycle for your legs and has levers like an elliptical for your arms. I vary the workout and stand up for 1 minute every 5. I know it sounds weak, but balancing with your arms and legs moving for a minute, is a challenge at least for me.
It does seem that my legs recover faster than my arms, and after reading your post, I think I will break up my routine and see if I get any improvement. I would like to extend the workout to 45 minutes and a little down time may be what's missing. Thanks again, very helpful.
Da Troof,
Thanks for a great explanation. 30 minutes is not much endurance cycling I know, however when you add your arms in the mix, you tire much quicker. The prototype I use, is a bicycle for your legs and has levers like an elliptical for your arms. I vary the workout and stand up for 1 minute every 5. I know it sounds weak, but balancing with your arms and legs moving for a minute, is a challenge at least for me.
It does seem that my legs recover faster than my arms, and after reading your post, I think I will break up my routine and see if I get any improvement. I would like to extend the workout to 45 minutes and a little down time may be what's missing. Thanks again, very helpful.
If I implied that your workout is a weak one then I apologize for that tone. Didn't mean to discourage or disparage your workout. I have nothing but respect for people who are out there bettering themselves at whatever levels and in whatever ways they see fit so a tip of my chapeau to you good sir/madam.
Not really knowing much about you physically or your specific short/long term goals, or your current level of fitness, etc. I'll say this - you don't get stronger when you are exercising, you get stronger when you are resting. I’m no pro but my speed and power on the bike is strong. Many of my rides however are not hammerfests. I go slow to get fast. And I train for my goal (specific race I am aiming to do well) so I develop a training plan and stick to it…and it works. For example I’ve been much faster on flat terrain than I am now, which is fine with me because I’ve been training for power in the hills (I have a very hilly road race that I am aiming for). So I go out and sear my lungs and kill my legs in the hills maybe a coupe times a week. Most other rides and easy or moderate paced rides. I won’t go over the top unless I am fully recovered and feeling good. If you do, you aren’t getting anywhere as much out of your workouts. If you are pounding for those 35 min day after day, I would suggest that you vary things up a lot more. Slow down, a lot. That way, you’ll be able to go longer. Going slow is the hard part but you must be strong enough to go slow and don’t be tempted to pound away if you are feeling good – stick to your planned routine for that day. Adding a couple workouts that are slow but long will get you stronger and get your muscles prepared and optimized for more intense efforts. And built steady and sensibly, don’t go out next week and double the length of your workouts. I walk away from most rides feeling good rather than being exhausted for the rest of the day. And don’t neglect all the other things that are important - rest and nutrition (which is its own huge subject).
Is it possible to build muscle doing only all body cardio? If so, what is a good workout schedule, thanks.
You really have started a good old fight here. Well done!
Cardio and muscle building are generally seen as opposite ends of the scale, they aren't, there are however a number of major buts.
All types of muscle can gain size, however fast twitch do this more readily and generally look prettier when they do so. The below explains the difference in how they work in a simple but not totally accurate way, it is for illustration only.
One muscle cell lifts 1 kilo before tiring, fast twitch (white) does this in one movement tires instantly and has to recover before doing it again, slow twitch (red) does this 100g at a time so lifts 10 times before tiring and can recover quicker, there are pink fibres, which can be converted to work either way, but not both at the same time.
Misconception number 1, cardio means steady plodding that only uses slow twitch muscles. If this is what you love and all you do, most of the muscles recruited will be slow twitch and the fast twitch will not be stimulated enough to grow much. However even when I was training for marathons I did interval training which does recruit the fast twitch fibres and would have made them grow a bit, if it wasn't for the massive mileage I did along with this I may even have had muscles you could see through clothing, as it was I had to be virtually nude before the wiry mess was clear to see.
Misconception number 2, cardio vascular is very low intensity work and means never being out of breath. Again it can be if you want but all it really means is that you pulse rate remains elevated throughout your workout and you are constantly moving to keep it so. Classic weight training is not cardio because it involves long rests where the pulse rate comes back down to closer to resting levels. However circuits with varying intensity exercises or HIIT will build muscle during the intense parts without losing cardio benefit.
The cold hard truth. If you want fast gains, get to a gym and move heavy iron in sets of 6 to 10 with rests, there is no better way. If you aren't in a hurry and love your cardio, make sure it has high and low intensity sections and you will gain mass, albeit slower than many will accept.
First and foremost enjoy what you do, not doing so will be the first step to quitting then you get nothing. After that just tailor it to what you want.
Virtually everyone on this forum trains and loves it, we really are that sad, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience here, and we often disagree because we all have our areas of expertise and will still hold onto ideas that are incorrect, myself included. If you find a lot of people saying the same thing either it's right or you can be wrong in good company.
Da Troof, CrazyOldMan,
Thank you both for your posts. Good information, sounds like good common sense.
Da Troof, No discouragement or disparagement taken. My statement just sounded weak, but I know balancing with resistance is a challenge. You have given me lots to think about and varying the work out and slowing down, makes a lot of sense.
Train for your goals. I guess my goal is to come up with the best cardio workout, (and maybe even a little muscle building) I can do in a short amount of time, say 30 - 40 min. The bike I invented, exercises you arms and legs. I have been riding it for about a year. The cardio workout is great, but while I'm at it, would be nice to add some more muscle.
Knowing a little more about fast and slow twitch, I'll mix it up a little. High and low intensity during the workout sounds like the right way to go about this.
Thank you both again for your thoughts. David
Thank you both for your posts. Good information, sounds like good common sense.
Da Troof, No discouragement or disparagement taken. My statement just sounded weak, but I know balancing with resistance is a challenge. You have given me lots to think about and varying the work out and slowing down, makes a lot of sense.
Train for your goals. I guess my goal is to come up with the best cardio workout, (and maybe even a little muscle building) I can do in a short amount of time, say 30 - 40 min. The bike I invented, exercises you arms and legs. I have been riding it for about a year. The cardio workout is great, but while I'm at it, would be nice to add some more muscle.
Knowing a little more about fast and slow twitch, I'll mix it up a little. High and low intensity during the workout sounds like the right way to go about this.
Thank you both again for your thoughts. David
Working indoors svcks. During the cold months I use a trainer to stay in shape but it is oh so boring – even with the numerous videos I have. I supplement that by doing some running (at least gets me outside). I still ride some outdoors during the cold months but they are all slow base building type stuff. When the season is on, I can ride for hrs at endurance pace outside (if I can get the time to do it).
When talking about cycling, to build cardio I would concentrate on intervals. But there are a large number of interval training plans out there. IMO, the best one’s for shorter workouts like yours involve those specific to training for criterium races – short bursts of power with an emphasis on fast recovery so you can do it again. But having a good base is important, otherwise the gains will be short term. You can consider getting a copy of Joe Friels Training Bible. Or browse his website for some info. There are plenty of different crit training plans out there so you can choose one that’s best for you. Again, I recommend that because I believe those crit training plans are best at building cycling fitness fast.
And I assume you are tracking your fitness somehow…power meter, resting HR, Lactate Threshold levels, body fat percentage, etc.
When talking about cycling, to build cardio I would concentrate on intervals. But there are a large number of interval training plans out there. IMO, the best one’s for shorter workouts like yours involve those specific to training for criterium races – short bursts of power with an emphasis on fast recovery so you can do it again. But having a good base is important, otherwise the gains will be short term. You can consider getting a copy of Joe Friels Training Bible. Or browse his website for some info. There are plenty of different crit training plans out there so you can choose one that’s best for you. Again, I recommend that because I believe those crit training plans are best at building cycling fitness fast.
And I assume you are tracking your fitness somehow…power meter, resting HR, Lactate Threshold levels, body fat percentage, etc.
One of my colleagues talked about a new running app he has started using that would be good fun and help with varying intensity.
Most running apps log what you do and some even allow you to race yourself, this one added an extra level. The app put you in the midst of a zombie invasion, and uses maps and your headphones to get you running at varying pace on a route you will not know until you are out.
Apparently you can set a time or distance to run and if to finish at the start point. The app then guides you around and has you either jogging to recover or running for your life from zombies.
I haven't tried it but it sounds like a laugh.
Most running apps log what you do and some even allow you to race yourself, this one added an extra level. The app put you in the midst of a zombie invasion, and uses maps and your headphones to get you running at varying pace on a route you will not know until you are out.
Apparently you can set a time or distance to run and if to finish at the start point. The app then guides you around and has you either jogging to recover or running for your life from zombies.
I haven't tried it but it sounds like a laugh.
Working indoors svcks. During the cold months I use a trainer to stay in shape but it is oh so boring – even with the numerous videos I have. I supplement that by doing some running (at least gets me outside). I still ride some outdoors during the cold months but they are all slow base building type stuff. When the season is on, I can ride for hrs at endurance pace outside (if I can get the time to do it).
When talking about cycling, to build cardio I would concentrate on intervals. But there are a large number of interval training plans out there. IMO, the best one’s for shorter workouts like yours involve those specific to training for criterium races – short bursts of power with an emphasis on fast recovery so you can do it again. But having a good base is important, otherwise the gains will be short term. You can consider getting a copy of Joe Friels Training Bible. Or browse his website for some info. There are plenty of different crit training plans out there so you can choose one that’s best for you. Again, I recommend that because I believe those crit training plans are best at building cycling fitness fast.
And I assume you are tracking your fitness somehow…power meter, resting HR, Lactate Threshold levels, body fat percentage, etc.
Da Troof,
You have given me much to think about, again. I'm with you on the indoor riding, however its better than not riding, also works pretty well if your pressed for time.
No questions about it, I need to get a better handle on training. I bought a couple of Joe Friels paper backs. Cycling past 50, and using the Power Meter Handbook. They look like a good read. I'll let you know when I get the results. Thanks again. David
Cardio work really won't stress your muscles in the manner that is actually required to elicit muscle building. However for general fitness it is a safe bet.I used to cross fit and weight training for muscle building but can't really take the time out these days. But whenever I do I like to track my progress through motivade.com
Cardio work really won't stress your muscles in the manner that is actually required to elicit muscle building. However for general fitness it is a safe bet.I used to cross fit and weight training for muscle building but can't really take the time out these days. But whenever I do I like to track my progress through motivade.com
Sandra,
Are you saying that cycling does not build leg muscle, or that it's just a slower build rate?